Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on May 01, 2001, 02:54:00 PM
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8 points dweebs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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i hate you.
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Heh, looks like I'll never be out of them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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A small step for HTC, a great leap for human kind.
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ahh i was hoping to be first to post: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Only 8 points... hmm, that just takes the planes out of the newest pilots' hands. I thought the really good vets racked up like 10 perkies a sortie! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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wait, this ISNT a troll?? Sweeeeeeeeeeet! whats the niki at?
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Wow....what a world saving breakthrough. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
I can earn that in 1 and a half sorties in a 109F4....without RTB'ing.
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One down, 6 more to go. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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And the LW dweebs screem with glee. Right up until the Dora is perked.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
And the LW dweebs screem with glee. Right up until the Dora is perked.
AKDejaVu
as soon as it ammounts for 25000 kills...I'll screem with glee too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Least now ill know that most f4uc are not new flyers.
deadly!
LaVa
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total kills had nothing to do with it. Most everyone posting in this thread really has no problem dispatching F4u-1Cs, they are just pissed that people are flying them... as if it matters what the enemy is flying.
Time to feel superior to something else.
AKDejaVu
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AKdeja we wont moan if dora perked but only to keep the allied 'revenge' mindset happy
It doesnt flood the arena quite like the f4c did but if it means less chogs too id agree to perk dora
This is not a LW vs USAAF fans war AK. its a request to try and promote aircraft variety.
The only objection/reason given by those that dont want it perked .....as far as ive heard is 'LWWhiners get their own way now im gonna whine about the LWs best plane' etc etc BS BS
its all so childish and to be honest i hear more whines about anti-whining than anything else......SEE now you've got me talking like a school kid.... 'anti-whines' hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
lets see if it works eh? TEST IT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
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Thanks
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Yay! Now we'll have people flying the chog properly instead of newbies using it as an instant HO, respawn, HO, respawn, HO respawn tool!
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This is long overdue, but now Chog fans can rightfully gripe that their ride is perked when other good planes are not. IMHO all fighters which maintain a K/D greater than 1:1 should cost perk points to fly. This would still leave most planes unperked, and any early war planes we get in the future would be unperked too.
It makes for better play balance, 8 perk points is no big deal. What are you saving those perk points for anyway?
ra
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its a request to try and promote aircraft variety.
I'm always amazed at people that believe the best way to promote diversity is through limitation.
Those that want to fly the best plane, will just move to the next best plane... and that's "all you will see"... only now there is one less other plane to fly.
AKDejaVu
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I'm going on a campaign to keep my P-47 unperked!!!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/ammo_sig1.JPG) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Let us all fly DR1. When they get tired of shooting us down, they will whine about no competitive AC.
blutic
I pay my money, I want my plane!
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You can still fly a Corsair.
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WOW!!! AH Whiners win!!!!!
Now the BBS will have more whines then ever!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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The f4u-C was not perked when I opened my account. I like the cannon, I like the speed in a dive, I like the color. Now it is taken away.
I like planes. Give everyone all the Axis or allied planes they want. Don't take the AC that are already here. In the MA it don't mean squat anyway.
blutic
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If you can't afford to pay 8 points for C-Hog then you shouldn't be here at all.
Now keep on whining and DjV you should read your post about "Direction" again.
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the real corsair
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
anRky
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Just to whine on a slightly different tangent, why is the Tempest 9 times as expensive as the CHOG?
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Good question. And same goes for the Arado. Why is the Arado sooo expensive when it has no defences? Now, a B-29, yes, perk it to hell. But the Arado is not a very easy bomber to fly.
Maybe if all the planes were under 30 perkies to fly they would get the proper use?
V.
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Wait a second.
Anyone that cant accumulate 8 points dont belong here. Cancel their accounts, go back to playing online bingo? I thought anyone paying 30 buck a month belonged here, and their opinion was welcomed.
blutic
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Originally posted by hazed-:
...its a request to try and promote aircraft variety.
Ya know the scariest part about this statement is that some of you actually believe it.
I read a post this morning in the Training forum by a new guy who was asking some questions about different planes and stuff. The thing that stuck out about his questions were he wanted to know which was the best plane he could use to help him survive in the Main Arena. He said that while he liked certain aircraft, they werent the most viable option if he wanted to stay alive and do well in the MA. I dont blame him one bit. Its all well and good to say "I fly a plane that is not used much and I am superior because of it" if you want to delude yourself in that way, but the truth is most of the new guys that are showing up here just want to have fun and be able to shoot something down while they are learning.
I would be willing to wager that the majority of newbies who fly the F4U-1C when they first get here dont continue to fly it forever. Eventually most of them will migrate to something that suits their style a little better once they know how to control the planes better.
While I can appreciate Pyro perking the F4U-1C, I dont think it solves anything. According to the stats that everyone keeps touting on what makes a plane perkable, the N1K2-J is next.
It will be the next "newbie" plane....at least until the whining reaches an unacceptable decibel level, forcing HTC to perk it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Only 7 perkies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Now let the whines begin about the low Chog cost (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
HTC, it should only cost 1 perky just to get under the skin of the whiners (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<whine mode on>Ban the N1k2!!!! Now, let's put this big spoon in the pot and stir. Pilots in the top 300 are banned from flying fighters. They can only fly B-17 and Lancaster this tour. This is only fair as others have been banned from flying the Chog!!! But, if ya wanta fly a fighter it costs 800 perkies. Ya know it's the pilot and not the plane,right? 800 perkies should be easy to earn while flyn that fighter very carefully, right???? <whine mode off>
<Puts big spoon on shoulder and exits stage right>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 05-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 05-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Just a reminder, ALL planes are available 24/7 in the dueling arena. If theres noone in there try to scrounge up some bodies in the MA. Heck, just yell "FREE NAKED CHOG MUDWRESTLING IN THE DA, COME ON IN!!!" on channel 1 and im sure some will follow. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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If you can't afford to pay 8 points for C-Hog then you shouldn't be here at all.
Now keep on whining and DjV you should read your post about "Direction" again.
Right staga.. guess you missed the point of it entirely.
So many concerned with what others are doing, flying and saying.
I'm concerned that too many are trying to dictate what others are doing, flying or saying.
Get a clue.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
total kills had nothing to do with it. Most everyone posting in this thread really has no problem dispatching F4u-1Cs, they are just pissed that people are flying them... as if it matters what the enemy is flying.
Time to feel superior to something else.
AKDejaVu
This is more or less on target. Even my lowly, sorry self managed to start killing those Chogs. At first they were chewing me up, then I tried to avoid the HO and wow, I started winning against them more! amazing... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyways, my whole reason to perk the CHog was that it's a "special" plane. They barely saw any service in WWII, there were probably more sorties in ME262's than in the CHog (warning, this is pure speculation! I could be wrong on that.) Special planes should be perk rides, IMO. I bet Pappy Boyington didn't whine about having to fly a Hog with 6 .50 calibres instead of one with 4 hispanos!!! The Dhog is a good ride if you don't have the perkies for the Chog. Besides, it's got the nice yellow ring around the cowling, much more colorful than the Chog! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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GENTLEMEN,
THE F4U-1C WAS NOT PERKED WHEN I OPENED MY ACCOUNT. IDONT FLY IT THAT MUCH< BUT I LIKE HAVING THE OPTION. PLEASE, DON't TAKE AWAY AIRCRAFT!
Never mind. Someone told me LW AC were only able to be shot down in the MA by C_HOGS. MY mistake.
blutic
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Hmm I'm going to miss shooting at them, I'm curious when there going to perk my spit or B26, I'm more afraid of 109's then F4U's or nik's and in a turn fight I worry about another spit before all the others, Seems to Me a 8pt. perk is only going to hurt the newbie and if your going to HO a Chog you probably deserve to be blown in half.
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DG 483rd Tactical Fighter/Bomber wing
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I can't comprehend how people could possibly whine about this.
1) You've got a perfectly good almost identical Corsair you can fly for free. If that Corsair is totally unsuitable, you might as well paint "I can't kill without cannons" on your forehead.
2) If the CHog was added new to the game 1.07 at its current point cost and had never been in the game at all, not a person in the world would be particularly upset.
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Originally posted by sling322:
According to the stats that everyone keeps touting on what makes a plane perkable, the N1K2-J is next.
It will be the next "newbie" plane....at least until the whining reaches an unacceptable decibel level, forcing HTC to perk it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Wrong. N1K2 doesn't even remotely come close to the CHog in usage, or kill/death ratio. And it can't be used from CVs.
N1K2 will never reach the usage level the CHog did last tour. You can take that to the bank.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I'm always amazed at people that believe the best way to promote diversity is through limitation.
AKDejaVu
I don't see anything remotely illogical about it.
Perking the CHog increases the diversity of the main arena. What part of that is so hard to understand?
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wow 8 whole points, whats that to someone with over 500 points? Heck some are claiming upwards 1500 points!
point CAP! point CAP! point CAP!
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really? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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"Anyone that cant accumulate 8 points dont belong here. Cancel their accounts, go back to playing online bingo?"
And whats the difference with how it was when chog was unperked? *spray* *spray* *spray* BINGO!
"I thought anyone paying 30 buck a month belonged here, and their opinion was welcomed"
They are. Look at all the responses. Feel the love (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Torgo is right though. If you CANT get kills when you have an IDENTICAL craft without single ping kill cannons then you are WASTING 20 bucks here. Fighter ACE is 10 a month and MCFS2 is FREE. So the question is.. can you ACM or not?
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Whaaaaaaaaa
Whaaaaaaaaa
Whaaaaaaaaa........Used to when my kids did this for no reason...I sent em to there room. Big ole babies....hehehehehehe
Jackal
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(http://www.applink.net/thunder/spoof/smiley10.gif)
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/spoof/whiner.jpg)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I'm always amazed at people that believe the best way to promote diversity is through limitation.
Those that want to fly the best plane, will just move to the next best plane... and that's "all you will see"... only now there is one less other plane to fly.
AKDejaVu
i dont claim this is definately the way forward AKdeja but i want to test ideas to see if it improves and if it doesnt change back .that is what i meant.Why is everything the END of the world? 1 tour then make up your mind.
7 perks is minor and means you cant just up from a base firing laser cannons without eventually running out of perk points but if you fly one well it pays for itself in a few sorties especially if used for jabo.
it may be that it needs to be even lower at 3 perks or 2 then it would not penalise an average player as theoretically, you can get 2-3 perks each sortie forever but a newbie or poor flyer who uses it to ho and spray with will soon find it unavailable to them.It will need fine tuning by HTC and i dont envy them the task but i think their idea is very workable and i <S> them for trying to answer customers concerns.
lets just give it a try AKDejavu
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
btw if you think you are being flooded with doras( one i fly as example) and request it perked and numbers back it up then i'll pay perks for it.
I'll even agree to perk it even if the numbers show it unjustified just to prove to you i think this WILL mean a more diverse target enviroment for us.I think perk system should be dynamic and set by the stats themselves then who could argue?.agreeing on the level that sets the perk?.....thats a whole other story (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
total kills had nothing to do with it. Most everyone posting in this thread really has no problem dispatching F4u-1Cs, they are just pissed that people are flying them... as if it matters what the enemy is flying.
Time to feel superior to something else.
AKDejaVu
http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/Invince.wav (http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/Invince.wav)
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(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Hazed, we have no choice but to give it a try.
I don't like that the CHOG whines went to such an extreme.
I don't like that the post perk celebration is so extreme.
Its insulting to quite a few people that actually flew the plane. Unfortunately, very few people who post here seem to realize that.
AKDejaVu
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AKDejaVu you cant be anymore offended than i am when anything i say concerning an LW aircraft is called a 'luftwobble whine' etc .
You have to ignore the crap but i admit its been getting to me lately also.
Let them(ones who insulted your F4c (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) be smug.What we all know is HTC is not swayed by whines.I'd bet they think its right to try to balance/vary available planes to mold the arena to their desired atmosphere and they see the numbers like us.
<S> AKDejaVu
p.s. come on deja, the guys you fly F4ucs with cant afford this? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) i have 800 or so fighter perks which is by no means the highest and im sure some AKs have double that.
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
reading your post again deja im wondering if you mean pilots who flew them being offended or something? I hardly think a WW2 vet would give a sh*t what goes on in a game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). whaddaya takeus fa?
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Hazed, I haven't flown the F4u-1C for 6 months. I've been prepping for the introduction of the P-40 and have been trying to work my way down the foodchain.
Its not insulting to me. It is, none the less, insulting.
Is it the same as calling someone a LW dweeb? Maybe, but then I'm not trying to get all LW birds removed from the game to satisfy my own personal prefferences.
AKDejaVu
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Hm, I'm not so sure what there is to be upset about.
It's an incredibly cheap perk plane. There is an in fm terms equal F4U just waiting.
The perk system is suppposed to be a fluid and dynamic thing, it's not set in stone.
There is little whines when a plane like the TA-152 and Tempests are (relatively) expensive perk planes, because we're used to it. Now, HTC have seen the stats and decided that the chog usage has beeen very heavy. So they use the perk point system (which many of the choggers were cheerleading) to use an inbuilt mechanism to give more diversity. And the same chog crowd goes wild.
It really amazes me, this inconsistency, this hypocricy.
Djv, I believe the perk point system can be used to add diversity. Indeed, that's one of the reasons it was introduced; we got the Ta and Tempest because of it. While one can argue for a long time about regulating player behaviour, this is only done in a very minor way. It's not like this forces you to abandond your former playing style.
Also, with less chogs, I've seen more bombers. When people cannot cv dweeb a field down, they have to (gasp) use more realistic tactics. And even take buffs!
Now, perk the d9, g10, la7, p51, n1k and that fast arse yak and we're on the way to something good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Two whole Japanese planes, and they want one of them perked. Lets see.. ya, that's half the plane set.
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Anyone else notice a crapload of tiffies flying around tonight?
Shamus
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i agree with easymo
at the current juncture, you coudlnt perk the n1k because of lack of other jap planes
after the ki84 and mabye ki100 are in the game then you could look at it
the f4u-1c is the perfect perk since f4u lovers can just ride the f4u-1d for free
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Well I liked the Chog for one reason and that was for close air support for ground forces. I haven't looked at the stats and I am sure I am wrong, but did anyone think to see that it was used by everyone in that role as well. I mean I try not to HO someone but watermelon happens. Normally I try to avoid a fight if I am in a chog cause my main goal is to hit a VH somewhere.
I ain't whining...but I don't like the idea of a perk system. Thats my opinion, which my thirty dollars a month allows me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I think that if you pay that kind of money you should get everything the game offers. But thats me and not many others. If the planes are perked there perked, nothing I can do about that. I'll play till I get tired of it and leave and that is really the only thing any of us can do.
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I never had too much problems with chogs, its the guns that make it really dangerous.
My bet is the tiff will become the dweeb mobile now, its the only other non-perk with 4 turbo-lasers.
Besides, i've been killing with 6 50s for some 15 tours without a problem, so hog drivers arent really that disadvantaged IMO.
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Just for edification and amusement:
Stats after 1st day of Tour 16:
The N1K2 has 414 kills and has been killed 390 times.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 337 kills and has been killed 336 times.
The Ostwind has 271 kills and has been killed 189 times.
The F4U-1C has 248 kills and has been killed 142 times.
The La-7 has 234 kills and has been killed 215 times.
The Typhoon IB has 223 kills and has been killed 167 times.
The P-51D has 197 kills and has been killed 206 times.
The Bf 109G-10 has 167 kills and has been killed 142 times.
The F4U-1D has 149 kills and has been killed 174 times.
The Fw 190D-9 has 142 kills and has been killed 99 times.
It seems that after 1 day of Tour 16 no unit has twice as many kills as the unit below it. The ratio between the Spitfire MkIX and the N1K2 seems to be favoring the N1K2 a bit more than in Tour 15. The Typhoon has a noticeably better ratio of use than it had in Tour 15, not that it breaches the top 5. Both the N1K2 and Typhoon have FM issues that I would love to see HTC fix.
Now that we have the initial returns our system predicts Al Gore as the winner....no, wait, we take that back ITS George Bush...oops, our apologies, it seems to favor Al Gore and he will be the ne...No wait, our most abject apologies, George Bush is the.... OH HECK, WE DON"T KNOW WHAT THE <BLEEP> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(I hope everyone takes that as the non-partisan, self depreciating joke that it was intended as)
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by blutic:
The f4u-C was not perked when I opened my account. I like the cannon, I like the speed in a dive, I like the color. Now it is taken away.
You know, in the hangar?...the plane in the list?...yes...the one IMMEDIATLY below the Chog?.
Look, it is called F4U1-D. It is blue. It is fast in a dive. It has no cannon, but has six wonderful 50 cals wich can do a lot, a lot of harm.
And it is free.
I like planes. Give everyone all the Axis or allied planes they want. Don't take the AC that are already here. In the MA it don't mean squat anyway.
blutic
huhm?...wait a minute...
(pause of 30 seconds or so)
ok, back. I've gone to AH, and the F4U1-c is listed in the hangar options...look, YES! is THERE!...wow...
Me thinks they didnt "take it away from the game"
They simply made a 200-run produced plane a perkie because it was getting 27000 kills each tour. THe plane is there, but now your HeadOns will risk 8 perkies each one.
Pissed?...sorry, get a Dhog and learn some ACM, for a change.
P.S.Thunder I LOVE that pic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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this chog thing is funny - i am mediocre at best and as of today could do like 60 choggy flights on my fighter perkies....its only 7 pts - enough for balance of a low run plane and cheap enough to fly almost constantly. i mean if you land one now and then it will pay for itself. its cheap enough so that everyone can fly one... kind of a 'volks-hog'
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Originally posted by Citabria:
8 points dweebs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Didn't you quit yesterday after another tantrum?
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AH left out a Zero. It was meant to be 70 perk points.
wtg AH, consider perking the top three killers of the previous tour.
Eagler
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The bottom line effect of this is that the CV will be a little bit less of an offensive weapon.
If the goal is to see more early war aircraft in the MA:
Perhaps all 10-1-43 through 6-30-44 should cost 5-10 perks, 7-1-44 through 2-1-45 planes should cost 10-15 perks, and all 3-1-45+ planes should cost 15-20 perks.
If the goal is to eliminate the abundance of uber-rides:
Perhaps any plane that sustains a 4-1 K-D ratio over the course of a couple of months gets perked.
I have to wonder though about the disparity of the cost between those that are now perked. The Ta152 is not a very good ride below 20,000 (where 95%+ of MA action is) but it costs sooo much more than the Chog. Don't even think about a Tempest!
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The perk system is officialy turned "on"
up till now it has been in testing mode.
Do people love this plane.. and are willing to spend perk points to fly it (but not very many) or can they only enjoy the game on the back of a ballistic anomoly.
What is the ENY value of the thing?
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I don't get HTC's decision here..
A Chog is never a threat so long as you can see them. Why would they perk the Chog and not the N1k?
No..I don't fly Chogs, I fly Spits and Tiffies.
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL:
The bottom line effect of this is that the CV will be a little bit less of an offensive weapon.
Yup, this is correct. You can still up in a DHog and take yourself 8 rockets and 2 eggs from a CV. Last time I checked, that could cause some damage to a field! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) You just can't pepper the hangars with Hispanos anymore. Oh well, go land on the CV and reload your ordinance with the DHog.
Also, CVs won't be as important in this map. Every base on the "fronts" are like 30 mi away from each other! GVs are gonna play a bigger role this tour, at least on the "fronts." Of course, I'm still a newbie, so I don't know what I'm talking about! tho I'm a paying newbie now, so yer stuck with my sorry arse for another month! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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This is excellent news. Any plane that is making up 20% of the kills in a tour neeeds looking into. I'm glad they had the guts to do this in spite of all the wining that will ensue.
FWIW I've hardly been playing Aces High recently, it was getting a bit old and boring shooting the same 3 or 4 plane types down all the time. I'll be back in the Main Arena tonight to see if this has improved things. Hopefully it will have =)
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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Originally posted by Karnak:
It seems that after 1 day of Tour 16 no unit has twice as many kills as the unit below it
HUH?!?!!?!?! WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!
It's been an article of faith among the anti-CHog-perkers that EVERY SINGLE CHog sortie would turn into a Niki sortie if the CHog was perked.
Don't tell me....that.....the sorties are being SPREAD among several different planes! Perish the thought!
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Originally posted by Loyalist:
I don't get HTC's decision here..
A Chog is never a threat so long as you can see them. Why would they perk the Chog and not the N1k?
No..I don't fly Chogs, I fly Spits and Tiffies.
I don't get how many people don't get perking or the reasons for it at all :-)
Perking isn't based on some esoteric anecdotal "opinion" of what plane is tougher to kill. That has NOTHING to do with it. (Well, it does to a degree when new planes are added..it was so obvious that the Tempest would take over the arena if unperked it was added to the game perked)
It's based on hard, cold, numbers.
CHogs had twice the kills of Nikis, and a FAR better kill/death ratio (even stripping away all ground vehicle kills.)
Despite the insistence of so many people about the incredible uberness of the Niki (which I've never quite understood), it simply doesn't do very well in the arena.
Your personal opinion (or the conglomerate opinion) about which plane you PERSONALLY find harder to kill or to evade simply doesn't matter. The numbers say otherwise.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 05-02-2001).]
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Originally posted by R4M:
one.
Pissed?...sorry, get a Dhog and learn some ACM, for a change.
P.S.Thunder I LOVE that pic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
thats funny coming from a vulch queen, never saw u with a kill streak unless it was a vulch field in progress, in ur CHOG. ROFLMAO
whels
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nope all saw last night were niki and spits, i think they should be perked, im tried of fight all niki and spits every flight waaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
whels
Originally posted by Torgo:
HUH?!?!!?!?! WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!
It's been an article of faith among the anti-CHog-perkers that EVERY SINGLE CHog sortie would turn into a Niki sortie if the CHog was perked.
Don't tell me....that.....the sorties are being SPREAD among several different planes! Perish the thought!
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Originally posted by whels1:
nope all saw last night were niki and spits, i think they should be perked, im tried of fight all niki and spits every flight waaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
whels
Weren't you in a George yesterday? I had respect for you Whels until you spouted off last night. I made a joke about how many rounds went by my 38 "from 4 other planes mind you" and you turned into a Grade A dickhead.
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(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-02-2001).]
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Stats after 1st day of Tour 16:
The N1K2 has 414 kills and has been killed 390 times.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 337 kills and has been killed 336 times.
The Ostwind has 271 kills and has been killed 189 times.
The F4U-1C has 248 kills and has been killed 142 times.
The La-7 has 234 kills and has been killed 215 times.
The Typhoon IB has 223 kills and has been killed 167 times.
The P-51D has 197 kills and has been killed 206 times.
The Bf 109G-10 has 167 kills and has been killed 142 times.
The F4U-1D has 149 kills and has been killed 174 times.
The Fw 190D-9 has 142 kills and has been killed 99 times
Wow.. since we are gonna post stats that really mean nothing since the commity hasn't really stabilized since the change... how about stats since those stats were posted:
P51D.....70:67
109G-10..68:63
F4u-1D...41:63
Dora.....42:16
La-7.....65:56
Typhoon..102:57
CHog.....97:32
Spit 9...200:141
N1K2.....225:201
Are you really sure no plane is going to double another in usage? How about two of them doing it?
AKDejaVu
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heheh HTC giveth and HTC taketh away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
can't wait for the next round (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I first signed on and played Aces High on Friday, just a few days back. I have about 2.5 months experience with Air Warrior but that's it. I'm a newbie to the online dogfighting genre and very much a newbie to Aces High. In those three days that I first started with AH (Fri-Sun), I was playing a *LOT*. In my view I did not see an overabundane of F4U1Cs in the air and I was never more afraid of them than anything else. In fact, I enjoyed seeing them because I respect the real aircraft. I think I might've even pinged a few and maybe shot down one or two. It does strike me as odd that there is a system in place that effectively makes the higher performing aircraft less accessible to the less successful players. I undersand the effort to try to make for a more diverse aircraft environment in the sky though. But honestly, in those three days I never saw an overwhelming majority of hogs shooting at me.
I think I've flown the C-Hog only once and I've never touched the N1K yet and don't plan to because it doesn't float my boat. I'm a crappy player flying the mediocre P-51B the majority of the time and I'm having a blast! I'm getting blasted too. <g> If I can slip into a furball from a pretty good position I do alright...but 1v1 I'm a gonner and definitely when found at a position of disadvantage (like when raising my wheels on takeoff.)
One thing that struck me was if the sun actually moves and makes "days", one possibility would be to start adding aircraft in order or introduction to the war after so many sun revolutions. So that early in the month of the map we are all stuck with what would later be considered obsolescent planes.
The only suggestion I have is for more early-war aircraft. I'd like to see Wildcats, early-zeros, P40s, Hurricanes, Me109E and even a Mosquito 'cause that one is just plain cool!
-Steven
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"A Chog is never a threat so long as you can see them"
And when they see you.... spray.. d1.2 PING! BEWM. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
"It does strike me as odd that there is a system in place that effectively makes the higher performing aircraft less accessible to the less successful players"
In short, higher performing craft in the hands of less succesfull players would make the arena be one-sided. Everyone would just fly those planes and nothing else to have a chance. Also, higher "performing" (or overmodelled or ufo FM'd, name it what you wish) do not promote any improvement to flying styles... and the newbie does not learn anything BUT how to get a kill on that specific plane(S). Ex: Chog was spray and pray for 1 ping kill hit. N1k is point and click, that plane rarely runs out of E on the most violent manouvers (12g+). Hop a pilot used to this stuff into a normal plane (aka, DHog, 205 (nearest n1k equivalent IMO) ) and you will see just how much those newbies learned flying those planes.
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Once again....WHAAAA WHAAAAA WHAAAA...30.00 a month and a bunch a whiney sissies bit** about something they don't like.
Hell...It's yalls sand and yalls Shovel..Guess what ever you Higher Ups in the game.."The Better" Pilots know best for the rest of us.
Thanks for sharing all your infinate wisdom ole Kings of the Virtual Skies and allowing us 9The Lowest of life forms "dweebs") the priveledge of just being in the same air space as you. Thank you for taking one of the planes that the newer guys liked away and sending them back to the lower depths that you seem to want all the newbies to stay at. Thank you for just letting us in the game to pay homage to your stats by allowing you to shoot us down repeatdly while telling us how we suck and should go someplace else...
I feel I owe you more...How bout 100.00 a month for the bellybutton kicking I take at your hands and the hands of 5 or 6 at a time yet not being allowed to fly something I rarely flew anyway but now have to pay for from my 300 Perks...
Ya bunch a cry babies...Grown men..
CANT STAND THE HEAT...STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
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AKDejaVu,
My joke went completely over your head, didn't it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Ahhh hell with it again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jebo44 (edited 05-02-2001).]
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My joke went completely over your head, didn't it?
No, it didn't.
It just wasn't funny... and it doesn't work well AFTER you post the stats (twice now) as if they are already meaningful.
AKDejaVu
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I'll repeat my stand......
Why have a perk system if you don't use the dam thing.
Should we unperk the Arado so every base can be bombed by 5 or 6 arado's going to fast that you never have a chance to catch them?
Should we all fly the tempest? A room full of 262's if or when it's introduced?
I fly a 190A5....if the 190A doubled it's kills over the next AC I'd expect it to get perked. Likewise for anything else i fly.
Personally I came here cause at that time.. 1.03 it was the closest to a simulation as any game out there....even in an MA environment. The more gamey it turns...the more I wanna leave, for that's not the reason I came here. I could of kept that where I was. The Perk system is a great way to balance an arena without "tweaking" AC...without rolling the planeset..without removing a plane. All the things OTHER games have tried and those things caused problems. With the perk system....it's not permanent......it's flexible.
The dominant plane? FA had the Spit 14...WB had what the 190D9 and another? AWIII I'm sure there was a dominant there. Was that ever addressed? Was it addressed in a fair manner? usually not from what i've seen.
Will something take it's place? It's always possible but for what the F4UC was used for there's nothing that has the complete package so I think for the most part things will split up. If A G10 becomes a big factor...perk it.....Niki...perk it....
Either way, it's the best solution to a problem that's plagued flight games for years that I've seen.
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(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/sigs/wingnut.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 05-02-2001).]
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My only thing is 30 dollars a month is alot to pay and then be restricted on what you can use in the game.
Seems to me that HT should have perked like the top 3 or 5 planes at the same time. Then alot of the drama might be removed, who knows lets just play the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Again, I'm new here but my point was I understand the reasoning behind the perk system which is an effort to prevent the sky from being filled with one type of aircraft. I still think it's ironic that those who fly and score the best are the ones rewarded with the better performing aircraft. I am new here, and I bite. On top of that, there is the fact I'm trying to get used to the sim itself such as views and things...one handicap (I think) is that my joystick coolie hat only does the forward, back, left and right and not the 45 degree angles and I only have four buttons and no throttle. Tonight, I flew my mustang a majority of the time and I think tried a BF109G10 and a Spit once but overall I was in my 51B/D and got my butt handed to me over and over and over again by Tempest/Typhoons (I get them mixed up) and Spits. Heck, in the 51B I'm fighting with two guns behind my back! So this teaches the newbie how to fly and fight? Taught me how to take-off from bases a lot is what it taught me. I can't even really find any good information how to fight one type vs another and so I'm really at a loss right now and it's a cliff of an uphill climb for me.
I take it I'll learn really well if I take a Brewster Buffalo and the veterans take an ME262 against me or even an F-22 or something.
I'm not buying this notion that flying lesser performing aircraft against veteran pilots in superior performing aircraft teaches "proper" combat flying more than the other way around. As for perks to try to prevent an overwhelming number of one type of aircraft...I understand the reasoning and still think it's ironic. I have no answers to that. However, I doubt it was newbies who were overwhelming the game with Chogs.
-Steven
[This message has been edited by Steven (edited 05-03-2001).]
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Hmm...
Allied perk-planes:
Tempest______70 points
F4U-1C ______8 points
Axis perk-planes:
FW Ta-152____50 points
Arado 234____70 points
Maybe we're going to have a Allied plane with 50 points and Axis with 8 points in next UpDate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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You can still up in a DHog and take yourself 8 rockets and 2 eggs from a CV. Last time I checked, that could cause some damage to a field! You just can't pepper the hangars with Hispanos anymore. Oh well, go land on the CV and reload your ordinance with the DHog.
Have fun strafing the osties with those .50s, and I doubt we'll see streaks of 15-18 from the D-hog vulchers. The only cannon armed CV craft now are the Seafire/Zeke/PT.
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Have fun strafing the osties with those .50s, and I doubt we'll see streaks of 15-18 from the D-hog vulchers.
Strafing Osties should not be fun in any plane, no matter what guns.
The only cannon armed CV craft now are the Seafire/Zeke/PT.
roadkille I say. Check CV hangar, F4U-1C is still there and available.
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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roadkille I say. Check CV hangar, F4U-1C is still there and available.
I stand corrected, sorry to have offended you so with my omission of the word "unperked".
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just a mute point:
year or so ago i started online with my 56k and joined AH.Flew evrything in the hope of killing something.improved with time and found a few favourite rides.Aircraft were added and i tried them out.Started to really learn about energy management.Got a renewed interest in flying.Bought ADSL.Bought many books about planes i never knew were in the war let alone read about.Eventually i had my favourite ride not necessrily the one i lived longest in but the ones i really like.
I have been killed 1000's of times and it did not put me off so why should it put off newbies now?
Cit used to kill me when i got here in beta under an old name and me and my friend(schoolbud) used to wish for the day we could get him back.He used to run up 10 kill sorties on us.The way people are talking at the moment they will have you believe if we limit the planes the newbies will leave.
ABSOLUTE roadkill.
Cit and many others used to kill us in everything they flew.The pilot made the difference not the plane.if its 400 off your 6 and you havent seen it it doesnt matter too much what it is, youre dead.
Whilst i understand people not enjoying getting killed all the time its part of the game.Honestly people if you dont like bad odds YOU IN D WRONG GAME (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
perking the chog is to reduce its numbers and is a test.All those that claim the whiners got their way are doing the same thing trying to get it back.abuse name calling etc etc.
Why dont you all try it.
So far for me ive seen loads more variety already.i had hat i think is my first 109f4 fight in absolutely ages (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
just a few of my stats to show you why i feel a few less f4ucs would make my time online more enjoyable:
tour/times killed by f4c/next best killers/sample of other types
16/ f4c killed me 1 / niki killed me 6 /109f4 1 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
15/ f4c killed me 38/ spit killed me 34/niki 20
14/ f4c killed me 21/ niki killed me 25/fw190d9 13 (fw190d9 introduced!)
13/ f4c killed me 19/ niki killed me 14/p47-d30 6
12/ f4c killed me 41/ p51d killed me 23/F6f 17 (f6f introduced!)
11/ f4c killed me 42/ spit killed me 17/niki 9
10/ f4c killed me 27/ spit killed me 29/p47d30 4
9 / f4c killed me 51/ spit killed me 54/109g10 25
8 / f4c killed me 19/ p51d killed me 9 /typhoon 1
basically im likely to fight 1 of 3 or 4 types everytime i fly.If there is someway to add variety ill take it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
oh and by the way after the next best killer the numbers usually drop even more.Admittedly the niki and spit have been more numerous in some tours but i do try to avoid fighting f4cs generally unless unavoidable like cv battles.
maybe the perk thig will work maybe it wont but who knows?
If you have played with a perk system and KNOW it wont work then sit back and look smug for a bit eh? Let US(the whole community) decide what works and what doesnt.
Who do these people who claim to know everything that is best for AH think they are?
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-03-2001).]
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How do you guys pull up them stats? I looked in the roster and couldn't figure it out. I'd like to see what I've been flying and what types have been killing me.
I've never heard of competitions where you handicap the less-able. <g> I personally don't care if the Chog is perked or not. I think I flew it once (and at the time had no idea it was such a monster.) I still think it ironic how the perk system is set up. Maybe you should have to fly the worst planes to gain points to fly the better ones. eh? Put your dues in. But I'm sure that would upset some of the veterans who are used to one or two high performing aircraft to tally up some incredible kill scores. But that's generally how a handicap works and it would limit seeing the same types over and over again even more than I think this perk system as-is does. And it's the pilot in *conjunction* with the plane working as a team, man and machine, that makes for a mean killing machine. Hey, can anyone put some rap music to that?
-Steven
psst, if people don't mind dying here (you vets), why don't I see more P-51Bs and lesser aircraft? And let's get some Wildcats, Warhawks and other early war aircraft in here for you all to die in! :-)
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Originally posted by Steven:
I still think it ironic how the perk system is set up. Maybe you should have to fly the worst planes to gain points to fly the better ones. eh? Put your dues in.
[/b]
Huh? That's pretty much how the CURRENT system works. It's very hard to rack up perks flying popular aircraft.
But I'm sure that would upset some of the veterans who are used to one or two high performing aircraft to tally up some incredible kill scores. :-)[/b]
You're confusing perk points and score. They're TOTALLY TOTALLY separate.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 05-03-2001).]
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I think you are right and now have to rethink. AGain, I am new and recently saw how you earn perk points but forgot where. It appears as though it's based on more gained when a lower-performing aircraft is victorious over a higher performing aircraft and less or none are gained when flying a superior aircraft victorious over a lesser. Interesting. I also found where to find the stats too. I have 30 deaths and 11 victories but I'm sure I was shot down a lot more than 30 times. Does "deaths" mean how many times I was actually killed or does it mean any time I am shot down whether I parachute and survive?
-Steven