Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Saurdaukar on December 08, 2002, 06:56:52 PM
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With all the coverage on these boards regarding that "Taken" show, I became curious about how many people here believe in the existance of life on other worlds.
Any thoughts or interesting theories?
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interesting question. i think they exist but i don't think they've been here yet.
there's about 140-200 billion galaxies in the universe as a rough guess and ours alone has about 400 billion stars. each star could have who knows how many planets....and life seems to pop up at the slightest chance. if we were alone it'd be pretty bizarre.
i think they have the same trouble crossing the distances that we do - i dont believe in any magic mind power machines or special technology, i think they are just as stuck as we are and what a shame! the universe is pretty much the same everywhere so i doubt they'd have any special edge.
some day maybe.....
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Course they do.
The Universe is a mind bogglingly big place. To expect that we are entirely alone is staggeringly arrogant.
They might not be close, they might not be very common, but they are out there I am sure.
Gatso
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Nah, if life is so easy to do. Then why hasn't the galaxy been populate several times over? Where's the damn radio waves?
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radio waves only travel at the speed of light though. our galaxy alone is about 100,000 light years across.
the large magellanic cloud is forever away- about 180,000 light years and the andromeda galaxy even further - about 3,000,000 light years out!
do the math, it's a long way......and we've only known what a radio wave is for less than a century!
the universe is only about 12 billlion years old - it's not like they would evolve to send radio waves over night- or microwaves or any other frequency of light in a recognizable pattern.
we've a long way to go.
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Originally posted by mrfish
radio waves only travel at the speed of light though. our galaxy alone is about 100,000 light years across.
Only about 30,000 light years across.
Life has had 12,000,000,000 years to develope? Where is it?
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ET's do Exist..
With the size of the universe.. How could anyone not think that they exist?
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HEY FISH!!
God does Exist..
With the size of the universe.. How could anyone not think that he exists?
With the size of the univces and it's age...where the hell are they? Or is just this a belief? With no actual proof? Sounds like a religion to me. :D
Prove it! Prove it! Prove it! Muahahhah!
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They exist.
They are here.
No, I mean they're REALLY HERE[/g].
They were in the MA tonite.
HTC has hired them as moderators..... and they are, to listen to the very, very few snifflers in the MA....... extremely mean and aggressive persons.
Why it seem that out of this huge player base, they've warned and muted as many as a fraction of a percent over the last few months!!!!!
If that doesn't alarm you, I just wonder about you!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Only about 30,000 light years across.
what you're referencing the thinkness of the - i always grin when i say it: 'galactic bulge' not the diameter of our spiral. even then in our neighborhood the disk is about 10,000 light years thick- give or take.
;)
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Originally posted by mrfish
what you're referencing the thinkness of the - i always grin when i say it: 'galactic bulge' not the diameter of our spiral. even then in our neighborhood the disk is about 10,000 light years thick- give or take.
;)
Oh yeah! Well, according to this website, http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/MilkyWayGalaxy.html , you are right and Iam wrong.
30,000 light years is the distance from the earth to the center of the galaxy, must have been thinking "Final Frontier" or some toejam.
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you gotta admit she's pretty hot-
(http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/v_milkyway_ngc1232_02a,0.jpg)
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Simple odds are it does exist.
But the question is does it break into a civilised stage and does it survive it?
A lot of evolutionary lotto wins had to fall into place for humanity to get where it is, for example, walking upright, opposable thumbs, mastering tools, not getting wiped out by and asteroid (a la dinosaurs), having the right atmospheric conditions to develop chemical and electrical skills etc etc.
Then theres the timeline odds: an entire race might have evolved, developed, sent out radio signals, and died again and we could easily have missed it.
The odds are yes there is ET's, but the odds are extremely slim of us co-existing in the right timeframe and communicating over the distance.
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It would be very egotistical for us to believe that we are the sole form of intelligent life in the universe (that is if you consider us humans to be intelligent forms of life :)). Whether it is humanoid is up for debate, but you never know.
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silly earthling, of course we exsist
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Of course they exist. Earth isnt so special.
God does Exist..
If God exists, he doesn't take an active role in life.
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If aliens exist then they don't take an active role in life.
"It would be very egotistical for us to believe "
Oh okay, because it's EGOTISTICAL for one believe that aliens don't exist then aliens exist??
Beautiful logic there. LOL :D
Have yet to here any of you alien thumpers bring any proff of the existance of aliens. Don't forget your tin foil hats!
Fantastic how the science crowd has no problems believing in aliens that have in no way been proven to exist...but God? Well, hells no!
At least be consistant.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Have yet to here any of you alien thumpers bring any proff of the existance of aliens.
Well i double that and challenge you to prove that aliens dont exist :p
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*sips soda*
Hehehe Thrawn is an equal opportunity troll. :)
*munches popcorn*
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Nath is an ailen.
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The ET next door:
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/news/releases/2002/H02-150.html (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/news/releases/2002/H02-150.html)
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Before I believe life exists elsewhere, someone needs to prove to me that it exists here. How do I know I even exist? This is all some crazy nightmare :p
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Originally posted by funkedup
*sips soda*
Hehehe Thrawn is an equal opportunity troll. :)
*munches popcorn*
Nah, just a recovering Catholic, methinks. ;)
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Where are they? (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0009CDEA-33FC-1C74-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=2)
It's an interesting read...
FWIW... I do believe that there has to be ET's. I just don't think they've ever been here and "Taken" is a crock of toejame. Can't believe anyone (or anything) would travel this far simply to abduct George and Martha from their Rambler.
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ETIS -- extraterrestrial intelligent species
Operational definition of intelligent is "capable of communicating via radio"
Probability of finding ETIS -- 2 schools of thought
Cosmological principle -- makes the assumption of mediocrity. We live in an average "neighborhood" in the universe. There is nothing special about our location or time in history or conditions that make life possible. Therefore, one would expect to find similar conditions (and life) elsewhere in the universe.
Anthropic principle -- assumes that we exist because of very special conditions in our "neighborhood." Therefore, what we observe in our part of space is not typical of the universe as a whole, and so we shouldn't expect to find life elsewhere.
Note that both of these principles implicitly assume that ETIS would have certain similarities to us. Removing that assumption complicates these arguments somewhat.
Drake Equation (aka Greenbank Equation)
Developed by Frank Drake (at the Greenbank Observatory) in the 1960's
Tool for examining effects of various assumptions on the estimate of number of ETIS in our galaxy (but it can be applied to any part of the universe)
N = R× P× E× L× I× C× T
[numbers in brackets below indicate permitted values to use in the equation]
N = number of ETIS in our galaxy
R = rate of star formation [number/year]
Our galaxy (Milky Way) is about 10 billion yrs old and contains about 100 billion stars, so R = 10 stars/yr is the standard assumption
P = fraction of stars with planets [0-1]
E = environmental factor = number of planets in a solar system that are ecologically suitable for life [0-?]
L = fraction of planets with suitable environment where life actually did develop [0-1]
I = fraction of inhabited planets where intelligent life-form evolves [0-1]
C = fraction of planets with intelligent life that has developed radio communications [0-1]
T = time [years] that a technically developed civilization survives
Values used in the equation are somewhat subjective.
examples
optimistic outlook
R = 10, P = 1, E = 5, L = 1, I = 0.1, C = 1, T = 5000 yrs
N = 25000 ETIS
conservative outlook
R = 10, P = 1, E = 1, L = 0.1, I = 0.1, C = 0.2, T = 100 yrs
N = 2 ETIS
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Do I believe ETs exist? Well, they may exist... but they may not exist in our time.
Our planet and civilization may come to an end someday, and many other civilizations and lifeforms may have suffered a similar fate, or they may not exist yet.
The universe is a huge place, but time... there's enough time in the history of the universe to have witnessed the birth and death of many civilizations.
My guess is that if we ever receive a message from another lifeform in the universe, they will be long extinct before they get our reply.
Daniel
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If they do exist I would suggest that we not try to contact em till we can kick their ass... better than the reverse.
It matters little really.. I have seen nothing that convinces me that they have been here... I have seen no wrecks or bodies or fossils and.... it affects my life not a whit. I have had several girlfriends that were taken... so long as it had no effect on me I was willing to smile and nod and even believe that the either were or thoght they were. I also didn't care to talk about it with em since there would be no point.
lazs
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I do believe and i believe there is more than 1 Race of them.
How can you disreguard all the account from abducties who never met nor new anything about ET's and yet describe the same being and things that happed to them. You think these people are just getting crazy metallic balls stuck in the head by some accident. There is a lot of evidence out the but for the sceptic you'll never believe till your "taken"!
Remeber the FOO FIGHTERS during WW2 both sides saw them and thought they were the other sides secret wepons! And think of all the pilots here an of you guys see strang thing while up is the sky?
my 2cents and a statement that yes I believe there out there and have been here!
Here comes the flames
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it be ignorant and arrogant to think we are the only beings in this vast universe
they view us as we view a mound of fire ants
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Of course there are ET's. Hop into MA since the competition started and look at all the UFO's hovering up there at 35K :D
Seriously. they exist, haven't been here yet. They are still waiting to see if we blow ourselves up or not. No sense in wasting time contacting a species about to to into extinction...
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Let me see now, believe something that can’t or hasn’t been proven to exist…hmmm.
Maybe they do…maybe they evolved from, oh I don’t know…fish, lol or…or maybe monkeys?
Do they have fish in outer space?
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The Drake equation says that ET's probably do exist. Intelligent life that is at or past the Radio wave generation level is debatable however.
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Probably, we'll never know though...
At the very least, our own governments will hide the facts from us.
Could you imagine what would happen if the government disclosed classifed information that ET's do in fact exist and have visited our planet many times? What if those stories of abductees really is true...
The simple fact that they exist, and could abduct anyone at any point while we could do absolutely nothing about it... that'd just scare the toejam outta everyone and anyone.
I doubt any countries government would want their people to know.
-SW
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Ok, let's assume they do exist. The cultural and philosophical differences will probably be too different for us to understand them and even understand they are intelligent. And I don't speak about the probability that either Us or Them can ever meet, or even exchange information.
Leinster's "First Contact" was a very nice story for mid-40s, but it's hard to imagine species from different planets to understand each other.
The best study of a "contact" problem in a popular sci-fi book was made by Stanislaw Lem in "Fiasco", his last big fiction work. It's the book that sums up all his major novels like Magellanic Cloud, Eden, Solaris and Invincible. Agreat novel and unfortunately not as popular as his other books.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Ok, let's assume they do exist. The cultural and philosophical differences will probably be too different for us to understand them and even understand they are intelligent. ---snip---
Hehee
Just look how much trouble we have doing this with Boroda!
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Originally posted by Apache
Let me see now, believe something that can’t or hasn’t been proven to exist…hmmm.
Maybe they do…maybe they evolved from, oh I don’t know…fish, lol or…or maybe monkeys?
Do they have fish in outer space?
LOL! this is some rich material. yeah, apache- you see beings can only evolve from fish so unless they have fish on other planets i guess you are right. damn!
guess it is just us all alone with an angry god after all. he created all this universe just to hide around this one little rock and fuss over us and make sure we spend our days acknowledging his 'superocity'. what was i thinking!
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Originally posted by mrfish
LOL! this is some rich material. yeah, apache- you see beings can only evolve from fish so unless they have fish on other planets i guess you are right. damn!
guess it is just us all alone with an angry god after all. he created all this universe just to hide around this one little rock and fuss over us and make sure we spend our days acknowledging his 'superocity'. what was i thinking!
ah, but you assume. Have you asked one of the little grey guys? Maybe God fusses over them too. I bet they even have a picture of him in thier little flyin' saucers...whatcha think?
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for communication......intellectu al
1- younger civilization....can't communicate.
2- equal civilization.....distance is the problem...to big
3- more advanced.....maybe they are here...they just don't want us newbie's to now:p
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Hehee
Just look how much trouble we have doing this with Boroda!
Exactly what I meant! ;)
Idea for a sci-fi novel: different alien races contact with different nations that are "culturally" closer to them, maybe Russians, Arabs, Chineese, Americans and Germans. Or just "europeans", "chineese" and "moslims" - this will be even better.
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Originally posted by Apache
ah, but you assume. Have you asked one of the little grey guys? Maybe God fusses over them too. I bet they even have a picture of him in thier little flyin' saucers...whatcha think?
yeah well if they show up with little virgin marys stuck to the dashboard of their saucers i'll be the first to condcede. ;)
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Originally posted by mrfish
yeah well if they show up with little virgin marys stuck to the dashboard of their saucers i'll be the first to condcede. ;)
rofl!
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I believe life exists on other worlds, intelligent life most likely. Hell I think there is a chance of life on Europa for instance under the ice. Most likely will be an algae or lichen of some sort.
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Aliens exist! And they are turning everyone into a scotman!
Go get me a spoon! :D
Daniel
PS: Only for Pythonists
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Of course they exist!! And they're working with left-over Nazis', the Rand Corp and the UN to take over the world!!!!
"...Another figure has an EVIL face... 'HE LOOKS LIKE A GERMAN NAZI. HE'S A NAZI... HIS EYES! HIS EYES. I'VE NEVER SEEN EYES LIKE THAT BEFORE!!!"
The above quote was made under regressive hypnosis by one of the first publicized 'UFO abductees', Barney Hill who -- along with his wife Betty -- claimed to have been abducted by grey-skinned entities from a space craft which apparently originated from the Zeta II Reticuli star system. The Grey alien abductors were obviously working with the human military officer who was encountered by Barney. This military officer was apparently a full-fledged Nazi, although this incident took place over 15 years after Europe had 'supposedly' been de-Nazified. This quote can be found in the paranormal encyclopedia "MYSTERIES OF THE MIND, TIME & SPACE", p. 1379.
Those who are familiar with the connections between Nazi's and UFO's may find the following document easier to accept than those who have never been introduced to the reports of secret Nazi aerial disk experiments, much less reports of their secret collaboration with the so-called Grey aliens years before the corporate-fascist infiltrators and sympathizers within the U.S. Intelligence Agencies began making their own treaties with these same serpentine 'aliens'.
From The Omega File (http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/omega.html)
But don't tell them I told you. ;)
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Let's see if I understand the reasoning in the following statement:
"If God exists he doesn't take an active role in life."
A statement commonly used by atheists to throw doubt on the existence of God. He doesn't take an active role in our lives therefore he does not exist.
On the other hand, God may be a Gentleman, and is too polite to interfere in our lives. As an atheist, you don't want Him telling you what you can and cannot do anyway. The Ten Commandments may be His attempt to help us keep from screwing up our lives.
Shuckins
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Originally posted by H. Godwineson
A statement commonly used by atheists to throw doubt on the existence of God. He doesn't take an active role in our lives therefore he does not exist.
On the other hand, God may be a Gentleman, and is too polite to interfere in our lives. As an atheist, you don't want Him telling you what you can and cannot do anyway. The Ten Commandments may be His attempt to help us keep from screwing up our lives.
He had no problem destroying several cities in biblical times.... what's stopping him now?
Did he make himself morals?
Hell, he talked to a helluva lotta people in biblical times... now who does he talk to?
The crazies on the streetcorners?
-SW
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Like i said in my other post earlier in this thread they are here, theres too many people from too many different cultures, places, and yatta yatta yatta that report the same things - some rural living people with no TV or none reading(illiterate) people who all report the same things. Even in the bible and other biblical type sources they tell of seeing these same things. Look back at the native americans and the Incan's the Mayan's the Nazca lines.
Personaly in my opinion were are the fruit flies in there experiment and they have "test sample" people they keep track of.(atleast the greys,like i said there is more than 1 race of beings)
There are goverments who ecknowledge the presents of these other beings. (in europe)
There is prof. you just have to wade thru the BS to get the the solid evidance.
Ok Now that im the only crack pot to stand up and say Yes i believe there are here i most graciously accept the flames that shall follow!:D
If you believe in god but dont beleive in them you better think twice about your god he might be a short lil grey diddlyer!
After all that there is more prof they exsist then there is that God does!
Box;)
PS i really am curious where all the pilots (military or not) are on this ? do they fear being called crazy? I know more have seen toejam that wont say a thing about it!
My brother for one is an Air force pilot and now flies for United - Hes told me he's seen toejam! STRANGE toejam TOO and this is comming from a guy who graduated HS 1st in his class and the Air force academy 4th in his class! You tell me ......... :rolleyes:
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The inevitable arrival of the religious prompts another question:
Have any of you considered that religion is man's attempt to explain an ET visit thousands of years ago?
Strange beings from the sky...
Arriving on "chariots of fire..."
Supernatural powers...
They told us to follow these rules...
They will be back someday...
If we're naughty people, they wont take us back with them to "Heaven..."
Theres alot of weight to this theory IMO - some really good books written on it.
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the Navajo's have talked of the ancient ones with whom communicated with the(others) through the portals in the desert, there are places today they will not go . they know. yes they do exist.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Exactly what I meant! ;)
Idea for a sci-fi novel: different alien races contact with different nations that are "culturally" closer to them, maybe Russians, Arabs, Chineese, Americans and Germans. Or just "europeans", "chineese" and "moslims" - this will be even better.
Boroda now you sound like something from the Stargate television series. Personally I think they could exist but I don't discount the fact that we have no hard evidence. They could have come here and gone many times over but I really am not sure. My grandmom still believes the Blackhawk helicopters and Apache's that have flown out of Ft. Rucker, AL running attack simulations around her home were UFO's. Even when she watched one fly right over her house while I was cutting the grass one day.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
The inevitable arrival of the religious prompts another question:
Have any of you considered that religion is man's attempt to explain an ET visit thousands of years ago?
Strange beings from the sky...
Arriving on "chariots of fire..."
Supernatural powers...
They told us to follow these rules...
They will be back someday...
If we're naughty people, they wont take us back with them to "Heaven..."
Theres alot of weight to this theory IMO - some really good books written on it.
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we are the aliens attempt at cloning and abortion :)
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I seriously doubt life does exist, at least intelligent.
But if if it did, what makes us think they may be using radio waves to commaunicate, and noises like humans do?
Who says they are even in a living form, or have eyes or mouths? Muchless communicate verbally?? Maybe they are invisible? Maybe they are 1000times more advanced than us, but are a billions of times smaller that we could never see?
My point is, we cant think different, we make so many assumptions its unbeleivable,
For example, In america we assume Ham Burgers are boneless, but in europe (at least in croatia anyway) when u order a hamburger from mcdonalds its got bones!
We search for what we have in our mind as alliens, and that I very very very very seriously doubt exists.
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all I gotta say..
I have an Uncle who is a retired Lieutenant Colonel from the Air Force. Whenever I ask him about "Area 51" and other oddities, he gets really upset and changes the subject abruptly.
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cajun: But if if it did, what makes us think they may be using radio waves to commaunicate, and noises like humans do?
Who says they are even in a living form, or have eyes or mouths? Muchless communicate verbally?? Maybe they are invisible? Maybe they are 1000times more advanced than us, but are a billions of times smaller that we could never see?
Of course they would. If they are Created by God in his image, they would be very similar to us.
If they evolve - they will operate on the same principals being in the universe with the same physical and chemical laws.
They will be in contact with things, able to feel local pressure so the sense of touch will be evolved early in the evolution in any multicellular organism of certain complexity.
They will contact solid things, so they will have provisions to analyse their chemical content - hence the sense of taste. A living form does not so much evolve ability to perceive chemical content as it is originally posessing it and evolves ability to isolate itself from the environment. An amoeba has no choice but to "taste" environment.
If existing in a gas athmosphere it will develop, or rather retain teh ability to feel chemical composition, hence taste of smell. It is highly unlikely for intelligence to develop underwater because the fire is impossible there.
Radiated electromagnetic energy is present on any planet where conditions for life above primitive level exist - hence it will have eyesight.
Sense of touch and sound are closely related. So they will have hearing and because of that will develop ability to use sounds. Sounds are easy to produce, do not require line-of-sight, basically extremely usefull not to evolve the use for them.
So touch, taste, smell, hearing and sight. If they have any other nice sense like electrical sensitivity like some of our fish, not a big deal.
Most of nifty organs earth life has evolved multiple times - like various types of eyes evolved at least forty times independently.
There are only so many basic principles you can base life on.
As for ET - in order for us to hear their radio signal, it should be comparable in power to a star. Why would they ever bother to undertake such a project if a recepient would receive the message, let alone reply to it in thousands of years?
miko
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AKS\/\/ulfe,
Sodom and Gomorrha are the only two cities mentioned specifically in the Bible as being destroyed by an act of God. Their societies were destroyed because of their depravity. Think of their destruction as an attempt to destroy a cancer before it spread.
Or, think of it this way. Ancient people tended to see the hand of God in every natural disaster. If He destroyed a city or Pharaoh's army it was because they had aroused His anger by unGodly actions...or, at least, that's how these ancient people saw it.
Personally, I believe that the understanding of God and his purpose is an ongoing thing, evolving (no cracks please) as the ages have gone by, ultimately reaching perfection in the teachings of Jesus Christ, who preached love, tolerance, and service to one's fellow man. A very worthwhile philosophy, despite any criticisms to the contrary.
Shuckins
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Like i said in my other post earlier in this thread they are here, theres too many people from too many different cultures, places, and yatta yatta yatta that report the same things - some rural living people with no TV or none reading(illiterate) people who all report the same things. Even in the bible and other biblical type sources they tell of seeing these same things. Look back at the native americans and the Incan's the Mayan's the Nazca lines.
Personaly in my opinion were are the fruit flies in there experiment and they have "test sample" people they keep track of.(atleast the greys,like i said there is more than 1 race of beings)
There are goverments who ecknowledge the presents of these other beings. (in europe)
There is prof. you just have to wade thru the BS to get the the solid evidance.
Ok Now that im the only crack pot to stand up and say Yes i believe there are here i most graciously accept the flames that shall follow!:D
If you believe in god but dont beleive in them you better think twice about your god he might be a short lil grey diddlyer!
After all that there is more prof they exsist then there is that God does!
Box;)
PS i really am curious where all the pilots (military or not) are on this ? do they fear being called crazy? I know more have seen toejam that wont say a thing about it!
My brother for one is an Air force pilot and now flies for United - Hes told me he's seen toejam! STRANGE toejam TOO and this is comming from a guy who graduated HS 1st in his class and the Air force academy 4th in his class! You tell me ......... :rolleyes:
Did they ram that implant too far up your nose? There's more proof that aliens exist than God?
Can't wait to see the list.
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I don't really believe in UFOs. I believe in extraterrestrial civilizations and that some have star travel capabilities, but that's it, I don't trust any reports of people seing lights in the sky, and everything captured on video or film is probably fake.
I read many books on the subject and finally realized it was all crap. So I gave up on it. Untill I see one, I remain a sceptic.
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Originally posted by H. Godwineson
AKS\/\/ulfe,
Sodom and Gomorrha are the only two cities mentioned specifically in the Bible as being destroyed by an act of God. Their societies were destroyed because of their depravity. Think of their destruction as an attempt to destroy a cancer before it spread.
Shuckins
Didn't He do the global thingy with Noah & the ark?
Or was that a local issue? :)
I have to take some things in the Bible not literally but as a parable of types with a message for the masses.
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Continuing on my topic that the develpment of ET civilisation will parallel ours. They will most likely develop socialism and stagnate - their population being lazy and uninterested and not explanding. They will stay home.
If anyone takes off for the starts - practically forming another civilisation because they will never see each other again, those will be some religious nuts not interested in contacting anyone or even settling on a "used" planet.
miko
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"It is likely that the meeting of two alien civilizations will lead to the subordination of one by the other." - D. K. Stern, 1975
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Bah, they got a computer. Stuck an AI in it. Had it design a more powerful computer. Repeat. The whole Moores law thing.
Have the AI do other research, in a very short time you have all the answers to the unvierse.
The aliens leave behind there bodies and become energy. Cripes how far away do you think humans are from reaching this state.
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I think there is a theorem that a computer (or a brain) can not design (or fully comprehend) a computer (or brain) which is more complex than itself.
Also, if you think about how we define god(s), I think an incredibly powerful alien with abilities far beyond our own would be hard to distinguish from a god. They made a movie on that topic, 2001: Space Odyssey.
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That does not sound reasonable. The recipy according to which our brain is created - the genetic code encrypted in DNA and processed by a biological analog of a computer is only magabytes. At the same time complexity of a brain is expressed in numbers many orders of magnitude higher.
A simple computer program can produce enourmously more complex data. So a reasinably-complex computer and software could produce a very-complex system. Add a bit of randomness, simulation of what we know about organisation and function of the brain and evolution and who knows where it leads.
It may not be analog to a human brain, but on the comparable level of complexity.
Of course it may be argued that this process may not be strictly referred to as "design"...
miko
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Originally posted by Apache
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Originally posted by miko2d
Of course it may be argued that this process may not be strictly referred to as "design"...
Yes.
To fully simulate (and design) a human body, you need a computer which is much more complex than the one needed to store the DNA sequence. You need a computer with a register for every quantum state of every atom in the body. Which makes the computer obviously at least as complex as the human body.
A relatively simple computer could deal with the DNA sequence. But to determine the effects of changes in the DNA sequence (the basis of the design process) you need a computer with sufficient complexity to analyze the whole body.
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Same goes for computers. Let's say I'm simulating a computer with 64k RAM. To fully simulate this computer, my simulation requires a computer with at least 64k RAM. 64k RAM just to represent the RAM in the computer being simulated, plus more memory for the overhead of running the simulation.
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Shuckins, I was thinking Noah and the Ark.
Then there was the whole deal with the plagues and other such things. Locusts destroying the land, frogs falling from the skies.
-SW
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
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Originally posted by Thrawn
If aliens exist then they don't take an active role in life.
"It would be very egotistical for us to believe "
Oh okay, because it's EGOTISTICAL for one believe that aliens don't exist then aliens exist??
Beautiful logic there. LOL :D
I guess I don't understand what you are saying.
Oh well, I guess it would be pointless for me to also state that I think it is incredibly egotistical of us to think that aliens would actually find us interesting enough to take an active interest in.
Do I think there are aliens out there? Sure, why not? Do I think all these people that are getting "abducted" really are? Probably not.
Even more important:
Do I really give a rat's bellybutton if there are aliens? Not in the least*
*unless of course the aliens turn out to be like the ones in Independence Day, then I will burn those little (or big) toejams to the ground and rape their female aliens (assuming they have sexes like we do) on their burned carcasses while smoking a fat cigar in their crazy cool spaceships and blowing up their mothership by using a Macintosh. If those little turds look like ET, I will eat their glowing hearts (assuming they have a circulatory system similar to ours and their blood is not acid like those bugs in the Aliens movies) while their last bit of life drains out their big gaping wounds caused by my big bellybutton BFG from Quake. If the aliens are like those lamer Ewoks from Star Wars, I will kill them, grill them, eat them, and then hunt down George Lucas for creating such a stupid menace that is only marginally worse than his greatest blunder, Jar Jar. If they are like Mr. Spock, I will show him naked pictures of Rosie O'Donnel naked and ask him if logic can explain that. Then I will drink his blood after his head explodes trying to explain it. Now, if those aliens are like the aliens in Aliens, I will run for my life and die tired. Those things scare the piss out of me.
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MT,
Can't totally agree with your statement about there being little chance of civilizations that have advanced beyond radio-wave technology.
According to Alan Guth, one of the leading physicists of our time, the Big Bang which created our universe was the result of a false vacuum. This theory is accepted by the scientific community as fact.
However, cosmologists Andrei Linde, Alexander Vilenkin, and others have expanded the premises of the false vacuum which led to our inflationary universe. They speculate that the decay of the false vacuum does not happen at once. While some regions decay into universes, other regions keep expanding and creating other universes. Residual false vacuum from the creation of those universes creates still others, indefinitely. They call this the "eternally existing, self-reproducing inflationary universe." Guth contends that this scenario is not only possible, it seems like a sure thing. He predicts that "any cosmological theory that does not lead to the eternal reproduction of universes will be considered as unimaginable as a species of bacteria that cannot reproduce."
Guth further states that inflationary universes need not be natural. In his view, an advanced race could harness the engines of inflation and create a whole cosmos from scratch. It is possible, therefore, that our universe could be such a creation. This would seem to negate the idea that time began with the creation of our own universe and also raises a number of questions about the "continuing" evolution of life. There is, for instance, the possibility that certain civilizations have advanced beyond "radio wave technology."
What do you think?
Regards, Shuckins
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Cool stuff Shuckins.
I was commenting directly on the Drake equation however.
I will look into that though, thanks.
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Originally posted by H. Godwineson
This theory is accepted by the scientific community as fact.
no, it's not accepted as "fact". if you're going to speak on behalf of the scientific community you should be more careful about your wording. even the higgs field isn't accepted as "fact".
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the little grey men are simply humans from our future. That is why they have the huminoid form and are also beyond secretive in their nature. They may be historians or anthropologists from the earth a couple of hundred million years into the future.
still sounds ridiculous doesnt it?
How about aliens with lifespans in the tens of thousands of years, or hundreds of thousands of years (who knows the limitations of life on some alien world), with a life span like that (and God only knows what perception of the passing of time) travelling at light speed might not be such a slow pace to get somewhere.
also pretty fantastic eh?
actually there is this all knowing being that directs and instructs humankind in every little thing they do and think. (or so my fundamentalist christian friends seem to think)
also pretty ridiculous eh?
Or maybe you guys might want to check out the multiuniverse theory that some physicists are into.
also pretty far out....
who was it that said "the only thing i know for sure...is that I know nothing for sure"? or something along those lines???
musta been a pretty clever fella.