Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hans on April 30, 2001, 04:55:00 AM
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I just ran thru the numbers and wrote down the Kill-To-Death ratios of all the planes in the game. I wanted to see which plane is the most deadly opponent.
I don't really care about popularity. You can fly how many times you like, but in the end if your dying more than your killing, your not winning in my book. Popularity matters diddly.
Ta152 3.01
Tempest 2.87
Fw190D9 1.50
Fw190A5 1.42
Corsair C 1.39
109G2 1.36
Yak9U 1.29
P47D25 1.29
La7 1.23
Fw190A8 1.18
109G10 1.15
Typhoon 1.10
109G6 1.07
N1K1 1.03
P51B 1.01
Yak9T .96
Spit 9 .95
P51D .94
Corsair D .89
Spit V .86
C205 .86
109F4 .81
Seafire .76
B17 .74
La5FN .74
A6M5 .74
P38 .73
Fw190F8 .71
F6F .67
P47D30 .65
B26 .61
Lancaster .53
C.202 .50
Arado 234 .39
Ju88 .25
TBM .18
I was shocked to see how well the German planes are doing, particularily the G2. I had no idea that plane was a killer (over 1.0 kill ratio is what counts to me).
Obviously the perk fighters are really killers, because their owners are probably like me, flying really anally when your in a perk.
The Arado seems to be doing well too, considering it has no guns.
Hans.
P.S. This ought to be interesting. These stat posts always end up fairly long.
[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Originally posted by Hans:
109G2 1.36
I was shocked to see how well the German planes are doing, particularily the G2. I had no idea that plane was a killer (over 1.0 kill ratio is what counts to me).
Lentolaivue 34 has 460 kills and has been killed 154 times in the Bf 109G-2. K/D= 2.99.
The Bf 109G-2 has 1334 kills and has been killed 981 times. K/D= 1.36
So if you subtract LLv34's scores from the total, you get 874 kills and 827 deaths, K/D= 1.06.
That drops it between the G-6 and N1K in your list. But then again, you have to take into account the LLv34 pilots who fly the G-6. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
With the not-so-popular planes even a handful of pilots will skew the K/D results. Which your calculations don't take into account, like you said.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Hans,
I am guessing that the K/D for the German planes is so high because we LW pilots are just superior... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, some of the planes ranking high in K/D are flown by pilots dedicated to the particular plane. High K/D does not automatically imply that the plane is that lethal in the hands of an average pilot.
About the Ta152. It's a very deadly plane in the hands of a experienced pilot. It's a perk plane, yup so most fly it more carefully than other planes what gives a high K/D as result. But the absolut numbers (that u dislike so much) are really not that impressive: 700 something kills... that's practically irrelevant. So you'll probably find only quite good pilots in 152s that have a high K/D in other planes as well!!
Also most G2 kills (1300) are done by dedicated LW/109 pilots who know their plane by heart. Small number of good pilots bring high K/D ratio.
The CHog oth has 26700 kills!! So, many, many pilots are flying it - with a great dispersion in pilot skills. And still it's No.5 in your list! I think you can't judge a plane by K/D only - you have to take the absolut numbers of kills into account!!
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~Kirin~
(http://members.tripod.de/Sir_Kirin/Sig_Ta152f150.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Ok, since Camo throwing around numbers I will do the same... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
9./JG54 has 187 kills in the Ta152-H1
9./JG54 has been killed 24 times in Ta152-H1
187:24 = approx. K/D of 7.8
(one member of JG54 has a K/D of 0.5 in 152 - taken into account still (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
substract JG54 kills in Ta from all kills..
Ta152 has 515 kills against all models.
All models have 209 kills against Ta152.
= K/D (without Gruenherzträger) of 2.5 approx... still very high - but there some more Ta152 aces like Mitsu (70:5) etc...
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hmmm.... nice numbers guys, now let me try:
There is no such thing as a lethal aircraft, only lethal pilots.
<S>
Snorkey out
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Lets see right now I am running a 2+ ratio in the D-9 with around 130 or so kills. I am 30-4 in the Ta-152 as well for the month. What I see in LW figures are very dedicated pilots flying those machines. Then again take out the newbie numbers for hte Chog Spit 9 and N1K and I bet it would be more skewed then the LW numbers.
The truth is you have to earn a kill in a LW craft, the others it is point and click.
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(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Sachsenberg - true take out the newbies/aces out of the count and numbers will be squewed for every plane but Camos guys for example account for 1/3 of all G2 - so they're quite relevant. My squad accounts for 1/4 of all 152 kills - also quite relevant! Both planes have quite few total kills - a small dedicated group scores most of em.
In the CHog stats oth you won't find one particular group to set the killnumbers, K/D... kills & deaths are spread amongst many pilots - a huge group including every level of skill! That's the amazing part. A large number of players flying that plane while holding a quite high K/D!! Here the plane is the bigger factor than the individual pilot.
I agree on the point & click interface for those well known planes... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Let's be fair. Fighter vs Fighter Stats:
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Tou15FvF-mid.GIF)
Now, when the top 10 charts come out, see how the top 10 pilots did in each aircraft and compare that to the aircraft's overall numbers. Not many of the aircraft in AH are all that bad. Just some that are more difficult and require more experience. The LW would have you believe that its their planes, but I have a tendancy to think several of the US planes and the Italian craft are the toughest.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 04-30-2001).]
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How can you check your kill ratio in a particular plane?Is it listed on the Scores page?..SirLoin out<S!>
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sheesh... there are dedicated skilled pilots in evey plane popular or no. If you take the skilled guys out of the mix you get different results. the lw certainly has no more skilled guys than anyone else. they just claim to be more than anyone else.
lazs
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not true lazs
are you telling me that the p47-d25 or the 190-a5 dont have a higher percentage of sorties flown by better players? Because i centainly think they do.
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I don't Zigrat, I just think they're more apt to tell you when they're in the "acceptable" planes.
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Originally posted by Fatty:
I don't Zigrat, I just think they're more apt to tell you when they're in the "acceptable" planes.
Tis a shame when we've come to this type of 'Aircraft Political Correctness'.
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No matter what plane I take up it's a killer.
Course it's normally me that gets killed.
But a kill is a kill right?
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Heh heh, I think I'm bringing the P51B average down.
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When I fight, I fight pilots.
The plane is just an indication of the way he may try to fight me.
Pilots who blame the plane the enemy flies for the outcome of the fight, are lesser pilots, no matter if they think they are flying a more acceptable plane.
I fly that "special" plane because I love it. I know many people respect me because I fly it most, and I fly it well. But what if I prefered a chog or if my favorite plane was a Nik? those same people would hate me. No matter how good I would be in it.
I flew a spitfire for almost a tour because I had problems killing spit pilots in my P-38. so I decided to fly the damn thing and find its weaknesses. after many good fights in it, I never got nearly as many <S>'s as when I fly my P-38 (in wich I actually do better overall)
Whats the big deal?
should I respect more those who fly a jug or a 190a8? frankly, I dont give a diddly.
I know a good pilot when I fight one. Be it flying a nik or a damn 202.
I give a good <S> only when I think that person deserves it.
What if its a super ACM genius flying a "dweeb" f4u-c who fights a dumb piece of toejam trying to gain acceptance by flying a P-47 or a 109f4?
MOST PROBABLY, the dork flying the "underdog" plane will press / and type NO SKILL CHOG DWEEB LEARN TO FLY A REAL PLANE
lol
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Aye animal I appreciated the comment last night from ya, you had more E then I did and were outdistancing me in that 38, I just hit zoom squeezed off 15 or so rounds of MG 151/20 and I was able to hit you at D600 I think. I was out of WEP used it in the heated furball over there for sometime, and was OMW back to base which was being overrun by a chitload of Bish's. Needless to say I got vulched on landing.
At any rate <S> it is very rare to recieve compliments, and even rarer to recieve check 6 calls (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I also want to thank the guys that did give me 6 calls. I now try and fly around the guys I know that give them out, sometimes we cannot see everything but having someone else helping you out is a bonus.
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(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 04-30-2001).]
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WTG Animal!
I had a waffle tell me I had no skill after I shot him down while flying a F4U-1C.
My reply was...How much more skill did you have for letting me get a gun solution?
Anytime you let any plane get a gun solution on you, then you made a mistake somewhere along the way, period, end of story. Irrespective of the planes being flown.
Man, some folks take this hobby way too seriously.
Cobra
(who makes that mistake wayyy too many times..hehe)
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I agree Cobra. It's your fault if you get shot down, even by the "dreaded" chog. Would you believe I've been shot down by the chog only twice this tour? In 85 sorties, they have gotten me 2 times.
It's the pilot. I have always said that and until it's proven otherwise, I will continue to say that.
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Launched from a CV last night near an enemy port we were trying to take. I saw a strong red bar on the dar, and suspecting GV's I launched in a C with bombs and rocks.
When I got there I found a couple of enemy fighters, a dead VH, and all ack gone. One was a Spit turning with a couple guys, and I made one pass through the mess and plucked it. The base was ours IF we could get a gooney there and IF the fighters from the nearby base could be taken out. I decided to move toward the nearest enemy base to engage what appeared to be launching fighters.
When I arrived I dropped my two bombs on the hangar- no kill, but it was softer now. Two fighters had launched- an F4U and an La7. They were smart and stayed in the ack umbrella while they climbed. They also spread out a bit so that if I attacked one the other was in a position to get me from behind. I let them climb a bit, waiting for one of them to make a mistake.
The La7 made the mistake first. He must have sensed we were near getting the base, so he broke for the port. He had a full head of steam up, and must have figured I would now go for the easy kill on the F4U. He was wrong. I had 5K of alt at least and a full head of steam. I set the C in a long, shallow dive to his 6. I got to about 1.4 and the distance stabilized. Realizing that I needed alt more than I needed to be stuck low if he reversed I started a shallow climb. As the counter rolled slowly up he decided to climb for his move.
This was his second mistake. I simply leveled out and then went into a gentle lag pursuit in his vertical climb. I had enough smash left to nail him if he didnt't go any more vertical. He obviously thought I wouldn't have enough zoom to get close, and was trying to milk everything he could out of his climb. He hung motionless in front of my four hispanos, me closing slowly but surely... at 650 I opened up. He tried to spin down, but it was too late. His tail neatly parted company, and he spun helplessly into the ocean.
About then I looked back. The C that had launched before was just now catching up. I was low E and headed the other way, but I knew our gooney was near the base and this guy had to be delayed or stopped. I turned toward him, dropped the nose, and WEP'd. I had 250mph or so indicated, he was above with a full head of steam, and I had a choice- if he's smart he blows by me and kills the goon at the base. If he is smart he goes up and plays the E game and kills me. I decide that any gun solution I get I will take, and gamble I will win.
He drops his nose on me from about 1K advantage, and I know he is going to HO. I meet him, guns blazing, and blow his wings off- of course, he took mine, too. Still, I had kept him away from the goon, and that was what I wanted.
Now, here's the point- two of those guys could easily have avoided me, and in all likelihood killed me (especially if they'd worked together). I would have killed that La7 from the same distance in a .50 armed bird, he just let me get too close to his 6. The C had every advantage he needed to kill me and went for the bad shot anyway. Whose fault was it, me for flying an uber plane, or them for giving me the opportunity to do what I did?
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WELL IM NOT SO SHUR ....i had my best run in a la7 11 kills .... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..and i was drunk as askunk haveing a great time ...so i say its the alcohal (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)....ok maybe then it must of been pur luck ??....no ??? well then it must be the pilot then .. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)...ok whishfull thinking on my part ...lol
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DRILL
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This is the ONLY EXTREMELY lethal plane in Aces High.. but it seems to ONLY attack RAM...
(http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=MMPAviation&ID_Topic=2&ID_Message=8)
hehehehehe
-SW
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fatty,
well thats obviously true. In a fight between a p47 and (example) a spitfire, if the jug loses he is more likely to spout "hispano dweeb" or some other saying than the spitfire pilot is to say "jug dweeb"
but i still stand by my statement. and im not talking about plane nationality loyalty becvause it applies to all countries.. zekes, jugs, 190a8s, etcera
the guys in the more difficult planes are the better pilots, on average. which is why overall k/d cannot be used as an indication of aircraft quality.
from the stats you would think the p47 d25 is vastly better than the p47d30, but thats not the case, its the pilots who are flying that bird that make the difference (in this case drex and hanzo)
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I think I'll add a line to the "Top 10" lists. It can be "Everyone Else". Basically, pull the top pilot's stats out and see how the statistics fare.
AKDejaVu
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Deja, is there a way to see who has the highest fighter k/d now with the new stats or does one have to go thru the list manually?
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I have a spreadsheet that compiles the list. It will take about a day to run once the tour is over. It has about 1500 IDs in it.
AKDejaVu
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The stats are right there, Zigrat. The d25 is a better dogfighter than the d30. The 30 is a better ground pounder.
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rgr. The monthly list you do is for highest k/d per fighter. I was just curious who had the highest overall k/d, whether they were "top 100" or not.
Thanks for what you do for the community.
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Ah... I don't know if that's possible or not Apache. I've heard people state what other people's position was in regards to hit % and so forth, but have not seen how its done.
My stuff doesn't do cumulative stats... only individual aircraft stats. That's pretty much what I'll stick to.
AKDejaVu
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ok, thanks. Guess I will just have to do a lot of clicking, huh? hehe
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I'd start by checking on ypsilon's stats. It may save you quite a bit of time.
AKDejaVu
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I just did, Good grief!! Guess that answers that.
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Originally posted by Li`l Snorkey:
There is no such thing as a lethal aircraft, only lethal pilots.
<S>
Snorkey out
Amen Snorkey. This is interesting:
Arena
P-47D-30 1877:2903 kill:death
P-47D-25 1653:1289
56th FG
P-47D-30 19.5% of all kills
P-47D-25 13.6%
Drex <-- just one guy
P-47D-25 20.1%
Some people gotta break the curve. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 05-01-2001).]
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I considered the "ace" theory and I dissmissed it. I could have graded the planes on a curve (add them all up, delete the top 20% and the bottom 20%, and use the remaining stats as your sample), but that would mean having to cross reference the kill stats to EVERY pilot in the game.
There is no way in hell I am doing that by hand.
I just figured every plane has it's dweebs and it's aces, so it ought to balance out anyways.
Hans.
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Drex <-- just one guy
P-47D-25 20.1%
I always thought him to equal a whole squadron really...
// fats
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If we discount the final day of the last tour, I had a 2 to 1 in the C.202 and 6 kills and 3 deaths.
With the final day I have 6 kills and 7 deaths in the C.202. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif)
On the last day I was in a bad mood and logged on to blow off some steam. I stupidly selected the C.202 as my "blow off steam kite" and proceeded to fly extremely stupidly. Ask AlgyFT how successfully I blew off steam.
FWIW, if any of you ever log on the blow off some steam, select a kite that can kill reasonably easily, the N1K2, F4U-1C, La7, Spitfire IX, Typhoon and Fw190D-9 all sem to work.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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AKs have over 33% of all F6F kills (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu