Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on December 14, 2002, 08:34:58 PM
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Sorry it took so long, but I was outa town.
Tour 34 (http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Tour34/Tour34.htm)
And here's the rest of them:
Beta Tour 1 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/BetaTour1/BetaTour1.htm)
Beta Tour 2 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/BetaTour2/BetaTour2.htm)
Beta Tour 3 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/BetaTour3/BetaTour3.htm)
Tour 1 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour1/Tour1.htm)
Tour 2 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour2/Tour2.htm)
Tour 3 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour3/Tour3.htm)
Tour 4 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour4/Tour4.htm)
Tour 5 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour5/Tour5.htm)
Tour 6 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour6/Tour6.htm)
Tour 7 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour7/Tour7.htm)
Tour 8 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour8/Tour8.htm)
Tour 9 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour9/Tour9.htm)
Tour 10 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour10/Tour10.htm)
Tour 11 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour11/Tour11.htm)
Tour 12 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour12/Tour12.htm)
Tour 13 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour13/Tour13.htm)
Tour 14 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour14/Tour14.htm)
Tour 15 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour15/Tour15.htm)
Tour 16 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour16/Tour16.htm)
Tour 17 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour17/Tour17.htm)
Tour 18 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour18/Tour18.htm)
Tour 19 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour19/Tour19.htm)
Tour 20 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour20/Tour20.htm)
Tour 21 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour21/Tour21.htm)
Tour 22 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour22/Tour22.htm)
Tour 23 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour23/Tour23.htm)
Tour 24 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour24/Tour24.htm)
Tour 25 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour25/Tour25.htm)
Tour 26 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour26/Tour26.htm)
Tour 27 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour27/Tour27.htm)
Tour 28 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour28/Tour28.htm)
Tour 29 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour29/Tour29.htm)
Tour 30 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour30/Tour30.htm)
Tour 31 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour31/Tour31.htm)
Tour 32 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour32/Tour32.htm)
Tour 33 (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour33/Tour33.htm)
Enjoy
AKDejaVu
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Seems the Tour 34 link is broken.
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Hmmm.... that's odd... it works for me.
Try This link (http://65.102.58.97/TourStats/Tour34/Tour34.htm) instead.
AKDejaVu
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Works fine now. I guess the route to my host was cut off temporarily.
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ok here's my rant of the day....
i dont fly the 109 much if ever but..............
if im not mistaken the 109 was heavily used in the war AND it was considered a good fighter.
Meaning that the spit V was up to the test big time and a lot say the 109f and such was better.
my concern is why do all the 109's (exception the G-10) have a NEAGATIVE k/d ?!?!?
the only LW rides that have positive k/d are the 190's/262/ta152...why does this look wrong?
again if im not mistaken there were something like 30,000 109's built durring WWII
so why does one of the most produced fighters of the war have a negative k/d?
is there something im missing?
go ahead an bash me but i think there's something wrong woth the flight model of the 109's here. they should be doing a bit better than they are.
oh well my 2¢
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Originally posted by JB73
go ahead an bash me but i think there's something wrong woth the flight model of the 109's here. they should be doing a bit better than they are.
oh well my 2¢
Hardware's fine, it's the meatbag inside that's the problem ;)
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The 109 is a tough plane to fly. Gunnery is the most important part. I see folkstrying to BnZ in a 109 and all they end up doing is high speed dives and climbs because they dont understand the controls stiffen up at 400mph.
The f4 is the best of the lot but you see it flown as field defense spit style. The g2 is just awesome. The e4 rolls like a ju88 and its mgff are terrible and its completely useless in the main. The g6 is a mediocre plane thats a hell of a lot of fun to fly. But with a late war main it takes a bit to fly it successfully. The g10 is sucessful because you can extend/run/climb your way out of most situations.
Flying early and early mid war planes in the main takes good SA because you wont be able to extend if you loose the advantage. The main isnt about acm or air combat anymore. Its about "war winning" and planes like the 109s arent going to be much of a factor in that equation.
However nothing is stopping you from becoming the best 109 pilot in ah. Focus on that and not how the rest fly it. Its more fun that way.
Once you do then pass your secrets to the next guy.
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Originally posted by JB73
my concern is why do all the 109's (exception the G-10) have a NEAGATIVE k/d ?!?!?
Unlike the Spitfires, La7s and N1ks the 109 is flown mostly by unskilled players...
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JB73, it's the same lot with a lot of other fighters, too. When used out of its historical context, the only fate that meets planes that can't turn, or can't run in massive dogfights are just being the first ones to get shot down.
I'm not by any means a great pilot, but I'm still confident I can pretty much handily take on a average pilot in a SpitV with a Bf109F-4, or a SpitXI with a G-2 if they were the only planes I have to face. But when it comes to mixed up furballs where N1K2s and La-7s, P-51s fly side-to-side, it just doesn't stand much chance unless you limit yourself to extremely careful SA - flying with numbers, being the highest one around ;)
I remember Grunherz half-heartedly complaining there's no way to beat a pilot of same skill level in a N1K2-J with a Fw190A-5. It just turns out if I have to face planes like those in the slower Bf109s, I have no choice but to admit my chances are slim.
However, in the CT, where planes are used to its historical context, the Bf109F-4 is like Tempest of its era, in 1941~1942 setups :) , and the other 109s are also significantly more formiddable.
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109 g10 quth 30mm only rules.
Besides the 190D9 there is no better polane in AH.
Right flown u are kinda untouchable.
Iam flying it since a week and learned to aim and hit with30mm and ionly takes 1 hit :)
I guess most of the players here want a fast kill with no or limited knowledge of ACM.
In that case the 109 is thwe worsed decission to fly.
Then better take a La7 up and be happy
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The 109's problem is that I fly it alot! :D
I have taken to flyin the g2, and I fly some form of 109 about 70% of the time I think (could be wrong, would have to check the stats) The truth is, compression is a B****, at least for me. I cant seem to find the proper alt advantage for a BnZ. And workin my way down just lets the other guy get set up for it!
Ah, now I am ranting! this should prolly be in a different forum, eh?
I was trying to say this: 109 is a hard plane to fly, even the germans knew it and many of them hated it, from what I have read. 190 was considered superior but was never used to replace the 109. So, if anything it may be a bit easier in the game than in R/L. You can see the "swing" that was the main complaint on take off and landing, but its not so bad that its actually hard to land.
And as Wotan said, "Gunnery is the most important part", very true and mine stinks!
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What Kweassa said. Because the MA is what it is, and not a remotely historical combat situation, the tactics are also different. We've all seen the massive suicide JABO attacks on bases and CVs. (And I had my score padded considerably last night by several people insisting on making those oh-so-historical (not suggesting they can't be effective) low-level buff runs against our Bish CV to the east of furball island. Thanks guys, always a pleasure doing business with you.)
But the 109 suffers particularly from the non-historical prevalance of one tactic in particular in the MA and that's the offensive HO. The 109F despite it's many excellent qualities is at a disadvantage in that kind of situation, and while some of the later models can pack a significant punch, the round drop with a 30mm makes anything but a close in shot difficult to pull off (and while gondolas really give you a punch in some of the models, many pilots don't use them because of the performance hit). The 190, on the other hand, is breathtaking at surviving HOs, which may be a large factor in its higher k/d. My biggest problem is some guy is HOing me and I'm in a 190 is worrying about his guts clogging up the intakes!
But Kweassa's right, the 109 in the CT is a significantly tougher opponent when matched against its historical counterparts. If you haven't already, check out the current Russia-Finland scenario. Widewing, Fester, and Shane (I think) schooled several of us when flying their 109s a couple of days back guys!
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The advantages that the 109 had against planes in WW2 are void when going against planes in the MA that it never saw.
Its like trying to cite the Flying Tiger's record against japanese aircraft.
Basically, you fly a plane like the 109F-4 because you love it for some reason or another... not because of the advantages it gives you.
AKDejaVu
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The top seven planes have over 50% of the kills in the arena.
It'll be interesting to see how that changes now that money is on the line in the MA with the pilot rank contest. If nothing else changes, my guess is that the top 2 or 3 planes will have 50% of the kills next tour. (course that's an easy thing to say with 1.11 due this tour - of course something's gonna change ;) )
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Originally posted by oboe
The top seven planes have over 50% of the kills in the arena.
You may want to look at the stats from previous tours. Do you think that's more or less planes composing 50% of the kills?
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The top seven planes have over 50% of the kills in the arena.
So?? that has nothing to do with this contest. At one time just 1 ah plane got near 20% of the kills in ah. Check the ostwind it kills more then anything else.
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It is true, the arena is slowly getting more 'diverse'. I think the trend may reverse though, with the contest for money and all.
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So far, it hasn't reversed (just checked current numbers). I'm going to come up with an "Impact" rating too. That's going to show something just a tad bit different... basically a ranking of fighter aircraft in the MA. I should have it on-line by this afternoon for Tour 34.
AKDejaVu
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Can you explain how you've come up with the impact rating? Not a criticism, just curious.
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Its very simple.. total kills vs killability.
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Thanks for these excellent statistics. Quite interesting.
- Most perk aircraft are high in the kill/death ratio.
- The 262 is an awesome bomber destoyer.
- The LA7 is still the main choice for 0 feet arena combat. (LA7=is not good over 5000 feet, but only ze experten know this :) )
- The NIK2 is porked (oops sorry, made that up. IMHO no torque + astonishing max AoA with no harsh stall characteristic modelling = ???)
- Over all modells, the F4U seems to be the best bomber destroyer
- Typhoon pilots appear to be doing a lot better than the anti-bish propaganda would have us believe.
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Two things still stands out to me,
The F4U-1C still has a better k/d and far more usage than the F4U-4, for a fifth the cost.
The P-40 sees virtually no usage, yet has an astoundingly low ENY to it.
JB73, There is a HUGE difference in plane choice in the real world, and in AH.
In the real world, it's better to survive than it is to get a kill. In AH, it's better to get a kill than it is to survive. AH is biased towards planes which can easily snag a kill or two and die, rather than ones which are tougher to get kills in, but better at keeping one alive.
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Originally posted by brendo
- Typhoon pilots appear to be doing a lot better than the anti-bish propaganda would have us believe.
Are suicide deaths noone get's a kill for in the statistics?
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(QUOTE) again if im not mistaken there were something like 30,000 109's built durring WWII (UNQUOTE)
...because so many were shot down (sorry, couldn't resist).
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Originally posted by brendo
Thanks for these excellent statistics. Quite interesting.
- Typhoon pilots appear to be doing a lot better than the anti-bish propaganda would have us believe.
That would be because it's basically an un-perked Tempest! If it weren't for the fact that the Typhoon is the plane of choice for suicide JABOs we'd probably see it's k/d a lot higher.
Second Brendo's thanks for doing this; the info is always interesting.
What really struck me this time (given the discussion of how badly the 109s fare when compared with their historical role) is also how badly the Jugs fare. There's only one (the D-11) that makes it into positive k/d territory, and in general none of them are getting terribly high usage. I'd wondered about this, because I don't see them around a lot, and it feels like I used to (although that could just be perception, haven't back-checked the rest of Deja's stats). Like the 109 they suffer I think because of MA conditions. But I don't even see them a lot in the ground attack role, where they could still shine--could this be because we have an unperked Tempest to choose instead? :)
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Originally posted by brendo
- Typhoon pilots appear to be doing a lot better than the anti-bish propaganda would have us believe.
not all typhoon pilots are bishop ...
concerning suicide ... well .. I don't sucide ... I just suck ...
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I keep a knockin' but I can't get the link to work.
So long as the 190a8 didn't make the top 7, then I'm happy. I wouldn't want people to think I had gone mainstream.