Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: coop2 on December 16, 2002, 03:27:57 AM
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Im trying to put together a new AMD XP system so I can get back to AH but I have ran into a dilema. Which mobo would you guys recomend out of these two? As you can tell I'm trying to keep it relatively cheap. The first option is an Asus A7S333 ($70.25) and the second option is an Abit KX7-333 ($81.95). I am leaning towards the Asus b/c it uses a SiS chipset and I have had nothing but problems with the VIA chipsets. Let me know what you guys think!!!!!!
Ohya, I will be running an AMD XP 2100 off of this mobo.
thanks
mike
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Hiya,
I have always had Asus up until last rebuild and i got the Abit KR7A-raid
Now i must say i seem to of been very lucky according to some reports about via chipsets, But that said i followed all known install sequences to stop any via miscompatablities
Anyways i would got for the Abit but that's just my 2c (or 3.2pence in queens money ;) )
And while your at it you might wanna look @ the Abit KT400 chipset mobo's if you decide to go the Via way
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Asus A7V333 + 2100XP here, no problems at all (WinXP).
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ASUSA7V333 here also with Athlon2400XP
great Combo, have used 4 ASUS boards, two with irongate chipsets and two with VIA....no problems.
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look at both the ASUS Via KT400 chip sets There is the one with a Via chipset (i have that one and its been EXCELLENT) or the Nvidia 2 chipset both excellent boards!
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very pleased with my MSI KT3 ultra2.
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I use the ASUS P4PE motherboard's (http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/mb/socket478/p4pe/overview.htm) feature of Adjustable FSB/DDR ratio. Fixed AGP/PCI freqencies.
I'm sure ASUS makes a comparable one for the Athlon.
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I also have the asus a7v333 non raid/ xp 1800 just built it in July. It was my first "home made" pc ever. I'm quite happy w/ it. No probs. :)
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Anyone here use an NForce motherboard yet? One of my employees has been proselytizing the virtues of nforce and tells me that nforce = cats pajamas.
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Hey guys. I am thinking about changing routes and going the pentium 4 2.4 ghz route. (The 533 mhz bus speed is what did it to me). However, if I go this route I will not be able to afford a new video card or a sound card. I was wondering that if I got a Asus P4B533-V i845G with the built in video and sound how bad would it be? Would it totally conteract the new CPU? It wouldn't be a permanent thing, I would leave it like that until I could save up enough money to buy the video card and sound card.
let me know cause I gotta get this computer thing on the "road" :)
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Don't do it..
Going Intel way will kill your performance if it means you have to skip the display card upgrade because of the added cost.
The Nforce2 boards are the fastest thing you can get for Athlon XP:s - get one of those. They also feature the nvidia APU sound processing which is extremely CPU efficient and therefore saves you CPU cycles while playing sounds.
Nforce2 is the way to go. I have my old nforce1 board and it rocks.. Sounds are great and overall performance is good.
Just make sure you install TWO sticks of ddr ram because nforce boards use double channel memory - two sticks are faster than one.
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Unless your a true to heart FPS freak, Intel is a perfectly fine and stable platform that will do whatever you want.
What vid card do you currently have coop?
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You forgot to add 'for double the price' Tumor.
A CPU upgrade will do no good if you run a GF2 or low GF3.
Radeon9700 has been reported to give real performance boost even on lower end computers..
So only optimal way is to upgrade both. Dumb way is to pay double money for the CPU and mobo just for the brand name and lose 50% in fps because u cant afford a r9700 afterwards.
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Thats not completely ture......
i had an :
ATHLOM 850
512 pc133 ram
GF2 32mg GTS
got 35 max FPS
10 min FPS
Same video card in new system.
Athlon Xp2200
mobo Asus A7V8X
512 PC3200 ram for the KT 400 chip set.
Now 85 max FPS
45 min FPS
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Well of course if you had an ancient CPU like athlon 850 you're going to see an fps boost..
But what if this guy has Gf2 MX or something? He would waste loads of money buying hardware for DOUBLE THE PRICE bang for bucks wise and get almost nothing in return.
Where as investing the difference in price to a Radeon9700 will boost his fps to 200+
I wouldn't even consider the intel way unless I had so much money that I could buy the most expensive system money can buy.
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lol... ok. Well I'll stand my ground. Intel will provide what coop is looking for. Intel over AMD is worth every penny IMHO.
Tumor
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Tumor, you ever own an Athlon XP?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Tumor, you ever own an Athlon XP?
Nope... aint gonna either. I know too many people who do.
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Tumor sorry but you don't have a faintest clue what you're talking about. No offense.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Tumor sorry but you don't have a faintest clue what you're talking about. No offense.
Gosh thanks mrsid2. I guess your a rocket scientist. I'll be sure and consult you the next time I go to put a system together. No offense.
Having watched this forum and many other hardware boards etc... I have reservations about building AMD systems for folks. I see too many reported glitches, errors etc and I'd rather be building systems than doing service runs. Just my opinion.
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Actually Tumor, now that I look at the prices I have to say you do have a point.
After recent pricecuts on lower-end Intel processors they're pretty competitive in price if you stick to speed levels under 2.5Ghz (which is highest that AMD goes anyway.)
So I have to take back some of my words, I can't see a reason any longer (with current pricing) why not to buy Intel. Just don't spend it all on CPU, the displaycard is one if not most important factor when looking at game performance.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
.....the displaycard is one if not most important factor when looking at game performance.
AMD will still pump out about 10-15% more FPS AH. Thing is..... there's a certain mark well below max system FPS that our human eye's can't distinguish. I've heard it's anywhere from 24 to 36 (had an Imagery specialist tell me it was lower than that). For me, at least what I "think" my eye's interpret, it's about what the AH counter displays as around 40ish... I can't see any difference at all beyond that area. So, if I'm seeing things clearly in dense graphics at 16x12x32 I really don't care if the FPS is 45 or 120. The margin of differnce between any two high(er) end systems is well within whats required for comfort.
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Tumor in theory that may be so, but in real life game situations there will always be times when your screen gets filled with polygons.. And those times are usually also the ones where you dont need a freezing graphics.. So if you get a steady 40fps, a couple fast turns, view changes, 10 enemies around you and tracers flying.. You'r fps drops to 15 just for a second.. And it's enough often to make you lose the edge.
The fluctuations in AH fps mean that you have to have 80ish minimum to be able to comfortably fight in any given situation. Same goes with many other games, especially fps(first person shooter) games gain from high fps.
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I just installed my new motherboard 2 nights ago. Setup went flawless with Winxp. After I updated bios my video card is working at 8x . I suggest this board to anyone looking for a stable and reliable board at decent price. $79.00
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there's a certain mark well below max system FPS that our human eye's can't distinguish
well I think for example that 'Disneys snow white and the severn dwarfs' has a FPS of around 16-20 (dont quote me) but really you need 30 FPS to be smooth to the eye) so they say.
but this is for 2d animation, if you spin 180 degrees in 1 sec you'll only see 30 frames (at FPS 30) which means a change of 6 degrees each frame.
So obviously the more FPS the better to keep these exteme movements silky smooth and allow you to track fast moving targets.
(also I think the movement between frame is exagerated the lager the image, so if you project AH onto a wall at 4 feet x 6 feet you will notice frame rate more than if you played with the same frame rate on a 10 inch monitor)
Extra note: playing at 60htz refresh rate will give you a headache try for at last 75htz if you can. :)
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Oh man guys this turned into a heated discussion quick!!Currently I have a AMD XP 1600 running off of an epox 8kha+ mobo. The reason I am upgrading is b/c the girlfrined wants her own computer and I figured that I mind as well build an even better machine. Anyways, I did end up going the intel route but I took a different approach. I went to http://www.ocsystem.com and I decided to buy this http://www.ocsystem.com/valovinpen4d.html (http://) . However I upgraded to the Asus P4Pe mobo. Have ay of you guys heard of this place before? I have heard some pretty scary things but I have also heard a lot of good things as well.
This brings me to my next point. Do you guys think that a geforce 4 mx will be good enough to really take advantage of the new speed? At $80 the price is right.
thanks for the help and time guys
coop
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NO, I had a Gforce MX400, I hated it. Hold out for something better.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by coop2
Oh man guys this turned into a heated discussion quick!!Currently I have a AMD XP 1600 running off of an epox 8kha+ mobo. The reason I am upgrading is b/c the girlfrined wants her own computer and I figured that I mind as well build an even better machine. Anyways, I did end up going the intel route but I took a different approach. I went to http://www.ocsystem.com and I decided to buy this http://www.ocsystem.com/valovinpen4d.html (http://) . However I upgraded to the Asus P4Pe mobo. Have ay of you guys heard of this place before? I have heard some pretty scary things but I have also heard a lot of good things as well.
This brings me to my next point. Do you guys think that a geforce 4 mx will be good enough to really take advantage of the new speed? At $80 the price is right.
thanks for the help and time guys
coop
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Agree with Nuttz. The words "Video Card" and the acronym "MX" together are never really a "good" thing. Don't expect dazzling performance by any stretch.
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So you guys think I should spend a little more and get a Ti?
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If you want speed with less money, you have to get an ATI card..
Radeon 9500 pro gives a very high performance for a low cost.
Whatever you do, do NOT buy Geforce4 MX420. I personally wouldn't buy any of the MX line cards, theyre basically just souped up geforce2's. In MX420's case it's not even souped up, it performs as bad as the Geforce2MX SDR!!!!
Remember that the display card is THE most important factor with your gaming performance. It's the wrong place to save. A Pentium IV 3Ghz system will give you a whopping 15-20 fps in most modern games if it's equipped with MX420. A radeon 9xxx on the other hand will blow your fps through the roof with the same machine.
One thing I forgot when discussing with Tumor: Intel CPU's have now built in a system called cassandra. This hardware system enables microsoft to kill your computer with a security update (if you don't have a legal copy of the OS), it enables MS to stop you from running ANY programs that are not licenced with MS, it enables MS to stop you from playing any MP3's or AVI's which are not paid for etc. funny stuff.
Basically the system will not let you boot up your computer if a wrong checksum is found with OS. It's the ultimate Big Brother of computers..
If the Digital Millenium Act goes through, none of the Intel owners really own their computers anymore.. Because your computer will be controlled totally by a third party, Microsoft and RIAA. :)
AMD has reported not to add this function to any of it's CPU's. A big reason why I'm going to stick to AMD regardless of the Intel price.
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Are u serious???? I hope this dosen't sound bad but I *think* (wink, wink) my OS is a copy of XP pro!!!! How serious are they about regulating the programs a computer has?????? I d/l a ton of MP3s as well. YYou are right when usay that it is the ulitmate in "big brother", can't do anything without being watched. Is thier any way I can block this out or anything, I sure hope so or else I am really screwed. I like to continue this in a private discussion. please email me or send me a private post.
thank you
mike
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If you're an american and believe in freedom, you SHOULD read and sign this petition and all others you can find:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nixdmca/petition.html
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Originally posted by mrsid2
If you're an american and believe in freedom, you SHOULD read and sign this petition and all others you can find:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nixdmca/petition.html
MS can do what they want to limit use... doesn't phase me a bit. Whatever they do thats not acceptable will be cracked, hacked, chew'd up and spit out before it even gets released :) It's a good thing there are so many smart folks out there who's goal in life is to do stuff like that.
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First of all don't, I repeat don't use an AMD CPU. Buy Intel and the Asus P4PE board.
All I see on these boards are troubles associated with AMD. I have built a number of Intel CPU machines and have had no trouble. They fire up right away and work as advertised.
If ya love spending time tracking down problems and spending a whole bunch of time under the hood of your computer by all means buy AMD. If ya can't afford to upgrade to Intel I feel real sorry for ya as you have no choise:( You will have to buy the headache CPU:(
Good luck if ya are stuck with AMD.
V-card:This is either ATI or a ti4600. Have 4600 and am pleased. Have only heard good things about ATI. Best way to find out what you like is to try both!
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Originally posted by OZkansas
First of all don't, I repeat don't use an AMD CPU. Buy Intel and the Asus P4PE board.
All I see on these boards are troubles associated with AMD. I have built a number of Intel CPU machines and have had no trouble. They fire up right away and work as advertised.
If ya love spending time tracking down problems and spending a whole bunch of time under the hood of your computer by all means buy AMD. If ya can't afford to upgrade to Intel I feel real sorry for ya as you have no choise:( You will have to buy the headache CPU:(
Good luck if ya are stuck with AMD.
V-card:This is either ATI or a ti4600. Have 4600 and am pleased. Have only heard good things about ATI. Best way to find out what you like is to try both!
Oh you HAD to do it didn't ya Oz!!! ROFL!!
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Tumor if the computer has the locking mechanism built in to hardware its extremely difficult to get a universal hack to circumvent it.
Therefore I'm going to stay on hardware that will never implement this functionality.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Tumor if the computer has the locking mechanism built in to hardware its extremely difficult to get a universal hack to circumvent it.
Therefore I'm going to stay on hardware that will never implement this functionality.
ok..... I have no idea what you're talking about? Are you referring to CPRM? If so, thats hard-drives and such, not cpu's and requires all parties involved to sign-on (except end user) and it definately hasn't been the big success it was thought to be (by the entertaiment suits). I can't find anything on cassandra. If it's whatever MS called the algorithm they built into the last service pack (software), that was hacked before the service pack was released. Without a good key OR a hack the service pack would lock you out... but only to a point. I'm interested... gotta link?
Originally posted by mrsid2
If the Digital Millenium Act goes through, none of the Intel owners really own their computers anymore.. Because your computer will be controlled totally by a third party, Microsoft and RIAA. :)
.....it was signed in to law in 1998 by Kommrad Clinton.
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Tumor it couldn't have been signed in -98 because the whole initiative was made in 2002. Probably what I'm talking about is an addition to the old act..
There really aren't articles around about cassandra, I must have remembered the name wrong. In any case, it's a system which Intel hardware will have built in to the cpu's and motherboards. It will lock out non-signed digital content by hardware.
Here's one example although not exactly what I was talking about:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15686.html
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Tumor it couldn't have been signed in -98 because the whole initiative was made in 2002. Probably what I'm talking about is an addition to the old act..
There really aren't articles around about cassandra, I must have remembered the name wrong. In any case, it's a system which Intel hardware will have built in to the cpu's and motherboards. It will lock out non-signed digital content by hardware.
Here's one example although not exactly what I was talking about:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15686.html
Well... it was signed into law in 1998.
http://www.educause.edu/issues/dmca.html
http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/band.html
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/hr2281_dmca_law_19981020_pl105-304.html
Your article covered CPRM, and from Dec 2000 (2000 is the latest "big" news I can find on it. It's just not a big deal 2yrs later (not saying it or something like it won't be, however right now it's not... and I've ~never~ heard anything about it being included (or anything like it) in cpu's or motherboards. Intel CPU's do(did?) have a neat little gizmo built in that would report back to MS... which you can disable from your bios, but thats a whole different story.... folks routinely send gobs of data to MS already from a couple of different sources on your computer already... and even thats no big deal... MS "may" have the time, they "probably" have the ability to compile data but... IMHO they have very little ability or desire to start chasing every single MP3 downloader in the world (among other things)... even Billy boy can't afford that.
CPRM (2000)
3. How does this "break" existing software?
In itself, it doesn't. Several things must happen. The hardware must be CPRM-compliant, and have CPRM activated in the firmware by the manufacturer, and the user must then download CPRM-ready media, such as audio files or documents, using CPRM-compliant software. The media downloaded must also have restrictions placed upon its reproduction - but then, that's the whole point of protecting files with CPRM isn't it?
The user must also have the keys - or access to the keys - when the signed media is moved, or copied or deleted. Downloaded media is associated with an individual drive, so if you can't produce the keys, then restore operations will fail. If you can't produce the keys, then RAID software will break. If you can't produce the keys, file optimisation and disk defragmenters will be unable to move the blocks used by the media. If you can't produce the keys, one-to-many imaging programs will break...
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Tumor I really haven't dug into it closer since it doesn't directly affect me.. But it seemed to raise alarm in the hardware community around summertime 2002, not two years ago. So there must be a new amendment being lobbyed to it or something.
The thing you're talking about is the unique serial number in Intel CPU's which was the first step in slowly implementing this new technology. Thier aim is to make your computer uniquely identifiable and then by forced hardware, enforce digital copyrights and media content.
The technology I'm talking about 'breaks' current software if it's not tagged by MS etc. as a 'legal licensed' software (theoretically.)
Since it's not yet implemented, nobody really knows what might come out of it. Basically it enables the content providers to control anything you run on your computer, anyway. That means your computer won't boot with Linux or illegal MS OS on hd, your computer won't play mp3's which haven't been paid for etc. nasty stuff. At worst case scenario it might mean total control of the files you're allowed to see and use on your computer, with your government (or government within the government, MS) controlling what you should or should not see on the files or even on internet, for example.
Some people took it seriously enough to file a patent to it's use as an OS licencing tool (in attempt to stop MS from using it as such despite thier assurances that it won't happen.)
Some of the functionality is already in the software such as MS mediaplayer 9. If MS chooses they can set your mediaplayer not to play your free downloaded mp3's or avis anymore - and you approved it all when you signed the EULA.
Needless to say I don't have MP9 installed.. :)
Sorry I don't have more exact links available atm, but at the time I read about it, it was considered a viable threat to digital freedom.
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You're talking about Palladium, something unrelated to the Digital Millenium copyright act. You just got them confused.
Palladium will be an OS that integrates with a special BIOS to only run code that is 'trusted' by Microsoft or some other signing authority. Things that'll never be meet the standards of 'trust'? MP3 rippers, Linux, and P2P sharing programs. I imagine Microsoft's competition will need to jump through some real hurdles to be 'trusted' as well.