Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: nonoht on February 20, 2001, 05:37:00 AM
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system : "Flames firewall on"
simply delete the C-hog
you wont have HO Chog dweeb
you wont have Chog blue navy cancer in AH
Chog has only 200 exp built so no need to keep in AH
i'm sure that plenty ppl have planes in minds which have more than 200 exp built...
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What problem?
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hummm 15000 kills not a problem for you ?
you don't think taht the arena is not too unbalanced ?
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Heh, we can just all make a promise of honor not to fly C-hogs anymore.
I therefore promise that I never ever fly Chog or Niki in main arena.
Any others up for a challenge?
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I already switched to D-Hog. A happy D-Hog user (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
On the N1K side...hmmmmm....OK, I promise. Welcome back, dear Spit.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Originally posted by nonoht:
simply delete the C-hog
Chog has only 200 exp built so no need to keep in AH
i'm sure that plenty ppl have planes in minds which have more than 200 exp built...
Originally posted by Vermillion <in another thread>:
There were about 45-50 Ta152's build in total, only the last 3 or 4 were Ta152H1's like we are getting.
So what are your plans for the TA-152H then nonoht?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
"You must ALL FLY THE WAY I SAY YOU SHOULD FLY!"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Don't you guys ever get tired of trying to rule the world?
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Toad
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
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Has been killed by C-Hog 2 times
has killed C-Hog 15 times in D-Hog
What was the question again ?
DW6
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12 Kills of F4U-1C
3 Deaths by F4U-1C
Is there a problem?
Oh, in La5 btw.
[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 02-20-2001).]
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S!
Never fly the C/D-hog or the Niki in MA.Tried Niki on a SpecialEvent.It was a monster!Just gimme an opponent and it kills it,loses no energy in a 4G 50 deg sustained turn etc.Has lot of fuel and ammo...A real dweebdream come true.Still needs some skill to fly it effectively.
C-Hog.Pain in the prettythang.Pings once from 1K+ and U are dead.Do these Hispano ammo carry C4 or Semtex? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)Quite maneuverable for a plane with high wingload.Dweeber,but a good ground hugger though.Never fly it.Really the blue cancer.Vulchers prefer it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In the other hand...AH looks more like 45-46 sim soon than a WW2 sim.Why would anyone fly a 1942-plane when U can fly a late/post war monster?!In the light of this the rolling plane set in WB is a good idea.No-one has the edge.Just my 2 cents.
DB603
Lentolaivue 34
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DoublePost
[This message has been edited by DB603 (edited 02-20-2001).]
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I used to hate the 1c but since ships came out they haven't been a problem. Don't know why they just never seem to worry me any more.
I think I worry more about the Lanc than any other AC. They are hard to bring down if there is a good pilot in it.
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1C is easy to kill with energy advantage even with Fw 190. But it is just plain boring to see them perform every duty there was for fighters like jabo and anti tank missions. It makes specialized planes useless. Who would fly Hs 129 or Il-2 if F4U can kill tanks equally good and some fighters too?
it would be ok if it was most used fighter in WWII but only 200 were built, even fewer than Ar 234's... One is perk and one is not, is it right?
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Nope. As I said in a previous thread on the same topic, IMHO a bird is only unbalancing if it has an incredible k/d ratio, and the 1C doesn't. You don't perk rides just because they are popular.
Jochen does make a good point though about tit obviating the need for specialized a/c. That is the best reason against the 1C I have seen so far.
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I know the Chog kill ratio is not so high...
that's not the problem...
When i fly i oonly see F4u without yellow mark flying (so Chog)
i know its not real true but who can prove my there isn't F4u C all the place...
In the begin of the month i've flew on Chog... but i don't know if my mind has raised (excuse my english) but now i only fly Dhog even for jabo mission
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Originally posted by Kieren:
Nope. As I said in a previous thread on the same topic, IMHO a bird is only unbalancing if it has an incredible k/d ratio, and the 1C doesn't. You don't perk rides just because they are popular.
Kieren,
Ve are so zorry. You vill not be allowed to join za Party now, chust because of zis post.
Please go along vith ze nice chentlemen who are chust now knocking on your door.
You vill comply. You vill fly what ve tell you to fly! Ve know what is right!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Toad
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
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Originally posted by nonoht:
When i fly i oonly see F4u without yellow mark flying (so Chog)
i know its not real true but who can prove my there isn't F4u C all the place...
Ahh Nonoth .. the F4U-1D has a YELLOW nose cowl ring ... the C is all blue only with white markings
This is a F4U-1D
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/charts/f4u1d.gif)
This is a F4U-1C
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/charts/f4u1c.gif)
Regards
DW6
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Here is THE solution:
Since the F4U-C is a Navy plane, make it so that you can only fly it from the CV!!
TATAAATAAA
Problem solved. Next!
Broes
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you wont have HO Chog dweeb
But then what would all the HO dweebs that don't fly Chogs do?
For every HO dweeb flying a Chog.. there is another one pointed at him flying something else.
I've dodged quite a few HO passes as of late. I just don't remember many of them being F4u-1Cs.
AKDejaVu
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The problem is a percieved one, and the real problem is the pilot himself who either does not know how to properly handle an attacking Chog or has put himself in a position where any A/C could make an easy kill of him.
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i have no problem with the C hog anymore
EXCEPT
the hispano is too strong VERSUS PANZERS
other than that i dont care about c hog
notice how c hog whines declined since the only real good c hog pilot left aces high?
as much as i used to hate that bastage, i kinda miss him..
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Is anybody else tired of all this incessant whining? I know I am.
And since when is "total # produced in WWII" the criteria for whether a plane is in the Main Arena anyway?
I fly the Chog on occasion....usually when I am on jabo attack missions.
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" I fly the Chog on occasion....usually when I am on jabo attack missions."
I used to primarily fly it for ATG, but as of late, I fly it just to piss off the whiners...it has had an opposite effect to what they thought it would by being so vocal about it..next up, N1K (Or, its ALREADY STARTED!)...then (Pick your favorite ride)..
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The P-51 and G-10 go next. Yep.. that's what I'd like to see. Lets get the CHog and N1K out of the way so we can get to the REAL dweebmobiles.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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I would hate to see the CHog go... It really keeps the dweebs honest. If there were no Chog then there would be dweeby unskilled pilots constantly trying for the HO against my DHog... With the C in the game they are too frightened. Also.. It is nice to have a plane that can destroy vehicles so well.
lazs
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Well, I think my stance regarding Chog is well known, no need to repeat it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I really think that it would help to change the icon system somehow. The Chog biggest asset (somewhat unrealistic, IMO), is the very good ability to hit at very long ranges because the very accurate rangefinder in the icon.
Well, get rid of the range under 500 yards, and up to 1.5K show it in increments of 0.1K only. This will severely limit the ability to hit at very long ranges while keeping a decent measure of the relative speeds and E states.
Another nice adittion would be gun jams because abuse. If you are to start a 20 second spray at pray in a 6G turn, expect your cannons to jam a little (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
With that, and banning the Chog from the Fleets, I think that the Chog would be much less used and so it would let being unbalancing.
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Well, actually, the Marines flew them too, in fact, I believe the Marines became the sole operators after WWII, i.e., Korea.
During WWII, the Marines few them mainly from ground bases... as I recall.
Originally posted by Broes:
Here is THE solution:
Since the F4U-C is a Navy plane, make it so that you can only fly it from the CV!!
TATAAATAAA
Problem solved. Next!
Broes
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Why does the nik keep coming up in these Chog threads. It is not the best at anything. Half the planes will outrun it. 2 or 3 can outturn it. I'd trade the guns for the magic ones on the spit in a heartbeat. If there is a middle of the road fighter in this game its the nik.
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Originally posted by easymo:
Why does the nik keep coming up in these Chog threads. It is not the best at anything. Half the planes will outrun it. 2 or 3 can outturn it. I'd trade the guns for the magic ones on the spit in a heartbeat. If there is a middle of the road fighter in this game its the nik.
The anti-grav motors in the wings might have something to do with it. Back in 1948 a N1K2 crashed at Roswell,NM and there has been speculation ever since.
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 02-20-2001).]
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It is not the best at anything. Half the planes will outrun it. 2 or 3 can outturn it.
And this is different than the Chog how? Oh yea, more than 2 or 3 planes can out-turn the Chog.
AKDejaVu
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To be uber, a plane should be the best at something. Granted the chog has the best guns. What does the nik do best?
BTW. Do about 3 turns with a zeke, or one of the spits. Then try to extend. Your never bleeds E theory will disintegrate, along with your tailsection.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 02-20-2001).]
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Actually, the only thing that makes a plane Uber is the pilot.
I'm not trying to argue that the N1K is uber. Just that it is a more capable fighter than the F4u-1C. The only reason its not seeing greater use than the 1C right now is because of CVs.
The F4u-1C has better guns than the N1K. The N1K has better guns than most other aircraft. The N1K does virtually everything else better than the F4u-1C.
AKDejaVu
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A chog can outgun a nik.
It can outrun a nik.
And at high alts. Outturn a nik.
Are we playing the same game?
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LOL! right easymo.
An F4u-1C can out-dive a N1K. That's about it.
And how many fights have you been in above 20k?
If guns make the F4u-1C uber.. why am I 9:1 against it this tour in a 1D? Same plane, only guns are different... answer please?
Now.. with the 1D.. why am I 9:5 against the N1K?
I've never out-turned an N1K with an F4u-1D. I've never out-looped an N1K with an F4u-1D. I've never out-ran a co-speed N1K at sea level. My only real defense is to dive away and pray he tries to follow over 500. Actually, my other defense is to have a wingman and sucker the N1K into target fixation on one of us. But 1:1 they are pretty damn tough.
AKDejaVu
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I haven't seen a N1K at 20k + in some months now...are you even online today or still HTH?
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I've never out-turned an N1K with an F4u-1D. I've never out-looped an N1K with an F4u-1D. I've never out-ran a co-speed N1K at sea level. My only real defense is to dive away and pray he tries to follow over 500. Actually, my other defense is to have a wingman and sucker the N1K into target fixation on one of us. But 1:1 they are pretty damn tough.
AKDejaVu
i agree totaly
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You will never see me anywhere near 20k,in a nik, for the very reason I stated above. Just keeping the thing in the air at 20 to 30k is a wrestling match. Trying to fight is hopeless.
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"I'm not trying to argue that the N1K is uber. Just that it is a more capable fighter than the F4u-1C. The only reason its not seeing greater use than the 1C right now is because of CVs."
Check Tour 11 stats, BEFORE the CV's:
Chog: 15513 kills, 10928 deaths.
Nik: 6176 kills, 5977 deaths.
I think the Chog is so popular because its BFG, toughness, and roll rate, make it excellent at HO, vultching, and snap shots -- all very important for MA style fighting -- as well as being effective against armor and and ground structures.
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Originally posted by easymo:
You will never see me anywhere near 20k,in a nik, for the very reason I stated above. Just keeping the thing in the air at 20 to 30k is a wrestling match. Trying to fight is hopeless.
And at high alts. Outturn a nik.
Basically, I was rendering your point above useless information, since rarely a fight with a N1K above 20k.
If the C-hog needs perking, then the N1K does, because most abled-bodied flyers have a tougher time 1v1 a N1K than a Chog, Chogs can be easily defeated...
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Popeye... tour 11 was the beta map with the endlessly respawning ground vehicles at every base. The F4u-1C was made for that environment.
So far this tour, the F4u-1C has only 15% more kills <edit>against fighters<edit> than the N1K. It actually has more engagements against N1Ks than it does against itself... the most common plane.
N1Ks are flown alot. They'd be flown alot more if they were available from CVs. I really don't see how you could debate that.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 02-20-2001).]
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Tour 13:
AKSWulfe has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 70 kills and has been killed 20 times in the La-5FN.
Tour 12:
AKSWulfe has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times in the La-5FN against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 42 kills and has been killed 12 times against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 16 kills and has been killed 2 times in the fw190A-5 against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 52 kills and has been killed 13 times in the La-5FN.
Tour 11:
AKSWulfe has 8 kills and has been killed 1 time against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 8 kills and has been killed 1 time in the La-5FN against the F4U-1C.
Tour 10:
AKSWulfe has 16 kills and has been killed 7 times against the F4U-1C.
AKSWulfe has 41 kills and has been killed 9 times in the La-5FN.
Wait a second.. what was the whole point to this thread? <G>
-SW
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To me, the N1K is a far more dangerous opponent than a C-Hog. If you make a mistake or get caught off-guard the C-Hog will have you riding your chute to the ground.
Both are dangerous rides in the hands of even inexperienced pilots. All those cannons and the large ammo load give me nightmares.
-Soda
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
i have no problem with the C hog anymore
EXCEPT
the hispano is too strong VERSUS PANZERS
other than that i dont care about c hog
notice how c hog whines declined since the only real good c hog pilot left aces high?
as much as i used to hate that bastage, i kinda miss him..
From the Joint fighter committee thingy that several people like to refer to for .50 vs 20mm arguments and Pyro has used as well, so therefore for purposes of AH it is a reliabel source.
From this bloated thread, at the bottom: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006835.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006835.html)
That adds up to four 20's equaling twelve 50 calibers, judged by those standards. Of course you have other advantages of the 20. You have much greater penetration of armor. The 20 will go thru 3/4 inch of armor at 500 yards, while the 50 cal, will go through only .43 inchs.
Panzer IV H armor:
Front Armor = 82.0mm
Side Armor = 30.0mm
Rear Armor = 21.0mm
Front Turret = 80.0mm
Side Turret = 33.0mm
Rear Turret = 30.0mm
Top Armor = 10.0mm
According to the book, at 500 yards it can penetrate 19mm (3/4inch) of armor.
So looking at that, the Panzer IV is invulnerable to the Hispano with the exception of the roof armor of the engine starting at the turrent ring and ending at the grill hinge.
Prolly get buried again, it seems to be a confirmation baised thingy.
Edit, took off +5mm skirts, don't remember if this rating was with or without them.
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Lucky Bastage Target Tugs Serving cannon fodder since 1995
(http://bigdweeb.homestead.com/files/sig.jpg)
Fire from the bowels, Nomads own the latrines
www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 02-20-2001).]
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There is no problem with the F4u. As with any plane you come against you need to fly differently.....ie: Bleed F4 of its "E".....don't turn with a N1k or an A6m.
My point is don't change the planes change your tactics.
It has the SAME 4 hispanos as the Typhoon yet there are no problems with that...why??????
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Well I can answer that Skernsk, there are far more people flying F4U-1Cs compared to Typhoons.
However, that is no justification to remove it. I will re-iterate what Kieren said, there will always be one plane with percieved advantages over the rest. Some are real, others are just imagined. If it isn't the F4U-1C, then it's going to be the N1K2, if it isn't the N1K2 then it will be one of the following: 109G10, P51D or the SpitIX which would see the most use. If enough guys were killed repeatedly through HUAS, then they will bring it to the BBS saying something must be done about this plane or that plane.
It's common knowledge amongst the guys who have played these guys for several years that one plane will recieve exclusive attention due to percieved advantages or from "reading" about a particular plane a lot. People read about P51s more than the Yak or La5, but in the right hands the La5 or Yak can dominate. It's all a state of mind among many as to which plane they will fly. Either through percieved advantages, true advantages or from simply being exposed to a particular type as a young-in.
In AH, the F4U-1C has a percieved advantage of 4 Hispanos. I say percieved, because unless those cannons are aimed at you they are not an advantage but just added weight on the plane. If you get past the 4 Hispanos, fighting the F4U-1C isn't as hard as you'd make it out to be from reading the BBS.
Remove the F4U-1C and it never ends until we all have a single plane to fly, nullifying any advantages any person has over you except for their ability to jostle their joystick. So you go from seeing one type of plane being used a lot to a single type of plane being the only thing available.
Nope, don't remove anything.. keep pouring the planes in!
[edit]*HUAS== Head Up bellybutton Syndrome
-SW
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 02-20-2001).]
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So looking at that, the Panzer IV is invulnerable to the Hispano with the exception of the roof armor of the engine starting at the turrent ring and ending at the grill hinge.
True jigster...at "500 yds" a single 20MM AP round can penetrate only 19mm...but what a bout at 300yds or 200 yds or 100yds?
And what if two bullets hit the same spot on thre rear armor of a tank (20MM)....1st bullet penetrates 19mm leaving only 1MM. Then the next bullet to hit that 1MM weak spot will not only penetrate the armour but pulverize the inside of the tank. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Just some food for thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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it doesnt work like that, it doesnt "remove" 19mm so only 1 mm is left.
plus with dispersion and turbulence 1 bullet isnt going in thesame hoel as another.
plus the armor was probably face hardened which would help a bit.
ANYWAYS the armor model is porked, not the f4u-1c.
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Originally posted by discod:
True jigster...at "500 yds" a single 20MM AP round can penetrate only 19mm...but what a bout at 300yds or 200 yds or 100yds?
And what if two bullets hit the same spot on thre rear armor of a tank (20MM)....1st bullet penetrates 19mm leaving only 1MM. Then the next bullet to hit that 1MM weak spot will not only penetrate the armour but pulverize the inside of the tank. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Just some food for thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
That would mean MG151/20 being capable of blowing up tanks with 1000 rounds, instead of current 10000 rounds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Though, AH doesn't model invidual hit spots..
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The point is not about the effectiveness of the Chog in a 1v1 with (name your plane). It's about the effect of the Chog on the game. The numbers are clear. There is no question that the Chog gets used a lot. It is very effective in the MA environment. Would another plane replace it? I can't think of one that would. (Nik doesn't do ATG like the Chog).
Would the game benefit from more variety of planes in the air?
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Would the game benefit from more variety of planes in the air?
Since when does increasing the variety of planes in the air involve removing one or more of them?
AKDejaVu
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When one plane accounts for a large share of those in the air, and a variety of planes would be required to replace it.
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 02-20-2001).]
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Ah.. so there is an assumption that with less planes available, pilots would evenly distrubute amongst the remaining aircraft.
What happens if they don't? You now have fewer planes and the likelyhood for one of them being used even more is now increased.
I couldn't help but note one ironic thing... the only time in the last week that I have seen a sky full of any one plane.. it was enemy G10's.
Maybe I just don't fly into carrier groups and scream bloody murder about all the F4u-1Cs flying from them.
Removing is not the answer. It just paints a bullseye on the next most popular plane.
AKDejaVu
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You missed the point Popeye, read my 2nd post. The F4U-1C is popular, you remove it and the guys flying the F4U-1C just jump to the next plane with percieved advantages. Maybe the N1K, maybe the P51 or even the SpitIX. In the end, it makes no difference.
Until you have a game that has a single plane you are always going to have a plane inside the game that always recieves more attention through either true or percieved advantages.
The F4U-1C has percieved advantages in the 4 cannons and the incessant squeaking regarding them. You remove all of the squeaking around the F4U-1C about 6 months ago and I'll bet dollars to donuts you wouldn't see so many.
IMO the F4U-1C sucks(as does F4U-1D) in the air superiority department unless there's swarms of them.
True air superiority weapons are the 109G2(if you get caught in a bad situation chances are you can either run, turn or climb away from whatever is pursuing you.. in my experience), La5FN(two cannons, 400 rnds, fast, turns very well and climbs well below 8K. I can get 8kill sorties in that plane), Yak9(fast, turns well, good accell, nimble. Got a 6kill sortie in that plane one time, 3 of which were 2 B17s and a Lanc) and the N1K2(no experience there.. just against it and it's really good).
You remove the F4U-1C and the only thing that will change is what plane you see in the air in masses. Nothing else.
-SW
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avoid the HO ,, kill the hog
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I see it the way you do, AK's. No way an MA crowd is going to politely distribute themselves evenly about the plane set. Bet your bottom dollar that if/when the 1C is perked some other plane will account for 20% of the arena kills.
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Originally posted by discod:
True jigster...at "500 yds" a single 20MM AP round can penetrate only 19mm...but what a bout at 300yds or 200 yds or 100yds?
And what if two bullets hit the same spot on thre rear armor of a tank (20MM)....1st bullet penetrates 19mm leaving only 1MM. Then the next bullet to hit that 1MM weak spot will not only penetrate the armour but pulverize the inside of the tank. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Just some food for thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Remember that this was a firing range type situtation...in other words, a perpendicular shot. Adding the angles at which airplanes and your looking at a relative hardness equal to about 30-40mm and upwards of unpenetratable due to angle. Because the armor is not sloped on the PzIVH a perpendicular hit is near impossible from the air at ranges closer then 1000 yards and the shooter still being able to survive.
Hitting the same 20-30mm hole twice would be pretty difficult in one ammo load, let alone one pass.
Oh yeah, and because the Hispano AP round is non-explosive, it isn't going to do a whole lot after decelerating through a few quarters of an inch of face hardened armor.
The engine is still vulnerable to some well placed rounds but the crew is realtively safe from this because of the armored firewall.
The sides and turrent are particularly well off because after the 20mm decelerates through the 5mm skirts, it enters open space and then has to penetrate another face hardened piece of armor.
bah
- Bessy
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And on the range -- Under 500 yards the Hispano doesn't slow down much, your looking at about the same energy and velocity through to @ 700 to 800 yards where major drag starts to slow the round down. Other cannons, like the Mausers and ShVaks start dropping at 300 yards and less.
The main reason for the 500 yard quote was because that source, the Joint Fighter Conference thingy has been used many times to prove why the Hispano was such an "effective air to air weapon" including Pyro. Proof's been there, but nobody's bothered with it.
I still believe that as it's modeled now, weight of fire (or total energy at one instant) is what determines whether the tank pops or not.
- Bessy
(and yes I am being t & c about it)
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I dont like CHogs but i see no reason for them to go. They aren't *that* uber. Its the hispanos which makes them so effective. Look at the difference between C and D hogs.
HO's are incredibly easy to avoid, so that aint a problem.
The D900 1 ping kills get me tho. I suspect its got alot to do with lag, it looks 900 on mine, but prolly 500-600 on his.
I think with the new dispersion model, spray-n-prey is less of a problem now, and with HTC adding the extra weight the chog had in RL, i cant see of any reason to get rid of it or perk it. Has anyone heard anything more of this?
The niki does have some amazing E retention abilities. All too often i've seen a 180 6-7 G turn followed by a 4,000 foot zoom climb tagging me when i never turned an inch and pulled a 2-3 G pull up into the vert @ 450 MPH. But having said that i just treat em with greater care.
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Yeah, I understand the "next most popular plane syndrome". I just wonder if there is another plane that could fill the role of the Chog in the MA, and become that "NMPP". The Tiffie has the guns, but not the ammo load. The Nik and Spit can't do ATG like the Chog.
I really don't think the Chog is a super plane that we need to be protected from. I do think that it is very effective in the MA environment, and that is the reason for its popularity. (Check the stats.) My only interest is in the possibility of creating more variety in the game.
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I used to hate chogs just like anyone else but now I actually dont even notice them unless they two ping kill me. Actually I havent played in a while but thats not the point I'm trying to address. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've grown used to them and enjoy killing these sloppy flying chog HOing dweebs whenever I get the chance (except a few like kbman, fscott, torque, nash, etc...). I have fought chogs whos tactics are to get in front of me for a kill, pass after pass! This is just what I have encountered in the MA.
-- senna
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Originally posted by Jigster:
Oh yeah, and because the Hispano AP round is non-explosive, it isn't going to do a whole lot after decelerating through a few quarters of an inch of face hardened armor.
Remember that OUR Hispanos are both AP and HE in the one shell. You don't have separate AP and HE belting in Aces High. Each shell is a mix of the common belting components.
So, for example, if a standard belting for the 20mm Hispano is 3 HE to 1 AP, each Aces High Hispano shell is 25% AP, 75% HE.
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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Originally posted by Jekyll:
Remember that OUR Hispanos are both AP and HE in the one shell. You don't have separate AP and HE belting in Aces High. Each shell is a mix of the common belting components.
So, for example, if a standard belting for the 20mm Hispano is 3 HE to 1 AP, each Aces High Hispano shell is 25% AP, 75% HE.
I was making a comparison to real life vs Armor, regarding AP steel vs 37mm and larger caliber guns capable of APC shells, explode after penetration.
In other words the AP should have even less internal effect from lack of major fragmentation.
Also, the 25% to 75% doesn't quite work that way. Usually the Hispano armors (all things dependent, on supply, pilot, plane, etc) used 2:2 ratios, and when in a belt, thats 2 AP, 2 HE, 1 AP/Inc (Tracer). I'm pretty sure thats what Pyro used for a guideline AFAIK (Pyro hasn't responded to my question thread in A/V forum) precentages aren't taking into account, but a blend of characteristics such as penetration, muzzle velocity, ballastics, etc. that are not otherwise modified to coincide with each other for total damage.
- Bessy
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 02-22-2001).]