Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JB42 on December 05, 2002, 03:20:19 AM
-
Going through some post this one reaccuring sentiment keeps popping up. The resentment of the so-called Milkrunner. What is a milkrunner? From what I gathered, it's a pilot who takes a bomber to an undefended target and bombs it. WELL DUH!!!
I may be off base here, but it was my idea that bombers weren't intended to go where the fighters are, but rather the interceptors go to where the bombers are. I amagine that every bomber pilot, real or simulated, dreams of a clear, unobstructed target with little or no resistance. They idea of labeling someone a milkrunner because they won't come bomb where you are waiting for them is silly.
A milkrunner is only a milkrunner if the opposing coutry lets them milkrun. ;)
-
Don't go making sense, it doesn't apply here. Now be off with you swine...
-
http://www.murlin.com/~nanook/MadCow.swf
-
Well said, JB42.
-
It could be a couple of things.
Taking a bomber to where nobody is? I don't believe that's really one of them.
Capturing the bases around a factory and doing nothing but consistantly bombing that factory to run up drop% is milkrunning IMO.
Taking an Il-2 or A-20 and attacking an undefended field is not milkrunning. Taking those planes and attacking a field, then encountering defense, dying then moving to a different field that is totally undefended is milkrunning.
Bombers and attack aircraft tried to avoid enemy planes. However, its commonly accepted that if the target had any value that there were enemy planes there. In AH, that's not the case and people have a tendancy to use that to their advantage.
AKDejaVu
-
http://www.murlin.com/~nanook/MadCow.swf
-
It's more of a situational thing.
Milkruns, or any other sort of strategical/tactical "dweebery" themselves are almost impossible when arena numbers are equal. Milkruns aren't very likely when numbers are balanced, and since every country is in a simular situation, things like dive bombing Lancs, or massive Typhoon raids are usually less of a threat.
However, once the numbers balance shifts to one side, milk-running, dive bombing Lancasters, massive Typhoon raids become a serious threat which the receiving end has no possible way to counter.
While every pilot is tied to defending important areas in the lesser team, the larger team has a significant reserve of pilots who can be organized separately without having to risk faltering defenses. Thus they merrily go swarm an undefended field with multiple planes, and there's absolutely nothing the defenders can do about it. Alternative defense tactics such as temporary point defense, or goon hunting, fuel porking can maybe delay enemy onslaught for 15 minutes ~ 1 hour, but that's about all it can do.
So what happens is, the pilots of the defending side who are already facing harsh odds, vicious and brutal battle near their position, get to see zillions of enemy dots moving to a friendly field at some backward, undefended sector, and grit their teeth in anger that they can't do anything to stop it.
So in a dilemma, whether they should give up the most important strategic position which they are defending, and deploy pilots to defend a less important backward sector, or keep defending the position while the enemy swarms to milk-run every existing base in undefended sectors... people get frustrated, real frustrated.
-
Numbers? bah.
There are maps where milkrunning is difficult because there are too few bases on the front and its difficult to find one undeffended.
On the larger more spread out maps... its totally possible by any country either with or without numbers.
And milkrunning factories is something a country that has already taken several enemy bases does.
AKDejaVu
-
Lotta milkrunners in WW2...
What cracks me up is when somebody shoots you down and calls you a milkrunner. How the hell is it a milkrun if I got shot down?
LOL
Tards
-
Not alot of pilots were shot down at one base and then decided to move to a different undefended base in WW2 funkedup.
AKDejaVu
-
By the nature of your post Kweesa, you make a case for "milkrunning". you make the practice a sound, startegic function. force enemies off main front to defend lesser important targets, thus lessening resistance at the afore mentioned front.
I would agree with the mention of downed pilots for real not getting the chance to "reup" and go somewhere else. It is true also that all missions had second, third and sometimes even more aux. targets in case of bad weather, heavy resistance, or if another preceding wave had successfully destroyed target.
As for the number imbalance topic, because my side has more numbers doesnt mean I should go looking to get killed. I don't complain about being out numbered, only what we do as a country when we are. If some guy is off bombing rear factories, I say have at it, one less guy to have to fight against where it counts.
-
milkrunners are despised because they seem so.... cowardly.. I know guys with jb in front of their handle like to milkrun.. it makes for really crappy fights... The people who like to fight hate milkrunners... when you bother to attack the milkrunners they become either just plain runners or dead or... suicide bombers... none of these things instills a lot of respect... disgust is the common reaction.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Yes, "milk-running" is a totally valid tactic. Efficient and wise one, too.
However, as I mentioned it's not something about the tactic itself that makes people mad. It's about certain situations when people have no way to stop it that makes people frustrated.
People don't get mad when they spot a feeble milk-run attempt when the numbers are equal.
When the sides are balanced, the more participants these "milk-run" missions have, the more the risk they take, because they take people out of front lines, away from immediate battle and deploy them somewhere else. The planners of such tactics have to risk losing air local superiority over the front lines to plan such attempts.
Also, in such situations the defenses are pretty formiddable, too. Pilots can devote themselves to defense quickly, with quick response times, because they are not overstressed, tied up with A2A interceptions at the front lines.
However, things become different when the balance is upset. There's no way of stopping huge hoardes of planes in either 12k or NOE raids inetended for milk-running. People just have to watch in dispair as the conga-line of red dots appear near a flashing field and totally obliterate the area.
Thus, the frustration levels are a measure of not how dweebey the TACTIC is, but a measure of how dweebey the SITUATION is.
Take a close look. Nobody complains about milk-runs when numbers are equal. They can be easily stopped. People start complaining when the situation is very harsh for one certain side.
It's about the context how that tactic is used, and the overall flawed conditions that contribute to the reason behind why such tactics are used.
-
Lazs!
milkrunners are despised because they seem so.... cowardly.. I know guys with jb in front of their handle like to milkrun.. it makes for really crappy fights... The people who like to fight hate milkrunners... when you bother to attack the milkrunners they become either just plain runners or dead or... suicide bombers... none of these things instills a lot of respect... disgust is the common reaction.
But, but, but... it's their $14.95/month... :D
-
Milkrunning is a state of mind. I imagine fester landing that 40 kill sortie in the 262 yesterday was a milkrun to him.
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Not alot of pilots were shot down at one base and then decided to move to a different undefended base in WW2 funkedup.
AKDejaVu
That applies to fighter pukes just as well, dying then upping to defend lonely bases.
-
http://www.murlin.com/~nanook/MadCow.swf
-
beetle... yes... they can play as they like but don't expect for your pleas of "please love us we are not really wussie cowards we are just being realistic" to fall on deaf ears.
as for your, and the (LOL) "home office" views on gun's in America...
lazs
"Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Friday February 23, 2001
The Guardian
England and Wales have one of the worst crime records in the industrialised world - even worse than America - according to the findings of an official survey published yesterday which compares the experience of victims across 17 countries.
The study, coordinated by the Dutch ministry of justice, shows England and Wales at the top of the world league with Australia as the countries where you are most likely to become a victim of crime. These countries face an annual rate of 58 crimes for every 100 inhabitants.
The findings, based on interviews with 35,000 people about their experience of crime across the 17 countries, were carried out last year. They are a blow to Labour's record and underline the challenge facing Tony Blair when he marks the launch of Labour's 10-year anti-crime plan next Monday by becoming the first serving prime minister to visit a prison.
The 2000 International Crime Victimisation survey shows that the falls in crime recorded since the mid-1990s in England and Wales are part of a general pattern of falling crime across the industrialised world but, unlike America, crime levels in England and Wales are still higher than they were at the end of the 1980s. When the survey was last carried out in 1996, England and Wales also topped the league table with 61 offences per 100 inhabitants.
The survey does show, however, that Britain has the best services when it comes to looking after the victims of crime, but it also shows we have a tougher approach to punishing criminals. Asked what should be done with a burglar convicted of stealing a colour television for a second time, more than 50% in England and Wales said he or she should be sent to prison for two years. Only 7% in Spain and 12% in France thought he or she should be jailed at all.
People were asked whether they had been victims of a range of 11 different offences in the previous 12 months, including violent and sexual assault, car crime, burglary and consumer fraud.
The survey also shows that Scotland, with 43 offences per 100 inhabitants, ranks joint fifth alongside America in the international crime league behind England, Australia, the Netherlands and Sweden. Northern Ireland has the second best crime record of the countries surveyed, with 24 offences per 100 inhabitants - the same rate as Switzerland and only just above Japan where the biggest crime problem is bicycle thefts. The detailed findings of the ICVS survey showthat England and Wales are top of the international league for car thefts with 2.6% of all car owners suffering the loss of their vehicle in the previous 12 months. In other sorts of car crime, England was second only to Poland.
Australia and then England and Wales had the highest burglary rates and rates for violent crimes such as robbery, assault and sexual assault "
the result of the backward thinking of the home office is the brutalizing of its helpless citizens... helpless to defend themselves against the strong and the vicious... a trajic example of "form over substance"... "let them eat cake" The lawless run england... In America... 3,000,000 such crimes are prevented by firearms each year... citizens have freedom and dignity one good thing about englands crime rate.... they have, obviously by necessity, learned to care for the traumatized, humiliated and injured victims...guess that's something
-
Unfortunately, lasz, any real data on relative crime rates will be ignored by the people who cling stubbornly to the apocryphal "a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to be used against a family member or acquaintance than a burglar" study and turn a blind eye to the fact that the vast majority of the shooting incidents in that study involved drug dealing -- and if you don't know the person you're selling drugs to or buying drugs from, you deserve for them to be a narc.
Guns cause crime the way that flies cause toejam.
-
Milk running is a matter of purpose, not tactic. In fact, if it was a tactic it couldn't be milk running.
Milk running is the practice of attacking targets for no other reason than to attack them or pad your score. It's attacking targets that does not harm the enemy or advance your country's efforts. It did not lead to an eventual base capture or degrade the resources of the enemy. The target will eventually regen with hardly anyone even noticing it was damaged.
It's not a bad thing, but something that causes others to scratch their heads and wonder why the milk runner is paying $15 a month to do something he could as well do off line. Of course, there is the issue of improving your rank, or just practicing, so don't let it bother you... milk run 'till you drop =o/
-
http://www.murlin.com/~nanook/MadCow.swf
milkrunning
-
Originally posted by lazs2
milkrunners are despised because they seem so.... cowardly.. I know guys with jb in front of their handle like to milkrun.. it makes for really crappy fights... The people who like to fight hate milkrunners... when you bother to attack the milkrunners they become either just plain runners or dead or... suicide bombers... none of these things instills a lot of respect... disgust is the common reaction.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Cowardly? As opposed to being brave by facing someone who at worst sends ya back to the tower? I think you may be taking this game too seriously Lazs.
-
iron... use "cowardice" in context to the game.. just as you do in real life... Is it "cowardice" to not ask your boss for a raise even if you think you deserve it? sure it is... same here... you are risking your fragile little ego... many are afraid of being beaten, and to have people know it.. so... they do "cowardly" stuff online. pretty simple really. Just like any other form of cowardice it is self defeating in the end tho.
lazs
-
yeah, I'll concede the point Lazs. I guess there is some risk to ego. Not in the same class as risking your job tho, imo.
-
Anyone with a JB in front of their name belongs to a squad that allows them to only fly German planes. That means fighters that carry 1 or 2 bombs or that awesome milkrunning machine, the Ju88. I mearly put out a post looking for answers and some meaningful opinions.
Time for the BK board of directors to elect a new public relations officer, the one they have now sucks.
-
Having witnessed on jb jabo milkrun attack on a (allmost deserted) field I would have to say that you know what milrunning means and... I can't believe you don't know why people are disgusted by it.. but then... if I flew LW planes like you guys do in fighter mode then I guess I would find jaboing deserted fields a viable option.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Ambassador of Good Will for the BK's
-
not
-
I agree I cannot stand people who call others milk runners after the aformentioned bomber was shot down. I've been called that before, but luckily enough, when I was raiding an nmy HQ with Warhawk in low level B-17s, we were shot down by an honorable enough pilot to not call us milkrunners.
He was kind enough to not call us that, despite how we flew half way across the SFMA map to raid rook HQ at an altitude of 35ft.
Hats off and kudos to the fine pilots who encountered each other just SE of Rook HQ.
S!
RR5