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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funkedup on November 27, 2002, 11:45:15 AM

Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: funkedup on November 27, 2002, 11:45:15 AM
I just wanted to get the ball rolling.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: nuchpatrick on November 27, 2002, 11:49:09 AM
Dang.. that was real short Funk..heheh :D
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: bigUC on November 27, 2002, 12:00:23 PM
The Stuka can dive vertically.


Ok, Spitler Youth, question it... :D
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Nilsen on November 27, 2002, 12:19:08 PM
WOHOO  !!

gonna be fun to drop eggs in it, and to kill it :D
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: eskimo2 on November 27, 2002, 12:23:35 PM
I think the Stuka came with its own whine! (siren)  :)

eskimo
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Sachs on November 27, 2002, 12:48:31 PM
Might as well add another plane for the dust collection.  It will right in with the SBD and D3a.  Yea!!!!!  Sorry I don't seem all that hapy about the addition of another early war ride that will see limited action.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: whgates3 on November 27, 2002, 12:51:00 PM
...wasn't there a major OL (original luftwaffe) ace that shot down a bunch of planes from his stuka & won knight's cross w/ diamonds, swords, oak leaves & goering's tounge up yer ass...what was that dude's name?
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: SunKing on November 27, 2002, 12:58:35 PM
* SunKing slaps Sachs around a bit with a large trout
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Imp on November 27, 2002, 03:43:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by whgates3
...wasn't there a major OL (original luftwaffe) ace that shot down a bunch of planes from his stuka & won knight's cross w/ diamonds, swords, oak leaves & goering's tounge up yer ass...what was that dude's name?


Hans Ulrich Rudel or something like that :D
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Pei on November 27, 2002, 04:01:16 PM
Rudel was also credited with over 500 armoured vehicles and flew over 2500 combat operations (which is probably 1000 more than anybody else has ever managed).
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Sachs on November 27, 2002, 04:02:54 PM
Nope some other LW pilots logged 2000+ sorties.  I can dig through my books and find their names.  As far as th IRC fish slap LOL.  Old school.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: whgates3 on November 27, 2002, 04:08:50 PM
Many thanks.

heres an obituary
"Hans Ulrich Rudel, 66,  the  Stuka  pilot   who   was
Nazi   Germany's   most-decorated   soldier.
     In    2,530   combat   missions flying dive-bombers,
mainly on the Russian front, Rudel  was credited with
destroying 519 tanks, 150 gun emplacements and 800
combat vehicles of various types.
     According  to  Luftwaffe records, he also damaged
or  destroyed   three  large  warships and  70  smaller
craft.  For  this  he was awarded the "Golden Oakleaf
with Sword and Diamonds to the Knight's cross of the
Iron Cross."   He was   the   only German    soldier to
receive that award in World War II.
     Rudel   was shot down  several times, but  escaped
serious injury until   April 1945,   when he lost a leg in
combat. He was captured by Allied forces at the end of
the war, and released from a POW camp in April 1946.
    He  was  one  of   the few   German  war  heros  who
remained  in  the  limelight  after  the  war.   He  never
denounced  Nazi ideology  and embarrassed the West
German   government  several   times   with   extreme
right-wing activities.
    Died in Rosenheim, West Germany"

9 confirmed air-to-air kills for the stuke ace
"Stuka Pilot" by Hans Ulrich Rudel is out there...
here
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/shesta/shesta.htm
is an interesting story about him
here is his picture
(http://www.achtungpanzer.bos.ru/images/rudelge.jpg)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: ramzey on November 27, 2002, 04:16:10 PM
heh , anyway stuka is undermodeled;):D :D :D


ramzey
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Wotan on November 27, 2002, 04:34:38 PM
whgates he didnt do it in a d3........
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Staga on November 27, 2002, 05:52:51 PM
mmkay, Now LW has Ju88A as an early war bomber, Ju87D as a mid-war bomber and in two years maybe some late-war bomber like He177 or Do217.
Looks like Allies got a new target for events, congratulations.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Fancy on November 27, 2002, 05:53:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sachs
Might as well add another plane for the dust collection.  It will right in with the SBD and D3a.  Yea!!!!!  Sorry I don't seem all that hapy about the addition of another early war ride that will see limited action.


Oh, then maybe HTC should introduce a new sub-sub variant of the LA7?  :rolleyes:   Thanks for the input.

I think the Stuka fills a nice niche as GV attack plane extrordinaire.  Considering the IL2 is meat on the table this might be a nice little plane to up real quick when defending a base agains the Flakpansie hordes.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Wotan on November 27, 2002, 06:08:49 PM
The Ju 87D-3 had a 1400 hp Jumo 211 J 12 Cylinder liquid-cooled inverted vee and carried 1600kg of ord of Various loads up to a maximum 3,968 lbs. This version is haevier then the d1 and less manuverable. The d3 had no dive Siren.

Quote
The Ju 87D-3 introduced even more additional armour for the crew and vital parts of the aircraft reflecting the Ju 87s increasing use as a Schlachtflugzeug (close-support aircraft). From the D-4 model onwards the 7.92 mm window guns were replaced by the 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon. The Ju 87D-4 was a torpedo-bomber version capable of carrying a single torpedo with only a few example built. The Ju 87D-5 model had a longer wing span, with pointed wing tip extensions for use as a dedicated close-support version with jettisonable landing gear and no dive brakes. An interesting development was the Ju 87D-7, a night ground-attack model converted from Ju 87D-3s and Ju 87D-5s with a 1,500 hp (1119 kW) Jumo 211P engine with exhaust pipes extending back across the wing. The Ju 87D-8 was a day version of Ju 87D-7 without night-flying equipment and flame-dampers. The wing mounted machine-guns replaced by 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and dive brakes were omitted. The Ju 87D-8 was the last aircraft type in production when in September 1944, all aircraft production other than fighters, was terminated.



About the D5

Quote
The Ju 87 D-3 had been found too slow and not maneuvrable enough by the crews. Learning from that, this new version (d5) of the Stuka had lengthened wings and more armement. The dive brakes were abandonned in the course of this series: the plane was almost never used as a dive bomber any more and only as ground support plane.



The d3 became the g1 witrh added 2 37mm Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 3,7 (Flak 18 or Flak 36) anti-tank cannon and the deletion of the 7mm and dive breaks.

The D5 became the G2

Quote
Ju 87G (G-1/G-2) - The Ju 87G was the final version of the Stuka. It abandoned the dive attack in favour of an armament of two 37mm Rheinmetall-Borsig BK 3,7 (Flak 18 or Flak 36) anti-tank cannon weighing over 800 lbs (363 kg). These weapons fired special armour-piercing ammunition, with tungsten cores, at a muzzle velocity of 2,790 ft (850 m) per second. They were installed in gun pods fitted outboard of the landing gear legs. The ammunition was in six-round clips. The first operational trials were made in March 1943. The normal 7.92 mm or 20 mm wing guns were deleted. Dive bombing was not possible with the additional weight of the guns, so the dive brakes were also deleted. The Ju 87G could still drop bombs, but not in a dive. Initially, the Ju 87G was seen as quite dangerous to its crews. The additional weight and drag of the wing guns adversely affected performance and handling, and low-level attacks in the face of the Russian AAA and fighters seemed suicidal. But true as that was, it remained that the Ju 87G was extremely effective. The 37 mm gun was in 1943 considered obsolete as an anti-tank gun on the ground, but from the air it was still effective, because the Ju 87G could attack tanks from the rear or from above, were their armour was much thinner. Not that the Germans refrained from trying out bigger cannon on anti-tank aircraft, but the Ju 87 could not possibly carry these, and larger aircraft such as the Ju 88 were not agile enough to operate successfully against tanks. There were two versions, the G-1 and the G-2, with short and long wing spans, respectively with the G-2 based on the long-wing D-5 model. Production of the Ju 87 was halted definitively in October 1944. The greatest exponent of the Ju 87G-1 was Hans-Ulrich Rudel who was personally credited with the destruction of 519 Russian armoured vehicles. He flew 2,530 combat missions and continued to lead Stuka formations in daylight long after the other Stukagruppen had replaced their vunerable aircraft with the Focke-Wulf Fw 190.


We can get multiple uses from the d3 due to its gun load out. It also allows for the G1. Just add the 37mm and delete the 7mm wing guns. HT we also need to adjust the hard points for the limited bomb load of the g.

The D3 was the last "dive bomb" version of the Stuka. The d3 provides ht with the ability to get 2 fer 1.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Fancy on November 27, 2002, 06:14:18 PM
Can someone explain to me what the hell this "siren" thing is all about?  What was it and why was it used?
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Staga on November 27, 2002, 06:16:11 PM
Yeah, Ju87D-3 with 2x7,9mm forward shooting MG will do wonders to GVs. Those works nicely against planes too.
Also tail-gunners MG81z twin-barrel 7,9mm is pretty useless.
Let's hope it has at least 3x500kg bomb load.

Edit: Ju87 could also carry two underwing "Waffenbehälter" pods with 3x 7,9mm or 2x20mm MG/FF per pod.
Wonder if we'll see those modelled?
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Hawklore on November 27, 2002, 06:20:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fancy
Can someone explain to me what the hell this "siren" thing is all about?  What was it and why was it used?


Ok,

The siren was used to scare,Allied Civilians, and Military Persons.

It was called the Jericho Trumpet.

German Troops loved the sound of it roaring..

It was caused by loweing the dive flaps and winding a prop thats on the gears (Which I noticed isnt on are stuka so no siren :()

Thats all i can realy tell you but its realy loud and scared allied troops...


My baby stuka.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: funkedup on November 27, 2002, 06:27:44 PM
I knew you guys would come through!
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: brady on November 27, 2002, 06:51:45 PM
I am happy to see the Stuka, and Imo, the models chosen were good choices, I was concerned that if we got the stuka it would be the D-5 with the added powere and 20mm cannons and would their fore of been very out of place in early war CT and event's set up's, this is a great choice imo. TY Pyro ans Supperfly she is very Beautiful.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Wotan on November 27, 2002, 06:52:52 PM
Funked do you want to punt up the posts following the spit 14s release? Same whines there as well...............
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: funkedup on November 27, 2002, 06:55:53 PM
Pre-whining only please!
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Pei on November 27, 2002, 07:14:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Pre-whining only please!


I agree with Funked, there's plenty of time for whining once 1.11 is out: lets not waste our precious pre-whine time.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: funkedup on November 27, 2002, 07:25:15 PM
I will do a Spit pre-whine:

LF Mk. XVI does not have ZF-U tail code!

(http://www.raf303.org/308/pilots/spitv_zfu.jpg)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: hyena426 on November 27, 2002, 08:17:36 PM
the dive siren was design to help slow the stuka in a dive so it can dive bomb better,, and to scare people too:),,,the desiner of the stuka was a little crazy like most inventors,,and said he sold his soul to the devil to design that plane,,,atleast that is what i heard about him,,he invented alot of the gull wings,,lots of good idea's,,but he said he got them all from hell,,lol
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Staga on November 27, 2002, 10:03:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hyena426
the dive siren was design to help slow the stuka in a dive so it can dive bomb better,, and to scare people too:),,,the desiner of the stuka was a little crazy like most inventors,,and said he sold his soul to the devil to design that plane,,,atleast that is what i heard about him,,he invented alot of the gull wings,,lots of good idea's,,but he said he got them all from hell,,lol


pass the bong, dude.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: whgates3 on November 28, 2002, 01:18:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
whgates he didnt do it in a d3........


just got back from looking at his book@book store: he did fly Dora model of Ju87, as far as i could tell from flipping through the book quickly i only saw Ju87D1
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Dowding (Work) on November 28, 2002, 01:47:48 AM
Funked - that is a classic quote by MrFish.

Stop your blubbering, for pity's sake. It's entirely possible that HTC will release 1,2 or 3 Stukas this next version. My bet is the D3, D5 and G1.

You wanna know why?

I'll tell you - check the OBs for the Niemen scenario. It has the D5 and the G1 in there, with NO substitutions.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Wotan on November 28, 2002, 02:52:11 AM
Rudel killed most of his tanks in the g model. He did fly a d model thats he sunk the Soviet battleship and cruiser with.

His air 2 air kills came in the F8 and d9. He had a few "stuka" kills mostly from manuvering.

The d3 was heavier and farless manuverable then the d1.

In Feb 43
Quote
Rudel was then posted to the new special "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" unit formed at Briansk to test newly developed tank-busting version of Ju-87 D-3.Modified Stuka armed with two Rheinmetall-Borsig 37mm (BK) Flak 18 guns (each mounted in special canopy under each wing with 6 rounds of ammunition) was developed at the Luftwaffe's experimental station at Rechlin (near Neustrelitz, Germany). Prototypes were used at first against Soviet landing crafts in the Black Sea and in the space of three weeks, Rudel destroyed 70 such boats.In March of 1943, during a tank battle around Belgorod, Rudel knocked out his first tank with his new tank-busting Stuka - "... my rear gunner who said that the tank exploded like a bomb and he had seen bits of it crashing down behind us." (Hans-Ulrich Rudel). Later on, more Ju-87 D-3s were converted to tank-busters and were designated as Ju-87 G-1 (often nicknamed Panzerknacker - Tank Buster or Kanonenvogel - Cannon Bird) and started arriving on the Eastern Front in October of 1943.



The d3 version was a modified d1 with heavier armor as the roll of the stuka changed. They were being tasked with attacking armor. The stuka was never a "Schlachtflugzeug" until the d3 d5 g1 g5 models. I dont think Rudel ever flew a d5.

Hohun explained a while back what the original roll of the stuka was in case you are unsure. I didnt feel like searching for he thread or re-typing it here. I will say originally the Stuka was a battlefield interdiction aircraft not a close support aircraft. It was pressed into service on the east front because the lw had no choice.
 
Rudel however was a nut. He took many chances that should of got him killed. It was luck he survived the war. Most of his tank kills came after he switched to the g model.

Rudel flew 400 sorties in a fw190 and some credit him with 11 a2a kills. But the number will never be known. Some of his tank kills were scored for his unit as he was flying against orders.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: hyena426 on November 28, 2002, 04:44:18 AM
Quote
pass the bong, dude.
 if you dont trust me,,,go look it up for your self,,because thats the truth,,the guy was really out there,,,maybe he wasnt,,he mite have sold his soul,,,i guess he really beleved so,,,it was even on the history channel:)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: whgates3 on November 29, 2002, 01:04:54 AM
OK, OK, but as he said: pass the the bong
(http://mitglied.lycos.de/gummiruetzel/towelie.jpg)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: illo on November 30, 2002, 05:09:04 AM
Quote
...it was even on the history channel


Don't believe everything they say at history channel.

Their historical accuracy is sometimes...umm....well, not quite historically accurate.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: fffreeze220 on December 01, 2002, 11:14:32 AM
No Siren  :( :( :(
Thats the worst part :(
Title: Stuka Redux
Post by: Solomo on December 01, 2002, 01:24:35 PM
The Stuka's been out a long time in Warbirds....noone ever used it because it's too slow. Good for historical scenarios, that's about it.
Cheers,
Solo
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on December 01, 2002, 05:43:04 PM
Ill keep flying the il2 for CAS
:)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: funkedup on December 01, 2002, 05:49:36 PM
I hope they do a G model.  I remember some hilarious missions in WB, with a swarm of Ju 87G's strafing and vulching and dogfighting and generally angering the fighter pukes.  :)
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Urchin on December 01, 2002, 09:11:37 PM
The IL-2 is basically useless, and it will continue to be useless until the Flakpansie gets perked.  

You might think the Stuka will be good (at least a G model), and I'll concede that it would be INTERESTING... but it will be even more useless than the IL-2.

The IL-2 has 2 23mm cannon that just shred vehicles.  Its got 4 rockets that just shred vehicles.  It has 6 bombs that are pretty useless against anything but M-3s and M-16s.. or 2 bombs that are slightly bigger but still useless.  

The problem is, to hit stuff with the cannon or rockets you have to be inside of 1k or so.  You also have to be pointed at your target.  The biggest problem is that at least 75% of the vehicles you'll be 'hunting' can kill you in 1 hit.

The Stuka will have 2 really big cannon (37mm) with only 6 rounds apiece.  The Hurricane 2D has 2 really big cannons (40mm) with more than that.  I don't know exactly how much more, because since the plane is utterly useless I don't fly it.  

The Hurricane 2C is far more useful against tanks than the 2D, and it is also better for strafing M-16s and M-3s.  Both of them are dogmeat if they try to take on a Flakpansie.
Title: Stuka Pre-Whine Thread
Post by: Glasses on December 01, 2002, 10:13:23 PM
"Remember don't forget to bring a towel... Want to  get high? "



"It's on TV, you need to believe everything the TV says"
Title: Re: Stuka Redux
Post by: ramzey on December 02, 2002, 02:48:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Solomo
The Stuka's been out a long time in Warbirds....noone ever used it because it's too slow. Good for historical scenarios, that's about it.
Cheers,
Solo


lol, u looks like u dont see too much ju87 raids in WB
so, so dont tell noone.
Sure, mostly stuka is need for historical scenarios.
But should we not here for that?
:D


ramzey