Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on December 06, 2002, 05:55:05 PM
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LMAO
http://www.mnracing.org/snowdaylq.wmv
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Looks like you've done "O'Clubbed" the site :) Bandwidth exceeded.
Charon
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LOL!
It was a movie some guys made. They took a WRX, a Z28, and one of those Altimas with the big engine to a snowy parking lot to make a drifting video. The Z28 and the Altima got stuck and the WRX was cruising around just fine. :)
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The real advantage to four wheel drive is that you get stuck 100 yards further in.
What is "snow" and why would anyone drive around in it?
lazs
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:rolleyes:
oh Christ.. here in Seattle, we have this breed of southern California refugee that is used to zooming around town in their Lexus or Maxima or whatever.. then they move here and buy some useless 4x4 Jeep or monster AWD behemoth and when it snows they blast around with the 'I've got 4 wheel drive, I can stop on a dime' attitude.. the tow truck drivers must love them.
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Hawk all I can say is watch the video. :)
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Lazs - snow is that white stuff that can be found on the top of Mt. Shasta,CA all year round. If you drive east from Dixon along I-80 towards Sacramento and beyond to Lake Tahoe, you will see that snow chains are mandatory when snow is present. Snow chains are things you put on your car's wheels to help your car do what you need to do on these boards: Get a grip. :p
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You cant throttle steer with AWD... and Crocodile Dundee is still your spokesman. :D
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
You cant throttle steer with AWD
Could you possibly be more clueless about vehicle dynamics? :)
Drop by sometime and I'll give you an education on one of the local twisties. :)
I don't have any snappy comebacks for the Australian weirdo. I know f_ck-all about the rest of Subaru's product line, all those granolamunchermobiles. :)
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A good set of studded snow tires on an old crappy beater of a car will get around in the snow much better and more safely than a typical 4x4 with typical all weather tires.
eskimo
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we have this breed of southern California refugee that is used to zooming around town in
We got plenty of those in Minnesota, the new 4x4 owners. Spent time as a volunteer firefighter, just loved going out in bad weather to find another new 4 wheeler crashed. Didn't so much mind another handsomehunk learning that a 4X4 only gets you going better but not stopping as well, just hated to see them hurting others.
Funny, every 4X4 crash I ever saw was always a brand new shiney one, normally with a woman driver.
Not a firefighter any longer, but I still love to see them in ditches on snowy mornings when I drive to work. I drive by, laugh a little and mutter "handsomehunk".
dago
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Funniest thing is when traffic is slow in sleet or snow... 4x4 owners blast by in the passing lane, just to make a statement. What they seem to don't know is that the reason for the traffic being slow is because people can't STOP. And thats what they discover themselves sooner or later - a 4x4 has the same braking distance when slippery as a normal car. :D
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i have a very clear memory of a new years eve snowstorm 2 years ago, driving out to my girlfriend's family house in deerfield and going about 10 mph in traffic because of the weather.
there was no left lane to use, it was completely covered over, and yet a silly subaru outback flew past going at least 40 or so, kicking up snow, looking like the sh*t over all us commoners.
about 2 miles after that he was in a wall.
oh, and i live for drift in my saturn :) the rear end just lets itself out since it's so light. every winter they have ice racing in northern NH that the car club i'm in does, i cant wait for the season to start.
btw, anyone ever seen Initial D?
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I'd rather be in a 4 wheel drive rather than a 2 WD in wet and slippery weather. It's the ice, not the snow, that I'd worry about. Don't think that because you're in a 4WD that you don't need some type of traction device.
***** ADVISE******
Check your tire size then your owner's manual. You'd probably be surprised to learn that you can't use standard class S (Class S specification will mean that nothing will protrude over 1/2" if attached properly) tire chains and/or traction cables.
From about '88 or so to the present, some vehicles don't have the clearance between its strut assembly and the inner top/sidewall of the tire.
Toyota/Lexus owners manual will state (about 90% of its vehicles) that you can use Class S chains EXCEPT radial CABLE and V-bar reinforced chains.
The other 10% can't even use Class S chains. You'd have to get a chain with less than 3/8" width links (good luck finding those). Toyota has found that even though Class S traction cables are thinner than comparable chains, the cables tend to have it's ends stick out a bit more plus you can't use chain tightners on the cables (only one design I know of uses tightners with cables - Laclede Sure Grip Z type cables (Going by memory here, might be from Peerless.) Some BMW dealers sell those as their 'approved' traction device for about $90-125.
Honda/Acura, on the other hand will recommend Class S cables only on most of their vehicles.
Some Caravans (Voyagers, Town and Countrys), Saturns, Intrepids, Saabs, MBZs, BMWs, etc (just to name but a handful) can't use any type of cable/chain traction devise.
Gonna be stuck with the $300.- 400. Spikes Spiders.
If you have a minimum of 1" clearance between your strut and shield assembly (and/or your brake caliper for that matter) and your wheel/tire, you should be able to get away with a Class S chain or cable. I prefer the Laclede Alpine chains. Hardened steel thinner links. Better traction. Can be used on ABS systems. Easier to install over conventional cables or chains. Comes with the tightner attached. About $60.-80. for a set of two.
No matter what you decide to get, test fit them BEFORE you actually need them. Nothing will bum you out more because you had to go back because your traction device didn't fit.
Again, check your owner's manual on possible limitations. You might just get surprised.
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Funked, my assessment of you from 3½ years ago still stands: You are a most interesting and fascinating fellow, a man of many parts. :D I must add you to my list of people to visit.
I don't know a huge amount about driving in snow. We don't get much here. I had to deal with it living in the Chicago area. I didn't have any mishaps in my (2WD) Camaro. I got stuck a couple of times, and always carried a shovel in the boot. OK, trunk.
But I remember visiting an English friend of mine one Christmas in Albuquerque, and we went up the Sandias in his little pisspot Ford Maverick. We got half way up, but then it was hopeless. The thing was sliding all over the place. It was too light and had 2Wd to the rear wheels. Meanwhile, the 4X4 were just romping up. But I have seen how some of those guys drive, and they seem way too overconfident. So I can relate to some of these stories.
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Alan just beware if you come out here we'll have to go up to Lazs place and shoot a bunch of guns. :)
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LOL Mike! That's already in the itineray :) The other must do item on the list is to set up a meeting with Stiglr in San Francisco.
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I dont know Funky...but the scariest part of this thread is this line right here:
Originally posted by beet1e
I must add you to my list of people to visit.
If I were you I would move and not give anyone my new address. Especially if he has an accent when he calls. :)
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beetle... I have been to mt shasta many times and lake tahoe and reno and... a lot of high alt places... course I allways go in the summer. why go in the winter... the whole place is covered with cold slippery toejam that ranges from oil black to bright white.
lazs
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Lazs - I have not been to Lake Tahoe by winter, but I am told it is beautiful - just as it is in the summer. The lake is 1600' deep in places. :eek:
Sling322 - you're too late! Funked and I used to be in the same WB squad - JG5 - and met in NC in 2000.
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LOL Sling :)
I'd only be scared if Creamo put me on that list. We all know he's a stalker.
I bet Fatty and Mason were scared when I announced they were on my list. :)
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All wheel drive gives you better traction in snow. Duh.
I'm curious as to what this would have to do with someone living in San Fran?
This vid kinda reminds me of a 4x4 enthusiast pointing to a pick of a tree stump that he managed to clear because he had 1/2" more clearance than a guy that just high-centered on it.
Besides, better handling under power is great... but stopping is the end all be all of driving in bad weather. Usually, really good handling characteristics tend to make drivers overconfident... then it comes time to stop. Voila.... 2/3 or the cars in the ditch are 4x4.
AKDejaVu
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Just thought it was a funny vid. The guys who made it thought so. The intent wasn't to show that the WRX was more macho than the other two. Seeing dorks in performance cars going out to a parking lot to do hoopty donuts in the snow, and then they get stuck, that's comedy.
As for using AWD in NoCal. I really enjoy the AWD now that we are in the rainy season. In all my previous FWD rice rockets, rainy season meant wheelspin and understeer season. Now it means four-wheel-drift season. :)
And I don't need any lectures about snow driving. I was born in Ohio and lived in Illinois for 6 years. I have driven in all kinds of toejam. Never got so much as a scratch on the car.
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In all my previous FWD rice rockets, rainy season meant wheelspin and understeer season. Now it means four-wheel-drift season.
:rolleyes:
You do that in parkinglots too funkedup?
AKDejaVu
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Nope, just on the local lonely mtn roads and occasionally when I'm turning onto a wide, deserted, street.
And you have to admit, FWD sucks bellybutton in the rain for performance driving.
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All vehicles suck bellybutton in the rain for performance driving. Its just that some suck less than others. Bad weather is not the time to be pushing the performance limits of your car.
I'll stick with my mini. Its frontwheel-drive with a neutral right-left torque. I've never pushed it hard in the rain and doubt I ever will. It handles quite well under regular driving.
AKDejaVu
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That's cool DJV, have fun. Drive how you want.
Some of us are enthusiasts and enjoy spirited driving. So having more traction is important to us.
Enjoy.
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Its just when enthusiasts manage to cross into oncoming traffic or not be able to stop in time for the slow moving truck...
Driving on the edge on public streets is not a matter of individual choice. Its simply being irresponsible. Glamorize it as much as you want... but there are just too many variables in virtually any situation.
Get yourself a no-onlet, no trees, totally flat (view-wise) stretch of road where you can see nobody is coming or going and have at it. I just seldomely see people doing the "enthusiast" thing in those situations.
When you're driving on the edge, you limit your reaction time to other situations. Other people aren't prepared for it and you have less ability to respond to their actions. In the rain that risk is increased exponentially. But, hell, if it gives you an adreniline rush go for it. I mean... maybe eventually they'll even put on you on a Mt. Dew commercial. Or you'll kill youself and most likely someone else. Either way... its just a matter of personal preference.
AKDejaVu
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Hey you drive how you want.
Don't be telling me how to drive.
The last thing I need is some bellybutton clown who has never driven with me and knows nothing of my driving record, lecturing me on how to drive.
If I ever have an accident then I will come on here and eat crow. Until then, hop in your over priced hoopty secretary mobile and KMBFHA. :)
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Hey funked... I'm not critiquing your driving. I'm critiquing "In all my previous FWD rice rockets, rainy season meant wheelspin and understeer season. Now it means four-wheel-drift season."
If you want to talk trash like a love muffin... don't get so upset when someone calls you on it.
AKDejaVu
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Do you even know what a four wheel drift is?
I'm not upset BTW. I enjoy having discussions with you in general. Maybe I had too much coffee. :)
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Face it... you saw a film that had a car similar to yours being driven in the snow by love muffines and you thought it was cool how much it showed the others up. It doesn't really matter that it only showed them up in a "snowbound cookie contest"... just that someone finally found an extreme situation to justify a choice in vehicle purchase.
Camaros are not good snow vehicles, most front wheel drives cars are decent in the snow, most AWD vehicles are even better. Audis, Subarus and Jeeps have held this distinction for some time.
Here's the thing... I had an Audi Quattro for 5 years... not once did I have to engage the Quattro feature in the snow (that's about 30 snow trips) because the handling of the car combined with driving safely never required it. I've seen plenty of Audis, Subarus and Jeeps in the gutter that most likely had AWD enabled when they went in.
So you haven't had an accident in the snow yet. Either you're driving more like I'm talking and less like you are or you are simply lucky. If its the latter, I'll be sure to honk when I drive by your busted subaru as it sits highcentered on a mound of snow off the side of the road.
AKDejaVu
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Up here the first clear day after a snowstorm is a good sporting day. You load up the car and head to the interstate, and check out all the SUVs rolled in a ditch.
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I've noticed a lot of US 'SUV's have 2WD models, I'm curious, is this common. And on the 4WD models are they manual 4WD selection, or the AWD autotraction select type, do they have the hi/lo ratios and do they have center-diff locking?
Just curious coz some of the US SUV specs I've seen seem a little 'dumbed' down, which might explain why the end up rolled all the time.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Could you possibly be more clueless about vehicle dynamics? :)
Drop by sometime and I'll give you an education on one of the local twisties. :)
I know a thing or two, how close are you to the Glen? ;)
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OK Thanks again for the lesson Mr. Driving Expert DejaVu. :)
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PS I apologize for calling you those names DJV (seriously). It kinda changed the tone of the thing and was uncalled for.
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PPS I probably do drive more like you do in general. I do reach and exceed traction limits fairly often, but I "pick my spots". Only at moderate speeds and in situations where the only victims would be my pride and pocketbook.
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"FunkyFlame" in tha hiz-ouse!!! Rollin on dubs in hiz blazin "Dubua-XR" Boooooeeeey ... FunkyFlame gets all the ho'z!
Funky Got It On Inda Snow and toejam ya'll (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72157)
Speeding around like a hoopty punk funky? lol, get em, you'll crash just like I told you about my co-worker.
edit- "I do reach and exceed traction limits fairly often, but I "pick my spots".
lol, stop it!!!!!
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What co-worker? I wanna hear this.
And don't be talkin sheeyit bout mah homeez tha stuntaz.
Bling bling baby.
Bay Area is officially the rice capital of the automotive world. I need to get a digital camera so I can document the ridiculous wings and bondo sculptures I see every day.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Here's the thing... I had an Audi Quattro for 5 years... not once did I have to engage the Quattro feature in the snow (that's about 30 snow trips) because the handling of the car combined with driving safely never required it.
Propably because Audi is using "full-time 4WD" so you were driving it with four-wheel drive on.
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Originally posted by funkedup
OK Thanks again for the lesson Mr. Driving Expert DejaVu. :)
Expert driver? Nope. Good driver? Yep.
Its the good drivers that get to thinking their experts that are the problem. Experts keep it on the track.
AKDejaVu
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My Geo Tracker 4x4 is the best snow vehicle I have owned bar none. I even got the soccer mom version with four doors and a hard top. 'Course I don't try to climb Mount Everest either, just go from point "A" to point "B".
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Originally posted by Staga
Propably because Audi is using "full-time 4WD" so you were driving it with four-wheel drive on.
Umm.. read up on older Audis bud. You won't look so silly.
AKDejaVu
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I told you my friend at work bought your car before you did, that's why I knew what you bought.( I did dig it).
He took the crew chief home on slick Reno roads last year demonstrating its 4 wheel power and wrapped it on a pole. Crew Chief walks with a cane now, and ironically, he nows drives a Audi..
Not that I care, just saying be careful. And please post more "I do reach and exceed traction limits fairly often, but I "pick my spots"stuff! It's not carpet in your garage, but Im nearly upside down in comedy relief.
:)
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Originally posted by Creamo
He took the crew chief home on slick Reno roads last year demonstrating its 4 wheel power and wrapped it on a pole. Crew Chief walks with a cane.
Oh man, that sucks. :(
And please post more "I do reach and exceed traction limits fairly often, but I "pick my spots"stuff!
Creamo, I'm a geek, and I have the credentials to prove it. I'm sure I will post more. "It's What I Do."
It's not carpet in your garage
OUCH!
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Its the good drivers that get to thinking their experts that are the problem.
Very true. I didn't understand that when I was younger, and almost learned the hard way. I was fortunate not to break any equipment or people, and now I have a lot more "imagination" about what the worst possible outcome is of a given situation.
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AKDJV what model was that you were driving?
Did it had the switch or knob on the front of the shifter under the radio?
And yes, every quattro is using full-time 4-WD, all you could do is turn the differential-locks on or off in older models.
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Oh just be careful. They bite and that's a true story. I need someone to argue with. Although good 'Ol Jerry Rice about put me ahead in the NFL.com FDB fantasy league and seriously puts that cheating bastard Fatty's playoffs dominance in doubt!
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I will post some crap about Brett Farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrvrvrvrvrvrve tomorrow, I promise.
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LOL! I had Terrell too... my motto this year has been "Ya, but he scores me alot of points in fantasy foot ball".
So.. you gonna kick fatty's bellybutton this week?
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I just reread this whole thing. I should be banned for starting this ghey thread and posting that ghey movie.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Its the good drivers that get to thinking their experts that are the problem. Experts keep it on the track.
AKDejaVu
I still dont like you, but well said. ;)
Ive seen plenty of rice boy caused accidents on public roads that just never needed to happen.
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Originally posted by Staga
AKDJV what model was that you were driving?
Did it had the switch or knob on the front of the shifter under the radio?
And yes, every quattro is using full-time 4-WD, all you could do is turn the differential-locks on or off in older models.
I had an 86... and it was front wheel drive unless you pushed the magic "quattro" button. It was only worth anything in deeper snow (over 6"), but not really that helpfull anytime else.
And I don't think they went to the full-time AWD for all quattros until 96 or so.
AKDejaVu
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DeJavu so you did find the differential-lock button from your Audi ? wtg !
Audi was using the "Torsen" (Torque sensing) differential-lock in the middle which automatically transfers more torque/power to the axle which is turning slower, ie. if your front wheels begun to slip because of the ice it automatically transfers power to the rear axle. With that "magic knob" you could turn on the locks but you couldn't make it a 2wd car.
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LMAO
Have you guys checked out that site where that video was posted?
Here's what it said on the main page.
12/07
That video that I posted ended up on about 10 other "big" sites... So we used about 43gb of bandwidth in one day. Last month we only used 580mb! So thank god/ipaska that the site is back up. Oh yeah, If anyone would like to help this site out we take cash!
:D
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btw AkDejavu here are couple 4WD cars where you can actually turn off AWD and use only 2-WD to move on:
Friend's Volvo C303, mostly used for "Jamborees" in the wilderness
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/volvo_c303.jpg)
And this one is Volvo TP-21
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/volvotp21.jpg)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Umm.. read up on older Audis bud. You won't look so silly.
AKDejaVu
I hate it when someone pwns me, do you ?
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Well.. you got me on that Staga. I was going on what I was told when I bought the car and when the differential switch broke. The service man actually said it would only opperate as a two weel drive car without the lock engaged.
Thanks for putting me in my place.
AKDejaVu
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Well actually without locks turned on it would be 2WD car but not in a way it's usually understood.
Without turning locks on one of your front wheel and one wheel from rear-axle would be pushing your car thought IIRC Audi was using automatic Visco-Locks in the rear differential, not sure about this thought.
edit: Good reading (http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm) about cars and their technics.
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I read that page already. What I'm not really finding anywhere is exactly what the function of the switch is... other than hearing it from you.
AKDejaVu
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someone admitted to owning a Geo Tracker ??? hehe
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http://www.audioc.force9.co.uk/articles/quattro/3.htm
First Generation:
Turbocharged, intercooled 5 cylinder petrol engine, developing 200 bhp, with all 3 inter-axle differentials, with the centre and rear manually lockable by cable.
Second Generation:
For the 1983 model year, the operation of the differential locks changed from fully manual to pneumatic. Now the centre differential could be locked, or the centre and rear together, via a two-stage pull out knob. This was also fitted to the 80 quattro.
Third Generation:
The next development replaced the centre differential with a 'Torsen' unit, which locked when necessary without the driver's intervention. This was activated by mechanical, rather than electronic means. The rear differential remained manually lockable, but the lock disengages automatically above 25 km/h. This system was fitted to the quattro versions of the 80, 90, 100, 200 and Coupe from the 1988 Model Year.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I just reread this whole thing. I should be banned for starting this ghey thread and posting that ghey movie.
Why bother, you'll probably just quit on your own soon enough...it's been a while since the last one! :p
SOB
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just saw this thread.
All wheel drive = ditch
at least in snow country. I hardly ever see a non-4wd in the ditch. Too many amazinhunks think that having 4wd means they don't need to learn to drive in the snow and ice.
lol
maroons
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Hehe I had a small "situation" this morning; I was driving to my work via "Ring 1" and I was going to drive to the ramp for exit from the freeway.
I touched the brake and felt when ABS started to vibrate the pedal, 100meters to the tight 90degree turn and I had "plenty" of speed.
Had to choose "over shoot" and make a u-turn few miles later. Two 25meter/52metric-ton semi-trucks were tailing me and for some reason they made same decision :D
btw same happens in here with 4WDs, I used to spent some time in a insurance company's storage depot searching for usable parts and every winter there were plenty of Range-Rovers, Subarus and other 4wd cars after first slippery mornings.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I just reread this whole thing. I should be banned for starting this ghey thread and posting that ghey movie.
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There is nothing quite like driving in the snow in a front-drive Cadillac with old tires. Rather than mere "understeer", the problem could better be described as "no-steer". It's a strangely amusing sensation to be gliding along at 30 or 40 MPH and turning the wheel from stop to stop with the car not making the slightest change in direction. Oddly enough, that same car with good tires on it drove as if it was a snowmobile.
The rear-drive Buick performs on snow about as one would expect a 2-ton vehicle using mostly a 1970's-era suspenstion design to perform in that kind of situation. It doesn't get stuck unless you drive like an idiot, but the rear end tends to be a little squirrely. My wife refuses to drive it. Her Grand Marquis isn't really any better--it doesn't oversteer as much, but the drive wheels seem to have a lot less traction to actually get the car moving.
J_A_B