Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on December 10, 2002, 06:08:53 AM
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First things first: Creamo, piss off.
Having got that out of the way, we can begin!
Reading through these boards over the last few weeks/months, it seems that the UK is often accused of being a nanny state. I wonder if those propagating those ideas have ever visited Britain, as such suggestions more often seem to be substantiated by quotes from sources like the Guardian newspaper. A more balanced view can be achieved by visiting both countries.
In the case of motor vee-hickles, I believe the opposite is true. I think American drivers are nannied more than we are. If you know different, please post back here! I have a feeling you will :)
Let’s consider a normal/average American car. I do believe that in most US states, the wearing of seat belts is obligatory, just as it has been here since 1983 – cuts hospital workload, but has led to a shortage of organ donors. I can remember hiring an American vee-hickle which had a most bizarre seatbelt mechanism. When I opened the driver’s door, I found that the seatbelt had got caught on the door – no, wait – it was actually attached to the door. The guy that was with me said “it’s OK, just get in and close the door”. And when I did, the seatbelt kind of ran round a track mounted on the door, so as to finish up behind my left shoulder! “That’s to stop you from forgetting to wear your seatbelt”, I was told. WTF!? But what about the all important lap belt? Ah, that still has to be fastened manually. :confused: Oh, great. The lap belt is arguably more important. In a crash without a lap belt, my lower body would be unrestrained and slide forward, and my neck might well finish with the diagonal belt wrapped round it! Nice going. But I had to admit the “automatic” seatbelt was a novel idea, even if crap. When I reverse a car, I typically release the seatbelt so that I can turn my body to look out the rear window. Not an option on this vee-hickle, as Nanny has decided that I must wear my shoulder belt at all times, even for reversing. :rolleyes:
Next order of business is to check that all mirrors are adjusted properly. Drivers door mirror OK, rear view mirror set to day view mode and adjusted OK, and... what’s this on the passenger side door mirror? Objects in Mirror are closer than they appear... ? Ah yes, it’s actually quite a good idea, that mirror. It is a convex mirror to give a wider angle of view, but of course objects in a convex mirror look small from a distance, and grow quite quickly as they approach. I remember pissing about with mirrors in Physics lessons at school, and learning about their various properties. In the US, they recognise that not everyone did Physics at school, and so a driver will be reminded of the properties of a convex mirror every time he/she drives. LOL! Thank you, Nanny. :rolleyes:
Hehe – two nannyisms, and we haven’t even moved yet! Well, I only have to put in the key and turn it ready to start, and the car starts chiming – probably to remind me to fasten the other half of that seatbelt. The engine starts first time, but then I notice a sign that says something like ”apply footbrake before shifting out of Park”. On an automatic car, that makes perfect sense, otherwise the car might well start creeping forward, assuming DRIVE had been selected. But Nanny doesn’t trust the driver to have an ounce of sense, and there’s a sign to tell you to apply the footbrake before shifting out of Park. Not only that, but there’s a locking mechanism that physically prevents the transmission lever being shifted from PARK until you HAVE got your foot on the brake! Thank you, Nanny. :rolleyes:
Three nannyings, and we haven’t even moved yet. But things are looking up. Driving in the US is generally quite good. I like the road system there, but the speed limits are a bit draconian in places. I always remember that federally mandated double nickel, the 55mph speed limit – anywhere in the US. That has now gone, but other speed limits remain, and are rigorously enforced. Along an urban road, it might be 35mph, but with a sign saying that it’s 20mph when children are present. Well I would have thought it makes perfect sense to slow down when children are present. They’re often talking to each other and not paying attention to the road, or else they have a personal stereo stuck in their ears and do not hear approaching traffic. But even if you do not agree, Nanny has spoken – you will reduce speed to 20mph. I love those yellow school buses, with the side mounted stop sign. :D Damned sensible idea, actually.
After driving about 100 miles, my relaxation is disturbed by three frantic chimes from the car. I’m low on gas. Or at least the car thinks so. I don’t like to trust fuel gauges on unknown cars (unless it’s a German or Japanese car) so I refuel, and then realise that there was actually a quantity of around six gallons of fuel remaining when the car chimed. But better to be safe. Now here’s a surprise. I like to read the driver’s handbook of a car I don’t know – to find out things like the grade of fuel to be used and where the filler release is... but what’s this? A book the size of the New Testament! Everything you could want to know is in there – even instructions on how to drive – LOL! It even advises against driving after drinking, and describes the problem of drink-driving as ”America’s National Tragedy”. That’s weird. The Yanks keep insinuating that alcohol is a UK problem. Well, I did my own research and will come back to this later. Then I get to the part about driving on remote roads. The manual cautions against allowing the car to drift from the paved area onto the ground at the side of the road. Duh! Talk about stating the bleedin’ obvious. :rolleyes: But then the text goes on to advise what to do if that happens! ”Carefully steer the vee-hickle back towards the roadway until all four wheels are on the paved area”. ROFL! Can you imagine it – John and Jane are out for a Sunday afternoon spin, when John allows the vee-hickle to leave the paved area. John: ”Gee, Honey, I plumb let the car roll into the dirt here. Would you hand me the driver’s manual so I can figure out what to do about this?” Jane:”Why no, Honey. I need to read up on how to open the glove compartment”. ;)
The text goes on to say that if the drop between the roadway and the ground at the side is more than four inches, the situation is more serious. ”This can result in a hazardous condition”, proffers the text. LOL! No kidding! No further advice is offered, and probably none needed... Oh well, Nanny did her best. :rolleyes:
I always wonder what all the fuss is about speed limits. On some state roads (similar to an English B road or minor A road without dual carriageway), the limit might be 55mph. But up ahead lie some curves. There will be one or more signs advising of the existence of the curves, but in addition to that, the speed limit is reduced to 50mph – just for those curves – and then goes back to 55mph. Why? Isn’t the driver allowed to figure out that if there are curves that he might need to slow down? Apparently not. Nanny has the last word!
Back to that alcohol thing. It’s unwise to drive after drinking, I’m sure you will agree. But thousands of people on both sides of the Atlantic do just that, and many deaths result each year. I was interested to know HOW many, and it would seem that US alcohol related vee-hickle accidents far exceed those here in the UK. This (http://www.ntsb.gov/ITSA/us_alcohol_related_traffic_death.htm) is a link I found that said that US alcohol related road deaths in 1997 had dropped to an all time low - a mere 16,189. And this (http://www.ias.org.uk/pressapr98.htm) is a document that seems to indicate that in the UK there were 540 alcohol related road deaths - c1998. These were a couple of Google searches I did. Allowing for the disparity of the UK/US population size, it seems to me at first glance that the US has about eight times as many alcohol related road deaths as we do! And that's despite the fact that Nanny says you can't drink alcohol until age 21. But...
...alcohol in a bottle sitting on a shelf is not responsible for an accident! Hehe - over to Mr. Toad at the Ministry of Silly Stats. :D
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Lol
Try driving in Boston rush hour traffic and then see if we're 'nannied' too much
<----step 17 in MA
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beetle can you make shorter post please :p
some of us have to translate ... and I got lost after the 3rd paragraph :D
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Wow beetle... totally assenine rambling. I'm amazed at the amount of time you spend looking so completely idiotic. Yet you do it post after post after post.
AKDejaVu
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Whats your point?
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Reading through these boards over the last few weeks/months, it seems that the UK is often accused of being a nanny state. I wonder if those propagating those ideas have ever visited Britain, as such suggestions more often seem to be substantiated by quotes from sources like the Guardian newspaper. A more balanced view can be achieved by visiting both countries.
FWIW, I don't really believe the UK is a nanny state per se, though from your postings here I infer you wish America to be a nanny state. Unwittingly you have become the poster child for what conservative Americans dislike so intently about liberal Americans- you possess an obsessive need to force people who are content with their laws and regulations to live as you want them to live, despite the fact their lives have nothing to do with you.
Toad's attempts to make you see the ludicrous nature of your arguments has fallen on deaf ears, it seems. It would also seem that sidelong glance many Americans give you when you talk is very familiar to you, as it is probably given to you quite often at home in the UK. ;)
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His point, K98k, is a weak attempt to rebut Toad's "Knife Danger" thread. The irony is Toad is likely against everything Beetle posted, and wouldn't defend any of it as Beetle suggested. In addition, most of the items listed were enacted by industry as a result of lawsuits.
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Driving in the states is like parking ur car. Or should i better say car = rolling cupholder sofas.
If u really wanna feel a ride u should drive car in Rome or Paris.
THe france people drive car like the morning will never come :)
I like it :) :)
Italie is actually the worst car driving country ive ever been.
Getting out of Rome without a ditch is really hard lol.
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Yup...Beet1e get a big :rolleyes: for this.
If you want to fight with Toad do it by e-mail please.
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Originally posted by straffo
beetle can you make shorter post please :p
some of us have to translate ... and I got lost after the 3rd paragraph :D
Heck I didnt have to translate and still got lost after the 3rd paragraph :)
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You’re right. However, this stuff isn't for the average American. It’s there because we let foreigners drive here without testing them.
Btw-speaking of driving. I have a new invention I need to get patented.
I was watching the news the other day and they where talking about disposable cell phones- Made from a cardboard like material, You can only call out on them, and you throw it away when the minutes are used up.-Mainly for car emergencies.
Anyway, my idea is a disposable cell phone made of a brick like material that only takes incoming calls. That way, when I finally get around that P.O.S. doing 54 mph in the fast lane for 45 miles I can throw the brick through his window and then call him and explain exactly what is wrong with his driving.
"Lead, Follow, or just Get Out of the Damn Way"
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I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
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very weak beetle... Every one of the things that you mentioned except mandatory seatbelts are..... litigation issuses... that's right... they are there to preent litigation. They are not "mandated" even the shoulder issue was a result of litigation... A woman claimed that her crash was caused because she couldn't fight back onto the roadway after "dropping" off the shoulder.
don't tell me about nannies inthe U.S. I belong to several Hot Rod international groups... look at the variety of Old cars and Hot Rods in America.... Ever wonder why you don't see many modified cars in limey land? Nanny says they are not good for you. Your laws on what you can and can't own, much less drive, on public roads is much more restrictive and nanny like. I drove about 1200 miles there and the blandness of the cars was mind numbing.
If your point was that you are more controlled by nannies than we are even while in your own car then... you made your point.
lazs
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Originally posted by SOB
I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
LMAO!
Cobra
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When did goats become such a big issue.
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Funniest thing about that post.
I had one of those "American automatic seat belt cars" ---- It was a Mazda.
:rolleyes:
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Guys when was the last time you saw a car that had the auto seat belts?
Not one of my cars has anything other then a buzzer for if you leave the keys in or lights on and turn of the ignition.
This post would have been really funny if it had been like 3 paragraphs shorter.
Is it me or is Beetle like the kid in school who thinks everyone likes him, but everyone really despises him, and they do not even hide it, but he keeps on going like everyone things he is great?
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I needed your invention this morning, when some dumb woman ran me off the road!
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beet1e,
First, some of the laws that regulate behaviour of people not affecting others are clearly freedom-limiting and unnecessary intrusion.
Seatbelt laws are prime example of such. Speed limits are as clearly not - as the speed with which you drive affects the risk to other people.
Now to problems with your article:
1. ...as Nanny has decided that I must wear my shoulder belt at all times, even for reversing.
Every such "automatic" belt that I've ever seen has a latch where it is attached to the door - so you can release it and even leave it out - if you don't mind a reminder light on your dashboard. In fact not providing a latch would have been a major safety and law violation - it would prevent a person from hetting away or being rescued from a car if a door is stuck.
You must feel very stupid here ranting about our stupidity and not noticing that red release button right next to your ear. :D :D :D
2. It is a convex mirror to give a wider angle of view
It is only obvious from a very close examination - even by touch the mirror seems flat. Some mirrors have convex inner reflecting surface and perfectly flat outer surface.
3. In the US, they recognise that not everyone did Physics at school, and so a driver will be reminded of the properties of a convex mirror
Absolutely true, why would it be a "nannyism", if by nannyism you mean an unreasonable intrusion?
4. ”apply footbrake before shifting out of Park”
You will have to prove to me that it's a state initiative rather than an auto-manufacturer trying to prevent people from yanking the lever off.
You should know that the requirements for obtaining a driver license are very liberal here - you do not need any formal education. Reading a 15-page booklet, "studying" the meaning of all 5 road signs used in US and answering 75% of 20 questions is enough to get a learner's permit. The driving test is very easy. Drive, stop, park - in some places not even a real parallel park required. Some people pass it with all of half an hour experience.
5. But even if you do not agree, Nanny has spoken – you will reduce speed to 20mph.
You are confusing that with a local regulation. I can apply and get a speed-bump installed on my street without any involvement from federal or even state government. Try not to agree with that!
6. A book the size of the New Testament! Everything you could want to know is in there...
Usually there is a concise section on "getting started" and a table of content.
7. Isn’t the driver allowed to figure out that if there are curves that he might need to slow down? Apparently not.
What if he figures that he can take the turn at 75 mph? 90mph? Loses control and hits otehr vehicles? I want to be protected from other people using the public roadways for dangerous experiments. Why would anyone have a problem with that?
Gues what, one is not allowed to shoot my rifle at the street in Brookly even though he may be pretty sure of not hitting anyone!
8. These were a couple of Google searches I did. Allowing for the disparity of the UK/US population size, it seems to me at first glance that the US has about eight times as many alcohol related road deaths as we do!
You really cannot be as stupid as that! I bet Mongolia has even better alcohol-related traffic accidents per population than UK!
Have you ever though that traffic accidents may somehow relate to the percentage of car ownership or, better yet, miles travelled by car or even better - time spent travelling in a car?
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In 1997, total vehicle miles traveled by automobiles in Japan, France, Germany, Sweden, Italy, Canada, and the United Kingdom combined equaled 1.6 trillion. In that same year, total vehicle miles traveled by automobiles alone in the US were 1.4 trillion. U.S. households spend, on average, 19 percent of their income on transportation.
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The numbers show per-capita miles travelled ~5500 in UK vs about ~10,000 in US. The time disparity is probably even greater. US stats are worse that UK but not nearly 8-fold. And it's very regional - which is known and reflected in our insurance rates.
If you live in an area where "diversity" presence is significant, you can pay $3,000 a year for liability insurance which would cost you $600 in an area 20 miles away.
There are very diffent people living in US.
miko
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dudes..i was not the least bit offended by the post. I think it is some funny stuff.
just remember that some of this is to protect the car makers from morons suing them (as someone else already stated)
here in America we have a bunch of whiners who sit waiting for some law suit to drop into their laps. its friggin' pathetic. And this doesnt even include all the lazy fat tulips on disability because their back is supposedly "out". (no offense to the folks with real disabilities, its just that in my life I have met quite a few folks who are "disabled" but still manage to take care of their daily lives, tend the yard, shop, etc...but are supposedly too disabled to sit behind a desk and do some kind of work)
hell...i bet i could get copies of all my crazy, ranting posts from HTC and submit them to social security and get a check from the government..LOL
actually something else funny: my ex wifes sister had a boyfriend who was supposedly so stupid he got an SSI check. He seemed like the average west virginian to me, but was able to get a free ride for being dumb. this did not stop her from leaving their three kids with him and going running around all day with her friends. LOL.
isnt life a great big fat muther F ing mystery?
oops got off the topic of nannying. sorry.
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I got as far as "Creamo piss off"
that's a new record for me with a beet1e post.
:)
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Originally posted by SOB
I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
ROFLOL! :D
You should copyright that or something
mauser
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When I reverse a car, I typically release the seatbelt so that I can turn my body to look out the rear window.
Wha? :confused:
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Originally posted by SOB
I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
is that bad? not like i care but i have a friend who...errr...
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ROFL! 23 replies - I didn't know this old tackle had that many hooks. Great to hear from you all, guys - I'll reply as best as I can.
Straffo! Use a translator - http://translation.langenberg.com/
Kieran! Bollocks, as usual.
Lazs - Ever wonder why you don't see many modified cars in limey land?
No, I already know the answer to that. American cars are crap, whereas the cars here are built properly in the first place - ROFL!
GTO! - everyone really despises him
Awwww, you don't really mean that. What have I ever said to upset you, except rant about firearms related homicides?
Miko! Good reply! Mr. Toad has not yet replied, but no doubt he will be quoting the UK's alcohol related death toll on the roads from the Guardian newspaper archives. That's why I didn't research it that thoroughly myself - but you can't deny the figures. :eek:
Hey, wait a minute - where is Toad? I hope his airline has not gone belly up and left him stranded thousands of miles from home. I don't think he works for UAL, as they fly to LHR and I know Toad doesn't.
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Originally posted by SOB
I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
ROTFLMAO!
Good one!
eskimo
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Kieran! Bollocks, as usual.
Just you wait! I'm preparing a treatise on how the British can live better and more fulfilling lives (despite the fact I don't live there and have no clue about the culture), replete with statistical quotes from Home Office. Oh! Oh! Then you'll be proud of me. :D
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nuttin's gonna' top SOB's reply.
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Tried to O.D. on the Cold-Eeze
"Golden Girls" got me "Sweatin' To The Oldies"
Hanging out like Double Ds, sip Long Island Iced Teas
Wrote to Mayor McCheese "Send a Shamrock Shake please!"
Three O' Clock on the dot, time to cruise for Eighth graders
Rather tape the Weather Channel so that I can watch it later
Reruns of Rerun so "What's Happening?"
Dee's knocked up and Rog's on crack again
Deep throat a whole Nutty Buddy
Make whoopie to a batch of Silly Putty
Make a Spam and Colgate sandwich and ate it
Go through "National Geographic" and draw panties on the natives
So I like to dance naked in front of my pets
But my cat was inattentive so I sent him U.P.S.
Playin' spin the bottle with my mom
I watch "Cops" with no pants on
Must've blown a fuse nothing's going on
Lamer than the Pope, climb the walls like King Kong
Buggin' out like Tori Spelling's eyes
Deader than the parents on a "Party of Five"
Luciano Pavoratti on a treadmill
Not going nowhere slim chance we will
Less hip than Bo Jackson bored like wood
Dick around like Frankie Goes To Hollywood
Relax don't do it when you wanna go to it
Relax don't do it when you wanna cum
Relax don't do it when you wanna go to it
Relax don't do it when you wanna cum
Nowhere to go, I can't wake up late
Just sit around and wait for my Old Spice to activate
Stalemate jailbait in "My So-Called Life" imprisonment
Amazing what a good breakfast pickles make isn't it?
I like to pretend I'm speed reading
Never lose the sight of the thrill of sneezing
Don't need a shower today just some Brut by Faberge
Smell the bellybutton of my jeans - clean, they'll do another day
And I recycle - I sniff my own farts
I dial the wrong number, hope a conversation starts
I mean I might as well be listenin' to Journey
Givin' myself a mullet, hook the Flowbee to the Kirby
Make a prank call pretendin' I'm a mime
Get stuck in traffic just to pass the time
Sent a letter in the mail in Braille to Johnny Quest
Send me back my Etch-A-Sketch
Must've blown a fuse nothing's going on
Lamer than the Pope, climb the walls like King Kong
Buggin' out like Tori Spelling's eyes
Deader than the parents on a "Party of Five"
Luciano Pavoratti on a treadmill
Not going nowhere slim chance we will
Less hip than Bo Jackson bored like wood
Dick around like Frankie Goes To Hollywood
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RUN!
ITS ANOTHER TSUNAMI WAVE OF BETTLE'S RETARDED TEXT!
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Originally posted by SOB
I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
SOB
My God! This was beautifull.
AKDejaVu
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I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
ROFL! :D - would have been even better if I HAD any pets. ;)
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Beetle, I suspect most of us are tired of your assnine idotic rambling posts trying to come up with new ways to compare the UK and the USA.
Most of the time, you feel some need to start up another stupid bellybutton thread telling us how screwed up the USA is.
Get a life.
We really couldnt give a good whoopee what you think.
Dago
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Dago!
Beetle, I suspect most of us are tired of your assnine idotic rambling posts trying to come up with new ways to compare the UK and the USA.
Erm - didn't mention the UK, except at the end to compare the alcohol related road deaths. That was one of the points of writing it - seems like the alcohol problem is worse there, contrary to a number of Americans (Lazs & Toad to name two) who have made the opposite assertion. Just setting the record straight. I don't think "most of us" as you put it read my posts, never mind reply to them. I got what - 25 replies? Out of a AH subscribership of many thousands. Hmmmm.. ;) And if you REALLY didn't give a damn what I wrote, you wouldn't read it, never mind reply. Perhaps a little consistency is called for? ROFL. :D
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Geez Dago how do you really feel??????? :eek:
If he stopped with the assnine idotic rambling posts then my life would be empty. :)
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actually I doubt the problem is worse here. one things those statistics don't take into account in miles driven per year.
in this part of the US it is not uncommon for a guy to put 30-40k miles on his vehicle in a year. between me and the wife we probably put about 35-45k on the 3 vehicles.
looking at the size of your country I'd have a hard time believing that the average person puts mor than 5k on a car in a year.
makes the odds of getting away with drinking and driving alot easier if you don't put so many miles on in a year.
going by population is not very effective means of comparison. go by driving population and miles driven if you want a fairer comparison
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ROFL Funked! You know I'd never leave you. ;)
Captain – I can tell you’ve thought about this, but I strongly disagree with the conclusions you have drawn. Incidentally, average car mileage here is (according to the dealers who do the servicing) 10-12,000 miles pa. I think it’s about the same in the eastern US, and I remember wondering why it wasn’t higher. The British Isles occupy an area the size of Oregon, which is America’s 11th largest state as you know.
In a situation where you’re doing 30-45,000 miles a year, it follows that you’re doing some very long trips. And I know from my own experience that those epic voyages get started early and might finish late, with a break for lunch in uncharted territory. On such trips, there simply isn’t time for drinking. Besides which, folks who depend on their vehicles to the extent that you do would be far less likely to risk their licences by driving while intoxicated.
I also feel that by attempting to portray the scale of the problem alongside the total number of miles driven is misleading. For those stats to be borne out assumes that everyone drinks and drives, and the US figures are higher because US drivers in an inebriated state present more arrest opportunities than if they drove many fewer miles. I don’t think that’s how it is.
The people that get done for drink driving are not on long trips across country. It’s the people who wanted to get to the pub early enough to have a few rounds, and took the car. They took the risk because they were NOT going a long distance, and thought they could get away with it. The pubs here close at 11pm each night, 10:30pm on Sundays. I have heard the Police comment that the hour after closing time on a Friday (when drinkers have been paid) is the worst time for accidents and DUI arrests in the whole week.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hey, wait a minute - where is Toad? I hope his airline has not gone belly up and left him stranded thousands of miles from home. I don't think he works for UAL, as they fly to LHR and I know Toad doesn't.
Your concern is touching.
He is in Lincoln, Nebraska visiting his aged mother and father in the company of his brother.
Today, the brothers installed a big new HD in the father's computer and also went hunting on the Great Plains with a nice litte Irish Labrador. Bag was 3 fine rooster pheasant and 3 quail in just about 3 hours of walking. Most enjoyable.
Tomorrow they will roll out the Father's Fairchild PT-26 and go flying. It will also be most enjoyable.
Toad is reading and posting sparingly as his Father's computer is still on a 56K modem and that is distressingly slow for one used to cable. He will also be checking into putting in a DSL line here before he leaves.
Say "toodle-pip" to your nannies for me.
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Originally posted by Toad
Your concern is touching.
He is in Lincoln, Nebraska visiting his aged mother and father in the company of his brother.
Today, the brothers installed a big new HD in the father's computer and also went hunting on the Great Plains with a nice litte Irish Labrador. Bag was 3 fine rooster pheasant and 3 quail in just about 3 hours of walking. Most enjoyable.
Tomorrow they will roll out the Father's Fairchild PT-26 and go flying. It will also be most enjoyable.
Toad is reading and posting sparingly as his Father's computer is still on a 56K modem and that is distressingly slow for one used to cable. He will also be checking into putting in a DSL line here before he leaves.
Say "toodle-pip" to your nannies for me.
Dammit Toad, I publish two posts just to get this one off the map, and you come and bump it! :)
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God my head started throbbing not even a third through that Beetle......
please God, make beetle stop!
Tronsky
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Mr. Toad :) Let us know how that disk drive installation went. I hope you installed Norton AntiVirus ;) And hope you get good flying weather for your flight. I take it it's VFR in that thing? Why no chocolate lab this time?
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On such trips, there simply isn’t time for drinking. Besides which, folks who depend on their vehicles to the extent that you do would be far less likely to risk their licences by driving while intoxicated.
you'd think so, huh?
sadly it doesn't really play out that way. many of the people who drive those long miles (I do work with quite a few of them from time to time) find all this driving severly cuts into their drinking time. it is not at all uncommon to find guys getting off work and starting their 40-100 mile drive home with the 12-pack on the seat next to them. if they loose their liscense they just drive without it.
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Oh... I get it... this wasn't just another badly thought out wall-o-words trying to stave off some sort of 'America' envy... No... this was beetles "troll" to see how badly he could get beaten up again.
as for british cars being done right the first time... no wonder you are rolling on the floor with laughter. That's ok tho... ford fixed your jags so they're not quite so bad now.
you don't see any modified cars in limeyland because your nannies think it's not good for you... you might put an eye out.
lazs
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I bet you give a lot of speeches to your pets.
I'd love to hear the cats rebuttal.
Oh.. and Laz... remember Robert Lucas... the prince of darkness?? The guy that never drove at night or in the rain....
;)
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he doesn't have any pets because they wandered off during one of his speeches and never came back.
It's Joe lucas... the prince of darkness... the man who feels that waterproofing electrical systems takes the adventure out of motoring... lucky thing it never rains in limeyland.
lazs
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LOL Lazs! You brighten up the darkest of days. :):)
I didn't say "British cars". I said "the cars here". I have not owned a British car for at least 20 years. Jags were fixed by John Egan around 1986 when Jaguar was privatised. Ford's involvement was financial rather than to do with design of the cars. If they have any money left over maybe they they can buy United Airlines. My cars are German, and are exactly how I want them. :D No mods required. Well, the driver's doorlock on the beetle is a bit stiff, and needs attention. :p
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LOL beetle... you can't give away an 86 jag here. The ones built after Fords involvement hold their value quite well.
yeah... no need for variety... if the "home office" thought you needed variety they would force it onto you.
lazs
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it's spelled ninny here in the USofA :p
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Car and Driver wrote about the "alcohol-related" thing a few years ago. They looked into it, and the criteria for whether an accident is "alcohol-related" or not turned out to be ridiculous. The real number of alcohol-related accidents, where alcohol contributed to the cause of the accident, is far less than what the statistics say.
The statistical distortion is even worse for "speed-related" accidents. Those are overestimated by about a factor of 10 IIRC. Basically they cook the books to fit the political agenda. Speed law enforcement is very profitable for state and local governments.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Funniest thing about that post.
I had one of those "American automatic seat belt cars" ---- It was a Mazda.
:rolleyes:
...and I rode in one this week that was a Toyota.
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laz spewed:
...you don't see any modified cars in limeyland because your nannies think it's not good for you... you might put an eye out.
As if you've got even the smallest clue what you are talking about, sat over there in Ignoranceville, Yankland.
If they don't mod cars over here, I wonder what that fully modded Mitsubishi Evo VII my cousin's boyfriend brought up the other weekend was. Strangely enough, he's had it chipped, re-bored and it now has 355 horses under the bonnet (that's 'hood' to you, my linguistically challenged, ultra melon of a Yank). And the whole thing weighs less than the left arse cheek of your average 'metabolically challenged' compatriot.
If they don't mod cars over here, I wonder what that stripped down, modded up VW Golf Mk.1 my brother's mate drives is.
Nah, you know better. You visited England back in 19XX for 3 hours and 20 minutes and failed to find a decent fight and decided all British women were drunks, and... yada...yada...yada...
Not only are you like a broken record, you are like a broken Barbara Streisand record.
It seems to me Beetle has a deep love for your country, and he certainly doesn't hate it. Just ignore him. Squelch him if need be. But if you want to rebuke Beetle's wall-of-text trawlings, you really are going to have to try a little harder if you want to avoid looking like an ignorant tard. Beetle does a superb job of pulling you out of the woodwork every time - it's almost like he's doing it deliberately. Fancy that!
:)
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Well now...look who pulled who out of the woodwork:)
Listen...we understand that you guys wish you lived here in the USA...the land of big blocks, big busted blondes and the Big MAC. Still, it doesn't look good when ya get all pissy about playin second fiddle....just accept who you are and a happier life you'll have.
Remember, someone has to be first....it's not personal:)
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LOL Dowding! Laz thinks we're not allowed to drive cars with dents in them. If that were true, we could solve London's traffic problem overnight. :eek: Also, Dowding, Lazs can rarely post in a thread without mentioning my name.
Rude - I lived in the USA, but chose to come home. But don't take that personally - it was one of those "country in the boy" deals. I liked America actually - some parts more than others.
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"If they don't mod cars over here, I wonder what that fully modded Mitsubishi Evo VII my cousin's boyfriend brought up the other weekend was. "
A total piece of crap, same as every other Mitsubishi :D
J_A_B
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What the simple statistics dont take into consideration when comparing US alcohol related car crashes versus UK alcohol related incidents is the fact that in the UK, everyone has a pub within 30 seconds walk so they dont have to drive to a pub.
If you compared US alcohol related auto crashes with the number of UK citizens who have spent the night laying in a gutter swimming in a pool of his own vomit, you might find the US fairs quite well by comparison.
Oh gee, btw, just kidding, you really didnt take me serious did you? After all, I just love the British, despite the dental care issue. :D
dago
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It's ok Dago, the dental care jokes are about as funny and original to the average Brit, as the obesity jokes are to the average Yank.
But then again, only the latter has any real basis in fact. ;)
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Wow,
I thought Beetle's post was well written :)
When are you all going to get over this thing???
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I'm over it. He's never going to get over his nanny fixation. Of course this is "Bollocks" to him, but I do have the satisfaction of having coined the phrase "Nanny" in this context.
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After all, I just love the British, despite the dental care issue.
Smithers, release the hounds. :rolleyes:
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dowding... I put 1200 miles on british roads... Don't even try to tell me that you have a lot of modified cars out ther... i also belong to some newsgroups that are about modified cars and are international... It is a huge pain and expense to build and regester a modified car in limeyland. You act as if it is as simple as the U.S. where you can take any old car and have all the parts delivered to your door for a couple of grand and do your 50 dollar regestration by mail (with proof of insurance).
355 horsepower? wow... how frieghtening! aren't you afraid with all that power that you will reach escape velocity and fly right off the edge of your little island? The pickups my city supplies for me to do my job in are 270 hp and they are the slowest thing I drive and... they aren't as embarassing to be seen in as a .... mitsubissi.. How much do you think that ricer weighs btw?
Dents... uh... you have to have your car fixed by a certified shop if it is involved in an accident don't you? Our state says go ahead and just pull the front clip off another car or... drive it like it is if you wish.
VW beetle... no need to modify it? LOL... the power handling and braking are so good that they couldn't possibly be improved? sheesh... if possible.... you know less about cars than guns..
lazs
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Erm Lazs... who actually lives in the UK? Is it me or is it you. The reason I ask is because I'm starting to think you know more about the UK than any Brit. Your conceitful arrogance is astounding.
You did 1200 miles. Big shrecking deal. I do that in a month. You're no expert by any defintion of the word. A modded car can often look quite unimposing - so-called 'Q' cars - that's often the way over here, especially with the Jap models.
There is a *huge* market for modded cars. You can buy parts and have them shipped to your door - all you do is declare them when you apply for insurance. There is no special license to be applied for - hey, is the US federal government nannying you there? Watch out mate, I hear it's catching.
I've been to 'cruises' where people just spontaneously show up somewhere, by word of mouth, and act like lunatics with their modded (or not so modded) cars. Not my thing really, but they are quite popular - my brother often goes.
Clearly you know nothing about motors. 355 break is not the important factor. 355 break on a car that weighs so little as an Evo is more telling. It lets you go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. And that's without some monster of an engine which uses a large proportion of it's output just pulling itself. Medium capacity, turbo charged engines are the way to go.
BTW - it was a VW GOLF not a BEETLE. A Mk1. GTi, which is a fun car in its natural form to begin with.
Dents... uh... you have to have your car fixed by a certified shop if it is involved in an accident don't you? Our state says go ahead and just pull the front clip off another car or... drive it like it is if you wish.
Where do you get this laughable crap from? People only take their cars to dealer outlets (who have a franchise from a manufacturer) while its under warranty. After that, anyone who has half a brain take to a normal garage (or workshop) and gets the work done at a fraction of the cost. There's no legal requirement or 'nannying'. Wow!
Face it Laz, you know absolutely zip about the UK, despite your exhaustive, much vaunted visit. And please make your mind up - either the UK is a 'pissant little country' and not worth your time or you are an undoubtable expert on it and its customs. For someone who purports to hold the former view, you seem to spend a lot of time talking about it.
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I can build three cars that will do 0-60 in 5 seconds for what that mitsubissi cost. We don't have to declare anything. We can build a car up from a kit. We can take old cars and modify em and drive em. Your country makes it a rich mans sport..
How much does the evo weigh? you didn't say. Are they the ones with the stupid wing on the back? They weigh allmost 3000 lbs if they are.... about the same as a 67 camaro but without the character. My Healey weighs 2100 lbs and my el camino weighs 3700... both will do 0-60 in under 5 sec. You might even say that they handle pretty well. I can rfind em both in a parking lot without trying my key in 6 identical locks first.
oh btw... beetles car is a beetle... he also owns a golf.
Are you saying that a car involved in an accident can be fixed by the owner legally?
lazs
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It's ok Dago, the dental care jokes are about as funny and original to the average Brit, as the obesity jokes are to the average Yank.
I cannot argue that obesity is a growing problem in the US, and one not soon to be reversed. I think you will find over the next 20 years it will become a larger problem on a global scale among most developed countries.
Dont try and tell me that dental care issue has been not an issue anymore, though I would be happy to hear that it is an issue improving today. I have worked with and known too many British to believe otherwise. It may not seem funny, and it truely isn't, but do you think Americans are amused to jump in this forum to seem Beetles idioctic ramblings comparing, or disparaging diatribes about, our country?
Take him to task for his nonsense. Ask him just what is the point of his continuing threads that serve no purpose? They neither amuse, enlighten or educate.
Would you Dowding or would Beetle be happy if in the future I spent some time submitting threads telling what I though was wrong with your country, its people, government or products?
Would Beetle find this as interesting as his obsession?
No country, no government, no group of people would fall under the definition of "perfect". All he is doing is running the risk of causing hard feelings. I dont know if he thinks he is a witty author, relating amusing observations of his life, He isn't. He is a bore.
Like Beetle, I have lived in another country. One with a lot of problems. I choose to remember and reflect on the positive aspects of it, and my years there. I don't feel the need to go on the internet and blather on about the issues they have I didn't think up to my standards.
Maybe he should spend some time introspectively to understand where his issues really stem from?
Dago
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Erm Lazs... who actually lives in the UK? Is it me or is it you. The reason I ask is because I'm starting to think you know more about the UK than any Brit. Your conceitful arrogance is astounding.
Actually, this is a very good point- now if Beetle would understand the reverse is also true (that is, we live here and know better what is best for us) we wouldn't be having this(these) discussion(s).
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Dago - have I been disparaging of the US way of life at any point? Have I agreed with Beetle? Have I started any threads in Beetle's style?
I never have. A long time ago I questioned the US love of firearms, out of curiosity more than anything else. I might criticize US foreign policy, but that is a fair target because it affects me (directly or indirectly); since the UK's foreign policy is inextricably intertwined with that of the US, I must be anti-UK if I am anti-US.
Of course Americans are going to counter Beetle. But when Yanks counter Beetle by spouting bollocks, half-truths and damned lies about the UK you are damned right I'm going to respond irrespective of the thread title. Or who started it.
By sneering at the UK to get at Beetle, they are insulting all of the more patriotic of us Brits. That's right, patriotism is not a US monopoly. ;)
Frankly, I couldn't care less about how Americans live their lives. I'm sure it's a great country and has many positive things to offer. Just like any country.
As for dental care. Honestly, I never came across this 'bad teeth' thing until I started reading this board. I look at my friends, and I've got to say that they don't seem to have much of a problem. It seems such an alien thing.
Obesity is a growing problem here (pun intended).
I can't answer your questions about Beetle's motivations. I don't know him. I suspect it is badly screened admiration, to be honest.
Laz - if you are involved in an accident, you should inform the insurance company if a third party is involved. But there's no law against doing repair work on your car. Providing it's not un-roadworthy.
I don't know how much the Evo weighs. But it's seriously lightened from the standard. 3000 lbs sounds very heavy to me. I'll find out, and let you know.
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at least I don't regularly see American drivers with berets and driving gloves :eek:
ok.. maybe in SF but not here
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But there's no law against doing repair work on your car. Providing it's not un-roadworthy
but there is a law saying all accidents must be reported...
and one that says don't spit on sidewalks...
etc
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:) dmn fun thread:rolleyes: , a side note to the drinking and driving, we have quite a few Brits living in our area,and you always get the occassional Brit who after drinking at his favorite pub decides time to go home, now i think that in these cases the poor guy must really be hammered, he pulls onto the highway to head home, mind you split lanes. and he's driving the wrong way up the interstate. this happes more frequently than folks realize, even though "nanny" has posted a sign saying WRONG WAY:eek:
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Dowding-
I don't blame you for getting tired of the comments. Understand the bulk of them were attempts to get Beetle to see the nature of his "crusade". Your reaction to the stereotypes of Britain probably mirror mine to Beetle's view of America. This is why I have placed comments in some of my remarks to him that they were not focused on your entire country, merely Beetle.
Most rank-and-file Americans couldn't care less how folks in the UK live their daily lives, and certainly wouldn't attempt to tell them how to do it better.
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Dago - have I been disparaging of the US way of life at any point?
as the obesity jokes are to the average Yank.
But then again, only the latter has any real basis in fact.
You were saying?
I don't blame you for getting tired of the comments. Understand the bulk of them were attempts to get Beetle to see the nature of his "crusade".
Bingo! Kieran he hit the nail on the head. Maybe we just find Beetle to be an assnine bore, and want to give him a little back?
Don't like the dental jokes? I don't blame you. Don't want to see negative things put up about your country or your countrymen? Welcome to my shoes.
Want to hear some more? Want to hear the ones about how you could be speaking German today if not for the US? Probably not.
Shouldn't be said anyway.
I honestly dont care to get into this type of crap, but I am just too damn tired of an bellybutton like Beetle making so many stupid comments about my country.
I like England and the English. I think English women are gorgeous and the British have made historically so many contributions to the civilized world and society I dont know that they could all be counted up. My ancestory is half British. The English make great stereos, and much of modern music today is a result of the UK influence.
I just think Beetle is far from the best product ever produced there.
dago
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Lazs. You're doing what you do best - being a knobhead. Of course I know that my Beet1e could be "improved", as you put it. Of course you could put in a more powerful motor, doughnut tyres, lower suspension, gullwing doors - and many owners have carried out such aberrations. But that is not why I bought my Beet1e! I didn't want a performance car - I have my sauerkraut rocket for that. I wanted the Beet1e to be as original as possible - a monument to the car that sold in the biggest numbers and had a huge impact on world motoring history! I know the suspension is crap - no MacPherson struts or anything like that. I know the brakes are crap - drums all round with single leading shoe. I don't want it tarted up. At my Beet1e workshop the other day, the guys were working on a Beet1e that a customer had just brought in, and were removing some of those cosmetic "improvements". Those included the extremely naff T-handle gear lever, resembling that of an auto. The customer wanted it to be all original, and I would too. My two concessions have been to get one with a 12-volt electrical system, and multiport 1300 engine instead of the original single port 1200.
Next, you redemonstrate your inability to stick to the point. Dowding corrected your misapprehension that modded cars are not to be seen in England. He mentioned the 355hp power output of his cousin's car, and you just had to seize on that and turn it into one of those "my car's faster than yours" type of national supremacy chest beating discussions. The power output was not Dowding's point. His point was that we can and do have modded cars, though I have never owned one myself. And I am as baffled as Dowding is to know where you get the idea that car owners can't do their own repair work.
More American nannying!
Years ago, I moved into a four bedroomed house with a large back garden and a side passage. Neither the garden nor the passage was lit, so I decided to install some electric lights. Simple enough job. I needed two light fittings, a four-way junction box, a double switch with one switch for each light, a fusebox, about 12 metres of 2-core+earth cable, and a metre of 3-core+earth cable. Most of the work was drilling - holes to take the cables through, and fixing the various bits to the walls. I wired the whole installation and tested it using a circuit tester before I even came to connect it to the mains supply. The 3-core+earth was between the junction box and switch. I even used a tab of red insulation tape to denote where a wire was actually a switched live and not a neutral. The fusebox was for an inline 5A fuse because I was about to tap into the back of one of the kitchen outlets on a 30A ringmain, and lighting circuits have to be limited to 5A. Everything worked. No sparks, no blackouts - I had done everything properly.
Later on, I discovered that in America, Nanny has decreed that you're not allowed to tackle your own electrical work in your own home! You have to send for a (nanny approved) little man to do it for you. :rolleyes:
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I don't recall Mazda or Toyota, much less Honda as being American Automobiles. Hated driving on wrong side of road.
Krotki, United we stand
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Later on, I discovered that in America, Nanny has decreed that you're not allowed to tackle your own electrical work in your own home! You have to send for a (nanny approved) little man to do it for you.
Another completly false statement made by someone who seems to not have a clue.
You can make any repair or alteration you want to your own home. You can build the house from scratch if you would like, add and addition, or perform any wiring you want.
The requirements made by virtually all states is the work must be done to code, you need to have your work plans approved, and it must be inspected, sometimes during the process, and at the end to assure code compliance.
Codes are established to protect the safety of the inhabitants. Who does the work is irrelevant.
Never let the facts interfere with whatever you want to say Beetle.
dago
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The requirements made by virtually all states is the work must be done to code, you need to have your work plans approved, and it must be inspected, sometimes during the process, and at the end to assure code compliance.
Same difference. :rolleyes: BTW I was in Chicago when I read that about not being able to do your own electrics. Maybe it was a city law or something?
But Dago, for one who doesn't give a damn about what I say or what I think, you keep coming back for more! :D
One thing I do know for certain is that in some states (OR and I believe NJ) you can't pump your own gas into your own car. Nanny won't allow it. You have to get the nanny-approved custodian of the pumps to do it for you.
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
Nah, you know better. You visited England back in 19XX for 3 hours and 20 minutes and failed to find a decent fight and decided all British women were drunks, and... yada...yada...yada...
Not only are you like a broken record, you are like a broken Barbara Streisand record.
lol. "oh look henry they have hamburgers -take a picture!"
the thing about euros in general is that they'll spend 3 months salary suping up a ford escort or something.....yeah it's fast i suppose, but don't you still feel kinda gay in an escort? or a golf? why not just buy a car that's sweet to begin with?
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Same difference. BTW I was in Chicago when I read that about not being able to do your own electrics. Maybe it was a city law or something?
I grew up in the Chicago area, never heard that one. Again, I dont think have the facts right.
Pumping gas, I dont know of any state that requires it be done by someone else, but I won't say for certain since I am not sure.
I guess thats one big differance between us. I try not to state fact if I don't really know it, you state as fact any perception you think might exist even if you dont know.
But Dago, for one who doesn't give a damn about what I say or what I think, you keep coming back for more!
Two reasons:
1)I think the truth should be told to balance the things you have to say
2) You are too far away to receive the bxtch slapping you need. :D
dago
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maybe we can post about the UK's National Healthcare Sysytem, that would be great fun!
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diddly this toejam. I'm outta here. For good.
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You guys are taking this way too serious.
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Originally posted by funkedup
You guys are taking this way too serious.
Get off your soapbox.
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Dago!
Pumping gas, I dont know of any state that requires it be done by someone else, but I won't say for certain since I am not sure.
I do know for certain because I've been there - OR (& one of the states near NY - I think it was NJ). I like to tease AKDejaVu about the gas pumping issue. :) But as to that electrical business, I definitely did read that, but it's a while ago and I can't remember the exact source.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Get off your soapbox.
NO WAY!
LALALAALALALALALA (SINGING)
:D
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beetle.. are you saying that you can repair your own car if it is in an accident that causes structual damage?
your car... fine but... have it restoredif you like but don't say that it was built right in the first place because it wasn't. It was barely passable then and is hopless now.
I am living in a home that I built myself. The next person that buys it will know that it conformed to standard industry safety standards and that somone like beetle couldn't have possibly turned it into a 3 alarm fire waiting to happen by using the wrong romex wire. I know at least a dozen people who have built their own home. How many people do you know that have built their own home in limeyland?
I like the british fine. I rarely agree with them on what freedom is except in very broad terms tho.. I certainly do not share the average brits slavish trust and devotion to his government and I really dislike being regulated... I feel like the U.S. is getting more and more regulated but at least I have the option of finding states that have less. I like the variety available here and how affordable everything is compared to england... I don't want national health or the dole and I certainly do not want their dental care (has to do with the teeth). I don't want any brits voting here or even telling me why I need less freedom. Socialism as practiced in england is not for me... gun control as practiced in england is not for me. Gas prices in england are not for me nor are their taxes. I want shopping malls and cutthroat prices and a store that's ovedr 10 years old to be torn down to put in one that sells toejam cheaper. I want to build a 450 horsepower engine for 2 grand and put it in an old car.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Dago! I do know for certain because I've been there - OR (& one of the states near NY - I think it was NJ). I like to tease AKDejaVu about the gas pumping issue. :) But as to that electrical business, I definitely did read that, but it's a while ago and I can't remember the exact source.
I think he's right. I believe NJ does not allow self-service stations. Probably some kind of mob influence of the service station attendant union or something.
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Gas prices in england are not for me
LOL! With a hotrod that does 8mpg I'm not surprised. :p
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the gas issue is NEW JERSEY ,when getting your gas there double check the price they will screw you,
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Originally posted by beet1e
Dago! I do know for certain because I've been there - OR (& one of the states near NY - I think it was NJ). I like to tease AKDejaVu about the gas pumping issue. :) But as to that electrical business, I definitely did read that, but it's a while ago and I can't remember the exact source.
Sigh... I'll say the same thing again for the sake of Beetle and the other too-dense-to-have-a-clue individuals on this board.
Oregon's law regarding who pumps your gas has never, as far as I can remember, been argued based on safety. The day the law is done away with, over 40,000 people in Oregon lose their jobs and gasoline prices won't drop a penny.
Now... beetle... continue on with your assenine idiocy.
AKDejaVu
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AKDJ - i didn't say WHY it was a law, or who made it. I was told when I went to refuel that self service is not permitted in OR. So I was not wrong, and you were a bit of a toejam. You were the same way about that Audi80/100 4000/5000 business. I didn't get an apology that time, and I won't expect one now.
BTW I've seen various spellings in this thread, but the correct one is "asinine".
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The day the law is done away with, over 40,000 people in Oregon lose their jobs and gasoline prices won't drop a penny.
AKDejaVu
Why, are the prices regulated by the state?
If not, prices will definitely drop. Freshman economics.
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No funked. Economics says that you attempt to cut costs while maintaining revenue flow. If they can get x ammount for the gas, they will continue to charge for it. There is not a difference in gas prices on the other side of the river.
The jobs will go away... that is guaranteed. There is no guarantee that the prices will drop as a result. That is freshman economics funkedup.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
No funked. Economics says that you attempt to cut costs while maintaining revenue flow. If they can get x ammount for the gas, they will continue to charge for it. There is not a difference in gas prices on the other side of the river.
The jobs will go away... that is guaranteed. There is no guarantee that the prices will drop as a result. That is freshman economics funkedup.
AKDejaVu
Negative.
Didn't they teach you about "supply and demand" in Jr. College? :D
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Wait, edit that to say "Hamburger University" instead of "Junior College". Sorry for the weak initial insult. :)
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LOL! whatever funked.
If you can honestly say that people will not loose their jobs and that the gasoline companies will have any reason to charge less than they do 5 minutes away...
more power to you.
Most around here know differently.
BTW... still waiting for the price of cars to drop since they started moving assembly lines to Mexico. Its not like things are done to reduce expenses and increase profit. Nah... nobody would want to do that.
Supply and demand. LOL!
AKDejaVu
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If we're going to have an economic discussion and the first thing you do is declare supply & demand to be invalid, there is no point in continuing, as you appear to believe in economic laws which are, shall we say, "at odds" with prevailing theory and empirical evidence. So I guess we will agree to disagree.
Cheers bud. :)
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Right funked. What I'm laughing at is you seem to think "supply and demand" is the only thing that matters.
The supply and the demand are not changing in the slightest in this scenario funked. Just the delivery.
But... stick with that "supply and demand" thingy. It goes well with your economics 101 argument.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
diddly this toejam. I'm outta here. For good.
lol, what made him blow his fuse? Maybe the fuse was not the proper rating.
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The supply and the demand are not changing in the slightest in this scenario funked
*arrogant answer deleted*
The attendants add cost the the product. Eliminating the cost of the attendants will cause the supply curve to move to the right. Demand curve would change very little because (as we can see in 48 states where full-serve stations are all but extinct) people greatly prefer to pump their own gas rather than pay a premium. They really aren't willing to pay more for some guy to do it for them. The result (static demand curve and rightward supply curve shift) is equilibrium at a lower price and greater quantity.
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Post funked edit:
Funked, the supply curve is based on the cost of the oil. The expense of the delivery method is post procurement of the supply and basically just operating expenses. Given the oportunity to cut expenses without reducing prices, do you think someone would capitalize on that?
That said, it is simply a fact that tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs wherease you can only guess as to where the price of gas will go. And if history has anything to say on the subject... when it comes to the price of gas... down is not an option.
AKDejaVu
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Here's a primer on the topic:
http://www.bized.ac.uk/stafsup/options/notes/econ207.htm
I realize there are other factors involved, but supply and demand are the primary factors at work in the marketplace. Any other factors have to be pretty darn strong to overcome them. If you want to make an argument whereby some outside factors could overcome this, I'm all ears. There are certainly markets where such things happen.
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Funked...
I didn't say supply and demand aren't factors. I'm saying they aren't the variables that are being changed. Its a moot point.
The only thing is at stake is if the fuel companies were to cut thousands of jobs, would the pass on the saving or reap the benifits of increased profits. To date, they prefer the latter.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by beet1e
AKDJ - i didn't say WHY it was a law, or who made it. I was told when I went to refuel that self service is not permitted in OR. So I was not wrong, and you were a bit of a toejam.
Kinda like you were being a toejam when you started this thread beetle? Just as you were being a toejam when you said "One thing I do know for certain is that in some states (OR and I believe NJ) you can't pump your own gas into your own car. Nanny won't allow it. You have to get the nanny-approved custodian of the pumps to do it for you. " I do believe you said a "why" there big guy. But stick to blind denial... it suits you.You were the same way about that Audi80/100 4000/5000 business. I didn't get an apology that time, and I won't expect one now.
beetle... are you staga? Cause I just re-read that thread and didn't see you post once after I did and did not see where I posted anything in regards to what you said. This is totally out of left field.
AKDejaVu
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Funked, the supply curve is based on the cost of the oil.
I think transportaton and distribution and point of sale costs (fixed and variable costs of the gas station) are significant. There's too much variation between prices at different stations for this not to be true.
Given the oportunity to cut expenses without reducing prices, do you think someone would capitalize on that?
They can't capitalize on that because there is competition. Unless they are fixing prices (and a drive around my town shows that this is definitely not happening), then somebody will always take the opportunity to drop the price and sell more fuel. This principle is a primary reason that the supply curve is upward sloping. It's a universally accepted (among economists) and fundamental truth of the marketplace. If you want to argue that the supply curve is not upward sloping, then we have a special case, and I don't see an argument for that.
That said, it is simply a fact that tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs
Oh I agree about that. But I don't believe that people deserve to keep jobs which needlessly increase the price of a product, and exist only because of archaic laws.
Also, about gasoline prices (and prices in general), don't forget about inflation. If you adjust for inflation (which affects wages as well as prices), gasoline prices don't look so bad. And feature-for-feature, the inflation-adjusted (real) price of autos is pretty stable as well.
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DejaVu
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Any idea of the population of Oregon? If AK is right, and it would be 40,000 jobs, can you imagine the economic impact to the state? I suspect there is a very good reason to keep the law...
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Funked,
The price of gas in Oregon is no different than the price in Washington... both states with very similar demographics and populations (more in the Seattle area, but pretty well matched everywhere else). One has self service, the other does not.
There is no indication, given history or comparison, that fuel companies would drop their prices. Absolutely zero.
AKDejaVu
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Beet1e I enjoyed the initial post. Well written, gave me a chuckle.
Building your own car is alot of fun. Built a few over the years. The "last ever" one was for my youngest daughter.
But busting wrenchs 5 days a week makes the thought of banging wrenchs on the weekends not my idea of a day off.
So I drive an 87 dodge K-Car named "The Wallnetto" to work. I drive it in the slow lane listening to the radio. When I come home, I drive in the opposite direction in the slow lane listening to the same radio station.......
A car is just a car, I no longer work on cars..
But on weekends ?????
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/p017653acefe91da3b2a685d6f0666a5e/fdfdb90c.jpg)
I have a good shop that works on it for me :)
I just ride..
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The price of gas in Oregon is no different than the price in Washington... both states with very similar demographics and populations (more in the Seattle area, but pretty well matched everywhere else). One has self service, the other does not.
one small corection.
the price of self serve in washington is about equal to the price of full service in Oregon.
actually they use the ability to sell you self serve as an excuse to charge you $.30 or so more to pump your gas in washington.
so not only does the consumer not benifit from the savings by the oil companys. but those who prefer or require having someone pump it for them get charged extra.
the oil companys pocket the savings plus pick up even more when they pump it. raw deal for the consumer all around.
the only savings I've seen for self service is on cardlock stations where they need nobody there at all, and collect monthly billing.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Funked,
The price of gas in Oregon is no different than the price in Washington
Well you should have told me that earlier before I made an bellybutton of myself! :)
Obviously there is more to it than the stuff I was talking about.
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Yeah, you'd probably have to be here Funked. I also don't believe the price of gas would drop at all. I could see it possibly going down for a few months after the law was revoked, and then slowly creep right back up to the price it is in Washington.
Plus, it's pissy and rainy here for half the year, and having somebody pump your gas ain't that bad. Plus it becomes a real event when you get to fill up your own tank in Wash or Cali...or maybe that's just me :)
SOB
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Poopster! You were one of only about two yanks who interpreted my thread in the spirit in which it was intended! A chuckle is right. I would have a chuckle if someone wrote something like this about Limeyland. I take it you noticed there was nothing vitriolic in the original post at all. But oh! Look at some of the people who got bent out of shape! ;)
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Once again, someone seems to think that because people didn't think a post was as funny as he did when he made it... that they just didn't get it.
Originally posted by Kieran
His point, K98k, is a weak attempt to rebut Toad's "Knife Danger" thread. The irony is Toad is likely against everything Beetle posted, and wouldn't defend any of it as Beetle suggested. In addition, most of the items listed were enacted by industry as a result of lawsuits.
Here's a bit of advice on your next troll...
Don't spend so much time fighting the other fish over the bait that you yourself laid out.
AKDejaVu
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AKDJ - when you got willied the first time, I thought you must be suffering from PMS. But your bad mood seems to have gone on for too long for it to be that.
Lighten up! Don't take these boards so seriously! Go and play with one of your guns. If you can't do any of those, then just piss off and go and play with Creamo.
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i find it quite humorous that a funny thread to start with turns into a political conversation, then into a car conversation then gas prices lmfao:D , i'll be nice and start a thread on gas prices for yall i bet it turns into how much cheese cost in china:rolleyes: