Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Beefcake on November 30, 2002, 11:15:28 PM
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Or the Sd KFz 7/1. Both are faster than the Osty but both are also alot weaker in armor. It would make a good replacement for the osty.
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(http://www.wargamer.com/cm/images/wirbelwind.jpg)
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Wirbelwind anyone?
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no thank you.
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heh, only thing worse than the osty would be the wirblewind. Already the m16 is a better air defense vehicle than the ostwind, the wirblewind combines the best of both. It'd be a good addition, but would need to be perked even more than the ostwind needs to be.
The reason the ostwind is so popular is that air defense plays a secondary role to getting kills. The ostwind is better for squaring off against fighters, while the m16 is better for defending targets when the fighter isn't trying to kill you.
In short, nobody cares about saving anyone else, just thier own ass. (Rule #1 of internet gaming)
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The whirblewind really shined when it chopped up allied troops on the battlefield.
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Well the Sd Kfz 7/1 had the same gun package as the Wirblewind, but it is mounted on a Gun Tractors frame. It would be alot faster but it has alot less armor.
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Yes. halftrack with single 37mm or quad 20mm please.
the osty as a perk. thats all it should ever have been.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Yes. halftrack with single 37mm or quad 20mm please.
I would recommend, if the SdKfz 7/1 and SdKfz 7/2 are implemented, that the implemented versions be the later, armored version to improve survival some. Before people start screaming, I should point out that the armor was for the engine compartment and cab, not the gun:
(http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/bo7-18.jpg)
This would improve (slightly; the armor was comparable to the M-16's) the ability of the crew to survive an attack while driving the vehicle -- expanding the damage range between getting immobilized and blowing up, giving the crew a greater chance to bail. It doesn't protect the gun crew any better, though.
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It is an idea that has merit.
That trailer would give it a phenomenal ammo load too.
palef
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Yes the armor only protects the engine and driver, the gun platform has no armor at all except for the small shield on the front of the gun.
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Why should the osty be perked?
Somebody right up a list of the reasion why please, this should be fun. I obviously dont think it should, but I have stated so and why so many times I am weary of it.
Beefcake, that armor is a joke the freaking 7mm can disable an osty what is that armor going to do on the Halftrack.?
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I'd vote for a SdKfz 7/1 20mm FLAK vierling
Tronsky
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Brady- on most things you and I agree. On this I disagree vehemently with you.
The Ostwind was not produced in great numbers. I believe 43 were made. This past tour, the Ostwind had ~42,000 kills. Thats just about 1,000 kills per machine MADE. On top of the ludicrously low prduction numbers (which seem to be cause enough to perk some otherwise unspectacular planes), the Ostwind gets more than twice the kills of the next closest vehicle (the Panzer). It had ~55% of the total kills made by GVs. It utterly dominates the "anti-tank" planes we have now.
It is practically immune to bombs of less than 500 pounds. The 'open-topped' turret which should be just about an instant kill is also not easily damaged except by Hispanos or 30mm weapons. And of course, while you need a nice, sustained, two second burst to knock out the turret, it needs a single hit to kill you.
It is also, incidentally, the only GV to use for destroying objects. One time a couple months ago, I took an Ostwind to an enemy field that wasn't under attack by our planes. I took out all the field ack, killed the fuel, barracks, and radar, destroyed the VH, killed 3 planes trying to take off or land, then rolled over to the town and killed all of it, then proceeded to kill 1 other Ostwind, 2 Panzers, and an enemy M-3. I still had ammo left over.
My biggest problem with it (besides the fact that it will kill any single engined plane with 1 hit) is that you can't ignore it. Let a Ostwind roll up to a field, and 2 minutes later all the ack is dead and the Flakpansie has closed that field all by himself. Let him roll up to the town and 1 minute later the entire town is dead. Then 2 minutes after that you lose the field because an M3 rolled up with 5 other Flakpansies as 'escort'.
It is an 'all-in-wonder' weapon, thats why it should be perked.
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The more planes that are perked will only encourge what I consider "camping/vulching" what I mean is people who fly at 15k to 25k looking for players to dive on. To me this is the same as camping in a counter strike/quake game its only for loosers who want to boast their ego by telling everyone that they are the greatest player on the net"!
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Part of the Ostwind's überness stems from the fact that the damage model seems to derive directly from Fletcher Pratt's WWII naval rules, where ships were monolithic chunks of metal -- you made an attack that did 10% of the ship's damage capacity, all of the ship's abilities were reduced 10% (speed, each gun turret, etc.), so that any weapon, no matter how tiny, can eventually destroy anything if you pour on enough fire. Until we get a damage model that accurately reflects whether a round penetrates, and if it does penetrate, what structural damage it does to the object it hits, we're going to continue to see small-caliber high-explosive projectiles taking out vehicles and structures that would, IRL, shrug off the attack.
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The only perking the Osty needs is when it's remotely spawned. It should, IMNSHO, be free for base defense.
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For all the reasons you like to sneak in and park it behind a hanger and vulch a field Bradey.
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From Urchin:
"The Ostwind was not produced in great numbers. I believe 43 were made. This past tour, the Ostwind had ~42,000 kills. Thats just about 1,000 kills per machine MADE. On top of the ludicrously low prduction numbers (which seem to be cause enough to perk some otherwise unspectacular planes)"
The ostwind is representive of a number of Armored AA vehicals in use in WW2, the Soviets had the SU 37 which is basicaly the same thing, The Brit's had a similar weapon and the US did not to mention several German vehicals using the same gun. So as is the case with many other points derived from based on production numbers this is kind a moot point.
," the Ostwind gets more than twice the kills of the next closest vehicle (the Panzer). It had ~55% of the total kills made by GVs. It utterly dominates the "anti-tank" planes we have now."
The ostwind should have more kills than the Panzer the ostwind is the only GV that can effectively compeat aganst aircraft in AH. AH is compleatly unrealistic in the way in which aircraft interact with GV's their effectivenns aganst them is way off of any reasionable historical effectivenns that planes had aganst them. So in that vain when ostiwnds are being used agnst planes atacking a field they should be used more often and have more of an impact in terms of kills.
"It is practically immune to bombs of less than 500 pounds. "
LOL, any one who is any good with a bomb can kill any GV with a 50KG bomb, one is enough if deleaved right.
"The 'open-topped' turret which should be just about an instant kill is also not easily damaged except by Hispanos or 30mm weapons."
LOL, I have my osty turet killed all the time by all sorts of weapons from 7mm up and from all angles, hell I killed 8 ostys in a 1 hour perioud using the guns alone on a A6M2.It has been shown numiours time that the osty turet is actualy undermodeled in terms of it's abality to withstand fire aganst it from weapons that should not be able to hurt it based on armor value and range.
" And of course, while you need a nice, sustained, two second burst to knock out the turret, it needs a single hit to kill you. "
Well it should only take one hit to kill you, and a good one second burst in the top is suficient yes, or would .2 seconds make u feal better?
"It is also, incidentally, the only GV to use for destroying objects. One time a couple months ago, I took an Ostwind to an enemy field that wasn't under attack by our planes. I took out all the field ack, killed the fuel, barracks, and radar, destroyed the VH, killed 3 planes trying to take off or land, then rolled over to the town and killed all of it, then proceeded to kill 1 other Ostwind, 2 Panzers, and an enemy M-3. I still had ammo left over. "
This has a lot to with how HTC treats HE in the game, if they look at how this works adn make adjustment's has they have hinted they are going to do them i think this will be less of an issue, curently the osty fires off he equavelency to the panzers one 75mm round ever 4 rounds I think so their is no way the Panzer can compeat. The AP effectiveness of the Ostys gun is actualy prety good somthing like 35mm at 30 degreas at 100 yards.
"My biggest problem with it (besides the fact that it will kill any single engined plane with 1 hit) is that you can't ignore it."
So it is ok to argue for historical effectivenss of weapos as long as it does not inconveance you?The 37mm round it fires is bigger and mre destructive than the 30mm MK 108 yet were not upset that it takes only one hit to kill most all the time.
"Let a Ostwind roll up to a field, and 2 minutes later all the ack is dead and the Flakpansie has closed that field all by himself."
Once again ths has a lot to with how HTC models HE equavelency and less to do with the ostwind, Dieacking a field can be done with M8's and Panzers as well.
"Let him roll up to the town and 1 minute later the entire town is dead. Then 2 minutes after that you lose the field because an M3 rolled up with 5 other Flakpansies as 'escort'. "
Well again this goes back to He equavelency,this is also kinda a lame argument in that an A20G and a M3 team can do the same thing, the key hear is that for both to actualy do this they would have to go unoticed, if they were at all they could easly be stoped.
"It is an 'all-in-wonder' weapon, thats why it should be perked."
It is curently the only way GV's can operate in AH as an effective, viable means to be used for defense or atack, remove the osty or perk it and the numbers used will drop signistudmuffinently, perking even with a small point value will have a drastic impact on usage, I have always hoped the GV aspect of AH would be increased to perk the osty would do the opsit.
Osty's require paiticane and forthought to kill , at least to do so with impunity, certainly as much as any one on one dogfight would require, all other GV's are dog meat.
Osty's are also very easy to knock out, if you find that not true then perhaps u nead to think about how you are going about doing that.