Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tgnr2001 on December 03, 2002, 10:26:09 PM
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I want some of those AP shells some folks have that take out an osti with one hit almost every time. I hit an osti with 7 AP shells from my pnzr before it popped tonight :( Is it really true that some folks can place a shell right in the perfect spot every time to hit the fuel tank from 28 out?
Or maybe I got it backwards... maybe my pnzr is fine but I need to pay someone to get a special shield for my osti?
Seriously.. is it just a matter of placement or is there some other variable, or is there some perk shell I can get if I pay off the right people :confused:
tgnr
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it's all about where you hit it.
An osty is just as tough as a panzer. The front armor is extremly hard to get through, to get a good chance for a kill you need to hit the side or rear armor.
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Thanks... now if you can just explain to me how to aim for the side or rear from faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrr away, I'd greatly appreciate it :D Seems like even when it takes two hits, I still lose my turret on the first shot.
I think it's a conspiracy. :) It's just like when I realized that people were calling me paranoid behind my back.. I never heard them, but I knew they were... every one of them.. even people I passed on the street. :eek:
tgnr
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Originally posted by tgnr2001
Thanks... now if you can just explain to me how to aim for the side or rear from faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrr away, I'd greatly appreciate it :D Seems like even when it takes two hits, I still lose my turret on the first shot.
tgnr
I Totally Agree, Had A Nice GV Fight On The Pizza Map Last Night.
Crashboy And Myself Were Defending V102 Against 4 to 6 Of The Mayhem Squad (Knight's).
Was A Great Fight But Something Was Seriously Wrong First Death On My Part Was From A Pnzr Against My Ostie From So Far Away On Full Zoom You Could Barely Make Out The Dot.
Same Guy Killed Crashboy Many Times 1 Ping Hits Upon Spawning (Pretty Acurate From That Far Away Is roadkill) Especially Since When Fireing A Pnzr The Gun Bounces Up & Down Like Jenna Jamison On Overtime.
So I Spawned In From Another Base And Set Up Camp On A Bluff With My Pnzr Listened With Headphones For Enemy Snackies, Scanning On Full Zoom Finding My Targets Are In Front Of Me Wiggling Their Ass's Headed To The VH.
OK This Is Where Everyone Says You Get The Soft Spot. OK So I Fire Somehow I Get A Hit On The First Shot Small Sprite (not a good hit) Adjust Get 3 more Yes 3 More Lg. Sprite Hits On The Back Deck Where The Turret Meets.
This Boy Is Still Rolling Finally 4th Good Hit Stops Him 5th Kills Him.
This Was From Range 20 and Closer By The Way, We Did This For 2 Hours Till An M16 Comes In And Hits Me From 3 States Away And Disables Me With 2 Pings Taking Out My Guns And Engine.
So I Sit There And Watch Him Get Closer Till He Is Point Blank Unloading Every Shell Into Me Never Killing Me WTF Is That All About He Can Totally Disable Me From The Next Map But Does No Damage From Point Blank In My Sides.
A Few Times I Was Behind Pnzr's With An Ostie Hitting Them Minimum 15 Times Good Hits Before They Would Disable Or Explode Yet I Would Be In The Tower From 1 Ping From The Next Solar System.
So I Await All The Ballistic Experts That Are Going To Tell Me Tragectary Angles And Ballistic Principles And How Angles And Distance Enables 37mm Rounds To Achieve Super Powers, Or How The AK's Coded It That Way, Or Maybe I Just Suck That Bad, Whatever The Case May Be.
Something Is Porked And NO I Dont Have The Film.
Last Thing In Life I Think About Is Filming My Victories So I Can Whack Off To Them Later Like Some Of These (Get Into This Game Waaaay To Much) Guys Do.
Hopefully Enough Of These Posts Will Someday Get This Checked Out, And Maybe Someday (which I doubt) I'll Remember To Hit alt+r And Capture This Phenomenon.
OK Whine Of The Week Is Over, Please Exit To The Left And Dispose Of Your Refuse In The Proper Recepticles.
This Has Been A JustJim Whine Assosiated With Justsqueak Productions.
Brought To You By The Numbers 3 , 7 and By The Letter S
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The GV's in AH can be very frustrating as there seems to be no consistancey in the damage model.
I'm beginning to think that it has something to do with connection/cpu speeds of the players. I'm running a P-IV, 1.3ghz, 512ram, and 128 video card, and I'm connected via cable modem.
For example, I lose every air collision I'm involved in, while the other fella flys on without damage. I've even been hit from the rear (unseen) and received catostrophic damage (no gun hits, just the big hit, and the con flying away).
When strafing a GV (Osty or panzer)in a plane with 4 hispano 20mm cannon, the best I can do is to get them smoking, and maybe disable their tracks. I have never been able to damage their main gun, or kill them outright, even with successive gun passes.
However, when I am in said GV(Osty or panzer), a few pings from the 50cal of a P-51 will usually disable my main gun right away. I've been killed many times by a single strafing pass of a 50cal plane.
Though it can be maddening, I accept this as a fluke of the game, and usually take off with a couple of bombs loaded for these hard skinned targets, and generally stay out of a GV.
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A little cap-happy there eh JustJim? :)
Like Innominate said, it's all about where you place the shell. And for those of you firing 37 mm ANTI AIR shells at tanks, don't be too surprised if you can't penetrate thick armour too effectively.
Let's take a look at the armour specifications of the 37mm Ostwind Flakpanzer and the Panzer IV H.
Ostwind Armour, mm/angle:
Front Turret: 25/37
Front Superstructure: 80/10
Front Hull: 80/12
Side Turret: 25/30
Side Superstructure: 30/0
Side Hull: 30/0
Rear Turret: 25/30
Rear Superstructure: 20/11
Rear Hull: 20/9
Turret Top / Bottom: open
Superstructure Top / Bottom: 12/85-90
Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 25/round
Panzer IV H Armour, mm/angle:
Front Turret: 50/11
Front Upper Hull: 80/10
Front Lower Hull: 80/12
Side Turret: 30/26
Side Upper Hull: 30/0
Side Lower Hull: 30/0
Rear Turret: 30/10
Rear Upper Hull: 20/12
Rear Lower Hull: 20/9
Turret Top / Bottom: 10/83
Upper Hull Top / Bottom: 12/85
Lower Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 50/0
Hull armour thicknesses are about the same since the Ostwind II actually has a Panzer IV chassis, but note that the turret armour on the Ostie much less than the Panzer.
The Panzer IV H fires a 75 mm KwK 40. Take a look at the armour penetration for a square hit at various ranges:
(http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~wilson/penetrationtable.jpg)
An AP round impacting at 90 degrees will penetrate 64 mm from a range of 2000 meters (~2200 yards)!
I would say that most GV engagements occur at less than 1000m (1100 yards). What this means is that if you're in an Ostie, and a Panzer IV puts an AP shell into any part of you other than your front hull plate at not-too-shallow an angle, you're probably off to Ostwind heaven, or at least taken out of commission.
On the other hand, Ostwinds fire 37 mm AA shells, meaning that they are mostly HE or incindiery, not armour piercing. I would be quite surprised if they could penetrate 30 mm of steel armour plate except at perhaps point blank range. So, I wasn't surprised upon reading JustJim's story that he had to pound a Panzer from the rear 10 times or so before he would deal any real damage. Ostwinds were never made to have any particular anti-armour capability.
The telescopic sight on the Panzer in AH is marked for up to 3200 yards, but it's almost impossible to hit a moving target at that range, since wind will affect the shell trajectory quite a bit if you're that far out, especially noticable if you're firing directly crosswind. Also, damage beyond 2000 yards is reduced dramatically. I usually try to advance to 2000 yards or less to get a decent shot on target. I've yet to see an Ostie that hasn't popped if I get a good hit on his side. From the front you've pretty much got to go for the turret. 80 mm of sloped frontal hull armour is hard to break.
As for .50 cal taking out tanks, it's possible. The turret top armor is very thin, and .50 can penetrate it (apparently it's possible to kill a Soviet BMP with a .50 cal MG). It was also not unheardof for aircraft to bounce their bullets off the ground (ideally paved ground) in front of a tank in order to ricochet the bullets and hit the paper-thin underbelly armour. Doing so successfully would be effective in damaging the engine. Whether HTC has modelled bouncing bullets into the game, I'm not sure. It would be interesting to test though.
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Lotsa interesting info.. but...... doesn't explain why it takes me up to 7 hits to kill osti when I'm in a pnzr using AP shells... but I consistently get sent to tower with 1 shot from their pnzr to my osti when fiting some folks.
tgnr
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Heh, well, everyone seems to be claiming that when THEY drive a tank, it takes them a hundred shots to kill anything, but when anyone ELSE hits THEM, they die instantly. Obviously someone is exaggerating here. :)
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Quote:"Heh, well, everyone seems to be claiming that when THEY drive a tank, it takes them a hundred shots to kill anything, but when anyone ELSE hits THEM, they die instantly. Obviously someone is exaggerating here."
Lol, sounds like you're one of the lucky majority we can't seem to kill short of a 500lb bomb. ;)
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Originally posted by tgnr2001
Lotsa interesting info.. but...... doesn't explain why it takes me up to 7 hits to kill osti when I'm in a pnzr using AP shells... but I consistently get sent to tower with 1 shot from their pnzr to my osti when fiting some folks.
tgnr
It's all in the placement of the shell. When in combat always, always aim for the turret of both the ostie and panzer. The ideal hit is drectly on top or right down the barrell. yes it is possible from 32 range and beyond. Just watch where your flash hits and make minor adjustments to get it to flash on top of the turret or even a side shot to the turret is best. Never aim for anything else unless you are in a hurry and don't have time.
When firing form long range in a panzer, just before you fire your shell make a mental note of where you are placing your crosshairs, then after you fire your shell zoom all the way in 100% max and follow the shell until impact and you will see where it hits much better. then zoom back out to where you were before and make minor adjustments from your previous shot. Takes a lot of practice to perfect and there are little tricks you'll figure out as you do it but it does work.
With that said....the damage model is all screwy in my opinion. The 20mm cannons on my plane are way more leathal against any GV than my 75mm AP Panzer rounds could ever be. :) Go figure! (bullets bouncing around in the hull maybe?)
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Originally posted by Ecliptik
Heh, well, everyone seems to be claiming that when THEY drive a tank, it takes them a hundred shots to kill anything, but when anyone ELSE hits THEM, they die instantly. Obviously someone is exaggerating here. :)
Although I may be prone to exaggeration in some areas :D These were actual counts.
tgnr
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Originally posted by discod
It's all in the placement of the shell. When in combat always, always aim for the turret of both the ostie and panzer. The ideal hit is drectly on top or right down the barrell. yes it is possible from 32 range and beyond. Just watch where your flash hits and make minor adjustments to get it to flash on top of the turret or even a side shot to the turret is best. Never aim for anything else unless you are in a hurry and don't have time.
When firing form long range in a panzer, just before you fire your shell make a mental note of where you are placing your crosshairs, then after you fire your shell zoom all the way in 100% max and follow the shell until impact and you will see where it hits much better. then zoom back out to where you were before and make minor adjustments from your previous shot. Takes a lot of practice to perfect and there are little tricks you'll figure out as you do it but it does work.
With that said....the damage model is all screwy in my opinion. The 20mm cannons on my plane are way more leathal against any GV than my 75mm AP Panzer rounds could ever be. :) Go figure! (bullets bouncing around in the hull maybe?)
Some real advice.. thank you :) tgnr
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I think, if someone has hit your left-right track wenn you're in an ostie/panzer, you'd have to be able to fix it cause there are spare tires on it, aren't there? :confused:
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Originally posted by tgnr2001
Lotsa interesting info.. but...... doesn't explain why it takes me up to 7 hits to kill osti when I'm in a pnzr using AP shells... but I consistently get sent to tower with 1 shot from their pnzr to my osti when fiting some folks.
tgnr
I agree totally. Yes I fully understand about round placement. but I have had situations where Ive blasted away at an osti at literally point blank range and from the side and rear with multiple good hits all over the place, including the turret. only to have him wheel his gun around and in one or two short busts in the FRONT of my tank take me out.
and when I say point blank I mean POINT BLANK. as in easily within 50 feet. and by multiple good hits I mean 4-5 hits using AP rounds.
BTW if they give us the Tiger I sure hope they also give us moble anitank guns as opposed to shermans. LOL a Sherman was no match for the tigers unless they got behind em and hit em at practically at point blank range. Plus the Tigers were deisels and the shermans ran on gasoline. which means the shermans went up in flames alot more easily then the tigers. heh they didnt call the shermans "Purple Heart" boxes for nothing.
Drediock
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Well, Tigers and especially Tiger II's were true MBT's. Shermans were light tanks. A Tiger versus a T-34 is a different story.
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wasn't the T-34 develloped in the Cold War?? :confused: or was it the T-37? or T-40??
...never mind....
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No, the T-34 was the primary Russian tank used against the Nazis. It is generally considered to be the best tank of WWII, because of its very advanced sloped armor design which allowed it to stand up against the best German armor. However, they had poor radios which hampered communication, and that did nothing to help the already poor Russian tank tactics.
The most common Soviet cold war tank was the T-55, and later the T-72.
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Actually the T-34 was arguably the best EARLY war tank of the war because of it's sloped armor. Tigers ate Soviet tanks for breakfast on the steppe until the Soviets started building better Tank Desteroyers (the SU-152, I believe). At the battle of Kursk the T-34s (they weren't upgunned to the 85mm yet) had to close to point blank range to kill Tigers with side and rear hits.
Anyway, as has been stated before, the damage modeling seems to be screwy. However, I have noticed that if you hit certain spots on some vehicles, they die much faster. I was in a M8 shooting other M8s, and I noticed that if you hit the M8 on the extreme front on the left or right side (I don't remember which side), you can kill it a LOT faster (~2 hits). I assume this accounts for the driver being killed, but I don't know.