Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: KG45 on December 18, 2002, 11:45:14 AM
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loaded a stuka up, and watch the gooneys pass ya on the left on thier way capture the base you're try to kill....:eek:
if i fly the stuka much, i'm gonna have to take up smoking again...
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Yah, but there is no feeling like taking out a spitfire with those twin 7.92 mm guns in the back.:D
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twin guns (only .30s), good field of fire to the rear, tons of ammo, and doesn't seem to have much of the arc interuppted by the rudder.
i would think a well flown stuka with a gunner could give a fighter a big headache.
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first time I tried stuka...I got HO'd cause the dweeb couldn't out turn me in his la5:D
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a 109g2 tried to turnfight me... I pinged it with about 500 rnds of MG.. it finally just crashed into the ground. Was a wonderful fight.
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I haven't played AH since the update, but from what I read about the Battle of Britain, the Stuka was quite vulnerable to fighters. I guess real life British pilots didn't try to turn with it :)
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took off in one w/ the 4k bomb from an 11k field in AKDesert and hit the nearest field. I managed to climb to 14k before getting there. Droped the bomb, killed a BH and when I leveled I had only lost 2k in alt. Flew straight back to my starting base and the round trip took 30mins.
She's slow but man, what a stable divebombing platform, it's sweet ;)
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Originally posted by udet
I haven't played AH since the update, but from what I read about the Battle of Britain, the Stuka was quite vulnerable to fighters. I guess real life British pilots didn't try to turn with it :)
You should read the complaints over in the WWIIOL forum...you have a bunch of guys who've read the Stuka was a sitting duck to the Hurricane and Spitfire and they promptly try to TURN with the Stuka, get shot down, and they begin whining.
In the Battle of Britain:
1) The RAF pilots did not try to turn with the Stukas - they boom and zoomed the Stuka formations
2) The Stukas didn't scatter and dogfight with the Hurricanes and Spitfires - they attempted to hold formation and let the massed gunfire of their rear guns ward off the RAF attacks.
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I think the WW2OL thing was that the stukas were fully loaded and could still turn fight
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That was part of it - unfortunately, the WWIIOL FM doesn't account for the drag and weight incurred by external ordinance.
However, people still complain about Stukas dropping their ordinance (which moots the issue of the drag/weight of their bombs) and then pwning Hurricanes and Hawk 75s in turn fights.
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Early on the drag of the weapons wasn't modeled. It is now, I assume the weight is modeled cause they do fly differently when you dump ord. Being slow they do have a tight turning radius and if you want to dog one, have at it. I need the rank:D Who was that stuka ace that shoot down lots of fighters?
HC
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Rudel - but I believe a lot of the planes he shot down were actually downed after he had converted to the 190.
However, with that being said, I believe Rudel in some instances attemped to engage IL-2's with his cannon armed Ju-87G. And the a/c responsible for the first LW kill of the war was a Ju-87 during the Battle of Poland.
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The only problem I"ve had is that you try to go bomb a base and it's captured before you even get there :D
other than that it's a blast!!
really wish it had the siren tho. :(
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Originally posted by udet
I haven't played AH since the update, but from what I read about the Battle of Britain, the Stuka was quite vulnerable to fighters. I guess real life British pilots didn't try to turn with it :)
Our Stuka is up-armored compared to the BoB Stukas.
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Watch out for bird strikes from the rear.
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"Watch out for bird strikes from the rear."
What do you think the tailgun is for? :D
J_A_B
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Originally posted by zarkov
Rudel - but I believe a lot of the planes he shot down were actually downed after he had converted to the 190.
However, with that being said, I believe Rudel in some instances attemped to engage IL-2's with his cannon armed Ju-87G. And the a/c responsible for the first LW kill of the war was a Ju-87 during the Battle of Poland.
Rudel flew actually very few missions in the 190F8 before going back to the Stuka. And either way, the man killed over 4800 Soviet Tanks, with it, I should think it would be best to stay in a working platform...
Can't wait to see the 37mm equipped Stuka arrive!!!!
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He didn't kill anywhere near that many tanks. I think he killed 519 tanks, but I might be wrong.
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Originally posted by KG45
loaded a stuka up, and watch the gooneys pass ya on the left on thier way capture the base you're try to kill....:eek:
It's surprisingly maneuverable and I think it takes a lot by surprise to see it able to turn and stall fight so well. Last night I primarily flew the Stuka all night long and racked up over 20+ kills in it through the course of the night. Even managed to down a flight of B-26's in it but it took the entire 2000 rounds to do it and I had to aim for the engines and wing tips. Unfortunately the wing mounted 7.95mm guns amount to no more than spit wads and you've got to pump a lot of ammo into planes to take them down. But for the sure joy of stall fighting, the Stuka is great.
Ack-Ack
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Why is anyone surprised at the slow speed of the Ju87? You don't expect it to be fast, do you?! Good grief, if you want slow, try WW1 planes or inter-war airliners. (Or the Storch from WW2, for that matter, which, with a light headwind, could be landed almost vertically from quite a way up). (Aye, that entails finding a sim with them in, off y'go! )
As for the vulnerability of Ju87s, trust me, they are very vulnerable in AH. Myself and a squaddie took a pair of em up in the CT last night. High or low, if the Yaks spotted us, they got us - because they werent daft enough to try to turnfight with us.
Hmmnn.. now we have 109Es and Ju87s in the game, we could do a "what if...?" game about "what if the Kriegsmarine built their planned aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin?" That would have had 109T's and Ju87T's (modified 109Es and Ju87s (I dont recall which marque of Ju87) suitable for CV operation)...
Esme
PS; just did some tests - Ju87 (max loaded) maximum sustained spped near sea-level about 225mph, ditto for C47 about 200mph (as modelled in AH. Havent checked RL speeds).
Forget to raise your flaps or summat? :-}
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The Soviet fighter ace Polkovnik (Colonel) Lev Shestakov became legendary already during his lifetime. After the war, Vladimir Lavrinenkov (twice appointed Hero of the Soviet Union, credited with 35 + 11 kills), wrote a book - His Call code - Sokol (Falcon) 1 - about Shestakov.
Having drawn his first blood as a fighter pilot in the Spanish Civil War, Lev Shestakov flew in defense of Odessa as commander of 69 IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment) in the first months of the Russo-German war.
The losses dealt to the Romanian Air Force above Odessa in 1941 by Shestakov's fighter pilots compelled the Romanian High Command to withdraw its entire air force from the Eastern Front.
A few months later, no less than twelve pilots of 69 IAP were awarded as Heroes of the Soviet Union. 69 IAP was adopted a guard's unit as 9 GIAP. During the Battle of Stalingrad, 9 GIAP became the first real "ace unit" when some of the most successful Soviet fighter aces of that time were posted to 9 GIAP.
Lev Shestakov eventually carried out more than 200 missions during the war, took part in 32 aerial combats and was credited with 26 kills before being killed in action in March 1944.
According to Lavrinenkov's book, Lev Shestakov fought a private war with a well-known German Stuka ace - a Kurt Renner, who was awarded the "Golden Knight's Cross".
No such Stuka ace existed, but the famous Stuka flyer Hans-Ulrich Rudel - who served in the same operational area as did Shestakov - was the only person to be awarded the Knight's Cross with the Golden Oak Leaves.
Interestingly, Lavrinenkov, who joined Shestakov's 9 GIAP in the fall of 1942, describes how he once met Rennerí on the ground. On August 23, 1943, Lavrinenkov's Airacobra was hit by debris from a FW 189 that he had shot down. Lavrinenkov bailed out over enemy-held territory and was captured by the Germans. He was brought to the Stalino airfield, where he claims to have been introduced to "Renner". According to Lavrinenkov, "Renner" had thought that the Soviet POW was Shestakov, because he had flown the Airacobra with call-code 01, indicating that it was the unit commander's aircraft. Later, Lavrinenkov managed to escape from a POW transport due to Germany, joined a partisan detachment and eventually managed to make it back to the regular Soviet troops, where he re-joined 9 GIAP and took up combat flights again.
During this time, Hauptmann Hans-Ulrich Rudel (appointed commander of III./St.G. 2 Immelmann in September 1943) was stationed in Stalino.
During the first months of 1944, Lev Shestakov was hunting a Ju 87 "with a viper painted along its fuselage sides" - assuming that this conspicuos aircraft was flown by "Renner". Major Rudel certainly flew a Ju 87 G - one of the few Ju 87s still active in 1944 - over the same battlefields as Shestakov during this time. Due to his considerable successes against Soviet tanks, Rudel was a highly coveted prey among the Soviet fighter pilots - as confirmed in Rudel's autobiography. Until March 1944, Rudel was credited with the destruction of more than 200 Soviet tanks and was awarded with the Diamonds to his Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords.
According to the Soviet version, on March 13, 1944, Lev Shestakov finally caught the Ju 87 he had been hunting for so long. Hit by a burst from Shestakov's La-5FN from short distance, the Ju 87 exploded in mid-air. But Shestakov didn't live to celebrate his victory. According to the Soviet report, his Lavochkin was thrown into a spin from the explosion and the famous ace fell toward his death.
In reality, Rudel survived the war. No other famous Stuka ace was killed on March 13, 1944, nor is it known that Rudel ever flew a Ju 87 with a viper painted on its fuselage side (although he used a Ju 87 with a chevron and two horizontal bars painted on the fuselage side, which was quite unsusual in the Stuka units).
It is quite possible that the Soviet account is an attempt to add glory to the event when one of the highest esteemed fighter pilots was killed in a fight with a single Ju 87.
In his autobiography, Hans-Ulrich Rudel recalls how his Ju 87 once came under attack from an excellent La-5 pilot:
"I just can't understand how he manages to follow my sharp turns in his fighter aircraft," wrote Rudel. Rudel started preparing himself for the final end, as he suddenly heard his rear-gunner, Stabsarzt Ernst Gadermann, cry over the R/T: "Got the Lag!" Rudel continues: "Was he shot down by Gadermann, or did he go down because of the backwash from my engine during these tight turns? It doesn't matter. My headphones suddenly exploded in confused screams from the Russian radio; the Russians have observed what happened and something special seems to have happened... From the Russian radio-messages, we discover that this was a very famous Soviet fighter pilot, more than once appointed as Hero of the Soviet Union."
Christer Bergström, Andrey Mikhailov 2000
From Here
http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/lev.html
http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/index.htm
Rudel logged 2,530 combat missions, and was granted almost no leave throughout his four years of active duty. Unlike his Allied counterparts, there was no magical number of missions which would mean a furlough home, once attained. For Rudel, as well as for all German pilots, it was a matter of "fly and fight until the war ends, or you are killed": consequently, almost all eventually fell, and today only a tiny handful survive.
Rudel's personal victories as a ground-attack pilot were achieved exclusively against the Soviets, and despite the most primitive conditions imaginable, including operations solely from dirt, mud, and snow covered airfields, his confirmed victories (those witnessed by two or more fellow pilots) include:
518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
11 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft
Through direct action, he saved tens of thousands of German infantrymen from certain encirclement and annihilation during the long retreat which began in July 43 and lasted until the war's end, almost two years later.
He was shot down 32 times lost a leg and kept fighting til the end.
Shot down 32 times.
Innumerable aircraft brought back to base that were later written off, due to heavy combat damage.
Wounded on many occasions, including the partial amputation of his right leg in the Spring of 45, after which he continued to fly with a prosthetic limb.
March 44: Disaster struck when Rudel landed behind Soviet lines to retrieve a downed German aircrew. Snow and mud bogged down the airplane, making it impossible to take off. Approaching Soviet troops forced everyone to flee on foot, but barring their escape was the 900 foot wide river Dnjestr. The Germans stripped to their longjohns, and swam across the ice-clogged river. Rudel's close friend and crewman, Erwin Henstchel, drowned a few feet from the far shore. They had flown 1490 missions together at the time of Hentschel's death. His body was never recovered.
Rudel was pursued by hundreds of Soviet troops who were intent on collecting the 100,000 ruble bounty which Stalin had placed on his head, and he was shot in the shoulder while they chased him with dogs and on horseback. Through incredible ingenuity, audacity, and raw determination, Rudel escaped and made his way, alone and unarmed, back home, despite being more than 30 miles behind Soviet lines when he began his 24 hour trek. He was barefoot and almost naked in the sub-freezing winter weather, without food, compass, or medical attention. His escape stands as the single most legendary example of personal bravery and luck during the Second World War, but he never fully recovered emotionally from Hentschel's death, for which he blamed himself throughout the remainder of his life.
"Verloren ist nur, wer sich selbst aufgibt"
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm
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Yes, but he was a goose-stepping leather fetishist and fervent Nazi. But apart from that I'm sure he was a wonderful guy. ;)
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Hans Ulrich Rudel was not a member of the Nazi party, participated in no war crimes, did not go into hiding after the war, and was never even accused of any such activities by any organization or Nazi-hunter, including the Shin Bet.
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Really?
Hans Ulrich Rudel, the son of a Protestant minister, was born in Konradswaldau, Germany, on 2nd July 1916. A member of the Nazi Party he joined the Luftwaffe and flew 2,530 sorties...
After the Second World War he fled to Argentina. He returned in 1953 and joined the neo-Nazi German Reich Party."
I never said he committed war crimes, but there is no getting away from the fact he was a fully paid up member of the Nazi party (and not out of convenience or convention, either).
I maintain he was a convinced Nazi, and his right-wing activities post-WW2 were a perpetual embarrassment to the German government at the time.
Revise away.
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
But apart from that I'm sure he was a wonderful guy. ;)
Rall about Rudel, who he was with for 3 weeks after the war, interrogated by British in Tangmer (sorry, my translation).
"When you are long enough with same person you know him better and can understand his thoughts. Though I knew him before, I was suprised how much egocentrical he was. He really thought he was such a great person. It was quite unpleasant."
About Stuka, from captain Eric Brown's "Wings of the Luftwaffe":
"...it will always remain a mystery to me how these stalwarts escaped destruction if there were any enemy fighter pilots of even mediocre skill in the same area of sky as their Ju87".
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Rudel was a rightwing nut, holocaust denier and all. But you quoted a web source like I did. Theres some questions as to his membership in the NSDAP. His personal political views would certainly classify him as a "Nazi".
Theres no question in regard to his politics and his activities in ultra right politics after the war.
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Ju 87 is my prefferred weapon of choice agin ground vehicles........
Its deadly accurate, and agin Osties from way beyond the range of the 37mm........ 2 x 250KG will kill a MkIV......... and the 1800Kg will take out the Tiger.............the 1000kg will finish a Tiger off if its had some other damage
Over several sorties I took out 1 Tiger, 3 Mkiv's and 2 osties for one Stuka loss last night.............. for me thats good......
What the Stuka needs is air cover.......... ie teamwork.