Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2002, 06:47:01 AM
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A fellow Knight by the name DeathPig was squeaking how messed up and lame AH was because he was repeatedly being killed. His frequent deaths was just more proof that the game wasn't made right and that he also seemed to blow up after getting hit by after a solid burst from the enemy's guns, just further reinforced his belief.
When I suggested that maybe the enemy's burst hit your cockpit area, instantly killing him, my fellow Knights were subjected to a 10 minute obscenity laden diatribe from DeathPig.
While most of his comments seemed to focus over giving someone a blow-job, he crossed the line when he suggested to one of the female players that she give him oral sex and his grossly vulgar, anti-semetic comments. Unfortunately the screenshots didn't catch what he said to Mandie but it did catch his other outbursts.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/comment1.jpg)
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/comment2.jpg)
There isn't a place for that type of talk in AH or anywhere and Mandie sure as hell didn't deserve the verbal attack on her, all she did was say hello over country channel.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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I was warned the other night for saying 'heya mathsqueak'
Yet a few hours later, the same deathpig character went in a tirade about whatever the hell it was, saying all sorts of crap that shoulda given him an automatic mute to begin with.
I took my 'warning' good naturedly because I'd rather the arena not have people touting off in it, but if you're gonna fricken get on me for saying squeak make damn sure that you've got a mod for every hour of the day because it's hypocritical otherwise.
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Maybe its time HT appointed respected 'mature' members of the community with mute powers,to gag these people for an amount of time,HT cant police the game all the time,so maybe some of us could do it? we're all part of the same community,so its all down to us to come down on this behaviour.
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ACK-Ack,
Send the screen shot into HTC (E-mail). They will keep an eye on him. When he blows up again, they will take care of business!
He wont be around long
Swag
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Actually, send it to them today. Just from what you caught and posted here, we might have seen the last of the DeathPig.
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I also witnessed his BS while introducing someone to AH. Nice first impression eh? I also saw his little comments to Mandie and constant remarks to AKAK about sucking a "dik". and his repeated threats to AKAK of assault. ( true indicator of a coward) I didnt see his little Jew remarks till just now. This is about as out of line as Ive seen in here. Im no angel but most of my bs is all in fun. I dont know what action HTC can or would take, but I like to see someone put a foot in this jerks ass.:mad:
AKAK i didnt know you were a Jew!?:D j/k bro
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A disgusting example of everything wrong with the auto-mute system. Overzealous moderators warning for harmless friendly pg-13 banter, and seemingly never around when things get truely out of hand.
This is what happens when parents let 12 year olds use the internet unattended. Please for god's sake, any parents here, don't let your kids online alone lest they become like this guy.
The language warning is a good idea as it helps some of us catch the occasional slip, but the auto-mute is completly pointless.
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In other post's I have made about the fact that simple profanity is nothing compared to the truly serious crap that is in the text buffer from time to time this is what I was refering to.
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Overzealous moderators warning for harmless friendly pg-13 banter, and seemingly never around when things get truely out of hand.
Obviously, the programmed "automute" can't handle the job most of us feel needs doing. This guy is a prime example.
How many human moderators are there? I don't think anyone but HTC staff know that.
From the player base point of view, though, there's two or three camps.
There's those that want more moderation.
Those that think it's about right.
Those who think it's overdone already.
How do you please all those groups?
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yep...send the pictures to htc its the only way anything is gonna happen meanwhile find out were he lives and give his mother a call about his language and strongly suggest that she take him over her knee and spank him.
and judging by the posts it seems that people get muted for saing
**shi it** (**are any letters/words) while crap like that wich HAS no place ANYWHERE in ANY society can go on...maybe they should start giving kids tours of the nazi death camps so that the kids will learn something about NOT talking like that...
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Question:
What is the difference between this BB and the MA? Is it just that one is in real time?
I've seen crap spewaged in here that would get you an instant warning in the MA and a MUTE for an hour in the DA.
Don't get me wrong, I've been cussing like a sailor since I was five years old, but the dis-similarity in enforcement is a hilarity, or not, as the case may be.
Both can and will be veiwed by kiddos and overly sensitive parents.
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Originally posted by Toad
How do you please all those groups?
Very easy solution. Don't implement an auto-filter and human triggered muting for the sender side, but add an option on what to receive.
Like some search engines offer the option to disable certain kinds of hits.
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Originally posted by Slash27
... I dont know what action HTC can or would take, but I like to see someone put a foot in this jerks ass.:mad:
After watching this malcontent's diatribe fly by in the text buffer for at least 10 minutes ... If HTC does anything less than BOOT this guy for eternity ... it would be a shame.
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I'm sure everyone remembers the discussion of the name SSWaffen on the BB and the many implications that had. While I don't intend to inflame another discussion about that, I do mention it to serve a point. As a young Jewish guy in today's age, I can attest to the many slights and vocal bashing that minorities take. While I enjoy AH very much, it is this kind of crap that makes me very angry, and almost ashamed to be associated with such people playing the same game. While I heartily agree in the protection of 'freedom of speech,' (as a member of the military also), the main channel ranting (such as this) and choice of game ID's is offensive to some players and therefore should be dealt with. If you can't please your customers, then they won't continue to play. Of course, that statement is sure to spark some commentary as things always tend to move toward more frivolous and ridiculous requests. I hope my request for more censorship does not fall into the category of frivolous inquiries, as this is a very important and personal topic for me. Comments welcome.
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Toad,
Just a few days ago I got a warning for using the word "Moron" refering to my AK friends in friendly banter. :confused:
But this DeathPig character can flip out for an hour and no one is there to mute him.
Problem is that there are too few moderators, and when there IS one, they abuse their power. They mute you for things that not even HTC employees would mute you for.
I say that the moderators should only watch for people using inventive variations of words that are already in the filter, like plowing, cok suckah, assminer, stuff like that.
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Well a little research, he flew less than 20 sorties last tour, and none on previous tours.
He's not in a squad, flown 360 sorties this tour and has 33 kills...
That about sums it up..
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Originally posted by Animal
Toad,
Just a few days ago I got a warning for using the word "Moron" refering to my AK friends in friendly banter. :confused:
But this DeathPig character can flip out for an hour and no one is there to mute him.
Problem is that there are too few moderators, and when there IS one, they abuse their power. They mute you for things that not even HTC employees would mute you for.
I say that the moderators should only watch for people using inventive variations of words that are already in the filter, like plowing, cok suckah, assminer, stuff like that.
Yep, been sayin the anony-jerks need to be better policed for quite awhile now. Right now if one of these moderators is having a bad day, and they already don't like you, you might as well log off for the night. Make one slip up on the readio and they'll mute ya every time ya hit the enter key.
Toad ya forgot a group in your listing
Those who thing the moderators need to be policed better to prevent abuse of their power. And some solid guidelines on when to use thier power. 'Course, once this is going good it wouldna hurt to add a few more folks and try for round the clock coverage.
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Originally posted by Slash27
AKAK i didnt know you were a Jew!?:D j/k bro
Until last night, neither did I :D
Ack-Ack
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I'm curious as to why people feel that language that is "uncalled for in the MA" is acceptable here? Remove the pics... email them to HTC and let them handle it.
AKDejaVu
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sounds like an order
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Yup this has happened a few times, Deathpig has made a complete idiot of himself more than this, especially on Ch 2.
In comparision Shane got muted for calling someone a dweeb. Its more likely he got muted for been just so damn annoying on ch 1 and this was the final nail that broke the camels back. However, shane is easily squelched and pretty harmless, his comments never go beyond 'lamers' or 'dweeb' and usually end in a challenge to go to the DA. So its kind of sad that he gets picked on while people like this Deathpig kid get away with the real problems.
The Hall Monitors need some hard and fast guidelines IMHO so that the muting is given out a little more fairly.
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Originally posted by Toad
How do you please all those groups?
You dont. The old saying "you cannot please all of the people all of the time" is true not only here but in all parts of life.
Yes like any company HTC must listen to us, the paying users. But in reality the only group HTC needs to please is... HTC. On the other hand HTC has an obligation to us, the paying users, to provide a fun arena to game in, and so far they have done so.
As HTC prolly doesnt have the people to full time monitor the game, I feel there should be some real-time moderation by us, the users. (This may be in place right now and we dont know about it.) But also there needs to be a offical feedback area to complain to HTC about abusive players (and moderators) outside of this BBS. This BBS should be used for exchangeing information and ideas, not complaining about players.
Along with this system there needs to be a graduated system of discipline for those who break the rules, from warnings to banning.
Just another mans $0.02, next time I will charge $0.04.
Fridaddy
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Originally posted by ccvi
Very easy solution. Don't implement an auto-filter and human triggered muting for the sender side, but add an option on what to receive.
Like some search engines offer the option to disable certain kinds of hits.
So the responsibility for language then rests on the passive listener rather than the active spewer?
We already have .squelch which is a form of that and it doesn't seem to be meeting the needs of the group.
But it might be worth looking into; you could make it much more encompassing that way.
I'd love a permanent squelch list too, but HT is on record as saying that doesn't encourage the community aspect he's looking for.
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Cave, how are you going to police the police?
I assume that HTC can look at the entire text record at some time but who knows how long they hold it.
I'm guessing you'd need at least one full time employee to review text. Is that the best use of resources?
Yeah, moderators should be held accountable if they screw up, just like anyone else. By what mechanism though? What's your idea?
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Everything from squelching Channel 1 (which I hate to do cause I do like to gab with friends from other countries) to squelching individual players. The only one that works for me is the individual players. I type in the squelch command for channel one and it keeps right on coming through. I gave up on it after a while, just started typing in the offensive player's handle with the .squelch command and keep on playing.
Best thing I have found to do when someone is spouting off in a beligerent, obnoxious, offensive manner is to get a few screenshots and just clip the offensive parts to send to HTC. I've done it more than once, found the "offender" strangely absent from the arenas for quite a while after I sent them in...................
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Originally posted by Toad
Cave, how are you going to police the police?
I assume that HTC can look at the entire text record at some time but who knows how long they hold it.
I'm guessing you'd need at least one full time employee to review text. Is that the best use of resources?
Yeah, moderators should be held accountable if they screw up, just like anyone else. By what mechanism though? What's your idea?
Well, here's a thought
Whenever one of these moderators uses thier abilities, be it for a warning or a muting, the server dumps the previous X lines from the buffer to a log file, with the date/time and the name of the mod who issued the warning/mute. If it's a warning the text on the warning box can also be dumped to this.
25-50 lines or so, to catch the context of what's being said. Probably less if the server messages (captures/kills/etc) are filtered and not dumped to the log.
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I get warning for letting "ass" slip instead of arse and this stupid kid gets way with THAT!?!?
Little consistancy here HTC, please.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
When I suggested that maybe the enemy's burst hit your cockpit area, instantly killing him, my fellow Knights were subjected to a 10 minute obscenity laden diatribe from DeathPig.
While most of his comments seemed to focus over giving someone a blow-job, he crossed the line when he suggested to one of the female players that she give him oral sex and his grossly vulgar, anti-semetic comments. Unfortunately the screenshots didn't catch what he said to Mandie but it did catch his other outbursts.
There isn't a place for that type of talk in AH or anywhere and Mandie sure as hell didn't deserve the verbal attack on her, all she did was say hello over country channel.
ACK-ACK, I got the whole thing on film, even the attack on Mandie. I'll be sending it to HTC. :)
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Cave, worth a try . Why don't you send it in?
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I really dont think there are any moderators in the MA, or any other place for that reason...
What i do think though, is maybe one of the HTC staff is on at times, but under a different name..
Just my IMO.
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Kinda makes me all warm and fuzzy to know that I shot down Deathpig 4 times in about a 20 minute period. Pity he had to take it out on others though...
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There's a simple solution for brain dead bigots like Deathpig.
Lock his account.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by vorticon
yep...send the pictures to htc its the only way anything is gonna happen meanwhile find out were he lives and give his mother a call about his language and strongly suggest that she take him over her knee and spank him.
and judging by the posts it seems that people get muted for saing
**shi it** (**are any letters/words) while crap like that wich HAS no place ANYWHERE in ANY society can go on...maybe they should start giving kids tours of the nazi death camps so that the kids will learn something about NOT talking like that...
Unfortunitly people like this would prolly only take pleasure in the nazi death camps...
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I have no doubt that this Deathpig character is history. And the reason he will be banned is that the players brought it to the attention of HTC. This is an example of how the community can police itself and become a valuable asset to AH.
I think we should try to understand the moderators. They are players just like us, and extended periods of game play without characters like Deathpig sort of lowers the bar so that the moderators may tend to become more picky about the language they respond to. It's natural and many here would fall into the same trap... "the slippery slope". Trust me, I've had great experience at seeing how this can happen.
Such a job requires very special people who can uniformly apply standards provided to them by the company without being influenced by anger or personal bias. Such a person is hard to find, but even harder is to consistantly apply this standard over time. They need extensive training, practice and review. Those who can't seem to do the job correctly need to be replaced... through no fault of their own... just too human.
This requires a person in charge, and some help in related administrative work. This support and administrative group would ideally be employees of HTC. Unfortunately, HTC likely cannot afford these people and lacks the resources to do it as is.
I've seen all this, from top down, done by volunteer help from select players. The person in charge would report to HTC, but must able to make decisions and direct others independantly. Of course, there were still complaints, but that is likely something that can't be avoided.
This would require the right person, one who is willing to take on a great deal of pressure, and be willing make a very large time commitment, all for grattis and love of game and community.
Does such a person exist here? If so, offer Hitech a hand.
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and i thought my outbursts were bad lol!
This guy needs some re-educating work well.
send in the pics, get the guy booted, but having said that, i`m posting late so he's probably already gone :p
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Umm...I shot down a guy fri. night about 10:30 P CST named.....
diddlyers?...ya cant even say that on radio....to tell peeps about it
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Cowards always talk the loudest
usarmy
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I dissagree (a little). There are "robots" out there that *can* do the same crap 24/7 forever. IMHO the problem is that we tend to select for higher IQ's and independant thought. Meanwhile, the best automitons are lower functioning, and less likely to opine - therefore invisible to upper management.
-W
Originally posted by Grizzly
Such a person is hard to find, but even harder is to consistantly apply this standard over time. They need extensive training, practice and review.
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Could we get more human moderators please?
Ones that can distinguish between friendly banter and someone like Deathpig.
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Mandie told me about it that night pissed me off.. there is nothing I can do about it but I tell ya... Im not voilent by nature but I would beat the living watermelon out of this guy if I had the chance....
that is all
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Wish we could go back to the $30 a month,that would keep a lot of this rabble/infants out of the game.
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To give you an example,I recently removed JB79 from my squad because of 'bad behavior' including offering to give me free kills for this $100 prize,playing for the Nits as well as Bish while also using the name 'Jocstrap' heres a well put together message he left on my guestbook(which Ive now had to remove because he keeps posting indecent messages there),but then,what do you expect of a 13 year old? Trying to add my name as if I posted it was a funny touch.
Guestbook (http://nfguestbooks.com/guestbook.asp?user=joccy)
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Well, I have a story from about a year ago, that would make a sailor blush.
It was on the Uterus Map before the upgrade was made. I was flying a Chog on patrol and ended up vulching a landing P-47 D while he was trying to land. Some ack was up at the field, and I broke half my left wing off hitting the runway. I returned to base and landed successfully.
The pilot was extremely pissed off and privately messaged me, calling me a mother diddlyer and a maggot. I had to land before I could reply. When I did, I challenged him to a duel in the DA using P-47's, which I lost. He then started up with, "Who's your daddy?" To which I responded, I did not like his behavior and had already reported it to HTC. I tried to reason with him, and said even though he had won the duel, I still did not like his abuse of the players, and to cut it out. He listened to me and never did it to me again, though he did try it with BigMax. I remember BigMax saying on channel 1, "you got a problem with me XXXX?" That was all it took to straighten this player out, imo.
Les
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ACK-ACK, I got the whole thing on film, even the attack on Mandie. I'll be sending it to HTC.
Thank you MW007 & ! :)
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SSSTTTEEERRRIIIIIKKEEE 3 (He's out)
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you can't say 'ass-miner'?:(
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Follow up:
I sent an e-mail right after I made my first post...
I got a reply that following Monday MORNING at 9:00 Cst....
I havent seen him since
WTG HTC :)
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It looks like HiTech did take care of it. I haven't seen the little guy since that night he blew up on Channel 1. Thanks for sending the film in Mw007
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Mw007
Follow up:
I sent an e-mail right after I made my first post...
Please don't misunderstand the comment I'm about to make. I do commend your concern about the issue involved, and compliment you for taking the time to send the e-mail with film.
I am a tad concerned, though, to see you come back here and post a quote from the e-mail reply you received. I would hate to think that perhaps they might be reluctant to reply e-mails of this nature in future because they don't want to see those replies posted in public.
Just saying (and don't forget, I do commend you for helping in the first place!)
culero
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Originally posted by mrfish
you can't say 'ass-miner'?:(
But, you can say ultra melon! :D
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Originally posted by Grizzly
Such a job requires very special people
Such a person is hard to find
I think HTC found them on the short bus. And whoever...thanks for the mute beforehand! :D
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Culero,
You're right...I just edited that post. Thanks for the reccomendation.
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Originally posted by Mw007
Culero,
You're right...I just edited that post. Thanks for the reccomendation.
Rgr, welcome, my pleasure.
I just noticed your squad affiialtion - same MWs as from AW, right? Tell DOODY I (culero/AWAR Kelly) said "hiyas Dood" :)
culero
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Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
I'm sure everyone remembers the discussion of the name SSWaffen on the BB and the many implications that had.
That kid didn't mean anything by it - to him was just some german thing he had seen somewhere. He wasn't saying bad things on the "radio", as far as i saw he was behaving himself otherwise.
That whole deal was handled very badly and needlessly ran a player off from the game. If it had been handled properly (descretely) everyone could have been made happy.
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Originally posted by Turbot
That kid didn't mean anything by it - to him was just some german thing he had seen somewhere. He wasn't saying bad things on the "radio", as far as i saw he was behaving himself otherwise.
That whole deal was handled very badly and needlessly ran a player off from the game. If it had been handled properly (descretely) everyone could have been made happy.
I can't comment on the specific incident you cited here, but I will say I agree wholeheartedly that a little tolerance and discretion could often prevent things turning ugly needlessly. Its very easy to do or say something that offends someone else without meaning any offense. Rather than assume someone meant to offend, why not give a little benefit of the doubt?
IMO the tendency many players have to want to SQUAWK! loudly and indignantly about anything that irks them is an aggravating factor to a situation that could be resolved easily and with no hassle.
IMO, either a quiet, polite & private chat with someone who's done or said something that upsets you, or a quiet e-mail to HTC, are both preferable actions to running here and complaining.
Just saying, FWIW ;)
culero
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Hey Culero....hows the Rio Grande Valley doing? :D
I think I told you once before in a post somewhere that I was originally from Harlingen. Anyway, I will be in the area for Christmas visiting the folks. If you want to get together for a beer or maybe join my friends and I for golf, let me know. Email in my profile should be valid.
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Originally posted by sling322
Hey Culero....hows the Rio Grande Valley doing? :D
I think I told you once before in a post somewhere that I was originally from Harlingen. Anyway, I will be in the area for Christmas visiting the folks. If you want to get together for a beer or maybe join my friends and I for golf, let me know. Email in my profile should be valid.
I'm always ready to associate with a chute shooting bastard :)
e-mail OTW, look for it or send me one ( kmyers@sc2000.net ) if ya don't get it.
culero
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Originally posted by culero
Rgr, welcome, my pleasure.
I just noticed your squad affiialtion - same MWs as from AW, right? Tell DOODY I (culero/AWAR Kelly) said "hiyas Dood" :)
culero
Rgr that Most Wanted from AW
I'm no stinkin messenger!!!! LOL j/k I'll let em know.
...or you can tell em yourself at our messageboard at
http://www.most-wanted.org ;)
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Folks.... I have to agree that what DeathPig did was horrendous!
I have a story about a little kid named Dlamba....you guys remember him? The 10 year old with the mouth of SATAN and actions to boot.
I made the mistake of allowing him to join the TIGER Squadron and all he wanted to do was attack our website and tear up vox.
He went so far as to keep hitting Join messages while I was dogfighting, swearing on private channel, etc. I called HTC. They politely said email the film.
Caught it on tape..mailed it in...30 min later...NO PROBLEMS with that kid anylonger.
Keep sending gross abuses to HTC...but dont innundate them with minor stuff.....we should police the arena and make it better for others.
------------------------------------------------------------------
TG12: "Hey La7 you stink"
SYSTEM MESSAGE: "YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR USING THAT LANGUAGE"
TG12: "Hey La7 you are a terrible pilot"
SYSTEM MESSAGE: "If you continue to use such language you will have your account cancelled"
TG12: "Hey La7 nice kill!"
SYSTEM MESSAGE: "Your account has been cancelled due to the use of La7"
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:D
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thanx guys for turning him in , he hurt me bad , and it was very rude , but now im glad its over with :)
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Mandie,
No Problem.....if it happens again Ill roll my AC130 over his house and let the guns BLAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
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Ahem.
As somebody with more time in multi-player games than say, oh, uh, HT for example, lemme say this:
Do not even try to censor the radio. I realize this exposes the weak and defenseless to profanity, but the lines will ALWAYS be too fuzzy to prevent arbitrary harassment by anybody with bwana power. The warnings and mutings are damned arbitrary, which does give people even more stuff to be offended by. :rolleyes:
I was there for the great Vermin language banning in what, 1989? He was back on a 2nd account the next Saturday. And the resulting fiasco at Kesmai when they gave Pangloss bwana privileges actually hurt business.
My recommendation is give the users more tools to administer squelching. A little squelch list editor with more options to choose from.
If there is going to be "auto-monitoring" let the USER turn it on or off. If the user has control, how many will complain to HTC?
mullah
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Originally posted by RDSaustinTX
snip
My recommendation is give the users more tools to administer squelching. A little squelch list editor with more options to choose from.
Hear hear! Persistent squelch!
culero