Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: paulieb on December 16, 2002, 07:24:03 PM
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I'm not kidding, folks... the Stuka turns VERY well, and is more than capable of turning well inside a Spit9.. haven't tried the SpitV against one yet. This very afternoon, I was 1 v 1 in my Spit against a Stuka, and I went bingo ammo before I could get him down. You just can't saddle up on one because of how well they turn when slow. Forget about scissoring with him, he can stay behind you easily. The only thing I found that worked was deliberately getting even with him in a scissors fight and taking snapshots at the cross point. Even then, it seems to be well armored enough that the hispanos couldn't get it done... once they were empty the 303s were completely useless. My advice is simply this; DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE STUKA IN A ONE ON ONE ENGAGEMENT.
Oh, for those who are curious, yes, I did make it home, but only after asking two nearby allies to clear my 6. How emabarrassing... outflown by a dive bomber... :(
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A Zero can outturn a Spit, so what? Not all air combat is turning, and I heard from a very reliable source that the Stuka is not very fast.
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paulie, in case I wasn't clear before,you can try diving attacks while pulling lead (a spiral, so the Spit doesn't stall that quickly cause it gains speed in the dive), or simply hit and 'extend' attacks, taking advantage of the Spits higher speed.
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Udet, I understand that against some planes (like the Stuka) it's necessary to fly the Spit as a B n Z plane. It just feels VERY unnatural to me to use a Spit in this way.Guess I'll just have to get used to it.
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I always fly the Spit IX as a BnZ fighter.
The Spit V can be used this way as well.
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Rudel got a good number of what we would call manouver kills in his Stuka by causing commie fighters to stall and crash in a dogfight.
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Stuka could horse around enough to make a Spit sweat, - but that was about it. It won't go vertical, and does not accelerate too well, so for a tight turning and fast climbing spit its just a meal.
Anyway, its not well armed..
Il-2 is a much more dangerous opponent.
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If you went Bingo Ammo trying to kill a Stuka you got bigger problems than how well it handels m8t.
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The Ju 87D-3 has 221 kills and has been killed 761 times.
The Ju 87D-3 has 8 kills and has been killed 68 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.
The Ju 87D-3 has 6 kills and has been killed 32 times against the Spitfire V.
Questions? ...I didn't think so....
:D
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Only a novice would get shot by the front guns of a Stuka while flying a Spitfire fighter that is easily 30-70 mph faster depending on alt.
Turns good? who cares. Should the F4U-4 fear the A6M2 then?
Cripes. What the MA teaches these days.
Next time there is a Snapshot with the LW and Stuka vs RAF fighters, pls show us all the great moves lol, we will see who rtbs at the end of the mission.
Later.
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You would have died to paulieb but ack popped up and took out 1 of my mgs. I had already killed an la7 and 2 fps deacked half the field and was rtbn.
The la7 I killed came back in a yak and after a few ho attempts got me as my eng quit.
Stuka Powah !!!!
EDIT
Just read the other posts.
He tried it all tnb, bnz, ho and go, twitch n squeak but his only mistake was not leaving. I pinged numerous times but only had my left mg. The stuka turns awesome and as long as you aint gangbanged you can avoid about any pass.
:D
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When the Stuka gets cannons and dares to HO, well, we might see something like this:
The Il-2 has 12 kills and has been killed 25 times against the P-38L.
not so bad. Now something slow that turns well and has cannons, is always MEAN...
Such as:
The Hurricane IIC has 3692 kills and has been killed 2733 times.
so....hmm.
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the hurr IIc kills more gvs then anything those stats mean nothing.
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You dweebs, you already have a good turning plane with a big gun :p
turbot has 6 kills and has been killed 5 times in the Hurricane IID.
Take that! :)
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Wotan was the same way in the Ju88, I you fly external you can avoid alot of fire.
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scru that, big guns and good turning don't make too good a combination cause the deflection needed is enormous.
My weapon of choice lately: G-10 with 30mm cannon. It's outturned by anything except maybe the tempest and 262, but it's pretty fast, climbs and dives well, and, most importantly, nobody calls you a dweeb if you fly it :P
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Would you ever takeoff in the G10 from a vulched field?
Naaa
Upping would be Zekes, Hurries, nikis and la-7's mostly
Now again, something hizooka armed that can out-turn a spit is always mean. You respect it.
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Originally posted by Wotan
He tried it all tnb, bnz, ho and go, twitch n squeak but his only mistake was not leaving. I pinged numerous times but only had my left mg. The stuka turns awesome and as long as you aint gangbanged you can avoid about any pass.
:D
Thanks Wotan... I think. Even though I don't have a 1:1 K/D yet, I like to think I'm getting pretty darned good in the Spit. I just could not believe that I was getting left in a turn by a dive bomber. Heck I even tried popping flaps in the turn to get lead on you.
Basically, there were two things going on here. 1. Wotan, IMO, is a pretty good stick and knew how to avoid me in the Spit., and 2. I'm too bloody stubborn to leave until my ammo counter hits zero. By then, of course, its usually too late. Wotan!!
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just for the record: I hate La7s, they are much too good.
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heck, if ya wanna have dive bomber vs. fighter fun, try an SBD.
it's a much better turn fighter than a stuka, and has 2x nose mounted .50's.
i've tore up a few dweebs that wanted to T&B with me, till they got smart, a bud showed up, or i ran out of ammo.
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Val turns very well too, better than the SBD and I think it's also faster...you guys should try a dive-bomber fighting contest in a H2H arena
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My post was in jest paulied S! mate you could ran but my slow speed and those damn trees gave me an advatage by allowing quick break turns. As 125 mph and manuvering its had to get a tracking shot.
I meant no disrespect.
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everyone thinks that the zero and spit are the best turners...i LAUGH IN THERE FACE...hurricane mk 1 outturns everything and mark 2 outturns any spit above 5
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Vorticon, so what? if you still think that air combat involves only turning, you are an easy kill in any plane ;) ;)
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A6m2 outturns HurryI
A6m5 does so too, but only by a margin
Hurry I outturns all spits, and I think Hurry IIC marginally outturns the Spit V
but its not all about turning.
Did you notice btw, how well the Stuka rolls!
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Originally posted by Angus
A6m2 outturns HurryI
That's not my experience. A6m2 can gain alt during the turn, and the hurri can't, but otherwise the hurri is going to get around on the zeke's tail after three or four turns.
- oldman
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Tried all hurrys extensively in the TA against a good pilot in an a6m2 and a6m5. Result: Zeke turns better.
However the difference is very little, and I bet that a lightly fuelled HurryI vs a full A6m would out-turn it.
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even the jug can get a spit, if it has a experienced pilot (like me)
it's very capable of taking a spit (with speed and everything)
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Originally posted by paulieb
I'm not kidding, folks... the Stuka turns VERY well, and is more than capable of turning well inside a Spit9.. haven't tried the SpitV against one yet. This very afternoon, I was 1 v 1 in my Spit against a Stuka, and I went bingo ammo before I could get him down. You just can't saddle up on one because of how well they turn when slow. Forget about scissoring with him, he can stay behind you easily. The only thing I found that worked was deliberately getting even with him in a scissors fight and taking snapshots at the cross point. Even then, it seems to be well armored enough that the hispanos couldn't get it done... once they were empty the 303s were completely useless. My advice is simply this; DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE STUKA IN A ONE ON ONE ENGAGEMENT.
Oh, for those who are curious, yes, I did make it home, but only after asking two nearby allies to clear my 6. How emabarrassing... outflown by a dive bomber... :(
Now stop it! Tonight, I shot down 2 Stukas (and three other fighters) furballing in a Boston Mk.III.
Yeah, the Ju 87 turns reasonably well, but not as good as the SBD or Val. Stukas have no chance against a medium bomber armed with .303 mgs. Spitfire Mk.IXs will kill 'em by the gross. The Spitfire Mk.IX is one of the best E fighters in the game, yet it seems the vast majority just use it for stallfighting... Fly it like that and any of the following can and often will kill you.
FM-2
F4F-4
A6M2
A6M5b
Hurricane (pick one)
SBD
D3A1
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by udet
scru that, big guns and good turning don't make too good a combination cause the deflection needed is enormous.
My weapon of choice lately: G-10 with 30mm cannon. It's outturned by anything except maybe the tempest and 262, but it's pretty fast, climbs and dives well, and, most importantly, nobody calls you a dweeb if you fly it :P
udet you DWEEB:D Fly a real plane like the F4U-C:D
Booky
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Originally posted by Wotan
You would have died to paulieb but ack popped up and took out 1 of my mgs. I had already killed an la7 and 2 fps deacked half the field and was rtbn.
The la7 I killed came back in a yak and after a few ho attempts got me as my eng quit.
Stuka Powah !!!!
EDIT
Just read the other posts.
He tried it all tnb, bnz, ho and go, twitch n squeak but his only mistake was not leaving. I pinged numerous times but only had my left mg. The stuka turns awesome and as long as you aint gangbanged you can avoid about any pass.
:D
Hehe...too bad HTC didnt give you Ju87D-5 with its two 2cm MG151s.
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SPIT does not have the best E for turning.
THE SOPWITH CAMEL DOES!!! moahahahaa