Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: storm on May 02, 2001, 09:03:00 AM
-
While many players are enjoying and laughing at the perking of the f4c i really didnt enjoy it at all.
Yes i fly the f4c since tour2 and do it proudly.You can call me all the names you want i just shrug it off.I have tons of perkpoints so this isnt a issue for me at all.I got as many kills in a C as in a D last tour.I use the C for jabo and still think it's the best ground support fighter there is.
The only reason i die is because i did a stupid move or thought i'm Mr.Rambo and try to win a 5v1 or thought that i could get away with a quick sliding HO,not because my opponent is flyin a laser mounted star wars
space fighter flying on train rails.
The issue that hurts me most is why everyone wants to balance the arena like this.The F4C is a great tool for newbies to learn gunning jabo etc in a pretty forward easy plane to fly.Many newbies use it and I think they should before moving on to harder planes.It's tough enough to get killed all the time...at least give em the fun to kill something with a laser gun..they might wanna stay through the steep learning curve.
How can a arena be balanced by a simple data sheet of k/d?Most of F4c's kills are vultches and not hard earned 1v1 or tougher
like the kills of harder planes.Can you compare a guy that vultches 10 planes and has k/d of 10 and a guy that shoots 2 planes in a 2v1 and has a k/d of 2.Does this show the guys skill?So IMHO numbers dont explain too much.They just hard evidence for people
who want to use that data for a specific purpose.It is easy to get a 5 kill sortie in a f4c...so what's the big deal with that.I know it's really hard to get a 5 kill sortie in a 109...but that's a pilot's choice.He knows for himself that he has achieved more than a 15 kill sortie in a f4c.Pitty that score doesnt reflect that skill.
Now it got perked and newbies have a hard time to get those.Ask a newbie to make a 4 kill sortie in a 109.Yes you can shout the D is the same....but still it is useless in jabo against acks.Newbies should move on to ACM when they think that HO's are becoming boring and that SA could help them more than just spray and pray,not because they getting harrassed that they fly a easy plane or are pressed into switching planes because they dont want to take the heat.
Mostly the whining comes from LW pilots.I respect all planes in AH,even the niki.I know how it behaves so i can prevent getting killed by it.Same with other f4c's etc.
But LW pilots are normally excellent sticks
that can kill a f4uc without a problem.I know that a 109 is unreachable for me,unless he does a stupid mistake.I really do hope the sky gets crowded in AH one day just with 109's 190's and p51...let's see what happens then.Ahh btw i forgot ost's too.Will be fun to see those 109's 30 mm trying to kill ost's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
This whole F4c trampling,especially by the very good sticks is sad.It's like getting a opponent plane away with just clever talk and
not with good flying.For me the excellent sticks in AH should be guiding people that
newbies should look up to and respect.Now every newbie that wants some attention and respect is shouting the same stuff as the hot jocks.Many newbies are even afraid to fly a F4C just not to get flamed by other.
It seems that whining against the F4C is the
entry fee to pay to obtain respect amongst the LW community...and that's sad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Now you got what you wanted.I'm waiting what will be the next target so those altitude flights dont get boring and you got something to vent on.
Ok now enough of complaining and a suggestion
to HTC and the whole community here.Why dont we perk all the planes according to rank.And perk em relative to their strenghts.So a newbie can fly em all and better pilot will have to pay for it acording to his rank in the specific area..ie fighter, bomber ,vehicle rank..not the combined rank.Maybe a stupid idea that has it's drawbacks too but maybe a
way to increase friendliness amongst all of us.
btw my 1st language isnt english so there might be tons of spelling mistakes and maybe some not too clear stuff.Sorry
<S>
-
For !$·"%· sake, some people simply dont understand?
I fly LW. I hate the Chog turbolasers. I hate the friggin plane, while I LOVE the Dhog. Heh, go figure. One of the planes is one of my all-time favorites while the other I simply can't stand. I've NEVER hidden this deep bias towards the Chog.
But I didnt want the plane to be perked because I hated it, nor its guns, nor anything else. I wanted the plane to be perked because this:
The F4U-1C has 27717 kills in Tour 15.
You say that the newbies ride for jabo..blah blah blah...nice plane to learn blah blah blah.
Well, the Dhog is still there. It has FOUR more rockets and exactly the same bomb loadout. And dont tell me that a newbie needs training on how to straffe an hangar,or the acks with 20mm cannons instead of 50 cals, because a 3 year old kid can do that even with a Mk108 30mm.
dont take me wrong, I was a newbie and I flew the Chog at the start. Of course I loved the four turbolasers (until I figured out why did my FW190A8 fly so bad,LOL go figure my newbiness factor!!!). And I can tell you what I learnt while I was flying the Chog. NOTHING. Just see around, point and click. Spray 2 hundred rounds and hope for a couple of pings to rip apart an enemy plane's wing. I used to get 2-3 kills each sortie this way. And I learnt NOTHING.
Do you want to know in wich plane did I learnt the most?...in the Fw190A8, with the old FM. The easy plane is NEVER the best way to learn because it causes bad habits. It teaches you nothing. And the Chog IMO, causes bad habits and teaches nothing but point-and-click, and HO and run.
In any case, the Dhog will teach the newbies better how to jabo. And how to FIGHT. Because they have four more rockets (giving better rocket firing training), the same bomb load and six wonderful long range weapons to straffe the acks of the fields, while not being proton torpedoes wich allow for instantkill (tm) snapshots, or otherwise suicidal HOs.
You acuse the people of whining on the Chog to get it perked. I say that if we whined, at least we got a reason. You say that the Chog should not be difficult to kill and I agree. The other day I engaged a Chog wich was on fumes with an almost full-loaded D9, and I beat it in a close turnfight. The problem is not that the plane itself is a monster ,the thing is that the plane got more than TWICE the kills of the second ranked plane (the N1K2) ,and almost FOUR times than the fourth Ranked plane. And the reason is that its' got too much powerful weapons.
Now it costs 8 perkies, so the usage will be lower, and the Chog will resort to ACM instead of HO-and-Run tactics (because in a HO they risk to lose the 8 perks they invested on the plane). Net result: better plane balance and better fight qualities.
I say that the only one here whinin without motive is you, because I, at least have 27717 reasons to say it is unbalancing.
You've got a Dhog in the hangar. It is the Chog's twin. Fly it, for cod's sake, and stop the old song.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Newbie wants to learn ACM ???
fly a spit
-
Originally posted by R4M:
For !$·"%· sake, some people simply dont understand?
I fly LW. I hate the Chog turbolasers. I hate the friggin plane, while I LOVE the Dhog. Heh, go figure.
But I didnt want the plane to be perked because its guns, nor anything else.
<Rip walks down the path..."Hmm, looks like BS (picks it up, sniffs...) Smells like BS...it must BE BS> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Liar liar pants on fire. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Ripsnort, if you'd know me better you'd know that the Corsair is one of my favorite all-time planes. I have stated it a lot of times in this same BBS. And in fact the first plane I took for a ride in Aces High was a Dhog. Wich I promptly groundlooped (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And while I hate the guns ,I dare you to find a single quote from me claiming the Chog to be perked because it has big guns. I say that they have too much power, and have always said that. But when I talk about the hispanos I always said "fix them" ,not "perk them".
When I have said "perk the Chog" has always been with the argument of its massive usage.
Get your facts straight.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Hey, lookie what I found, an old post by some guys named RAM: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
F4U1-C is outbalancing due the fact that its never-jamming turbolasers make an otherwise perfectly normal plane a lazerbird.
either perk it. or give it true hispanos(with jammings, poor ballistics, gun overheating, etc). That way it will stop being outbalancing.
-
S!
Why is this "whining" always put on shoulders of Luftwaffe pilots?There were for sure other ppl too that complained about the C-Hog and not JUST us LW-pilots...As Rip said..BS!
It is perked for a small "fee" IMO.Not too hard to earn in a Spitfire,Tiffie for example.
About 109...It is a hard plane to master(E-management is crucial) and definitely not for beginners,but what a joy when U get the hang of it.The whine is even greater at the Allied side when they get squished in their "Uber" rides by an obsolete and crappy 109 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)190 offers in some areas better performance than 109 and also teaches well B&Z,E-management etc.Not to forget the punch of the 4 x 20mm...
And for beginners there are better planes to fly and actually learn something about ACM etc.Spitfire(for example) is easy to fly,has good firepower.It needs to be flown properly to get any results but the pilot learns to use the plane better...A boring point&click for sure is not the best way.
And as last comment..The experienced trainers are here to offer help and tips to new guys.Ask for help and U get it.And I am sure many of us more seasoned players(not me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) help out whenever we can.
------------------
DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
-
Huhm.....maybe I fell because my short-memory on this one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
But my main complain to make the Chog a perk has almost always been the numbers. The hispanos are proton torpedoes, but I dont want a plane to be perked because it is too good, but because it is massively used.
See,for instance I've never (that I remember of (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) said I want the nik perked, even when It is MUCH bigger threat than the Chog for my flying style. And it has doubtful E-retaining,IMHO, aswell.
Now think why dont I say "perk it" when it is clearly a more difficult plane to beat. Reasons is that its numbers of usage, while high are not so out of bounds as the Chog's.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Oh, and here's another one that complains about the Turbo lazers and the FM, so which is it Ram, Turbo lazers? FM? Over usage?
So, if you tell me that F4U1-C does the magic dance it does because it is lighter because less
hardpoints than DHog, fine. Remove one of the hardpoints and let the Hog with only one. And add the
wet wings,too.
If you tell me that F4U1-D does HAVE both hardpoints as modelled, then the FM has to have something
wrong. Because only the change of weapons/ammo doesnt explain 100fpm more and the incredible
E-retaining that the Chog shows all day long.
Methinks that a FM revision is in order.
[/b]
-
heh heh...you were saying RAM....
-
"If ya can't beat it, Perk it!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Obviously, you don't fly JABO, R4M... the guns on the DHOG are useless for de-acking a field. As Storm stated, JABO aircraft often stay at the field and suppress takeoffs (vulch). This can possibly account for a large part of the disproportionate k/d ratio of the CHOG, the best JABO aircraft of them all.
I'm sure the actual numbers will ever be known... Too bad there isn't a stat on kills of gear-down aircraft.
Not that it matters, Storm and I have plenty enough perk points to continue JABO.
------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)
-
OK, just to dilute the perception that it is mainly Luftwaffe guys who harbor massive ill will toward the F4U1C....Thank You HTC!
------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
-
Sandman, I flew Jabo on P47s and F4U1-Ds A LOT while I was flying as Ametz. the 50 cals are far more effective to deack a field because the higher RoF with almost the same range. And those four surplus rockets helped a lot, too. I know what do I talk about.
In the Fw190A5 I fire against teh acks with the 7.92mm MGs because they have higher ROF aswell.
The 20mm is only handier when you have to straffe an hangar, because it does more damage.
But to deack a field, the Dhog is MORE useful than the Chog (because four rockets mean -at least- 2 less acks you have to straffe, and the six 50 cals are if not better, at least the equal of the quad 20mm on the Chog).
So, if you tell me that F4U1-C does the magic dance it does because it is lighter because less
hardpoints than DHog, fine. Remove one of the hardpoints and let the Hog with only one. And add the
wet wings,too.
If you tell me that F4U1-D does HAVE both hardpoints as modelled, then the FM has to have something
wrong. Because only the change of weapons/ammo doesnt explain 100fpm more and the incredible
E-retaining that the Chog shows all day long.
Methinks that a FM revision is in order.
[/b]
yes rispnort?...and the perk word is where?
I dont say I havent complained lots about the Chog FM and guns. I say that I rarely (just 20 minutes before I would've said NEVER (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) said "perk it" because its guns or FM.
Just as now I say "fix the niki" and not "perk the niki"
Again, get your facts straight please.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Just to keep a rhetoric to a small roar...
To de-ack a field, the .50 cal is actually better than the 20mm, you don't need more. Six machine guns firing at a higher rate and velocity (flatter firing arc), than four cannons, equals a greater chance at a hit (plus they disperse more). AAA at a field will die to a single hit from just about anything, even .30's.
Now true, the 20mm eats up hangers faster than anything else in the game. But if thats your point, just say so.
Stick to the facts guys, not half truths and rhetoric.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
-
I freely admit i dont like the corsair myself and to be honest the only planes i always bought as model kits as a kid was spitfires 109s p51s zeros lancasters and heinkels and this rather bias's my opinions i guess.But to claim that because(after finding out what the 190 was eally like through AH) i fly LW im for some reason sitting here gleefully rubbing my hands at what has happened to the allies favourite plane?
grow up!
listen if, like said here, the stats driven perk system is used it will work!
if your f4c is perked its usage drops right?
THEN next tour its perk price would reduce or even go to nothing.
Why dont you give it a chance?
IM deeply offended that some uniform wearing nazi is sitting at his computer laughing at my f4c and is trully upsetting me and my WW2 vet friends, unperk it unperk it!
THAT is what this roadkill sounds like. GROW UP WILL YA.
HTC decides how this game runs.They gave you the damn f4uc didnt they? so maybe they know what they're doing? let them develop their game.
i agree with them and commend them on their decision.
They will continue to receive my $30
------------------
Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-02-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Check it out. RAM first showed up for duty in TOD 1:
RAM has 105 kills and has been killed 125 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 16 kills and has been killed 39 times in the Bf 109G-10.
RAM has 70 kills and has been killed 75 times in the Spitfire Mk IX
RAM has 17 kills and has been killed 38 times in the P-51D.
RAM has 3 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Bf 109G-6.
RAM has 4 kills and has been killed 7 times in the B-26B.
RAM has 2 kills and has been killed 7 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 1 kill and has been killed 13 times in the C.205.
RAM has 59 kills and has been killed 81 times in the Fw 190A-8.
RAM has 15 kills and has been killed 17 times in the N1K2.
RAM has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the La-5FN.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 3 times in the SpitV.
RAM has 5 kills and has been killed 6 times in the P-38L.
TOD 2: (just a selection)
RAM has 43 kills and has been killed 26 times in the F4U-1C
RAM has 58 kills and has been killed 43 times in the Fw 190A-8.
RAM has 27 kills and has been killed 16 times in the SpitV.RAM has 35 kills and has been killed 23 times in the P-38L.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 40 kills and has been killed 43 times in the Bf 109G-10.
RAM has 55 kills and has been killed 41 times in the P-51D.
RAM has 65 kills and has been killed 61 times in the Spitfire Mk IX
Tour 3 (even more limited):
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 9 kills and has been killed 3 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 94 kills and has been killed 34 times in the P-51D.
RAM has 15 kills and has been killed 5 times in the Typhoon IB.
RAM has 37 kills and has been killed 19 times in the Fw 190A-8.
Tour 4:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C.
Tour 5:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 126 kills and has been killed 73 times in the fw190A-5.
Tour 6:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 1 kill and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 79 kills and has been killed 51 times in the fw190A-5.
Tour 7:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 150 kills and has been killed 52 times in the fw190A-5.
Tour 8:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 3 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 6 kills and has been killed 2 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 55 kills and has been killed 25 times in the fw190A-5.
Tour 9:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 3 kills and has been killed 3 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 23 kills and has been killed 14 times in the fw190A-5.
RAM has 12 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-8.
RAM has 27 kills and has been killed 12 times in the Bf 109G-10.
Tour 10 (last tour on record for RAM):
RAM has 3 kills and has been killed 2 times in the F4U-1D.
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C.
RAM has 8 kills and has been killed 5 times in the fw190A-5.
K/D in the D-hog for RAM: 5/12
K/D in the C-how : 167/161
Analysis:
RAM always had a love for four-cannon planes. As a fresh newbie, he learned his craft from the Cannon Hawg. Once he was able to kill, he left his first love for more mature cannon-birds. Yet, one aircraft he was never able to figure out was the D-hog. Perhaps because of an inborn love for cannons, he didn't seem at ease with the F4U-1D's six machine guns. Not feeling proficient with it, he left it in the hangar. As an ace, when he wanted to relive the love of his youth, he usually went to the C-hawg.
That being said, WTFG HTC on perking the chawg!
-
Not gunna comment on the perking of the Chog.
My Fav plane for Jabo is my 1D. On a good day I can take down the ack on a small field by myself. I can take a vfield capture and all by myself. On a bad day I can take down 3-4 acks in my 1D. Against armour the .50s don't work so well but acks are not a problem. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
S!
Rocket
-
6 x .50 or 8 x .50 works perfectly well killing acks. Not that much noticeable difference in time needed as long as you're on target.
I think a lot of people never de-acked with anything but the CHog and somehow bought the idea you had to have cannons to do it.
-
Originally posted by Dinger:
Analysis:
RAM always had a love for four-cannon planes. As a fresh newbie, he learned his craft from the Cannon Hawg. Once he was able to kill, he left his first love for more mature cannon-birds. Yet, one aircraft he was never able to figure out was the D-hog. Perhaps because of an inborn love for cannons, he didn't seem at ease with the F4U-1D's six machine guns. Not feeling proficient with it, he left it in the hangar. As an ace, when he wanted to relive the love of his youth, he usually went to the C-hawg.
ROFLMAO!!! LOL dinger, needed that laugh ,damnit :D
Ok, I suggest you to try to keep my track from January (when I was back as Ametz) until now (Asts). Particularry the part as Ametz.
Ok I'm going to tell you a little tale. I will start telling you that when I came here I had no rudder pedals. The day I got them (in the middle of TOD 3) I got rid of the Chog...forever. Same as with the spit. REasons?...I found that the most EASY planes to fly were the Chog and the Spit. The most difficult was the 109 (with the torque of the old FM, with no rudder the 109 was a nightmare).
(BTW, look at my stats from TOD 1 to 3...hehe and note how good I was as a newbie in the Chog :p <Tongue in cheek>)
now I will tell you another little secret. My favorite weapon is the american M2 .50 cal. I have ALWAYS stated that the Mausers, downright, simply sux. But I'm not the one to blame forthe fact that the Fw190, my favorite plane, was armed with Mauser 20mms, and not with 50 cals. or is it? :D
I simply LOVE the 50 cals. Low dispersion, ultra-flat trajectory, high speed of the bullets, and amazing Rate of fire. It may not have the 20mm MG151 punch, but for sure I can put three times the number of bullets on target with a 50 cal-armed plane than with a Mauser armed one.
I started flying the 190 and I got killed all the time as I always tried to turn with it. Then I changed to the Dhog, and when I noticed that the Chog had WAY more punch I flew with the Chog. Why? because with teh 190, my favorite plane, I could not kill a fly :D.
That, until Ripsnort took me for a ride as his wingie in an 190A8. I got 4 kills on that sortie (will never forget it :D and I'm sure Rip will also remember it).
From then onwards I pressed on flying the A8 over the Chog. I flew it in both 4x20mm and 2x20mm configurations. Admittedly more with the four cannon set, because the plane needed that punch for the few snapshots I could get in it.
Then on TOD 3 I got my rudder pedals and I dedicated the WHOLE second half of the tour to fly P51Ds. As you might note it I got a 3-1 Kill-Death Ratio, in my 3rd tour here. Not bad for a plane wich had 6x50 BEFORE the 50 cal powerup and BEFORE the bullet dispersion fix. I felt in love with the weapon set, but I got bored of the plane (hehe I remember those memorable 2vs1,Bikekila and Asmodan vs me...they in spits runnin after me until I could zoom to reverse :D) so I returned with the Fw190A8.
Then the 190A5 came to AH. In 1.03 FM, Dinger, I flew it wit TWO cannon only. Take a look in the BBS and you'll find that I ALWAYS adviced to fly it with 2 cannons. Strange for someone who loves to fly with four, right? :D
When the 1.04FM came, I resorted for the four cannons. Because the fastest, turning, new fights were way way more difficult to end with a steady burst. I needed again all the firepower I could gather. So I went 4 cannon again.
Dinger,BTW you have NOT shown the 109 kills I have with the 1.03FM (when I most used this plane). I **ALWAYS** fly the 109G10 CLEAN, with no wing gondolas and mostly with 20mm hub cannon. I flew the 109 with 30mm only for ONE TOUR (the last one before 1.04). I think that the 109 is the second plane I've most used, mostly in its G10 variant, after the 190 series. Also, please include the P51 to that study because in the last days of the 1.03FM I flew it intensively aswell.
And over all you have NOT recorded my kills as Ametz and Asts, mostly with the first, when I flew Dhogs, P47s, P51s, etc way more than 190s and 109s.
In short, your "investigation" has been very funny...but couldnt be more wrong :D
P.S. Please I'll take 4 50 cals over the 2x20mm and 2x13mm for the dora, anyday, anytime. and 6x50 cals for the Fw190A8, please :D
-
oh hmmmmmmm >>sips drink moves on
------------------
DRILL
-
What's in the cup? And do ya got another?
Reading all these C-HOG/Perk/whines threads is thirsty work.
-
I think HTC made a good move, considering the number of perk points required. I'd like to have seen the value up a bit higher, not because of the plane or it's guns but simply because of the sheer number's of Chogs running around. It doesn't seem to be consistent, but the last few days of the last tour I got REALLY fed up with Chogs. Hey, good plane, I fly it occasionally but to be honest, it's nice to see (more) other aircraft.
Swamp
-
Check it out. RAM first showed up for duty in TOD 1:
RAM has 105 kills and has been killed 125 times in the F4U-1C.
Oooohhhhhhhhhh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I'm preparing the barbecue...LOTS of potatoes to peel for YOU ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Saw
-
Huh?...I thought you had to clean some latrines before raising your head around here?. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW those planes were used before I ever joined JG-2 (thing I think I did already in TOD2)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
-
Sandman, I flew Jabo on P47s and F4U1-Ds A LOT while I was flying as Ametz. the 50 cals are far more effective to deack a field because the higher RoF with almost the same range. And those four surplus rockets helped a lot, too. I know what do I talk about.
Roger that... maybe my expectation of lower effectiveness with the DHOG affected the way I fly it. Will have to give it some more effort in the future. FWIW, i'm absolutely lousy with rockets... haven't quite figured it out yet.
cheers,
sand
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Roger that... maybe my expectation of lower effectiveness with the DHOG affected the way I fly it. Will have to give it some more effort in the future. FWIW, i'm absolutely lousy with rockets... haven't quite figured it out yet.
cheers,
sand
I have a training film using rockets, see the Help and Training forum. Also, a good gunsite with Rocket and Bomb tic's on it helps too.
-
Numbers, numbers, numbers. If you numbers guys are for perking the popular planes, then get your pen & paper ready for your next hunt. Go look at the stats as of 13:30 EDT. N1k has almost 600 kills. I didn't spend alot of time looking but it was almost double that of anything else. LMAO.
Like I have said all along, we are just moving them to next airframe. There is always an "uber" bird.
-
Originally posted by hazed-:
THAT is what this roadkill sounds like. GROW UP WILL YA.
HTC decides how this game runs.They gave you the damn f4uc didnt they? so maybe they know what they're doing? let them develop their game.
i agree with them and commend them on their decision.
They will continue to receive my $30
Funny statement coming from one who is on the "winning" side of this decision. I wonder what would have happened if HTC would have come out and made a statement along the lines of... "We have decided to not perk the C-hog at all." Would all of the whining and crying to have it perked stop? I mean, after all, let HTC develop their game...right?
I think its hilarious now that all the CHOG whiners got "their" way that they are now asking others to stop whining about HTC's decision. What in the world makes you think that the "losers" in this decision dont have just as much right to whine about it than you did before it was made? I have said it before, it doesnt matter one way or another to me that HTC perked the C-hog. I flew it occassionally....usually just because of all the whiners screaming about it or if we had a good vulch going on somewhere, but its not gonna make me quit or anything.
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
FWIW, i'm absolutely lousy with rockets... haven't quite figured it out yet.
cheers,
sand
Quite easy. first of all, fire in salvoes of 2 rockets with minimum delay. Some people fire them one by one with amazing hit rates. I personally didnt get good results one by one.
You have to set a straight pass with a slight angle of descent. I found that to keep speed high helps too. You have to keep your plane well trimmed, mostly on the rudder axis.
Then point higher than what the gunsight marks. I always fired "at eye" between 0.5 and 1 cm higher than the gunsight crossbars, but you can use a sight to help you. There are some very good ones out there.
The moment to fire (at least what I used as a hint) is when you see the first acks firing at you. Then release the first salvo, roll and pull out. Repeat four times until you end with the 8 rockets and then start working with MGs.
This is the system I used, and I started using it with almost no clues (other than what I had read here in the BBS). I am sure that there are some dedicated jaboers out there who can tell you some more hints. but with this system I always was able to take the first 4 acks of a field with the rockets, from stand-off range.
Hope that this helped.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Originally posted by Apache:
Numbers, numbers, numbers. If you numbers guys are for perking the popular planes, then get your pen & paper ready for your next hunt. Go look at the stats as of 13:30 EDT. N1k has almost 600 kills. I didn't spend alot of time looking but it was almost double that of anything else. LMAO.
Like I have said all along, we are just moving them to next airframe. There is always an "uber" bird.
at this moment N1K2 has 650 kills or so while the Spit IX has 550 or so. now that sounds like a 2-1 difference? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I dont think so.
After those two the numbers are pretty equal. This is EXACTLY the tendence we had last TOD (Spit and Nik doubled their immediate followers # of kills),maybe with a bigger usage of the nik over the spit wich was expectable. But now there is no uberhawg doubling the number of N1K and Spit kills.
So sorry, I think that is was the pro-chog-perk crowd who was right on this issue. The N1K has some more users, the Dhog too, and the typhoon usage has seen a big jump (330 kills at this moment). And there are still some 340 kills for the Chog aswell (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
This numbers point to a much MUCH more ballanced Main arena. Not to the "Massive migration syndrome" that some people precognized
Now if the N1K FM was fixed, I would be COMPLETELY happy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Oh toejam spit drivers, look out, your next!!!!
-
Apache, just FYI the Chog averaged more than 1000 kills/day last TOD. The Niki barely surpassed the 500/day.
We have seen a 15% increase of Niki Usage, and almost none on the Spit. IN other words when this TOD ends, and IF this tendence follows (to extract conclussions from ONE day is absurd,but well, you started the number game), the Spit will have roughly the same number of kills as last TOD and the NiK roughly 15% more.
is 15% the "massive" migration the antiperk lobby said would be SO catastrophical?. LOL.
So, apache, stop this because your initial number game was wrong. Now dont start to yell that now the crowd will cry for the perking of the NiK or the Spit because this wont happen if this tendence goes on. Admit it, NOW we have a fairly BALANCED arena. Finally, after 7 months.
Is it SO hard for you to admit that HTC did the RIGHT thing in perking the damned bird?
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
well i thought there might be some inputs here other than the same defence line.
I agree D-hog can straffe ack...but the major problem at fields are ost's that are pretty hard to down with a D.Also somehow range is a factor too.I manage to down acks from further range with the 20mm.That gives me a precious second more to avoid em.I seldom use rockets because of the straight approach line that has to be flown to get hits.Makes me more vulnerable IMO.Also maybe i have to learn that better.Does anyone here down acks out of the ack range with rocks?
Some give the option to fly the spit.Now if we would see like the same numbers of spits as we saw f4's then the whining would just
shift target.It seems more to me that every community needs to have it's black sheep.If that is the issue i can accept that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
People say that to lear ACM to try the spit.I think the F4 is quite capable too if well flown and pretty different to the spit as it cannot turn as well.So the only difference are the 20mm's.These will only come into the equation if you let the plane get adv and get on your 6 or let him have a snapshot solution.If you dive into a furball than any 20mm of any plane is a danger.I'm referring just to a normal alt engagement.
I like the d-hog a lot too and this no defence for the F4c...i would defend any plane that would get massacred like this even if it would be a LW or whatever..and i defend it even more because i know the plane pretty well as you can see through my stats.
also this is no critic to HTC.I have no idea if they are perking the plane because of the constant whining or because they are testing a different approach to the whole perk system,as the perk points are so low.I really dig the game and the daily $1 is well
spent on this fantastic hobby.WTG HTC!
I had no comments on that idea about perking all planes and the cost being rated by the rank of each player in the individual class.
Was it such a bad one? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
cheers
-
Originally posted by storm:
I agree D-hog can straffe ack...but the major problem at fields are ost's that are pretty hard to down with a D.Also somehow range is a factor too.I manage to down acks from further range with the 20mm.That gives me a precious second more to avoid em.I seldom use rockets because of the straight approach line that has to be flown to get hits.Makes me more vulnerable IMO.Also maybe i have to learn that better.Does anyone here down acks out of the ack range with rocks?
About the osties, HTC said the hit modelling for the Ground vehicles has been revised for 1.07. I would think that this includes the open top of the ostwind, so ANY caliber, from 7.92mm to 30mm can kill the gun with no problem. If not, then there is always the chance to perk the ostie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) A vehicle with a production run that IIRC never reached the number 40 that has such a big influence on the gameplay is just like I disliked on the Chog.
Regarding range, I think that the 50 cals have LONGER range than the hispano. True that I've not flown an hispano-fitted plane since a long time ago, but anyway if the range is not bigger at least should be equal.
I stand on my opinion that the Dhog is FAR better ack supressing plane than the Chog. Not to kill hangars, but for that you have bombers, right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
About the rockets...the straight aproach makes you vulnerable...to what?. To acks?...not because you stay OUT of ack cover, the Rockets are a wonderful STANDOFF anti-ack weapon. You fire them BEFORE entering the field's ack cover.
Then vulnerable to what? To enemy fighters?...well will you try to deack with cannons a field with acks operational (of course, if they are not operational you wouldnt be supressing acks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) and with an enemy fighter on your six?...sorry,but your argument makes no sense to me.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Thanx R4M and Ripsnort for the input... BTW, Rip... EXCELLENT site (http://ripsnort60.tripod.com/Aces_High_Training_Films.html)! Thank you!
-
ok i see i dont make sense....i'll withdraw from the discussion
you guys are by far better informed than me
i'm just a lousy dweeb
-
Ram, just wait. I've been at this alot longer than you my friend. I've seen it over and over. I will have some numbers for you in the future, since you are a numbers guy and all. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
FW-190A8 with twin 30mm's is actually a better de-acking plane than the chawg.
-
Originally posted by storm:
ok i see i dont make sense....i'll withdraw from the discussion
you guys are by far better informed than me
i'm just a lousy dweeb
hey storm! dont take my posts as an offense because are not intended to be. It is that is really incredible to see the enormous effect that the (extremely cheap) perking of the Chog have had when the plane is still there, and there is a wonderful twin on the hangar! with six 50 cals, yes, but those weapons are very good too! Give them a try!!!
And BTW never be ashamed when you find that you could be not right on something. You thought that the Dhog was not that good for field ack supression, and you just saw that indeed it can be an useful weapon. That is good, right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Believe me, being used to fire Mausers, the 50 cals seems like Star Wars lasers! fast, accurate and very very brilliant (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Apache, I'm the first to say that extract conclussions from the numbers of ONE day is not clever because the tendence and usage of planes may vary a lot during this tour. But I was not the one who brought numbers up, it was you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I was just answering your statement on that regard, that for the 1st day, the numbers are pretty pretty good.
-
I use the C-Hog for ground attack alot. I still will in the future. Perking the C-Hog should have been delayed untill the new GV damage model was implemented IMO.
------------------
Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure
-
You all miss the REAL tragedy of the "Perk Chog" syndrome.
Those bi-blue horrid planes will be butchered, yet still we have to listen to r4m, ram, rametz, ramasts ect...like he is going to quit for the 14th time if we dont listen to his....whatever..
I like it perked, YET Id rather someone squeakslap r4metast into not being such a little studmuffin. Yah, period.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Hell with it Never Mind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jebo44 (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
I don't use perk points and am at best a mediocre pilot but let me get this staight... planes will be perked on their popularity rather than their ability? The friggin D9 has a much better K/D than the CHog but like all LW planes it is so boring and easy to fly that no one bothers. So this is to punish us for not flying the boring planes?
even with my mediocre skills tho... I could fly the CHog every sortie for the rest of my sim career and I would be flying it against newbies and unskilled. how the hell is that fair?
LW and buffers are pleased. figure it out.
lazs
-
Originally posted by R4M:
Ok I'm going to tell you a little tale. I will start telling you that when I came here I had no rudder pedals. The day I got them (in the middle of TOD 3) I got rid of the Chog...forever.
Got rid of it forever? BS...look at tour 5,6,8,9. Looks like u did fly chog..just not that often.
[This message has been edited by BigGun (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Storm, first off, Ram is so full of roadkill, if you met him, I would imagine you'd have to wear a gas mask.
Secondly, the Chog is one of the premiere ATG weapons platform, and due to the fact that folks try to defend an airfield while it is being used, they subsequently 'get in the way' of the cannons, thus skewing the numbers.
<S> Storm, the perk doesn't affect pilots like you or I...it only affects the new flyers.
-
Originally posted by BigGun:
Got rid of it forever? BS...look at tour 5,6,8,9. Looks like u did fly chog..just not that often.
Naturally. I, as everyone else, used to fly antitank sorties with the antitank lasers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Ripsnort, That phrase coming from the one who blamed me on the desintegration of JG2 in the way you did (intentionally, falsely, cowardly, in an open forum, and intentionally "forgetting" that I had left Jg2 almost 2 weeks before anyone else left, and that ALL your initial squad members were directly taken from JG2 ranks...maybe you blamed me in an open forum to "clean" your conscience, right?) , should have the proper answer. I think that with you I should not only wear a gas mask, but protective clothes. Just in case your corrosive emanations touch me. If I am full of BS I dont know wtf are you full of, but be sure that it is worse than acid scum.
That's it, out of this thread before this turns REALLY ugly. I reserve the rest for private email, because this doesnt own here.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Ouch ram, kinda tasteless bringing that here, don't you think? What's that JG2 stuff got to do with this discussion?
-
Ram stated: ALL your initial squad members were directly taken from JG2 ranks.
BS. Comanche & I came from the Blue Knights, numb nuts.
[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 05-02-2001).]
-
Originally posted by storm:
The only reason i die is because i did a stupid move or thought i'm Mr.Rambo and try to win a 5v1 or thought that i could get away with a quick sliding HO,not because my opponent is flyin a laser mounted star wars
space fighter flying on train rails.
That's exactly why the C-hog needed to be perked. It's because people would fly it hoping to win based on it's uber cannon killing ability.
For me, it's pretty dumb to fly into a no-win fight just to se if I can shoot one guy down before the rest shoot me. I prefer to pick my targets, kill them and get out safely. Landing is so much more fun than riding the silk elevator
------------------
Midnight CO
412th FG "Braunco Mustangs"[/i]
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidl@splusnet.com
"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone
-
Secondly, the Chog is one of the premiere ATG weapons platform, and due to the fact that folks try to defend an airfield while it is being used, they subsequently 'get in the way' of the cannons, thus skewing the numbers.
Skewing the numbers in a 1000 kills per day way? Or are you referring to the style of playing used by GTR and her buddies - i.e park a cv close to field, then vulch vulch vulch?
ANY plane, even a c202, can do effective vulching. The more ammo, the better. The chog is a good jabo because of the fuikked up damage model on the ostie, meaning the hisps rips osties and panzers to shreds with half second bursts. Other than that, it's not as good as the P-47 for jabos. Better than the best the VVS (nothing), LW or japanese forces have, admittedly, but only a wonderweapon because of bugged guns or damage model.
I distinctly recall you on this board making anti chog comments. Of course, that was BEFORE you stared the new F4U-D(C) oriented squad. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
<S> Storm, the perk doesn't affect pilots like you or I...it only affects the new flyers.
Yeah, it forces them to actually learn to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Personally, I am convinced that the N1K and chog is HTC's way of introducing EZ mode to AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
-
OKAY! THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is GTR really a chick? I keep seeing Santa refer to GTR as "her".
If GTR is not a chick... careful who you call a chick you LeatherWearing LimpWristed LispWaffle, Santa!!!
-SW
-
Just some notes for the newbies reading this thread. If you want to learn ACM, never, never, never fly Nikkis, Spits or Zekes. These planes create the worst habits for any pilot. Better start with P51D, P47, P38, 109F or even F6F5.
If you want to jabo and deack, fly P47D30 with 8x50, rockets and 2000 lb bombs.
And a final note for the newbies. Learn to enjoy a single hard earned kill better than 10 easy kills.
-
dropped by because wanna rebate this afirmation.
Originally posted by Apache:
Ram stated: ALL your initial squad members were directly taken from JG2 ranks.
BS. Comanche & I came from the Blue Knights, numb nuts.
I dont know where did you go AFTER I left JG2. But for the time I got out of the JG2 Squadron, both Comanche and you were part of it.
If later you went to the Blue knights, I dont know because I didnt notice (I had moved to bishops after I left JG2). But you were in JG2 when Ripsnort was CO, and when he founded VMF323, you two were there as founders.
So, it is not BS.What I said is true.
Originally posted by hblair:
Ouch ram, kinda tasteless bringing that here, don't you think? What's that JG2 stuff got to do with this discussion?
Hblair, I didnt started this fire.Neither now, nor the time when he acused me in an 0pen forum on the JG2 disintengration. --He-- brought the topic up when it has nothing to do with what we were discussing at that time. HE was the first one to vent this crap in an open channel. Of course, he could not do that in private because what he accused me was BS. plain and simple.
So, as you see, I'm not the one starting fires.I've almost always kept a very respectful attitude towards ripsnort, even though when he almost never shows it towards me. But while I dont mind the latter, I WONT tolerate him saying the kind of things he just posted avobe.
Take a look at his post. I wont tolerate such a jerk to use me as his personal toilet paper to clean on me the crap wich emanates from him. He did it that once on me when he FALSELY accused me on an open forum of the JG2 disintegration, and then he also got the proper answer from me.
I also posted the answer to just remind him WHO is full of BS here.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-03-2001).]