Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on December 12, 2002, 06:01:06 PM
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Was looking at some numbers regarding this issue (I will not call it an epidemic as no bacteria or virii is forcing someone to eat more calories than they burn).
Numbers from Denmark vary, but the latest study puts the number of overweight people at 13% of the overall population - but fast on the rise as American fast food restaurants are becoming more and more common. . That puts Denmark, along with other Scandinavian countries, near the bottom of the high score list on obesity. It's sure to change though as the number of obese people are increasing - from 1982 to 1992 from 10% of the population to 13%.
It turns out Danes eat more calories than for instance Americans, but exercise is more common and this helps to keep the percentage of obese people down.
The US is said to have many obese people. Let's look at the numbers.
The data is taken from the CDC.
As the obesity epidemic spread, the prevalence of overweight among U.S. adults increased by 61% from 1991 to 2000 alone.
Total number of obese people: 19%. Obese is not merely overweight though; by definition it is anyone with a BMI over 30. The numbers from DK use the same definition. As predicted, the lower social groups have the highest number of obese people - amongst those not finishing high school, a staggering 27% are obese. Nearly 30% of all blacks are obese. That's one in three - and we're not talking overweight here, we're talking fat as in really really FDB lardy. Looks like the data is pre 1999 though.
Some numbers can be found here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/prev_char.htm
Another chart gives a more disturbing picture. If what's in the boxes is per cent, 64% of the US population is overweight. 30% are obese. It can be found here, but I'm not sure I am reading it correctly. it also shows a sharp increase. This is for people aged 20 and over.
Chart can be found here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/obese/obse99.htm
At the risk of sounding insensitive, obesity is not just a personal problem. It costs society enormous amounts of money. Illness etc means manhours lost but also (here in DK) a large bill to be paid by the tax payers for operation and obesity related illnesses. So even if the individuals themselves may not wish ENOUGH to lose weight, IMHO our society needs to protect itself. Or rather, it needs to lay down some demands for obese people. We do it with unemployed ones. It's stupid -we'll pay for an operation of an obese people through taxes, but we do NOT pay for dental health care with the motivation that caries etc is something that can be avoided and thus it is up to the individual to see to his or her teeth. Is it not up to the individual to see to his or her weight, too?
Maybe I'm just insensitive because I'm a skinny guy - 179 cm, 65 kg. Perhaps I do not understand why it is so hard to lose weight. I can understand that losing a pound or two can be difficult if you're near your ideal weight, but it shouldn't be so difficult when you're 100kg above it - simply reduce your food intake with one per cent and some pounds will come off, simply because 1% of your daily intake is quite a lot if you weigh 180kg.
The scariest part IMHO is seeing all the fat kids. Now that computers, video games, the internet, cable tv have become so widespread kids don't play as much. They're small adults and a greater number of them simply don't do sports or run around playing war or whatever.
It's quite easily preventable, and yet not. Individuals must be free to eat what they want and how much as they want. Yet going from obese to overweight requires one thing: eating less or better.
Any comments?
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Yeah, pass me the donuts.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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The fat people are coming....
:eek:
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- One in four US adults eat a a fast food restuarant every day.
- In 1970 Americans spent about $6 Billion on fast food. In 2001 it was more then $110 Billion.
- Americans spend more on fast food then, higher educationi, personal computers, computer software, or new cars.
- They spend more on fast food then movies, books, magazines, newspapers, vidoes and music...combined.
- Average teenage boy drinks 5 cans of pop a day.
My country, as well is the fattest it's been.
Fast food and soda pop are literally killing us. Luckily it looks like the large fast food chains are starting to fail.
There is one chain I would go to if it was up here. In-n-out, they seem to run on moral business practices and the actually have fresh beef hamburgers and fresh potato french fries :eek: , what a concept.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
[BIn-n-out, they seem to run on moral business practices and the actually have fresh beef hamburgers and fresh potato french fries :eek: , what a concept. [/B]
Of course they have moral practices. They are a Christian owned business. :D
They put (very sublte) evangelical messages on their packaging. :)
I'd like their food regardless. They do a good job and they seem to have found a source of borg-like, fresh-faced, well-spoken, polite employees.
PS I ET UH BEHBEY!
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BMI is total BS. Ill use myself for an example. A year ago I weighed in at 190lbs and calipered at 7%BF. at 5,8 that gave me a BMI of 28.9. The upper end of overweight bordering on Obesity. Acording to the charts, today at 210 I am a lardass with a BMI of 30.9. I wear a size 34 jeans.... I would need to get my weight down to less than 170 to have a "normal weight", and I dont think that would be wise if even possible :) AT 190 I was pale and cold all the time...I didnt feel all that good. Guess I have to settle for being a lardass.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Any comments?
Scrawny Eurotrash...I'm gonna sit on ya the next time I see ya...that is, if I can ever catch ya! :D
SOB
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I'll get Sling to come and if we stand close enough we can form a singularity and suck the little Danish donutwood into the vortex.
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You like to suck things, don't ya Funked?
-SW
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FWIW I used to weigh in at over 300lbs, so I know first hand how hard it is to loose the weight. Or rather, keep it off. Like most people I ate less, to the point of starvation and the end result would be lower metabolism and the minute you go off the starvation diet you put it all back on in short order. I dont know why or what finally clicked but I just said one day I had enough and did it. Through books, the internet and the people at the gym I learned about nutrition and exercise and took the weight off and kept it off for nearly 4 years now. And I find now that I have been this weight for a while its easier to stay here "yea metabolism" :)
I have a couple friends overweight, and IMO it boiles down to 2 things. Laziness and lack of knowledge about nutrition.
Some people its pure laziness, TV dinners, chips, coke...Im too lazy to make something healty. "I dont buy the no time argument, its doesnt take any more time to eat an apple than scarf down a bag of doritos. You can throw a chicken breast and potato in the oven and it cooks just the same as MCain French fries and chicken nuggets".
Then theres the people who dont really understand how to eat properly. They start eating rice cakes and tofu in minuscule quantities ,join weight watchers and drop the weight too rapidly "read muscle tissue loss" and the minute they cave in because they cant stand it anymore they balloon back up because they lowered thier metabolism. Or they dont understand moderation. "Milk is good for you, what the hell are you talking about?" Milk is good for you, as long as its not 2L of chocolate milk a day. Eggs are good for you too, as long as you dont fry them in the greese from the half pound of bacon you just cooked to go with it.
Not sure what to do about it though, we let people smoke ,and thats probably just as big a health risk, and drain on the system as fat people. How do you legislate someones weight?
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Is it not up to the individual to see to his or her weight, too?
Yes it is, so leave them fat bastadges alone. Fat people are repellant to me, but live and let live. Repress your European urge to make the world a perfect place.
ra
(http://users.adelphia.net/~randrew/homereat.gif)
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Originally posted by funkedup
They do a good job and they seem to have found a source of borg-like, fresh-faced, well-spoken, polite employees.
They pay $9.00 starting, with benefits and vacation time.
No other fast food company does so, or even remotely close.
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I can run 20 miles any day of the week (I do run 8 miles a day), yet my charts say I am 15lbs overweight. That said, I am probably an exception in my society.
Yes, we grow fatter every day.
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My thoughts on obesity:
First, most americans grow up hearing "Eat everything on that plate young man there are starving people in Afrika!" and therefore some feel guilt about not eating everthing on their plates even on into adulthood.
Second, most americans feel they gotta get their moneys worth and by george if I paid for it, I'm gonna eat it.
Third, most american restuarants serving size is at least double the calories needed for healthy nutrition. And most americans won't stop eating when no longer hungry, but stop when they gotta let the top button on the jeans undone.
This is why obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, osteoarthritis, and other conditions plauge millions of americans (I'm not singleing out americans because it doesn't happen elsewhere, I just have experience with americans)
So I tell my diabetics and obese patients to not eat everything on a plate at the restaurant. Take half of it home for a second meal.
And as a side note: I tell my patients to smoke, drink, and sex all they want. Because I got five kids and a wife to support.
:rolleyes:
Festus
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Originally posted by festus
I tell my patients to smoke, drink, and sex all they want. Because I got five kids and a wife to support.
:rolleyes:
Festus
I get what you are trying to say...except for the sex part. Are you implying sex is unhealthy, or are you hinting at STDs?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
- One in four US adults eat a a fast food restuarant every day.
- In 1970 Americans spent about $6 Billion on fast food. In 2001 it was more then $110 Billion.
- Americans spend more on fast food then, higher educationi, personal computers, computer software, or new cars.
- They spend more on fast food then movies, books, magazines, newspapers, vidoes and music...combined.
- Average teenage boy drinks 5 cans of pop a day.
My country, as well is the fattest it's been.
Fast food and soda pop are literally killing us. Luckily it looks like the large fast food chains are starting to fail.
There is one chain I would go to if it was up here. In-n-out, they seem to run on moral business practices and the actually have fresh beef hamburgers and fresh potato french fries :eek: , what a concept.
Define "fast food"
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I read through this whole thread... maybe I missed a detail in here, but no one mentioned genetics...
Yes, diet and exercise can be used to regulate your weight, but your body also has its own natural setpoint it tries to reach. 10 people could start with the approximately same height and build, eat the same exact food type and quantity, and exercise the same... yet over time each one will be a different weight. At least one will end up very skinny (no matter how much he eats). At least two will be "obese" by military body fat measurement standards. The rest randomly varying somewhere in between. I say this from having observed the patterns that occurred on the two submarines I served on.
More and more people are ending up wearing glasses because the genes for nearsightedness are dominant and people without glasses frequently marry people with glasses. I suspect that the negative environment provided by fast food and lack of exercise is only amplifying what would otherwise simply be a genetic problem. Obesity or the tendency toward having a metabolism that leads to it is probably no less an inherited trait than eye color.
I eat a lot more food than my friends and tend to mainly eat fast food, I also tend to weigh 170 lbs to their 200-250 lbs despite the fact that we are all about 5'10" to 6' tall. I was once asked by a physician examining me what I did to stay so healthy (low cholesterol, good body fat, great heart rates, and good blood pressure, etc.). You should have seen the look on his face when I answered eat McDonalds and Taco Bell while sitting on a couch watching TV :)
I am not saying poor genetics is an excuse to let oneself go, but I am saying some people really have to work hard to maintain what you would call a normal weight while others do whatever they want and never gain a pound.
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ra, my 'European urge' is actually a call for LESS ggovernment intervention and more personal freedom and responsibility (well, at least the latter).
We pay to visit the dentist, because bad teeth is our own fault.
We should also pay for obesity related illnesses, because overweight and obesity is our own fault.
Read (and understand) what us Euro types are writing before assuming we want more nannying.
The world ain't perfect, nor am I trying to make it one. If I was, I'd be calling for government subsidies for fat people so they could get in shape. Live and let live, aye, but let those responsible pay for their own mistakes.
Genetics is part of the answer. But only a very low percentage of obese people have metabolic disorders. Overweight? Usually not a problem if you exercise (like Kieran who's probably in better shape than I am, aerobically). Obese? Big problem - and usually caused not by genetics but by a calorie intake that is far higher than the bodys daily energy consumption.
How do you chaps think we should go about doing something about it?
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Count me as one of those people who have to work at it :)
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StSanta,
If you don't want the MegaEuro nanny state to fix fat people, you sure fooled me:
So even if the individuals themselves may not wish ENOUGH to lose weight, IMHO our society needs to protect itself. Or rather, it needs to lay down some demands for obese people.
How do you chaps think we should go about doing something about it?
Charging them for two airline seats is a good start.
ra
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personally I leave 'em alone...
Darwin will catch up with them
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<<< Can eat an entire Boston Cream pie in one sitting, and would LOSE a couple pounds. (I have to work out to maintain my weight, or I'd lose weight if I didn't)
Gotta love genetics! :D
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What's different between americans and other countries? The following is a list of causes that could have some effect:
1. You have genetic considerations - a very significant part of american gene pool is of african and latino extraction. Unlike europeans/asians who's ancestors lived in civilised societies with more abundant food for millenia and underwent selection, african and latino population until recently lived in much harsher environment where craving for fat, salt and sugar and ability to absorb those things were valuable survival characteristics rather than a detriment.
Similar consideration may apply not just to ethnicities but class composition of immigrants who came to US - though to a much lesser degree.
2. Significant part of US babies are formula-fed - and it was worse in previous decades. Very considerable part of those formula-fed babies are fed soy-based formulas. Besides valuable proteins soy products have a variety of biologically-active components. Some of them disrupt digestion of valuable elements like iron, zink and calcium - possibly making organism compensate by increasing total food intake which results in fat accumulation (formula-fed babies gain weight faster than breast-fed ones). Lack of the trace elements along with increased intake may disrupt the regulation for the rest of the person's life - making him more likely to be fat. The soy contains fitoestrogens - compounds that act like human sex hormones. Women are encouraged to eat soy to counteract the effects of menopause - so it must be strong.
Such a baby receives weight equivalent of 6-7 birth-control pills a day. How much it screws up the development - probably a lot.
Hormones and lack of nutrients most likely affect the brain development (explosion of ADD/ADHD in US kids) but that's another topic.
Besides soy-based baby formula, the use of soy products exploded in US over the last half-century.
3. All kind of crap that turns up in our food, medicine, materials, shampoos, etc. that is biologically-active - anybody's guess.
You can find a lot of info on the web on those topics.
Thrawn: - Americans spend more on fast food then, higher educationi, personal computers, computer software, or new cars.
So our education, computers, software and cars are very cheap - especially compared to other countries. The food is very cheap too.
How do you chaps think we should go about doing something about it?
We should stop socialist policies that screw up the natural selection.
miko
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They put (very sublte) evangelical messages on their packaging. -Funked
You mean the ol' "In N Out Burger" bumper stickers...where you can remove the B and last r to create "In N Out Urge"?
I'm native Calfornian and have an In N Out just a few blocks from where I live. Never figured out the hooplah over In N Out. Very salty burgers. I guess they are good 'cause they are different, but I can't eat it everyday. Jack N The Box is good stuff too.
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Originally posted by miko2d
What's different between americans and other countries? The following is a list of causes that could have some effect:
1. You have genetic considerations - a very significant part of american gene pool is of african and latino extraction. Unlike europeans/asians who's ancestors lived in civilised societies with more abundant food for millenia and underwent selection, african and latino population until recently lived in much harsher environment where craving for fat, salt and sugar and ability to absorb those things were valuable survival characteristics rather than a detriment.
Similar consideration may apply not just to ethnicities but class composition of immigrants who came to US - though to a much lesser degree.
2. Significant part of US babies are formula-fed - and it was worse in previous decades. Very considerable part of those formula-fed babies are fed soy-based formulas. Besides valuable proteins soy products have a variety of biologically-active components. Some of them disrupt digestion of valuable elements like iron, zink and calcium - possibly making organism compensate by increasing total food intake which results in fat accumulation (formula-fed babies gain weight faster than breast-fed ones). Lack of the trace elements along with increased intake may disrupt the regulation for the rest of the person's life - making him more likely to be fat. The soy contains fitoestrogens - compounds that act like human sex hormones. Women are encouraged to eat soy to counteract the effects of menopause - so it must be strong.
Such a baby receives weight equivalent of 6-7 birth-control pills a day. How much it screws up the development - probably a lot.
Hormones and lack of nutrients most likely affect the brain development (explosion of ADD/ADHD in US kids) but that's another topic.
Besides soy-based baby formula, the use of soy products exploded in US over the last half-century.
3. All kind of crap that turns up in our food, medicine, materials, shampoos, etc. that is biologically-active - anybody's guess.
You can find a lot of info on the web on those topics.
Thrawn: - Americans spend more on fast food then, higher educationi, personal computers, computer software, or new cars.
So our education, computers, software and cars are very cheap - especially compared to other countries. The food is very cheap too.
How do you chaps think we should go about doing something about it?
We should stop socialist policies that screw up the natural selection.
miko
Interesting thoughts on formula fed infants. There could be somthing to this.
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What about the children whose parents are feeding them this crap? Kids in the US are fatter then ever as well. Hell soda companies are moving right into the schools because some boards don't have enough money.
Fast food companies are marketing directly to your children. I don't see how natural selection comes into play here. And the end of the day Americans and their children are becoming fatter and sicker.
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here in my town they actually banned soda in the schools.
no caffeine, soda (sugar), etc...
You should have seen some parents squeaking and screaming about it too... how 'unfair' it was.. lol
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Thrawn: I don't see how natural selection comes into play here. And the end of the day Americans and their children are becoming fatter and sicker.
That's my point - it doesn't come into play anymore because we've eliminated it. Tendency to genetic obesity as any genetically-related illness is a disadvantage in procreation - or it were till socialists interfered with the natural processes by confising helping the disadvantaged with subcidising procreation.
I see plenty of children being stuffed by their parents till it comes out of their ears - especially in a russian community by grandmothers who survived privation - and they are still skinny no matter what. And if you think that american junk food is fattening, you should see what russians like to eat.
miko
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Lol rosco!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What about the children whose parents are feeding them this crap? Kids in the US are fatter then ever as well. Hell soda companies are moving right into the schools because some boards don't have enough money.
Fast food companies are marketing directly to your children. I don't see how natural selection comes into play here. And the end of the day Americans and their children are becoming fatter and sicker.
Right on Thrawn
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I agree with Thrawn..Keep education seperate from corporate moneys...You have to draw a line somewhere on this nonsense.
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SirLoin: I agree with Thrawn..Keep education seperate from corporate moneys...You have to draw a line somewhere on this nonsense.
Why don't you pay yourself for your children's education, then you may be entitled to an opinion what should be in theirs school and at whos' expence.
Public school is not responcible to you or anyone else but to some politician who couldn't care less about your child health.
miko
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Basically we're all just screwed!! ;)
*jiggles fat butt at the crowd*
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ra, what I am saying is that the state should not take the burden, but the individual should. Society protects itself by letting its citizens be responsible for their own actions - some of which are mistakes.
Usually when I mention society or government and responsibility in the same sentence, it's because I want society/state to give out more to the individual. If that also helps the state, so be it. As in this case.
We've gotten it wrong. Now the state assumes responsibility to try to fix a problem and in doing so it gets worse. Hand over the problem to those responsible and the state earns a buck while at the same time allowing more freedom/responsibility to the individual.
Miko said:
We should stop socialist policies that screw up the natural selection.
Preach on bro :D
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wait a minute... is somebody actually saying that something should be done about how much people eat?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
wait a minute... is somebody actually saying that something should be done about how much people eat?
lazs
I think someone was showing concern for a serious medical problem that is affecting your country.
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LOL! thrawn... don't you ever feel like a wussy little busybody? Sheesh... Don't you have any life of your own to be concerned about?
Where will all this crap end? I shure hope this busybody stuff is cyclical and that the pendulum will again swing toward individual freedom and personal responsibility soon...
"Medical problem" and expense is the latest catch phrases that the libs use to pry into peoples lives... Sheesh... If an adult doesn't want to wear a seatbelt or a helmet or want's to smoke and drink.... let em... the guy has a mindset that is gonna make him a "medical problem and expense" sooner or later anyhow... let's just get it over with. How much have we saved... us taxpayers by seatbelt and helmet laws? medical expenses just get worse every year... the longer people live the more expensive it all gets.
It's not a problem to me... I will help pay the "medical expense" I'm gonna no matter what anyway... I say make em pay for two seats on airplanes and call it a day. ...
lazs
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Hey there, can you tell exactly what personal responsiblity an overweight kid is supposed to exercise when he is getting servered toejam food in his school cafeteria? What about when companies spend millions and millions of dollars on research to learning precisesly how to market to him or her?
When he or she in enundated with with marketing in school, movies, television, and just about every media they see? Lazs, you sound like your either naive or ignorant. It's not the 1960's anymore.
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Hey there, can you tell exactly what personal responsiblity an overweight kid is supposed to exercise when he is getting servered toejam food in his school cafeteria?
Most kids only eat one meal per day at school. A can of soda a day won't make a kid fat. It's a combination of what they eat at home, plus the fact that kids just don't seem as physically active as they used to be.
ra
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yep... you are as big a busybody as I thought you were... And yes... I realize it isn't the 60's anymore.. What does that have to do with anything?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... you are as big a busybody as I thought you were... And yes... I realize it isn't the 60's anymore.. What does that have to do with anything?
lazs
Ah. os being social conscience, and poltically aware = busybody? So be it.
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FAT and happy
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thrawn..when you worry about other peoples weight (unless you are a pilot) or you worry about another countries right to bear arms... then yes... you are a fussy little busybody... You are the reason that we need to end womens sufferage before we are all as effeminate as you.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
thrawn..when you worry about other peoples weight (unless you are a pilot) or you worry about another countries right to bear arms... then yes... you are a fussy little busybody... You are the reason that we need to end womens sufferage before we are all as effeminate as you.
lazs
I don't worry about your right to bear arms. I did ages ago, then Rip pointed out that the problem was sociological nature and it got me thinking about the issue from a different points of view.
Obeisty is a problem directly affects me, it hits me right in the pocket book. More fat people, the higher the stress on the health system, then we have a choice of worse health care or higher taxes.
"(unless you are a pilot) "
Student pilot. :P
"You are the reason that we need to end womens sufferage before we are all as effeminate as you."
Stop trying to rationalise your attaction for me.
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This is scarey, Thrawn and I agreeing on something...
Obesity does affect the pocketbook of those who pay taxes for socialized medicine, and they affect the rates of those who have privatized medical benefits as well. The more poundage you carry, the more prone you are to serious health problems.
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Ahhh, lil fat kids running around in ours schools,or should i say lack off running. when as a child I had a relatively good phys ed class, ya know dodge ball,basketball, flag football,baseball all during gym class, my kids gym class well sucks, no dodge ball, the fat kids feelings might get hurt when he gets put out onthe 1st throw, no basketball ,it's to strenuos and might cause some children to have anxiety attacks, no flagfootball the sides are unfairly picked by the children and the one chosen last will get their feelings hurt, no baseball, it has been replaced with wiffle ball, so that the children do not get hurt by a real baseball, and now my son tells me that in gym class they have an option to partipate in atheletic type activities or play BOARD GAMES as part of phys ed class..EXCUSE ME what a crock of toejam this is. Now after school only a few participate in any sports (my son is in 7th grade and lettered this year in High School cross country) most go home pick up their game pad and turn on the playstaion-xbox-gamecube etc, then proceed to get stuffed by their mommy at supper time:eek: bendover big boy,let me hear ya squeal like a pig soooouuuuueeeee
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Seems like a vicous cycle. Schools don't have enought money for Phys Ed and the like. Schools team up with fast food chains and soda companies for corporate sponsorship, kids eat nothing but crap at school.
And the cycle is difficult to break because parents don't want to pay more taxes.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
And the cycle is difficult to break because parents don't want to pay more taxes.
Parents are willing to spend more on taxes as soon as there is accountability for the ones already spent. Unfortunately, the politicians at our local levels have yet to figure this out..."You mean you want us audited! How dare you question how we spend your money!"
Sorta related but..Did anyone catch that story in I believe LA where the Police Athletics Council (non-profit org for setting up athletic programs for under-privledged children in poorer neighborhoods) recently raised 150 million dollars, only to have $100,000 of it spent on youth programs? Man, I'm in the wrong business! ;)
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Schools aren't to blame for kids getting fat, they are to blame for kids being dumb as rocks. School food has never been very healthful, and the fast food kids eat in school now is no worse. Most of the food kids eat they eat away from school. Parents need to take more control of what their kids eat, and find a way to get the kids away from the TV/computer/gamebox/VCR/stereo/mall, and get them outdoors running around like nature intended. This is becoming just another excuse to blame evil corporations for all the world's problems.
Also, there are lots of behaviors which lead to higher medical bills, should we start 'doing something' about those too?
ra
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Because of fat fatties MickeyD's no longer uses the same frying oil they did ~5-6 years ago.
Back then, the fries were the only reason to eat at MickeyDs.
I no longer eat there.. why can't I have a high cholesteral, high fat option if these fatties can sustain themselves solely on MickeyDs and then protest because they keep getting fatter and then get the oil changed to low fat, low cholesterol?!
Fat people are ruining fast food!!!! And dumb people make the coffee cold!!!!
-SW
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Originally posted by ra
Schools aren't to blame for kids getting fat, they are to blame for kids being dumb as rocks. School food has never been very healthful, and the fast food kids eat in school now is no worse.
What makes you think that the food is not worse?
Parents need to take more control of what their kids eat, and find a way to get the kids away from the TV/computer/gamebox/VCR/stereo/mall, and get them outdoors running around like nature intended. This is becoming just another excuse to blame evil corporations for all the world's problems.
I agree that parents should be doing more to get their kids away from mass media. But how can a parent combat corportations that can spend millions on market research to determine exactly how to market to their children. And can then afford to spend billions on marketing to those children, even in there schools. And the reason why they do it is because it works.
Cripes I remember when I was a kid I would go to a movie and the only think they play before the feature was the national anthem. Now there's a toejamload of ads before the movie and there's a toejamload of ads IN the movie.
These corporations are trying to deminish parental authority, they are trying to use scientific marketing, peer pressure, and vast financial resourses to get your child to maniopulate you. They have actually done a study on the 7 different ways a kid nags his parents. And use this information to help design their ad campaigns. There are serval marketing industry journals dedicate to marketing to your child.
Ideally, parents would do a better job and be better informed on how their child is being manipulated. Ideally parents would be more knowledgable about diet and what there kid is sticking in there face. But that's just not the case.
In reality it's a growing problem that needs a real solution. Do I think multinationals are evil? Maybe. I do know that they only have their stockholders interests at heart, not society's, not mine, and certainly not my childs.
Sweden has come up with one solution, they have made the practice of marking to children eight years old and younger illegal.
Also, there are lots of behaviors which lead to higher medical bills, should we start 'doing something' about those too?
Which behaviours do you have in mind?
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I'm guessing he meant things such as over-drinking, smoking, drugs, etc. Did you know that Harborview here in Seattle (Level 1 Trauma center for the State of Wa) has a medical bill for a homeless drug addict thats been revived 6 times in 14 months, for $1,500,000? Guess who flips for that bill due to the "Good Samaritan" law? ;)
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What makes you think that the food is not worse?
What makes you think the food is worse? I grew up eating lunch in US public schools. The typical meal was 'pizza', tater tots, some sort of watery vegatable, and something sweet like apple sauce. The contents did not differ from a cheeseburger and fries, except for the watery vegatable.
But how can a parent combat corportations that can spend millions on market research ...
Were corporations less evil 30 years ago? Parents spend more money on their kids now, that's where corporations get those millions to spend on research. Parents' fault. Not all kids are overweight or physically inactive.
Sweden has come up with one solution, they have made the practice of marking to children eight years old and younger illegal.
Sweden has a solution for everything. How do they know whether a marketing campaign is targeted at nine year olds or eight year olds? Sounds like another useless feelgood bureaucratic law passed by people with too much faith in social 'science'.
Which behaviours do you have in mind?
Drinking, riding motorcycles, sexual promiscuity, hang gliding, sun bathing, lack of exercise, the list goes on. Lots of behaviors can increase one's likelyhood of serious injury or disease. Trying to homogenize health risks has an Orwellian flavor to it. And why stop with health? Other behaviors can make someone a burden to society. Gambling, for instance, can be addictive, it causes people to go bankrupt, and big corporations make lots of money from it.
Here in the US we allowed the lawyer industry rape the tobacco industry, and society recieve absolutely no benefit from it. The idea of personal responsibility should not be overthrown so easily. The best way to stop kids getting fat is to let them play outdoors, no social science is required.
ra
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sheesh... Why do kids even need to have lunch served to em at school? The catholic school I went to didn't even have a cafeteria. Bring a lunch or starve... If a kid stats looking malnurished then for gawds sake take em away from the worthless parents... if they6 would starve a kid what else are they doing?
busybody libs... seat belts, helmets... sheesh... yeah that'l save money... any of you guys paying less for medical insurance? Hell no... the longer people live.... the more medical bills they make.
rip... don't fall for that ol.. "u need to ban/control this or that because it is affecting your pocket and you don't use/care about this that anyway" crap... Why do you think the lefties are so in favor of it? just more chance to get the government into your life. You won't save a dime on the insurace... they will just spend whatever they save (if anything) on some poor homelss man who can't get his drug dose figured out or the dimwit who woulda ate himself to death is now a heart transplant/ lung/liver transplant long term cancer patient... we all die and most of us need extremely expensive medical care before it is over.
Oh... I just heard that they are gonna not allow snowbaorders or skiiers on the slopes without a helmet... as if them ski pants and funny hats weren't humiliating enough.... If it weren't so sad it would be hilarious. Drink your cold coffee and eat your dry tofu french fries ... serves ya right.
lazs
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Originally posted by ra
What makes you think the food is worse?
Regan almost destroyed any sort of regualtion in the beef industry. Clinton was able to bring some of it back. For awhile in the 90's the meat in hamburgers in schools was less safe then that in pet food. One of the first things Dubya tried to do when he got in office was to practically destroy any viablitity the USDA had in actually regulating the raising and slaughter of beef.
One of the provisors that the large soda companies include in corporate sponsor ship for schools is quotas. The school has to get the students to drink a huge quantity of pop in order to recieve sponsorship funds.
Were corporations less evil 30 years ago?
Not sure if they where less evil, but they certainly not nearly as large and powerful. Not the soda companies or fast food chains. MacDonalds has only been around for about 40 years.
Parents spend more money on their kids now, that's where corporations get those millions to spend on research. Parents' fault. Not all kids are overweight or physically inactive.
I agree that at then end of the day it is the parents responsibity to raise their kids and make sure that their kids are healthy and informed. Some apparently can't or won't, do this.
Sweden has a solution for everything. How do they know whether a marketing campaign is targeted at nine year olds or eight year olds? Sounds like another useless feelgood bureaucratic law passed by people with too much faith in social 'science'.
This is the same social science that fast food chains and soda companies use to market to children. Marketing to children is well documented field of marketing. Easy way to decided if commercial is marketed to children, look for the tools and strategies that companies us to market to children.
I agree that personal responsibility is important. And if someone understands the dangers of legal activity and still decide to go ahead with it, then so be it. That is why for this thread I'm concentrating on obesity when it comes to children.
The best way to stop kids getting fat is to let them play outdoors, no social science is required.
ra
That's not aways true. What if the child lives in a depressed urbane environment? The proper placement of parks, green spaces and playgrounds is very much an area that lies within the social sciences.
Some urban areas only have a couple of basketball courts paid for my Nike. Not an optimum enviroment for a child to play outdoors in.
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Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh... Why do kids even need to have lunch served to em at school? The catholic school I went to didn't even have a cafeteria. Bring a lunch or starve... If a kid stats looking malnurished then for gawds sake take em away from the worthless parents... if they6 would starve a kid what else are they doing?
The cafeteria lunch IS the best meal some kids get. And exactly what is social services supposed do with all these kids. Have you taken any in? How the hell is a malnourished child suppose to learn effectively, how can they break cycle, if they don't have a chance at an decent education?
Drink your cold coffee and eat your dry tofu french fries ... serves ya right.
lazs
Make that Fair Trade coffee, free range beef and organic potatos. :D
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Kids that live in ghettos find out ways to have fun outdoors.... there's plenty of things for a kid to do in most urban areas... even "depressed ones"...
I've been thru several areas where the richest person in the neighborhood was more than likely the crack dealer....
Yet there was an abundance of school playgrounds, basketball courts and baseball fields...
The parents need to get their kids active and feed them right... it's not for the lack of outdoor activities, it's the lack of intelligent parenting...
And tell me this.... what good does marketting to an 8 or 9 year old do if the kid ain't got no money?
-SW
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Regan almost destroyed any sort of regualtion in the beef industry.
By what measurement is beef worse than before Reagan, and how does that contribute to obesity?
The school has to get the students to drink a huge quantity of pop in order to recieve sponsorship funds.
So it's the schools fault. Just shows you can't trust government.
Easy way to decided if commercial is marketed to children, look for the tools and strategies that companies us to market to children.
Maybe my question was unclear. Sweden says you can't target commercials to 8 year olds, but is OK to target them to 9 year olds. How do the bureaucrats tell if a commercial is directed at 9 year olds and not at 8 year olds? Social alchemy.
Some urban areas only have a couple of basketball courts paid for my Nike. Not an optimum enviroment for a child to play outdoors in.
Most urban areas suck for kids, and a lot of suburban areas suck for kids. That's always been the case, so it doesn't explain the lack of physical activity which has led to this generation of porkers.
ra
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Yeah... I'm willing to pay for orhanages for kids whose parents don't have enough brains to feed em. I got no problem with that... If the only decent meal kids get is at school then we need to arrest the parents and put the kids in orphanges.. i don't mind paying.. u allways pay eventually anyway...
LOL.. first it was "we gotta feed em at school because that is the only good meal the kids get" bull and now it's... "the meals schools serve aren't good enough".... I got an idea... how bout the schools teach the kids and call it a day? how bout we all get vouchers to send our kids to whatever school we want? This crap about school being tghe parent substitute is getting a little overboard.
The whole thing is... the schools here are government run... which means that they can barely teach above a moron level when they are at their very best... now you want em to be in the feeding kids bussiness? They can't competer with private schools with a third their budget and you want em to compete with resteraunts or even bag lunches? Naa... compete is too strong a word for those socialists.. they wouldn't know competition if it bit em in the butt. Hopefully... it will someday soon.
lazs
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! eat beef