Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GPreddy on December 12, 2002, 12:16:20 AM
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This used to be a rare event but its now on the rise. This has happened to me seven times in the last week. Im chasing a guy and clearly have his six when someone takesoff and flies directly at the con for an ho kill. In this shot I had to stop firing because I would have killed myself and I have. The bishop coming at me and the con is in a 190 and theres no way even a p38 can match that for ho. I wonder if he gets all his kills this way.
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Next time don't be so slow in shooting something down. Just because someone beat you to a kill isn't kill stealing. It would have been a stolen kill if the enemy plane was already going down and the friendly plane pinged it in the hopes of getting credit for said kill.
ack-ack
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The most important thing in the MA, beyond ACM, gunnery, even SA, is the quick-kill. Getting the kill as quickly as possible is most important, even if it puts you into a situation where you'll die a few seconds later. It's why HOing is such a great option.
For those of us who are content to win our fights, rather than just happen to end up with a gunshot, it becomes annoying. It's just the way the arena works. Deal with it.
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Ruuuuuuudeeee..... :D
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The guy is being HOd by a diving Bf 109 as he takes off in a Fw 190.
Tactically it's not a bad move - a snap shot with 4 x MG 151/20 + 2 x MG 131 at 800-1000 followed by a violent evasive - vs. a liquid cooled opponent's face who's probably packing 1 high velocity cannon and 2 MG 131s or 1 low velocity cannon and 2 MG 131s.
In my book the crazy guy is the Bf 109. Who in their right mind goes face to face with 4 cannons at any range when your engine is liquid cooled?
You are 500+ from the target. If that Bf 109 performs a super high G turn to drop back on that Fw 190 there's no gurantee you are going to kill him before he gets a shot at the Fw 190. If you go for the vertical move and dive back on the Bf 109 you're allowing him separation and more time on the Fw 190 before you are back into guns range. If you yank into a high G turn to follow directly you're both going to be at the edge of blackout.
Kill stealing sucks, but this isn't kill stealing in my book. Kill stealing for me is when I have killed (as in an entire wing gone, entire tail gone, engine destroyed so he's a glider and therefore an auto kill waiting to be finished off by me - the person who shot his engine out) an aircraft and before it hits the ground or before the pilot bails someone else who knows that the aircraft is dead for certain jumps in to shoot it up.
Mike/wulfie
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Look again. right below the 109 is his tail which I knocked off. The 190 steals a dead bird.
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kill stealers .... ye reap what ye sow. kinda funny you squeaking about that voss. but...........
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Originally posted by GPreddy
Look again. right below the 109 is his tail which I knocked off. The 190 steals a dead bird.
Are u sure 190 knows that 109 is allready killed? Sometimes you cant see if there is damage in enemyplane. All killsteals are not steals I think.
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Well assuming the Fw 190 saw that tail flying off, I stand corrected. I didn't see the tail coming off.
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by mipoikel
Are u sure 190 knows that 109 is allready killed? Sometimes you cant see if there is damage in enemyplane. All killsteals are not steals I think.
Yeah you can --- well unless your graphics are REALLY REALY Bad.
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:o ...Rude?
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C'mon GP.....all of these years in this biz, I wouldn't expect you to ask for a tissue.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Next time don't be so slow in shooting something down. Just because someone beat you to a kill isn't kill stealing. It would have been a stolen kill if the enemy plane was already going down and the friendly plane pinged it in the hopes of getting credit for said kill.
ack-ack
Howdy Ack-Ack. :) No.... I really dont agree w/this. I've been in tight 1 on 1's where I'm in a plane say a KI vrs a spit. It take me some time to get into a 6 firing postion. I am about to close the deal and....in swoops some indiv in a La7/Niki/51 whatever. THIS might not BE kill stealing...but it SURE IS DAMN ANNOYING.
If I see 2 guys swirling on the deck..I'll ask if our side needs help. At worst I'll swoop in and distract.
Living off somebody elses work is true dweebry.
Now..if your in a furball w/15 guys swirling around you... I can see it happening. Its still damn annoying though.
xBAT
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Originally posted by Rude
C'mon GP.....all of these years in this biz, I wouldn't expect you to ask for a tissue.
ROFL!
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I can't see where anyone, if they were the 190 pilot, could see the tail falling off the 109 at that angle. He had just taken off, and given the range to the field, he saw the icon, knew he was low and slow, did the only thing he could do, he turned HO and defended himself. I have done the same thing many times, especially at a vulched field. You take off and if a con is nearby and you don't have time to turn and gain alt, you go for it.
IMHO:D
AKSnake
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I had several kills stolen from me in the MA lately more than ushual, i went balastic on local voice several times, I was a real potty mouth man, realy ticked me off, things like one winged burning planes tumbling to the ground and some aswipe comes in and shoots till he explodes kinda stuff, man i was hot.
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Next time don't be so slow in shooting something down. Just because someone beat you to a kill isn't kill stealing.
this sounds like totally BS
btw it's really worse when someone going after ur target after u brought him by fight down to the deck.
Than some dweeb comes from higher and steals ur kill, and u die at that moment coz some nme fighter comes on ur 6. The dweeb should have gone after the new target but because of his lack of skill he chosen for the easy one.
When some other friendly fighter coz after ur target u expect not trouble on ur 6, how wrong could i think.
When i see some going after one i would not disturb the fight unless he is in trouble.
My lack off gunnery skill does not give u the right to dweeb around and steal my kills.
Get ur own fight and kills!! :mad:
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Although the 190 clearly outguns the 109, the 190 would easily see GP on the 109's 6, so why would he bother with the HO in the first place? Why risk crippling your bird in the HO just to get one kill? This may not be killstealing in the literal sense but it is both a selfish and foolish act. With the p38 bang on the 109's 6, there is no need to HO. Nose under, extend a smidge, and explore your options. That 109 is either too fast to reverse quickly, or slow enough that the p38 can kill him if he(109) tries to reverse on the 190 after it(190) noses under to avoid the HO. I understand the 109's tail was shot off but the 190 made a bad decision, even under the assumption that the 109 was in one piece.
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Put yourself in the 190's shoes.....you've taken off, and spot a 109 diving in on you. Your logical move it to head into your assailant. Regardless whether he saw the tail come off or not, he was being shot at, and I can tell you if it were me I would be returning fire. From my experiences there have been times I was RTB'ing with damage and spotted a group of 3 or 4 guys chasing down one lone target. That target spots me smoking and turns towards me. Now what are you to do? Let the guy come in and finish you off or turn into him?
In my case I turn into the attacker and immediately get a bunch of six calls. When I kill the guy I get called a kill stealer, and for what? For trying to not to become another notch on some guys belt, because 3 or 4 other guys weren't able to kill the guy? I don't think so. On the other hand you never hear me complain when I am dead on someone's six and someone else comes diving in and kills the guy before I do.
A dead opponent is just that, one less guy to worry about and pushing the reset back a bit further. Personally I don't play for scores, but rather to enjoy myself. Who gets the kill doesn't matter, because it's only a game. I guess if I were out to win the money HTC put up for the best fliers I might be upset, but then again I think that cash prize thing is what is slowly tearing this community apart too. There has been more complaints since the inception of the cash prize then I have ever seen prior to it. Maybe HTC should rethink that idea before more harm is done. Well there you have it so let the flaming begin. But I must warn you I really don't care personally what you think about this reply as it is my opinion and not necessarily your own, or that of HTC :).
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Originally posted by Steve
Why risk crippling your bird in the HO just to get one kill? This may not be killstealing in the literal sense but it is both a selfish and foolish act.
You just described the general attitude of MA players, and answered your own question.
They want kills. They don't care about acm, or thier team, or anyone in the area. They just want to get a kill before they get shot down, and doing so is a good sortie.
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Look at the 190.. he hasn't just rotated...so he has a bit of alt, enough to nose under. I agree that that you head into the enemy, but I can't fathom any reason in these circumstances to go for the HO. As the 190, you have good odds of "winning" the HO, but the fast 109 with guns in the nose is just as likely to make a mess of your plane...almost certainly damage if not destroy. By accepting the HO, the 190 has made at least his second bad choice of this flight....I mean why up a 190 with a bad guy this close to the base in the first place?
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strange idea that a 190 outguns 109 invariably.
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I'm very, very new to the game, so please forgive me if my question has already been asked (I must say that the 5 character search keyword minimum makes it difficult to check old discussions.)
My question -- shouldn't the removal of an entire wing or tail assembly be enough to award the kill now, instead of waiting for the inevitable crash of the enemy aircraft?
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Originally posted by Falstaff
[B....My question -- shouldn't the removal of an entire wing or tail assembly be enough to award the kill now, instead of waiting for the inevitable crash of the enemy aircraft? [/B]
It usually is, but as long as the pilot is still in the plane it is possible to hit and kill him. When this happens the plane explodes and the person who killed the pilot gets kill.
F.
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I was not very clear in my question, I'm afraid. I meant that the system should award the kill as soon as the wing or tail comes off. Then there would be no kill to steal -- it's already been awarded.
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it gives who made the most damage the kill, not like killing a structure or dropping the last goon into the map room where the last damage gets the -destroyed message.
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Now I get it -- thanks! In my (increasingly complex and probably not worth it) scheme, the kill determination time would be when the wing came or tail came off. At that point, the damage would be examined to see who got the kill and... oh, never mind.
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I dont mind if another aircraft engages, but I do get angry when I knock of peices of a con's wing - clearly sending him to his watery grave - and other countrymen will spray the dead airplane with everything they've got to get the kill.
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Originally posted by Rude
C'mon GP.....all of these years in this biz, I wouldn't expect you to ask for a tissue.
Read the original post again and you will see Im pointing out a trend in the ma. I can tell you that after all these years as you put it I try not to ho after takeoff. I think Steve said it best. That was damn stupid and the 190 deserved the killshooter he got. Yes he sprayed so much that even though I had pulled off he hit me and died. About thirty minutes after I posted that the same guy repeated the act and died again. Some people never learn.
Just before we reset akdessert I had knocked the tail and both wings off of an a20. I watched a friendly typhoon dive after the fuselage and fire all the way down until he compressed and hit the water. I dont think he hit the enemy at all. Is it the contest or are the dweebs more frequent?
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i would love to know who was in the 190? Is it a new guy, a vet........was it me?
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Ya, I've seen an increase in kill stealing also, even from some of the seasoned players. That makes the game a little less fun when you see a vet steal a kill from you or off of someone else.
I've also seen an increase in the number of guys disconnecting after their plane or vehicle has been shot to pieces. Rather than bail the bad guy just discos, preventing me from getting the kill and himself from getting a recorded death.
But hey, on the bright side it also prevents someone else from stealing my kill!!! ;)
The best part is, those incidents are people who have zero chance of qualifying for the contest anyway... So why bother?:rolleyes: Assuming the reason for the disco was to keep a better ranking for the contest....
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That is poppycock, a disco will still get you your kill and count as a disco/death for your opponent.
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Your pick was taken when the friendly and the con were D600 from each other. When the friendly started shooting he may have been 1.0+ from the con, and you were prolly beyond D600 behind the con, not exactly in a GREAT position for a shot, and pieces had not yet come off the con.
The slow friendly may not have been able to do much that wouldn't have exposed himself to a shot by the enemy. In the HO, at least he got to shoot back.
I think the con was fair game to the friendly.
No way would I call this a steal attempt.
This was two friendlies, in different positions, shooting at the same con. The biggest difference is that only one of them had a big hissy-fit over the situation and decided to make a federal case out of it by posting it on the BB.
What surprises me is that Voss didn't bother to choose a situation/pic that was a clear, cut-n-dry kill steal. They happen all the time, right?
So why try to stretch this situation into something its not?
Voss, you've got to remember to take your Mydol before you fly and post, it will prevent such nonsense.
eskimo
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bah
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I got accused of kill stealing tonite.... by the person I shot down... and I was the only person on his tail...
Thing is, I was just pumping him full of lead because I didn't want the kill to get stolen from me!
-SW
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Originally posted by GPreddy
Look again. right below the 109 is his tail which I knocked off. The 190 steals a dead bird.
I didn't see it the first or second time I looked at that picture, so I'm wondering if that 190 saw it. The 109 looks straight and level to me.
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Originally posted by GPreddy
Read the original post again and you will see Im pointing out a trend in the ma. I can tell you that after all these years as you put it I try not to ho after takeoff. I think Steve said it best. That was damn stupid and the 190 deserved the killshooter he got. Yes he sprayed so much that even though I had pulled off he hit me and died. About thirty minutes after I posted that the same guy repeated the act and died again. Some people never learn.
Just before we reset akdessert I had knocked the tail and both wings off of an a20. I watched a friendly typhoon dive after the fuselage and fire all the way down until he compressed and hit the water. I dont think he hit the enemy at all. Is it the contest or are the dweebs more frequent?
Your memory must be selective....this behavior, along with other types is as old as dirt...just as the whinin about it is.
It is the nature of the MMPOG community....the only times that were somewhat different in nature and attitude were the early days of AWDOS...smaller community, sense of honor and fairplay, etc. The larger the community has grown, the worse the behavior. Even back then, PNG was hotly discussed among players.
It's not worth complaining about it as that will change nothing.
That's my only point.
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lol
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lmao. No, I'm laughing at Rudes post talking about honor and fairplay, which has always been absent online. And I believe he's whining, er uh complaining in an undignified way. :)
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Not whinin at all....you started this song and dance.
What I stated is simply the truth....if you don't want to accept it, then that's your choice.