Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Bugjam on July 27, 1999, 10:08:00 AM
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Let it come out if you have any ideas of what good strategy is in online simulation.
Here's a few that comes to my mind. IMO these would be great for gameplay and increase the variety of possible targets. When there's a lot of more than plain field capture in the game it would definitely discourage vulching IMHO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If Aces High is to introduce cities, factories, ports, bridges etc. A nice feature would be to give them different strategic outcomes.
Destroy an ammo train: Less API available. Destroy several trains no API available at all. Must use less lethal ammunition type.
Destroy Aircraft Factory: Certain plane usage limited. eg. Fw190 factory destoyed, Fw190's cannot exceed 20% of country's force.
Destroy City: Slightly Hindered overall rebuild times.
Destroy gun factory: Rebuild times of AAA guns severely hindered.
And maybe a special target randomly set by host. Not too often though, maybe once in about every 5 hours.
ie. on map screen:
"There's 30 minutes time to destroy Factory X. All destroyed elements in the Factory X will have the double impact on enemy activities compared to normal"
Now a well organized country would hastily put up a well escorted buff raid to take the factory out.
Something like that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Am I only dreaming or could these be implemented (in more throughly designed package of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Let us hear your ideas on Strategy!
Bug
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I don't know if bugjam is dreaming or not, but that sure would be a great addition if possible. Currently the WB is having problems with field raiders, because it is so easy.
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Sound great. What about shipping though? We need a good excuse to sink ships as well (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Another idea is to say rebuild times for individual targets (fields, cities, factories, ports etc) are affected by the destruction of bridges on road/rail links to it. Maybe rebuild should be totally dependant on how many trains/boats/trucks manage to reach it. I suppose that also means that when a supply truck/train reaches a broken bridge it starts repairing it then continues (assuming it does not get shot up).
We would have to have such trains & trucks generated at intervals inside an inpregnable tunnel. ships would have to just appear somewhere far from port.
Roblex
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I think you guys are on the right track. The biggest difference between the way the real war was fought in the air and the way we fight it is that the real one centered around depriving the enemy of the resources to conduct operations, and ours centers around defeating his air assets in battle.
In the real war, the air battle was a consequence of the bombing campaign, not an end in itself (although there were some exceptions where the object was to lure the enemy air force into battle and destroy it).
Imagine if every day, there were several bomber squadrons online, and their entire objective was to destroy your factories, railheads, refineries, ports, and airfields.
Imagine there were jabo squads who were always on the prowl for trucks, trains, planes on the ground, enemy tanks, etc.
Imagine there was NO way for the players themselves to actually capture an airfield. The only way to do it would be to kill the planes there, cut off its supply line, reduce the ground strongholds around it, and let the AI overrun it.
Would you want to bomb then? Would you escort a bomber strike? Would you stop furballing at 500 feet long enough to intercept the bombers and furball at 25000 feet instead?
It'd certainly be different, that's for sure.
Start with the supply chain I reckon. Link "tactical" field operations to having the necessary supplies. Add in some AI ground forces.
There will always be furballing. But the furballer who ignores a couple of determined buff squadrons should pay the consequences at some point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
--jedi
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ANYTHING that creates a reason for an aircraft to be in the sim is good!! Ground targets for Fighter Bombers, strategic targets for Heavy Bombers. If you have Heavy Bombers influncing the score then you need Interceptors, ect. ect. It builds on it's self and pretty soon you have a REAL Air War.
What I find so disapointing about WarBirds is that there is NOTHING to do in the Main Arena, or the HA for that matter, but play "Capture the Flag"
The first online sim that has a real stragetic element is going to draw the crowds and make the money. I have no doubts about that...
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Otto CO 111th Fighter Group ziggy2@home.com
111th Fighter Group www.cris.com/~ziggy2/ (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/)
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Field capture may be boring in WB right now, but imo strategy needs to do more than just hurt the other players. You want to gain something for your work, or you'll have a bunch of AW style "porkers" who's idea of fun is smashing undefended assets. Capturing a Naval base could give you more carriers, an Army base more armor deep in enemy territory. Closing radar stations would leave holes in the enemy SA. Cut bridges or rail lines to halt the enemy AI troops advance. Drop troops near a base and give them air cover as they try to do the actual capturing for you. Having AI forces fighting for assets would give us a taste of close air support, and the struggle for air supremacy that marked WWII.
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AW style "porkers" who's idea of fun is smashing undefended assets
IMO undefended target should be hit. Why bother to hit the target with best defence? It's all part of the strategy whether you decide to leave an important facility undefended, whether you defend anything at all. Maybe all you do is just attack flat out.
If we could decide the strategy elements it would take some 5 years to program them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) but hopefully all suggestions are taken under consideration (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Keep up, let HTC hear 'em all!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Bugjam (edited 07-27-1999).]
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BugJam, I think it's a great idea (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The idea of taking out their supplies do make alot of sense and make the game more realistic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) the people who want dog fights would still get them because you would have to protect the heavy's. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You wouls get more squads flying together in the long run more fun more realistic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
~Nastee~
DOA- Dead on Arrival
*Flying Aces*
<Bomber attachment>+
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Brazos, I agree with everything you said.
Any Strategic Model should reward success and punish failure. I'm just not ready to get into the details till we get a commitment that there will be one.
Well.... I do have one little idea on how to stop the "Midnight Bombers." I suggest protecting every valuable target with AAA. The accuracy of this Flak would depend on how many members a country had in the arena. If a countries numbers were low then the AAA would be VERY accruate. If they were high then the guality of the AAA is much lower.
This way, your strategic assests would be defended by the host if you were not present but YOU would have to protect them if you were.
But, like I said, anything would be an improvment over what we have now.
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Otto CO 111th Fighter Group ziggy2@home.com
111th Fighter Group www.cris.com/~ziggy2/ (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/)
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"The accuracy of this Flak would depend on how many members a country had in the arena. If a countries numbers were low then the AAA would be VERY accruate. If they were high then the guality of the AAA is much lower. This way, your strategic assests would be defended by the host if you were not present but YOU would have to protect them if you were."
An excellent idea! Any strategic element will have to incorporate such game play balancing, or the "porkers" will gravitate to the side with the largest numbers, and it'll be a gang bang.
popeye
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An air strategy system has to be based on the bombing campaign, period. To have a bombing campaign you have to make it fun for people to fly bombers, or else you won't see any up. How do you make it fun? I dunno, off the cuff I can think of adding more detail and challenge to flying bombers. I would also make bombers the most important tool of war in the game. I like what B17 II is doing and it would be a good thing to try and make buffing a game within a game in this type of flight sim.
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Kats wrote:
"adding more detail and challenge to flying bombers"
Great idea. Give the "systems management" crowd more stuff to manage in bombers, then make a strat system that really rewards a good buff crew. If you're gonna have Otto, make him get more accurate with experience. That'll give the buff guys another "real" reward for flying to survive.
popeye
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Popeye, nice idea!
Link the range and/or accuracy of the otto to the bombing score of the pilot. Another idea may be to link the otto ability to the number of planes the pilot or top gunner on the plane has shot down manually from bombers this tour.
Roblex
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what about if you bomb an "aircraft parts"factory it puts a 2% reliability hit on an aircraft type so if the factories where being bombed alot aircraft would break, you could have landing gear failure like on the ki84 durring the war. or have problems with engines just quiting guns jamming all kinds of problems that could come up, and they would get worse as the factories are bombed more 2%+ 2%= 2%etc etc
I think iot would be kinda cool lifting off in you p38 and haveing an engine quit caues the turbo factory was hit 10 times!!
Jon
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As Brazos pointed out most of these ideas aren t quite new..they ve been in AW for a long time.
Which doesn t mean I don t like some of them.
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Warning: Most of the following are not genuine ideas, I knowingly stole them from AW and other programs:
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How about damage to airfields affecting the planes taking off from that field?
When you destroy a certain ammount of gas at a field for instance, fuel quality drops and plane performance drops as well on all the planes that need high quality fuel.
Resupplies would be flown in to the fields by players or drones in JU52s, C-47s, etc..
The factory idea is kinda cool (and stolen from AW too) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Assign a certain value to all important structures (ressource points) like fields, factories, ports etc.
Use these points to determine the outcome of the conflict, not just the number of fields a country owns.
How about including ground troops?
Ok, ok I know this game is not called "Aces Low", but again I think that the AW approach of including certain vehicles is definatly a step in the right direction. ("Electronic Battlefield")
Finally I don t think that having "unguarded" targets would ruin the game. It would add more strategy and be a welcome change from the "Capture all the fields" thing. Besides: There s always the flak to defend targets like that.
Sascha
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Perhaps there could be an arena Just for bombing and other strat stuff, and an arena where one could actually participate in ACM?
(Just an idea)
DamnedHorn
(non-buffer)
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Uh.. . guys. . we need some trains.
(http://www.concentric.net/~grzero/P47Train.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vicious aka -vics-
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Very good ideas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really liked the Popeye's idea of making otto more accurate with experience!
I really didn't know AW had that much strategy, never played it. How come they were able to make it such a bad game (so i've heard) if they had such good ideas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
It would nice to have some from the HTC to tell us if some these ideas were already implemented or what kind strategy "model" they have considered to be implemented.
Bug
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hehe bugjam
AW s flightmodel, graphics, gunnery model and realism just plain sucked. But there were some very cool features in that game. What really kicked bellybutton were the "online briefings".
You d get into a briefing room with tons of pilots and the briefing officer would "switch the lights off": Then he was the only one who could talk. He d upload the briefing complete with waypoints and ALTs and all to the room so all pilots in there could see it.
Then if questions came up he could "recognize" players for them to pose a quick question. When you got into the cockpit you would find the flightplan and the waypoints on your inflight map.
AW in general was pretty cool when you were on the ground: A lot of neat options in the tower and the whole menue structure was much more elabotrate than the WB twr IMHO. When you took to the air though...***YUCK!** (in comparison to WB) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sascha
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Strategy = penalty
Main Arena penalty = players loggin out
(see Air Warrior)
Players loggin out = lost revenue
Lost revenue is not a good thing,hence it won't happen.
Build a closed end Limited Rescource Engagement Arena for Squad Matchs.
Fill it with penalties and tons of tough decisions to react to quickly.
LIMIT the Aircraft per Team/Player for the duration of the Engagement.
AND,more importantly the resources that feed them.
Also, allow for ground straiffing/bombing off
stowed aircraft.
Disable respawning.
C.A.P., ground attack, realistic flying, tough decisions,and essence of time ALL slide to the forefront.
And all yer problems that frustrate you with
main arena antics disappear.
Its Plane & Simple
Rattler
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Gentlemen,
I hear a lot of Warbirds type thinking in here, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that....but. There are soon going to be a half dozen Warbirds wanna-bes' and what our thinking should be is "how do we make Aces High stand out from the crowd?"
In order to do that, you have to think of things you CAN get in warbirds as well as the things you CAN'T.
If Aces High is identical to Warbirds where is the incentive? Cudos' to the cowl-flap and prop pitch crowd (I'm not one of them, but I would learn), because if CGW or PCG reviewed Aces High as "The most realistic sim out there...." huge numbers of gamers would come just "because". That is an example of new thinking.
That being shelved, you have to pick an extreme, then sand off the rough edges. Mediocrity will mean failure in the not too distant future. If Aces High is to become king off the heap, it has to be known as the sim with the best _________. Try filling in the blank and see what we can come up with.
Stop trying to think Warbirds. What is a main arena? In warbirds, the "Main" was really a "fantasy" arena.....Do we want to be known as the sim with the best fantasy arena? (wrist goes limp)
Build a better Warbirds, and all you have is Warbirds. Lets think new, and if its been done, can it (just for now) and see if we can't pool our collective conciousness into something outstanding.
Why not several arenas, with historically correct opponents? Plus a fantasy arena labeled as such?
Would that let the mags label Aces High as the sim with the best gameplay? Things for discussion.
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Now the jucies are flowing,
Rattler nailed it for me. A main arena for constant dogfighting, but smaller controlled arenas for squad or group play. To compare to WB's main and HA. Only instead of HA's huge map that is hardly used, use smaller battle arenas with set objectives. Less warps, more fun with clear cut results. Battle of Britain, Battle of Midway, D-Day, North Africa, all with historical aircraft. Have squad battles until you win, then try again.
AW was once the best sim in the world. But lack of progress has it falling behind. Compared to modern six degree of freedom sims, it seems outdated, but there is much there to learn from. These new smaller arenas could use it's leader run briefing rooms. AH could adapt it's airfield damage, such as ammo and fuel dumps that affect your loadout and performance. Factory and refinery supply vehicles, that when delayed, hamper repairs.
Tanks, AA Flakpanzers, Jeeps, Fleets and I hope troops to drive the battlefield.
We won't get it all right away. But when was the last time you had a developer and his design team reading your post as they code? This is one time to let the dreams flow freely. Whoops, I'm late for pre-flight!
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Cya up...Brazos
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"Plus a fantasy arena labeled as such? "
Yeah! What we need is POWER-UPs!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Hey, stop hitting me..
-Jinx
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Gunsgg,
I know you are a WB player so I am surprised you are suggesting lots of small arenas.
Warbirds has lots of trouble getting people to join the Historical Arena because if it is empty nobody goes in and if nobody goes in then it is empty and if........... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What you are suggesting is having 5 Historical Arenas..am I reading something wrong ? I know that squadrons can agree to all turn up at the same time but even that does not work that well in WB. Do you have a cunning plan ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Roblex
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Jinx...I can't tell if you are being funny or facitious...if you are being funny then LOL. I have had my fill of "fantasy" arenas with Warbirds. By fantasy I mean B17s and JUs together in formation protected by 190's and attacked by spits and zekes. If thats what I wanted I would stick with Warbirds.
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Just thinking out loud here..
How about if there where ‘missions’ generated on the fly for anyone wanting one. Let the player choose a fighter, stike or level bombing type mission profile for a number of players he drums up, the host would generate the mission so it fits with the current arena situation and other checked out missions.
A fighter mission could be to escort a recently checked out bombing mission, or CAP over a target for example. The mission outcome would determine the scoring for the participating players and missions would be the only way to really effect how the ‘war’ would progress.
I don’t know, might be hard to coordinate.
-Jinx
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GunsGG, sorry, was just trying to be funny before my first cup of coffee.. I should know better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Jinx
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Roblex, one way to get folks into an empty arena might be to give them some kind of incentive. Let them fly that session at half price if they are among the first 10 (first 5 on each side?) in the arena or something.
-Jinx
[This message has been edited by Jinx (edited 07-30-1999).]
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No offence taken Jinx...I suffer from the same malady.
I still think the idea of multiple mini arenas would work well. Use a number of AI opponents to take up the slack. TF III is doing this, and is supposed to work exceptionally well.
For example, if the Scenario mission involves taking off from a carrier to bomb a port, there could be AI wingmen that disappear as real players take over..couple this with a set beginning time and you will not have planes vanishing halfway into a mission.
I play a number of online games, and there are great ways to handle this problem....most of the time you wouldn't realize you had an AI wingman.
Who says it has to be a static "one" world?
if you have a choice of flying BOB at 8:00, 8:20 and Midway at 7:50 and 8:10, Russian front at 7:40 and 8:20, Mossie dam busting at 7:30 and 8:40 would that appeal to you? Each mission has a starting and ending time, and repeats in and endless loop, so you would find at least one convenient time to fly your favorite.
This would also be nice for squads. If you like German equipment, your squad would know that dive bombers are attacking france at 6:50 Wednesdays, 7:10 thursdays, and 8:30 fridays. IJN? Same thing...7:10 on wednesday, 8;30 thursday, and 8:50 fridays.
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One word baby…Dam Busting!!!!
Finished laughing yet? Well I’m serious. NOBODY has done it. Think about it, give the buff pilots a reason to have a joystick. Flying deep into enemy territory at tree top level. Starting your bomb run upstream. Dodging AA from the riverbanks and Dam. Your gunners pouring fire into the defensive positions. Chopping throttle to get slow and level for the drop. Holding your breath, white knuckled waiting… Steady....Steady…Release …“Bomb Gone”. Full throttle, crank the stick back climbing desperate to make the sound of the Acks ravaging punishment stop. Your crew silent, hanging on every word from the tail gunner. “First bounce… Second …..Third.. Dammit! It skipped over the top!”.
IMHOP this or a similar mission objective should be made so difficult that it would be recognized as an extraordinary achievement. Something to make the whole arena take instant notice. Make the threat of loosing an asset such as a Dam so detrimental that the entire “country “ would unite in its defense and such a prize for the attacker that an entire country might attack with unified intent.
I might have had two ideas there? Time for a nap!
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Hip
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Small personal engagement arena's could be priced as follows and filled accordingly.
For conversation sake on the Price:
$1.50 an hour for a Max. 2.5 hour Engagement would not be 2.5 X 1.50 = 3.75 , but rather only charge for 2 of the hours or $3.00
Give each side X amount of aircraft and resources and when their gone the engagement is over,regardless of whether it took 1 hour
of 2.5 hours.Although target completion is
2 hours.
Beta testing the arena could gauge the time vs. resources in order to get the proper setup.
Sides could be unbalanced in numbers.
For instance Early Russain Front.
50 Russian aircraft ( I-16's ) vs.
35 Early German AC (stuka's and 109's)
Players per side could be unbalanced a little
as long as the # of aircraft and resources were appropiate.
Squadron Registration pages could be set-up
where squad members & fill in pilots could register ahead.
A Forum could aid in matching up Squadrons.Once registered your liable to
be billed.
But,say for instance you can't make it,a fill
in could take over your spot for 1/2 price.
Your still liable for the other 1/2.Incentive
to show up,and for a fill in take your empty slot.
Something along these lines could work.
Hey, a vast majority of WWII online flight sim folks are active in AeroSquadrons as it is.
Its just of matter of dotting the i's and getting them together.The main arena concept
has wore out its welcome IMO for Squad Nights,and only serves to satisfy the dogfighting urge.
Its time to give strat a chance,and squadrons
a place to do their thing right!
Everything has a place including uninhibitated Furballing, Strategy Concepts,
and Historical Senarios.
Just not in the same arena.I'd like to see them spread out accordingly.
Rattler
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Here's another idea;
How about when you are in the tower and one of your enemy attacks the base, Make it so you are able to jump behind one of the guns protecting the base. That would be differant.
possibly even fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Didnt have enough time to read all the posts, but i another suggestion.
I don't know if this IS what you guys meant when you said that you get punished/rewarded for destroying targets etc, but IMO there has to be a way to win the battle. Knock out all the airfields, cities, or something, and a message shows up "The Allies Have Won the War!" And everything is reset.
This is how the FC and F22 L/3 are, and almost everyone has a great time fighting like this.
Once there are few airfields or just one left, everyone has to start from there, so there is more CAP and all the pilots are there, so it gets tougher to finish it off.
Once you do it is nice to win the thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Flying and shooting forever without cause is NOT as fun..
Blah blah whatever i'm trying to say,
Another suggestion, this would be just for fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Have a little jeep you can drive around in, you wouldn't get to do anything but drive, and the other planes can try to straffe you.. well *i* think it would be fun anyway hehehe
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I like the idea of having specific targets tied to specific functions (smash aaa factory and aaa guns rebuild slower), but we'll need good documentation on the relationships or good maps from HTC. I don't want to start a flame war, but a big gripe of mine with "the other game" was that getting info on what affected what was like pulling teeth. A comprehensive strategy model with it being up to the player to figure it all out would be a major turnoff, and would drive at least me away from doing anything other than A/A. I guess if I want to be an adventurer, I'll go play EQ or something (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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we'll need good documentation on the relationships or good maps from HTC. I don't want to start a flame war, but a big gripe of mine with "the other game" was that getting info on what affected what was like pulling teeth.
How about... When you look at map in tower/hangar before takeoff you could point your mouse on each target, click it and get info on it. Information like, what the target is, size, what it affects, what's it is overall condition (e.g. AAA factory 56% operative). What individual targets at the half destoyed target are down would be unkown. It's up to you what loadout you'll take with you if you want to completely destroy the factory. There could be all hard targets up or only AAA up, you never know... maybe you want to make a recon flight over the target before going up for the buff run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Recon flights could be especially useful before mass raids like squadron events.
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Bugjam
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The strategic system we implemented this week consist of the following
There are 3 levels of strategic stuff.
Top level.
Cities
Cities will have lots of buildings. There % of dead buildings effects the down time of Factorys.
Factory's are owned by countries and effect the down times of bunkers at a countries fields.
Factory Types
Munitions.
Fuel.
Military Training center.
AAFactory.
Radar factory.
Special Factory
HQ
Destroying a country's HQ will disable a countries sector counter.
Bunkers
Each airfield has a set of bunkers of the following type
Bunker Types.
Ammo
Limits all ordnance other than bullets at the field
Fuel
Limits Amount of fuel you can load at that field.
Barracks
Disables loading of paratroopers.
AAA.
Just stop shooting at you.
Radar
Shuts off field based radar.
Field capture will be done with troops.
The paratroops will attack the map room.
After a field capture.
The map room is rebuilt instantly.
All other Bunkers will rebuild at the capturing county's Factory rates.
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This might not be politically correct but, I think you should keep an Axis vs Allied theme whether it is in the PTO or ETO, and then maybe have a Fantasy Arena similar to WB's MA. Nothing sweeter than taking your P47D train busting, or your BF109G10's and jumping a bunch of low Tempests rtb'ing after a low level jabo. I just have a hard time attacking a bunch of "red" Corsairs with my "gold" P51/Fw190. Planes were developed to fight other specific planes.
I think there are good ideas on limiting access and affects on "quality" of aircraft available, but there should be some basic baseline that does not totally alienate a pilot from selecting his aircraft. The quality of the plane in the air should not be affected, but when landing, or time of flight , or amounts of ordinace available could be affected.
Beeray
beeray
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Atleast I'm *very* pleased with the announced strategic model. By no means it's perfect but it's way much better than in the other flight sim. It's gives the game such a strong strategic base it can be easily devoloped in the future (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just add trains and vehicle convoys and it gets all the better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thank you HTC
<SALUTE>
Bug
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Well.... It's a start. It will be interesting to see if we can find out which of these targets is the real "Ballbearing" factory (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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ahh... i want the possiblity of supply planes... if a field is damaged... you can take a dc3/ju52 with resupply and land at the field to make it rebuild faster... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
iam a fighterjoch... but hell... a nice
run in a dc3/ju52 or whatever from time to time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
oups... already thought off... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
// tiggre
[This message has been edited by tiggre (edited 08-03-1999).]
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Green Spitfire fighting a Red Spitfire?
hmm kinda silly if you ask me
an idea if a arena is generated like MA in Warbirds and we have say 4 teams...ie
Green,Red,Purple,Golds
how about if each colour is assigned to a particular Airforce. an examples as follows
Green = British,American)
Red = Japanese
Gold = German
Purple = Russian
then if you want to fly a Spit or a Mustang you fly for the green side and so forth with flying a FW190 or 109 you fly for Gold
i think this way you can have a HA/MA mixed type war arena and then a good idea of how war in Sims like this can turn out
what do you think?
Belgar
Member of 617 RAF [TANGMERE WING]
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I like the strategy idea you are proposing Hitech. I would take it a little further.
Put a City near each airfield. Put some of the factories in the cities near the airfields.
Each country should have a Big City, Like New York, London, Tokoyo, Moscow, or Berlin. Link the Big City to the Smaller City with Rail, Roads, and Shipping.
Put the HQ Factory in the Big City.
Link the Smaller Cities to the Airfields with Roads. If you strafe the transport it would affect the rebuild times of the the Cities and Airfields.
When People Log On they should Choose.
1. Country.
2. Mission Type (JABO, Heavy Bomber, Fighter.)
3. Squadron.
When you log to a squad you are assigned as someones wingman. If he is killed you become lead, and when a newby logs they are assigned to your wing. IF Elements get three deep, and more newbys log you become a Flight Leader in the order that you logged.
Squadrons should all have a plane type. I.E. P-40 Squadrons, P-51 Squadrons, Spit Squadrons, 190 Squadrons, Etc.
New Squadrons would be come available depending on National Health.
I don't know how already organized squadrons would fit in yet?
Aircraft Availibilty should be linked to National Health. So If your not defending your home land, you may only have 1 P-51 Squadron and 5 P-40 Squadrons.
Of course just taking out the Ammo BUnkers shouldn't immediately ruin an Ack Batteries ability to defend the AIrfield, they can shoot until they run out of ammo.
For Theatres/Arenas I would LIke.
China Burma India (Flying Tigers)
Russian Front
Battle Of Britain
Phillipean Islands
GuadalCannal/Iwo/ Pacific Islands, with airfields laid out properly.
New Guinea
Malta
Italy/Scicly
Midway
Coral Sea
Aleutians (With SNOW WIND AND FOG)
North Africa (With SAND)
A Generic FEBA (Forward Edge Of the Battle Area) With Tanks, Artillery, Troops, Trucks to strafe. Everything would shoot at you.
(Whoo Hoo, Strafing Trenches!!!!)
Pearl Harbor.
Truk
You could Rotate the Arenas as had been suggested earlier.
I would make them historicall accurate as much as possible.
For BOB Brits get Radar, LW Aircraft Don't.
Same for CBI, IJA No Radar, AVG/Brits Radar.
Could there be some sort of Automated DAR Operators? That would preclude someone sitting in the tower at whatever expense you plan on charging, to steer the troops about?
OF course if the DAR at your Airfield is Attacked you loose that DAR and its reports?
Probably More Later,
And how do you become a Alpha Tester in this Outfit?
Also please put the Disney Flying Tiger on the P-40C, it wasn't a SQUADRON logo.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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Hitech
I like what you said you put in for strategy. Have one suggestion how about how they get resupplied train are good idea but more code to right planes are allready there how about using a drone system to resupply the airfields make for an on going battle and on the slow days or time of day use drone fighters to gaurd airfields and cities. Big refineries would be great also they were hard to knock out in the real war. Supplies being hidden was also used in combat spare plane were hidden in the forest so we could hunt them down. Just a few thoughts.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon
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Hitech - Can you make sure that Downtowns and Indians suggestions are incorporated and a public beta released by Friday ? Shouldn't add much to your work-load. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
No offense Guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Good ideas but I suspect we will have to wait a bit longer for that level of detail, more's the pity. It seems everyone wants to shoot trains and trucks. I suggest you all buy a copy of 'Operation Overlord' and get it out of your system. You could also try the new 'Mig alley' which despite being mostly Jets includes Prop ground attack missions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Roblex
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"Special Factory
HQ
Destroying a country's HQ will disable a countries sector counter."
Does this mean that there will be AW style sector counters? Visible in flight or just in the tower?
popeye
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You can't limit the plane sets to colors unless you balance the plane sets.
In WB right now the Russian, British, and Japanese Plane Sets are Pitifully WEAK.
You can't limit one country to the Betty, A6M, Ki-84, and Ki-61 and give the other the
B-17, Spitfire, Mustang, Corsair, Typhoon, P-39, P-38, F4f, F4U, F6F, Mossie, Etc.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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HT:
How will this model prevent the typical WBs gangbang? The number of targets to kill will favor the country with higher numbers, and punish the one with low numbers.
How will you preserve play-balance?
val
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Scott (val) Valline
Dweebs of Death
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--- Hitech: ---
Field capture will be done with troops.
The paratroops will attack the map room.
--- End ---
Oh dear, how exciting air to air fights this will introduce.
Only way to save the air to air fights now is to make the final part of capturing very fast operation, and make the off field targets the main part of such operation. Something like 10 times more time consuming.
//fats
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val,
Someone, (not me), had the very good idea to inversely link a country's defensive ack strength to its airpower strength. A country with a small number of pilots would have extra defensive ack to protect its cities and factories. As the number of pilots increased, the ack strength would decrease, and airpower would be needed to protect the ground assets.
This would help reduce the probabilites of a gangbang, and balance gameplay.
popeye
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 08-03-1999).]
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Sounds like a great idea POPEYE.
I don't see that listed in HT's strategy rundown. That is why I asked my question :-). I am sure they are well aware of the pitfalls in balancing play. I just wanted to point out that people generally 'game' whatever features you put into place.
val
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Scott (val) Valline
Dweebs of Death
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That was me Popeye. What I really like is how, during "Prime Time", a country would have to defend it's Strategic assests and there would finally be a reason to have true inerceptors like the TA-152 and (crossing fingers) the ME-163, or even the P-47N. One can always hope,,, (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Otto CO 111th Fighter Group ziggy2@home.com
111th Fighter Group www.cris.com/~ziggy2/ (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/)
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Dagnabbit HiTech, if you make the "rules" of the game public, what am I gonna gripe about?
I think the relationships sound pretty cool. Trains and other lines of supply that could be interdicted, further slowing building and city rebuild time or interrupting supply flow to fields, would be cool too. A train every 15 min and a steady stream of trucks via different routes... *drool* Add in the occasional "flak wagon" train or truck convoy to suprise the supply vulchers, and it would get even more interesting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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I agree with the posts here and elsewhere that request an arena with more of a historical feel to it. Honestly, I would have quit WB twelve and a half months ago if it wasn't for the re-opening of the Historical Arena. I don't mean to be a party pooper, but if AH is just a spruced up version of the WarBirds main arena when it goes pay, I will be very VERY hesitant to sign up.
Spitfire vs Mustang encounters are just a total turn off for me (and many others, I'd guess).
Ivedog
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Fly with The Volunteers! (http://volunteers.home.att.net/home.html)
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My only comment is that I would like to see something else the target of the troops besides the airfield. Make an Army base or town the object to be captured. When the base is captured, the field it defends is captured too. I would like to see the battle moved away from the fields. Would be cool too to be able to supply troops to your side of the lines to reinforce troops for an invasion, would be cool to see paras duking it out with enemy troops. Tanks, AAA vehicles/tanks, etc etc.
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Would be cool too to be able to supply troops to your side of the lines to reinforce troops for an invasion, would be cool to see paras duking it out with enemy troops.
How about this:
You could capture enemy factories as well with troops? Significant effect for countrys operations. And more use for troops.
Give Troops ability to fight other troops!
Imagine this. Enemy has dropped troops near to your AAA factory. You get couple of troop planes with ground attack planes and interceptors to counter these troops. first jabos kill as much troops as possible, then own troops are dropped to counter enemy troops. Interceptors provide CAP.
If troops are dropped too close to own field, they go straight to barracks. This would prevent dweebish behaviour seen in the 'other game' by dropping troops on own runway.
And to scare those who like flying low, could it be possible to randomly add flak positions to terrain? Thus would born new hobby, flak supression away from fields.
(http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/warbirds/Images/yellow_2.gif)
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Obfr. jochen 'Stern von Afrika' 2./ Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika'
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Please just edit the bombblast... it's pittyful in wb... dropping a 250lb is the same as a 1000lb... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
also the bombing of runway should make a bigger impact, shouldn't just pull and takeoff from the grass without difficulty (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
taking out hq should make you unable to see radar from all fields just by beeing at one field... you have to jump between them (annoying huh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AND MOST IMPORTANT... i NEED skipbombs for my p51d...
// tiggre 249RAF 'Tangmere Wing'
'cats like to skip'
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Eagl wrote:
"Trains and other lines of supply that could
be interdicted, further slowing building and city rebuild time or interrupting supply flow
to fields, would be cool too. A train every 15 min and a steady stream of trucks via
different routes... *drool* Add in the occasional "flak wagon" train or truck convoy to suprise the supply vulchers,"
I would love that feature. You would see IMO alot more pilots scouring the countryside in straffing missions, myself included. I stink at A/A but love performing ground attack..hmm I stink at that as well..anyway back to topic , It would give more room for squad tactics and varied joint missions. The Stuka and Sturmovik would then have reasons to be introduced and flown. PLEEEEEAASE think of including it guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ping
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Ummm… this looks on the outside quite interesting but I'd like to delve into this a bit deeper.
1. If you plaster the enemies city it affects the downtime of the factories.
2. There are 5 different factories but if you then clobber them it is unclear from looking at the above as to what good this does you… I have to assume that if you plaster say the munitions factory you limit the amount of ammo reaching your opponents airfields? Is this true?
3. If you then set about an airfield there are various bunkers to hit that I take are all supplied from a relevant factory.
This special factory… the HQ… what the hell is a "sector" counter?
What is the relationship between a factory and the relevant bunker at an airfield? Does the factory supply the bunker? If so, how is it re-supplied? Does it just happen? I guess that in the future this leaves scope for putting in railroads, convoys and ships for re-supply purposes that could then be straffed/attacked by ground attack aircraft?
One thing that worries me a bit. If you continually pound the city, the munitions factory and the munitions bunkers at the airfields then only bullets will be available and there will be no bombs available to hit back. How is a country going to fight back? Wouldn't it be better to make certain targets on the map "hardened" so that they can't be destroyed with conventional weapons but could and should be destroyed by say a 12,000 lb "Tallboy" dropped from a Lanc (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You would then have good reason to fly these bomber missions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards
Daren
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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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Somewhere I saw Hitech or Pyro post that when you are in the tower you would be able to see a graph of how your country was doing. So you would know if your bomb factory was in the pits and in need of protection.
In all honesty I believe that if you severly impact (w/craters) a countries manufacturing ability, the war should go that much quicker. If say the Knight's Munitions, Training Center, and HQ are knocked out the should pretty much be a pushover and the war end quickly.
My idea of linking everything together, with smaller cities and factories is that you would have more dispersion of targets.
Don't remember if it was this thread or not but someone talked about an aircraft parking area near the airfield. Like a Giant Parking Lot. I kinda Like this Idea but would prefer several Small Satellite Spawning areas around an airfield. Maybe with dirt runways, etc.
You could limit activity at the satellite fields to just refuel and rearm. No repair.
So you could keep your plane.
(Ooooh to taxi into a camoflaged revetment)
These would make convient ditch point also.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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"This special factory… the HQ… what the hell is a "sector" counter?"
In the AirWarrior map view, there were (are?) icons (small dots) in each sector which indicate the number of friendly/enemy planes in the sector. They only show the numbers of planes in the sector, NOT their position. It is a kind of "intelligence" information, and could be used to follow and predict enemy force movements beyond radar range, or just to find a fight. In AirWarrior, sector counters were visible in flight.
It would make sense to lose sector counters when the HQ was destroyed, since they represent intelligence information.
In AH, I hope sector counters would only be visible in the tower, and their update rate would represent a significant delay in gathering, processing, and distributing non-radar information.
popeye
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Then you've got the site managers delema, to reset or not to reset that is the question. Weather to piss off the winning team who has the enemy cornered at one base with limited ammo and limited planes because a determend squadron or two in England flew all night (US time)while the skys were clear and mopped up. Or have the whole arena in a state of limbo for hours, days? I've seen that in Warbirds many times.
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1st off, this thread is from 1999. Just had to bring it up.......
Dog out.