Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ike 2K# on December 05, 2002, 02:57:22 AM
-
Should Aces High include jets and bombers from Korean War like the F-86 (all variants), MiG-15 (2 variants), F-80/84, B-29?
-
no.
-
hmm, a B-29 still fits in that list. The B-29 was used to WWII in pacific theater and B-29 still fits in the list that should be added in A.H.
-
If it didn't blow something up in ww2, it doesn't belong.
-
Exactly, Innominate.
-
no
-
Sure, a korean war arena would be cool, so would a wwI arena .
-
cant those types just play mig alley?
-
Interesting how this question in a regular time basis appears in this forum, about every 2 months.
Nothing against jets (beside that they are for sissies :p) but I think HTC has once defined that they don't want to mess up with another time period except WWII. The intention is to hold up the high standard of this Simulation.
And I must say that I agree with that, and I'm very satisfied with it.
sailor
-
Re:
If it didn't blow something up in ww2 (the B-29), it doesn't belong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Response:
B-29 blew up 2 cities in Japan with nukes During the final months of WWII and I think B-29 deserves to be in A.H. I think A.H. should add a nuke weapon that was used in B-29 in A.H. bomb arsenals. Dont even say that nukes are for sissies because nuke was still part of WWII and it was an instrument that ended Pacific Theather in WWII
-
Once the WWII planeset is complete and ALL POSSIBLE flight model issues, skin enhancements, frame rate tweaks, strategic enhancements, WWII ground vehicles and infantry modeling is resolved or complete... I say go for it!
-
Re:
If it didn't blow something up in ww2 (the B-29), it doesn't belong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Response:
B-29 blew up 2 cities in Japan with nukes During the final months of WWII and I think B-29 deserves to be in A.H. I think A.H. should add a nuke weapon that was used in B-29 in A.H. bomb arsenals. Dont even say that nukes are for sissies because nuke was still part of WWII and it was an instrument that ended Pacific Theather in WWII
-
You didn't just suggest the B-29. You suggested the Sabe, Shooting Star and MiG jets. They did not blow anything up in WW2.
-
forget the jets
-
Instead of a huge revamp, there's room for just adding a couple new planes (like the Mig 15, Sabre, etc) and having them inactive in the MA but available for special events (like Korea based weekend events).
I know planes aren't free, but if someone at HTC is up to doing it, their work shouldn't be crapped all over by the people here on the BBS because it doesn't have to be active in the MA.
-
Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
You didn't just suggest the B-29. You suggested the Sabe, Shooting Star and MiG jets. They did not blow anything up in WW2.
P-80 blew up a lot of top fighter/test pilots during WWII, most notably Richard Bong & it flew a few operational missions, but saw no combat...
-
can we have nuke weapons in A.H. bomb arsenal????
-
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
can we have nuke weapons in A.H. bomb arsenal????
Look, you're sort of new here. Don't you think it'd be a good idea to just sit back and get a feel for the place before you get up on the soapbox. In plain english: LURK MORE.
Now that I've got that out of the way, why don't you try to bring an argument to light as it's obvious you'll get nowhere with this approach. So, what would A-bombs bring to AH as a GAME[/b]? Enlighten us.
-
Besides - you would only get TWO A-Bombs - gonna be a HELL of a fight to see who gets to drop them. :D
What we REALLY need is the VIETNAM THEATER in AH.
THUDS, PHANTOMS, BUFFS from Land Bases - CRUSADERS, PHANTOMS, INTRUDERS & SCOOTERS from CV's vs. MIG 17s, 19s & 21's and SA-2's.
Lets go DOWNTOWN folks!
-
Ike, you seem new. I've been lurking on this BB for a while, so I'll fill you in on some things. I'm by no means a BB expert, but I'll give things a shot.
There are people pushing (or whining, depending on your POV) to get the B-29A into AH. Do a BB search if you're interested in reading the thread. The general drift of things also seems to be that an A-bomb would be too unbalancing for the MA. But I agree that the 29 would be cool to see someday.
These are all just BB discussions, meaning there's been no official word or even rumors from HTC (that i know of).
Don't forget that the AH planeset is far from complete, and constantly in development. I don't think HTC would leave the B-29 out, so I hope it's just a matter of when they get around to it. I think there's a lot of higher-priority gameplay stuff out there first.
As for the non-WWII planes... i vote no.
-
RE from andijg
Besides - you would only get TWO A-Bombs - gonna be a HELL of a fight to see who gets to drop them.
What we REALLY need is the VIETNAM THEATER in AH.
THUDS, PHANTOMS, BUFFS from Land Bases - CRUSADERS, PHANTOMS, INTRUDERS & SCOOTERS from CV's vs. MIG 17s, 19s & 21's and SA-2's.
Lets go DOWNTOWN folks!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my response:
whoa, Korea theater would be more appropriate for AH since engagements for fighters are still close-in fight rather than BVR (beyond visual range) fight. What everyone wants here is like fighting in swords than using machine guns in ground battle.
-
?!
-
Ike, if you will re-read your history books you will find most kills made in the Vietnam war was with the AIM-9 Sidewinder. Because of the Lousy weather & limited Technology of the time the Rules of Engagement stated you had to Visually identify a target before you could fire a missle. Doesn't sound much like FALCON 4.0 does it. ;)
NO GUTS, NO GLORY :D
-
I figure you can count the number of BVR kills in Vietnam on one hand. And I think one or two of those were fratricide.
You guys have a serious misconception on how effective missles were during the early days. You've been playing Falcon 4.0 WAYYYY too much.
For the entire Vietnam war the percentage of missle hits of correctly fired missles were in the 10%-15% range. And that doesn't count malfunctions of missles that never fired (which was quite common) or missles that were blatently fired out of parameters.
Another example of early missle effectiveness is the Arab-Israeli Six day war (same period as Vietnam). Over 75% of all air to air kills were achieved with guns.
-
Closest you can get to a B-29 without adding to the US armarment...
is the PE-8 it can carry a nuke..
-
How about a Civil War arena? We could observe each other from ballons... ;)
-
No.
The B-29 would be ok as a high cost perk bomber. Nukes would be ok for an insanely high cost, ie an average of one or two nukes used in the MA per week or so, so that the average player is inside the MA on average once per month when a Nuke is used. That would price it in the order of 10,000 perks.
-
Originally posted by Andijg
Ike, if you will re-read your history books you will find most kills made in the Vietnam war was with the AIM-9 Sidewinder. Because of the Lousy weather & limited Technology of the time the Rules of Engagement stated you had to Visually identify a target before you could fire a missle. Doesn't sound much like FALCON 4.0 does it. ;)
You are aware that many of the US fighters of the early Vietnam period only had a gun if an external gun pod was mounted, because "guided missiles made guns obsolete", aren't you? When the aircraft don't carry guns, of course most kills are going to be made with a missile. And the engagement requirements of the Sparrow ensured that the Sidewinder would be a more effective dogfighting weapon.
-
Don't remember all the details,....but....
366TFW "Gunfighters" so named because they mounted 20mm (i think) gun pods on their F4C Phantoms because fights were too close for missles. Can't remember either but I think the F4D came with 20mm under the nose for the same reason.
Found some stuff...
The 366th TFW moved to Da Nang AB and regained the 390th FS in October 1966. While at Da Nang, pilots noted they were missing opportunities to shoot down enemy MiGs because the F-4C lacked a cannon and its missiles were ineffective at short ranges. So wing maintainers mounted an external 20-millimeter Gatling gun pod on the F-4Cs, and in less than a month the wing’s pilots had scored four MiG kills. The gun pod innovation and the MiG kills that followed earned the wing the nickname it carries today, the “Gunfighters.” During this period, the wing earned a Presidential Unit Citation for shooting down 11 enemy aircraft in a three-month period.
AirScrew
-
Shiva, the F-4 Phantom was about the only Fighter A/C that didn't have a gun (unless gun pod mounted). Several of the bombers didn't.
THOSE THAT DID:
F-8 Crusader - 4x20mm
F-105 THUD - 20mm Vulcan (Internal)
F-100 Super Sabre - 4x20mm
F-5 Freedom Fighter - 2x20mm
A-4 Skyhawk - 2x20mm
A-1 Skyraider - 4x20mm
B-52 Buff - 4x.50 cal mg's (in tail)
A-3 Skywarrior - 2x20mm (in tail)
MIG-17 3x23mm
MIG-19 3x30mm
THOSE THAT DIDN'T:
F-4 Phantom (Till the AF "E" Model came out)
A-6 Intruder
A-5 Vigilante
MIG-21
As for why most of the kills were made by missiles, especially the Sidwinder, you have to take in Vermillion's reasonings, plus the factors I mentioned together.
Another reason, at least as far as the Navy is concerened, is when a majority of the fleets fighters were Crusaders (with Guns) there weren't that many MIG's around. By the time the fleet had switched over to the Phantom (no gun) all they had to shoot was missiles.
Last reason, the Navy prefered the Sidewinder to the Sparrow as it was more reliable. The Air Force prefered the Sparrow which at the time had a very low reliability rate. Eventually they also switched to the Sidewinder which is why most kills in Vietnam (linked with the above reasons) were with that missile.
-
what about ww2 flight sim do you not understand
-
well,it is not a bad idea,,,,like in air warrior 3,,they had a korean war area with f86 and migs,,corsairs,,,stuff like that to fly,,it was fun,,and hardly used,,most people flew in the ww2 arena anyways,,but it was fun to try mach 1 jet fights,,black out city,,lol they had a ww1 arena too,,so you could go in and dog fight bi planes,,,i dout aces high will do this,,,but its not a bad idea
How about a Civil War arena? We could observe each other from ballons...
now that would be too much fun!!,,not!!,,hehehe i still think aces high should make the wright brothers plane a dive bomber!! 100lb bomb and one 7.62 machinegun:) j/k
-
Yes and No on the MiG21 not having a gun.
There were three basic varients of the MiG21 that saw combat during Vietnam.
MiG-21-F13 mounted a single NR-30mm cannon internally
MiG-21-PF(M) no internal gun. Gsh-23mm Centerline Gunpod available
MiG-21-MF mounted the 23mm cannon internally
-
this is WW2 arena..take ur Jet age somewhere else..I defntly dont want HTC working on that stuff while there is a tremendous amount of work to be done in the WW2 area....
This is a place for the Lovers of WW2 avaiton to fight..and Lord Knows this is my only long term relationship..heheheh
Love BiGB
xoxoxo
makes me laugh to see this stuff..Can we have Migs??..
Jets suk anyways...missles..wow..that sounds really challenging..point ur nose in general direction..Missle lock fire..kill....dam that sounds really boring behind a comptuter...
too much Top Gun for you...Iceman
um..somthing snappy like......Bring the B-25 H or the HE 129!!! I want a flying 75 mil cannon!!!!!!...lolo
-
What counts is my nuke, B-29, and P-80 proposal to be added in AH.
-
Jets suk anyways...missles..wow..that sounds really challenging..point ur nose in general direction..Missle lock fire..kill....dam that sounds really boring behind a comptuter...
well if it was korea war,,there wouldnt be any missle action,,it was all gun fights still
you ever play air warrior ?,,they had a good arena for jets and a hopped up version of a late yak and la7<~~cool plane,,,but i dont think they should be in the normal arena and i know high tech dont got time for that now
i know high tech having a hard anuff time with ww2 planes,,,still no liberator<~~most heavly produced bomber in ww2,,and they wont put it on,,because usa have more planes,,,well in real life,,usa did have more produced planes,,,,but!!,,it mite not be needed in here,,,,the pby catalina on othere hand,,was produced in many countries and even made in russia<~~would be a very good plane to put in there,flyin boat:) was slow,,but great tank buster and ship killer i guess,,and the pby catalina is proubly the only ww2 plane still in service to this date,,used to fight fires all across the usa<~~this plane out lasted them all,,and should be reconized
-
I'd like to see the B-29A eventually, but the nukes and P-80A have no place in this game. IMHO.
Right now there are far better things for HTC to spend effort on than the B-29A I think.
-
I personally think that we should leave HT alone and let him add what he wants and when :D Having said that, I would like to see personal controlled DD class ships, perked if needed, but it would give a use for some of the somewhats usless divebombers we have now that only carry small bombs. Just a idea.
Booky
-
Jets suk anyways...missles..wow..that sounds really challenging..point ur nose in general direction..Missle lock fire..kill....dam that sounds really boring behind a comptuter...
Obviously you have no friggin clue what your talking about. None at all. Period.
Do some research, read some good books. Cause its obvious you done played too much Falcon 4.0
-
Ya, leave them alone while they sit their fat a**es getting money from players and not spending more time improving the aging mid 1990's cheap graphics and not adding more planes like like the early yaks and migs from WWII
-
Originally posted by hyena426
...still no liberator<~~most heavly produced bomber in ww2...
Il2, the most heavily produced plane of WWII, was a bomber
Originally posted by hyena426
...and the pby catalina is proubly the only ww2 plane still in service to this date,,used to fight fires all across the usa<~~this plane out lasted them all,,and should be reconized...
PB4Y Privateers are still in service as fire bombers too (hawkins&powers aviation operates 4 of 'em), probably other WWII planes would be too, if they weren't more valuable as warbirds
(http://www.hawkinsandpowers.com/images/t121smoke.jpg)
-
Il2, the most heavily produced plane of WWII, was a bomber
was meaning in the usa sorry:D
most ww2 planes are gone,,they all been scrapped and barried under tons of ice,,lol we lucky any are left,,only thing that made the pby special and still is today,,,because its a flyin boat,,and many countries still have them to this day,,think finland still gots one they use too,,,sure would be a neat lookin bird in here,,and im sure it would get alot of use,,carried a good payload,,good long range,,but a little slow,, even the russians built the pby cat,,,and they sure do need a bigger bomber than the il2,,lol
-
pby cat:)
-
are u trying to change the subject hmm???
-
well once HT has done most of the WW2 stuff, ie a long time .yet I wouldnt mind seeing how a WW1 aircraft would handle in AH's FM and a few of the 50's jets could be cool to try but it would have to be a totally seperate arena.
personally id prefer to finish the WW2 planeset long before we have a korean setup.sure it would be great to see, but you couldnt put those planes in with ww2 planes, They really were from 2 eras(prop to jets) so why start all over again in a different era.At a scrape you could only count 2 or 3 jets real WW2 types, less if the have to see combat to qualify.And you would want sabres wouldnt you? :)
So sure its a nice idea but it cant be done without a totally new set of planes.Long way off is my guess.Still wouldnt it be fantastic if 1.11 came with a complete 8 or more aircraft set up for the 50's era? :)
like an add on mod ;)
btw BGBMAW from 1947 to late fifties they used jets but they still did dogfights with cannons.Im sure it wouldnt be a matter of 'lock missile and click' .we would have high speed dogfights too which would be fun im sure.Theres reasons HTC hasnt done it yet and it isnt because 'jets suck'.
-
i like the idea of a korean war,,but!! i know hightech dont got the time for it,,they have a hard time getting most of the ww2 birds in,,and they still aint close to having a full plane set
the prop planes in korea were mean too,,suped up verions of the yak and f4u are pretty fast,,,,and ike,,,i aint changing the subject,,im just getting realistic,,,we have a hard anuff time getting planes like the he111,,,the do217,,,the pby cat,,,liberator<~~if they are having a hard time adding them planes to a ww2 sim that were produced by the thousands,,,,,i really dout you will see any korean war planes,,lol maybe a few years down the road we mite,,thats is mite!! see that arena made:)
<~~still likes the idea of a civil war balloon war:),,lol j/k
-
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
are u trying to change the subject hmm???
Yes, because you're subject is retarded and played-out. Go make your own Korean war era jet fighter game and good luck doing it. Your attitude is arrogant at best.
-
lol i see we have some sensitive Jet Jockies here!!!!
BiGB....ooo leave our jets alone....you dont know what ur talking about...
you guys are swining your purses well
Hey..fukn chill out..I fly in real life..I love jets....
But I love Prop planes much more.........
Your Buddy Ike said he wanted Phantoms..Migs; ..blah blah Vietnam stuff....ye sthey did have missles ..and YES I STILL BELEIVE it was much more of a challengs for us in this game to only have cannons and MG's....
Vermillion...you place a pretty bold statement...I dont have a clue??
Well im sure your joking and not in full meaning..like I was when i Said Jets suck...hell i fly the 262 and the arado...I just don tliek flying 262 against zero's...lololo...and if you werent..I hate you and will shoot u in the bellybutton next time i see u in MA :p
Love BiGB
xoxo
and ..OMG..i would love a personal Perk Destroyer...:)
-
Originally posted by Andijg
Last reason, the Navy prefered the Sidewinder to the Sparrow as it was more reliable. The Air Force prefered the Sparrow which at the time had a very low reliability rate. Eventually they also switched to the Sidewinder which is why most kills in Vietnam (linked with the above reasons) were with that missile.
I was specific in my description of the Sparrow; the fundamental problem with it was that it is a semi-active homing missile, which requires that the firing aircraft keep the target painted by radar at all times, or the missile goes ballistic. With the typical maneuverability disparity between the US and Soviet iron, and the limitations imposed by the requirement to visually ID the target before firing, it was difficult for an American fighter to avoid having the NVA fighter skip outside the tracking cone long enough to make the Sparrow lose track.
One of the things that was done by pilots to get around the visual-ID requirement was to break the wing up when a target was spotted, and have your wingman do a max-throttle run past the target (minimizing vulnerability during the pass) while the wing leader sat back waiting for his wingman to radio back "That's a MiG", and then pop off a Sparrow or two. Under those conditions, the Sparrow was much more effective, but it wasn't often possible to perform that kind of ID pass without making both planes vulnerable due to their separation.
-
YES I STILL BELEIVE it was much more of a challengs for us in this game to only have cannons and MG's.... -BGB
You may be right, but make no mistake that there are great difficulties in launching the missiles in use during the Vietnam War. The Sidewinders in use during the Vietnam War were rear-aspect only which means you are forced to maneuver to the rear of your opponent before you can fire. A bullet is all-aspect and can shoot you down from any direction. And basically, this rear-aspect is a cone from the enemy's heat source (tailpipe) and this cone varies in radius and distance depending on altitude, speed and the manuevering of your opponent. If you are pulling any more than 5Gs in a fight, you can pretty much kiss any successful shot goodbye. And just as if you are too far away from the target, you can be too close to the target and that'll make the shot fail as well. (Compound this with the fact that the USAF had a one-time "cooling system" for the seeker head and so if you did not shoot in the several seconds after the system was activated, your Sidewinder would soon go dead and be useless. The USN was smarter about this though and didn't have that problem.) Heck, the Sidewinder wasn't slaved to any display on a HUD or combining glass and though you may have tone and be in parameters, you really didn't have a clue what it was looking at whether it be the tailpipe in front of you, a nearby friendly, reflection off a rice paddy or the sun above and it wasn't until later in the war that you could slave the seeker head to what the radar was locked onto. Firing the Vietnam era missiles is really not as simple as most people think and usually any comment otherwise is from someone who is really lacking any real knowledge of the combat. For some quick numbers, the seeker itself only has a 2.5 degree field of view and the AIM-9B's heart of the envelope is .75 NM and less than 20-degrees angle off. That's tail-chasing....no HO dweebs here. I won't even go into the Sparrow, but to make the argument simple, it was basically neutered by the ROE.
I don't know though, just pointing your nose at anything crossing your path and spraying a wall of lead doesn't seem so difficult to me. But that's just my opinion.
-
Actually what we have now is pretty much what a korean arena would be . Lgay7s, p51s and a 262 jet over every front base . Of course we wouldn't have titanium tailed p38s in a korean arena .
-
I wouldnt mind seeing the B29 as a..oh...75 perk ride?....give ya SOMEthin to use buff perks for..but to make use of all the eggs..yad need 15 minutes over a base to make all the passes necessary..DANGED unlikley....a 109 can up..grab to 20k and kill ya in between pass#1 and pass#2..seen it several times. Definitely no nukes (ok...200 points? heeh)
-
Originally posted by bj229r
I wouldnt mind seeing the B29 as a..oh...75 perk ride?....give ya SOMEthin to use buff perks for..but to make use of all the eggs..yad need 15 minutes over a base to make all the passes necessary..DANGED unlikley....a 109 can up..grab to 20k and kill ya in between pass#1 and pass#2..seen it several times. Definitely no nukes (ok...200 points? heeh)
B-29 is a lot faster than the heavies in AH - 357MPH@30,000' according to Joe Baugher and heavily armed as well. also it was a very rugged plane. a single 109 might not be able to bring down a Dreamboat:
P-61 bags a Superfort (http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/dreamboat/splash1.asp)
-
in AH anythin flying at 30k takes an age to attack a bomber whilst the b17 and others seem to fly like fighters at that alt.
fix that and then add the b29 otherwise you will have nothing but high altitude bombers flying around unimpeeded.We will be back to the 'bombers are too influential' arguements.Laz will post a whine a day about how they are ruining his furballs :)
-
I think we should have more water-planes in AH, like the Consolidated PBY Catalina, or others.
frank
-
Once HTC is totally done with ww2 planes (which would take bout 30 more years btw) and have upgraded graphics, sound etc. Korean war/WW1 (no fair gettin korea & not ww1) go ahead 'n add em :)
But seriously, HTC wants to keep this a WW2 sim, that means any plane added had to have at least shot at 1 enemy plane DURING WW2 era. (I think he says this somewhere, but I'm not sure?)
-
puke..i totally agree with you...
And i love how you give the degree of angles they can trace...Dam ..makes me happy to finnally learn soem stuff from these BB..soem of you gusy have smarts:)
Salute:)
Love BiGB
xoxo
-
What we REALLY need is the VIETNAM THEATER in AH.
Haha, I wish.
My dream for AH is to ride into a coastal base on the deck with about 20 Hueys armed to the hilt with rockets, bombs, miniguns, surfboards and loudspeakers, blaring Wagner's 'Ride of the Valkyries' so that anyone in range could hear.
:D
-
what bomber is this??????????
(http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/ru_monino_aircraft_tu4_02.jpg)
-
Looks like one of the "Ruskie" copies of the B-29.
TU-2 BULL ?
-
B-29 is a lot faster than the heavies in AH - 357MPH@30,000' according to Joe Baugher and heavily armed as well. also it was a very rugged plane. a single 109 might not be able to bring down a Dreamboat
ya,,a 109 mite not be able to catch that plane at high alts,,i heard after the enola gay dropped its nuke,,it had so much power it could out clime any ww2 fighter at the time,,lol
pby cat,,now that owuld be tons of fun!! and i too think thats the b29 russian copy,lol,,,the red kinda gives it away
-
Originally posted by Andijg
Looks like one of the "Ruskie" copies of the B-29.
TU-2 BULL ?
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats the Tu-4 Bull.
-
BGB, thanks for the kind reply. I have to admit that Vietnam is a much preferred topic for me than WW2. The numbers I provided was for an early AIM-9B, but I also left out gimbal limits and their limitations (how fast the seeker head can move and how far in order to track a target) and a few other things. I think it did provide an idea that these missiles were far from "wonder weapons." Interestingly though, even the "Last Of The Gunfighers" (i.e., the F-8 Crusader) scored most of its kills by far with sidewinders than guns.
-
Puke..i just moved into new home..Its very sweet in the sierra nevada foothills and over looks Central California Flatlands...
well i cant get cable..so i "had" to get Satelite..well i now have Discovery Wings...I just wacthed an episode on Missiles in Vietnam...Very good...
the ratio on staying alive aftr a 100 mision run was 1-3..and even as low as 1-2...DAM!!..thats not good..they said Korea had somthn liek a 1-10 and higher ration of living...thru a tour...
I always say..dam a wild weasel pilot has got soem serious nerves to continue to seek out SAM sites...omg..bless there souls and the ones flying now...
Dam what a mess war is....
Salute BiGB
xoxo
P.S. I take it there are no Flight Sims liek AH that are Jet era??
o yaa.. we hijaked this thread..lolo
P.P.S.. This message is for Bish & Rook...KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK!! Its the Knights Weapons Inspector..Let us in!!!!!!hehehe
:D
-
they said Korea had somthn liek a 1-10 and higher ration of living...thru a tour...
thats what usa said atleast,,according to the russians it was a 1 to 5 ratio in the mig favor,lol..usa said it was a 1 to 10 in a sabers favor,,,each country in that war says there fighter out flew eachothere,,lol<~~no one wants to admit there fighter is worse,, or pilots are worse,lolWRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats the Tu-4
not any diffrence,,its still a ripped off b29 is all:)
-
BGBMaw,
I wish I saw that program. I have the Disc Wings Ch and I'm sure I'll see it at some point. But some of those numbers are odd and I don't know what to make of them. It sounds like they are survival ratios rather than kill ratios as Hyena interprets. Still, that's a hard thing to quantify because the threats and tactics changed so much. Shoot, from most of 1968-1972 there were no missions into North Vietnam and so right there the chances of survival would have increased. But some of the dark days of 1965-66 would see high loss rates due to tactics of coming in low in range of small-arms and AAA. And then even the services would see differences because the USMC mainly flew in SVN whereas the USAF flew into both SVN and NVN and the USN mostly flew into NVN. Anyway, if you start finding an interest in the Vietnam War than I am very pleased. I find it incredibly fascinating and have been studying it for years.
Though the Vietnam War really is a jet war, it's not with the same technology we have today. I'd say the F-4 Phantom is most representative of the war and it was there from day-1 to the last day of that war. But it's first flight was in 1958 at a time when t.v. was black-&-white, slide rules were used instead of calculators as well as vacuum tube technology. Missiles combat was new too and in fact really designed to shoot down lumbering bombers. And the dogfights are no less exciting when you read about them. Cunningham/Drisoll's 3rd, 4th and 5th MiG kills (in one mission is classic) as is Curt Dose's chase of a MiG-21 over an enemy airfield at tree-top height and the fact that after his victory he's alive because some sharp ECM people jammed all enemy detonation (instead of tracking frequencies) as he was egressing.
I can really go on and on about this stuff. Do not even tempt me. Just ask Sour. I got blamed for talking to the ex F-4 Phantom Pilot about his old mount for too long at the last Aces High Convention museum visit which bored the prop-heads. lol
-
lolPuke...
Yes i find all wars very interseting...im just studying mucjh more ww2 just beacuase the scope is so large involving much mor eof the world..but I always want to be knowledgable on all World affairs...
Yes it was a survival ratio they talked about..ANd im sure you will see it on D wings..as i noticed they repeat the same programs frequently...
Just fifnished reading an Air Commando book..tracing history of Air Commandos....OMG..what they were doing in Vietnam is amazing....Going along teh Ho-Chi trail..and exchanging Cases of AK rounds with defective ones so it wouod ruin guns...
Lord what a mess in a jungle....
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
oy a...and for this posts..ummm......YEs Bring the ..ummmm ,,F-4...and the AC-130 to AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..lolollo...:)
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
lolPuke...
Yes i find all wars very interseting...im just studying mucjh more ww2 just beacuase the scope is so large involving much mor eof the world..but I always want to be knowledgable on all World affairs...
Yes it was a survival ratio they talked about..ANd im sure you will see it on D wings..as i noticed they repeat the same programs frequently...
Just fifnished reading an Air Commando book..tracing history of Air Commandos....OMG..what they were doing in Vietnam is amazing....Going along teh Ho-Chi trail..and exchanging Cases of AK rounds with defective ones so it wouod ruin guns...
Lord what a mess in a jungle....
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
oy a...and for this posts..ummm......YEs Bring the ..ummmm ,,F-4...and the AC-130 to AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..lolollo...:)
Discovery Wings Channel is like watching recorded shows on my VHS now. I bet you've watched "Bear Trap" for a thousand times.
-
I wish I saw that program. I have the Disc Wings Ch and I'm sure I'll see it at some point. But some of those numbers are odd and I don't know what to make of them. It sounds like they are survival ratios rather than kill ratios as Hyena interprets. Still, that's a hard thing to quantify because the threats and tactics changed so much. Shoot, from most of 1968-1972 there were no missions into North Vietnam and so right there the chances of survival would have increased.
<~~thats pretty much what i was tring to say,,with out having to type it all,,very well put:)
on the history channel is were i got that info,,i was watching it one day,,and it had mig and saber pilots talking,,and all the mig pilots said there plane was better and got more kills,,and the saber pilots said the same thing,,,on the show they determed it was pretty equal fights,,,sabers little faster,,but didnt clime as good or turn as well,,but usa had better trained pilots over all then the korean's had,,besides the russian pilots on loan to them<~~very good pilots,,,some mean jet battles over there,,some of the dog fight footage is wild:D
-
lol ike..yes im starting to notice that..
lolol..
Great desert storm footage..and Bosnia tto
Salute BiGB
xoxo
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
lol ike..yes im starting to notice that..
lolol..
Great desert storm footage..and Bosnia tto
Salute BiGB
xoxo
I like the program in D-Wings channel called the "Bear Trap" and "Flying tank". These 2 programs tells us how the Soviet Union collapsed which started in war in Afganistan back in 79 and ended in 89.
-
think aces high would let us have one of these?,,hehehehe j/k
-
Russians sorta stole a crash-landed B29 near end of war..before long..they magically had a new bomber series..also big coincidence that Bear looks like B36....
-
when will Hollywood make a movie about war in Afganistan in the 80s. we want to see the Soviet version of the vietnam war.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What russians used in afgan war (1979 to 1989):
Mi-24 Hind
Mi-8 hip
Su-25 frogfoot
MiG-21s
MiG-23/27 floggers
What U.S.A used in Vietnam War (1965-1974)
UH-1 Huey
huey cobras
F-4 phantoms
F-8 crusaders
F-105 thunderchiefs (the THUD)
A-4s
A-6s
and thats it!!!!!!
-
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
when will Hollywood make a movie about war in Afganistan in the 80s....
what? u never see rambo 3?
-
LOL, not realy
-
ya,,rambo 3 was made when usa was still helping Afganistan fight russians,,,,now there is anothere movie,,that was better than rambo 3,,i cant remmeber the name of it right now,,but its about a lost t-72 russian tank and crew<~~a pretty cool moive,,lots more realisitc,,just cant remmeber the name of it, seen it so long ago,,i remmeber most of the movie,,just not the name,,lol but it was the most realistic movie i seen made about afganistan war
-
when will Hollywood make a movie about war in Afganistan in the 80s. we want to see the Soviet version of the vietnam war
find that movie about the russian t72 tank and you will have your russian movie of the afgan war<~~really a good movie,,well made,,and it wasnt low budget :) anyone remmber the name?
-
Originally posted by hyena426
find that movie about the russian t72 tank and you will have your russian movie of the afgan war<~~really a good movie,,well made,,and it wasnt low budget :) anyone remmber the name?
Did they have Hinds (Mi-24 hellicopter) and frogfoots (Su-25 attack plane) in that movie?
-
The beast..
made in isreal I think.
-
thats it pongo!! good movie too if i remmeber right,,i seen it years ago,,it kinda dissapeard,,,ya and i think they did have attack choppers in that movie too:) im pretty sure it was made in israel too
-
is it true that Bin Laden fought alongside with the Mujahdeens?
-
if you get a korean arena, i want a b-36.
(well ether way i still do):p
-
Originally posted by corey
if you get a korean arena, i want a b-36.
(well ether way i still do):p
B-36 is SO big that it wont even fit in the bomber hangar
-
yes ike..im pretty sure.....they fight any1 who went into afgahn...
-
OBL didn't fight $hi+ - he was in pakistan helping the CIA move arms to the Mujahadeen, but never near any real combat
-
Originally posted by Pongo
The beast..
made in isreal I think.
Is this a beast???
(http://www.af.mil/photos/Feb2000/20000217-f-8825t-002.jpg)
-
is this also a beast?
(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-25-08p07.jpg)
-
thats all real nice...but I fail to see what the F it has to do with a wwII flight sim
-
the beast was a t-72 russian tank in the movie:)
-
also IL-10 was 'the beast' - it[/i] was in WWII
-
Originally posted by bj229r
thats all real nice...but I fail to see what the F it has to do with a wwII flight sim
we are talking about a movie about the afgan war in the 80 so go b*tchslap yourself really hard
-
Originally posted by hyena426
the beast was a t-72 russian tank in the movie:)
is that movie available in Kazza?
-
Originally posted by Ike 2K#
Is this a beast???
(http://www.af.mil/photos/Feb2000/20000217-f-8825t-002.jpg)
does that carry troops
-
yes the Mi-24 hind carries 8 troops or extra weapons and it is the biggest and one of the fastest helicopter in the world (just like your pop's dodge charger with a hemi engine in it)