Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: CurtissP-6EHawk on December 18, 2002, 09:13:00 PM
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I have attached a wuick film of what my nose looks like when it bounces. I have been playing AH for four months now and I caint get it to stop. With or without trim, or auto trim, it still does it.
For example;
When I am in a turn I am applying aft presure, when this aft presure is released, gently or rapidly, to the center, the nose bounces around. I am missing many many shots because of this.
The plan in the film is the Yak-9t. Notice the ball deflection simply by pulling or pushing the stick.
Also attached in the following replys are snap shots of my current stick settings. I do not have rudder peds or a twisty stick so I have to use the "A" "S and "D" keys for rudder. They too are way too sensative but no way to ajust them. These combanations make it imposable for my to get quick snap shots, or HO presision shots. I am really loosing intrest in flying do to these problems. I thought paying a lot of money for a so called great stick would eliminate this problem but it has not.
I have a CH Fighterstick
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pic
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pic
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if its USB, try deadpan & damping all the way down
and all the other sliders all the way up on both pitch and roll
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I have the dead band and damper set slightly due to a slight reverse sensing in the nuetral position. When I pull aft, for a split second I get a stick foward command. Either way, my prescision shooting is hampered. If I knew it was my stick, or pots or something, I would replace them or clean them if I knew how.
I played WarBirds about two weeks with this stick and it did the same thing there. Did I get a stick with bad pots?
If its the pots, were can I order new ones?
Thanks Guys!!
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Try setting the pitch scale so your stick isn't so sensitive.
Your current setting jumps from about 30-100% rather quickly.
Try setting pitch to a diagonal from 0-90 where the 0 slider
is about 10%, 10 is 20% etc, just like it shows in the AH help
file under Joystick Setup and Calibration.
Contact CH Products if your stick is spiking and you aren't
comfortable taking the pots apart and cleaning them.
--)-FLS----
Musketeers
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I'm with FLS here,
1:think about what is happening with your settings here, as you move you stick it goes from min to max very quickly, I would scale your sliders. mine are set to the default diagonal setting on pitch ,roll and rudder but I know some people go for a nice curve.
2:I find that setting the damping quite high i.e. 25% up on the rudder axis cures most of my nose bounce, unfortunatly as you you dont have any rudder control this will not help, all I can suggest is to raise the damping on pitch and roll to make the joystck less sensitive in the center areas so that a small movement of your hand will not move the plane so around so much.
hope this helps a little, there is a thread somewhere with pictures of settings for sliders in. :)
:)
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They are right on the stick settings.
In fact do the exact opposite of how you have them set.
Stay low & flat curve up to finish at 100%
Try the first 5 at 1/2" increments then climb to the top with the last 4.
Stick Spike can ussually be settled with a touch of damper.
As long as the last slider makes it to the top you can get full control defelection when needed.
Roll I prefer pure stairstep unless its oversensitive.
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Just a sidenote on the rudder [ a,s,& d ] adjustment, and I'm not sure it will effect it. You 'may' be able to adjust them from the control panel in windows. If you adjust the Keyboard delay and repeat rate the may effect the a,s&d key reactions.
On the stick, CH gear usually is very good and I think adjustments of your scale will help immensly.
For parts, and I don't think they will be needed to be replaced, but the CH site sells many parts. I've bought switches from them and now my stick feels like it's new.
[ Which I could buy a switch for me so I feel almost new. ]
fuzeman
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I ask only because it hasn't been discussed.
Have you calibrated the stick both from Window, using a control panel and in Aces High?
The current settings you show would exaggerate any calibration errors.
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Here's the stick scale I use and has pretty much eliminated any nose bounce for me.
Stick Scale (http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/stick.cfg)
ack-ack
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confirm;
0,32769,65535,0.085000,0.170000,0
0,34463,65535,0.085000,0.186000,0
0,30093,65535,0.188000,0.376000,0
442,442,65535,0.181000,0.394000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0,0,65535,0.050000,0.100000,0
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
I tried it and still if not worse bounce.
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I had some really wierd stick problems for a while that did not resolve with any number of changes. Until...
I removed and re-installed
1. Sound card drivers
2. Video card drivers
3. Direct-X8<==I think this is the one that fixed it. But do all of this in safe mode.
Then recalibrate your joystick in windows.
I thought I had a bad joystick too until I started reloading drivers because my DX8 crashed. I even called the tech support for my JS and they said it was bad pots too.
Trust me, try it and save yourself some time. I also had a ctd problem that I fixed by reloading Windows. Go figure.
BTW, you should post this in the tech support forum.
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i recently went through several commercially available sticks to eliminate stick bounce. best setup is a 2 axis joystic with rudder pedals...but since r/p's are hard to find locally I did not get to test them. I did test the saitek and thrustmaster setups with the rudder on the throttle. that worked quite well for eliminating bounce...however, the thrustmaster was too small for my hands and the saitek had lousy driver support..so I ended up tweeking the settings on my microsoft precision pro 2.
key learnings: i found most bounce was induced when I applied rudder -- me rudder is scaled to from about 20% to a max of 60% and now i like the setting and it induces minimum bounce. pitch axis was the #2 culprit, adjust pitch down to minimize bounce, as previous guys have said, work your sliders down on the left, moving them up as you go from 0% up to 100%. I left roll at max.
you can use the graph box at the lower left of the joystick screen to watch your axis inputs -- tweek the settings so that they don't max out with just a little input, and watch for the effect one axis has on the others. You will have to experiment a bit for your stick.
lastly, $49 us dollars for a decent, easy to use stick :) . the microsoft stick has a rudder on the handle, it is easy to program and use and keeps your hand off the keyboard during a fight.
good luck
bockk
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oops, nevermind the 49 dollar part hehe:( i see you have a decent stick......
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bocko I had the MS PP with FFB and a twist rudder. I loved it but the plastic parts died quick and they are now out dated and no longer made. Even with that I had a lot of bounce. I have adjusted and a lot of bounce is gone. Not enough to get pres hits but playable. It may be my system.
Thanks for all the help guys
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What is stick spike?
a kind of nail? :)
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if you look in the scaling pictures above, in the top black box, there is a line strait across. This stick has no spikes. As your stick gets older, or your win calibration slips, you'll start getting spikes. As you move your stick on the screen (stick cal screen) you'll seeing the lines move to show you the inputs you are doing. When you get spikes it will look like a heart monitor with out you touching the stick.... lots of little spikes. This can give you the "don't move your stick so fast error"
To get rid of the spikes, recal your stick in windows, then in AH, then if they are still present, slide the dead band up a bit. Don't move the dead band any more than you have to.
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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A-ha
Thanks a lot!
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See my reply at the following thread http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71311 as it may help with the nose bounce.
:)
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LOL That link on previous page is from the one and only RWY's page.Havent seen that in ages.
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I find that messing with these settings only hamper the problem.
I had to set the dampen/deadband slightly on the pitch because I get a split sec reverse command.
I noticed last night that the nose bounce is different for different airplanes and some planes have little to no bounce at all. Because I noticed this I decided to fly all planes to see which ones do this. As for right now, I notice the F4F-4 and the Yak9-U are the worse ones. The Tempest being the best so far. Killing/Straffing ground targets in the F4F-4 is practicaly imposable as well as shooting aircraft in a turn fight.
I have tried all suggestions by you all and I get bittersweet results...Ill keep trying:(
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In the stick.cfg the bottom 3 lines are the ones that adjust the stick scaling / response curve.
Of these 3 lines the top one is the pitch. Here are my current settings.
0.12,0.34,0.53,0.70,0.84,0.94,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00
1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00
1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00,1.00
The first columns are virtually flat which gives very fine control around the centre point for lining up a target.
Dead band and damping i set to zero however your last post suggets you may need some.
Personally I also always trim my pitch down before fighting, meaning i have to maintain some back pressure on the stick to fly level.
I find it a lot easier to slightly release stick pressure to line up a con quickly rather than stop pulling and then start pushing stick away which i always find leads to over correction errors.
YMMV but given the trouble your having anythings worth a go.
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I agree, I have had stick bounce for 1 1/2 years for this game. Never got rid of it. This game is just to complicated. Once you start missing with drivers I always end up missing up my computer. It's a great game but no longer fun for me. :(
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I started flying many aircraft and found out that most early war planes have unplayable nose bounce while other late war planes are more stable. This makes me want to believe that it is the game and not my stick.
I fly for a living and can asure you that real airplanes do not have this bounce. Trim response and hellashious turbulent air yes, but no bounce.
...however, Im still trying.......
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I don't know if this will help any one, but this is one thing I found.
I got a web cam as a gift, so I figured I'd throw it in and test it out. Problem was I had my stick running thru a RadioShack adapter to turn the analog plug to a USB plug. No problem, plug the stick back into the sound board joystick plug and run the webcam. BIG MISTAKE !!!
No matter how much I messed with the stick settings I could NOT get the nose bounce to settle down !!! I've been flying over a year and have a good idea what to fiddle with, but nothing helped. Out went the camara, and back in went the adapter !!!
2 mins of adjusting, and no bounce again ! Maddog is happy :D LOL!! If ya got an analog stick plugged into your sound card ya might want to try the adapter. RadioShack sells them for like $10 and it a piece of cake to set-up. Plug your stick into it, plug it into a USB port, boot computer, calibrate in windows, calibrate in AH done !
Don't give up !
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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Has anyone used the Radio Shack USB adapter with Windows XP? I saw that it was for Win98, So I dont know if it would work with this version...
"It's not stupid... it's advanced."
Monark
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oops sorry, mine is win98 SE.... the best gaming platform ! don't know about XP, but the guy who told me about the unit was first in line for XP when it came out, and it was after that he told me about the adapter so I'm thinking he had no trouble with it.
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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This is what I have:
Gutted out Gateway 2000 to:
Duron 800
GA-7IEX4 AGPset (motherboard with USB)
GeForce2MX GA-GF1280 Grafics Accelerator
Windows ME
256MB Ram
CH Fighterstick USB
No Rudder Peds :-(
Nose bounce on all aircraft, unplayable with slower early models
Frame rate staedy mid 30s in clean maps up to 45, 12-20 in dirty maps with rates down to 9 when real bzy or around small puffy clouds.
I updated this computer myself but I know nothing about them. I am lucky I got it running but do not know how to tweek anything.
I do not understand how to run the CH products control manager and adjust everything inside AH manager.
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Curtiss;
I'm on a Dell 8100, Windows ME, with CH Fighterstick USB. The attached picture shows the Roll settings -- Pitch is set the same. See if these settings give any relief from the nose bounce.
MachNix
0.11,0.33,0.46,0.59,0.67,0.73,0.80,0.85,0.90,1.00
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So I ran out to RadioShack today, the converter was 15$, It did get ride of the Stick Spikes I was having huge problems with. Of coarse now my Hatswitch doesnt work...
This could be a problem with WinXP because the converter is designed with Win98 in mind, but I really dont know.
It did in fact get ride of the Stick Spiking, so if that is a problem, it is worth a shot.
Monark
giving in and just blowing another 400$ on joysticks...
"It's not stupid... It's advanced!"
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I Have all CH stuff.... stick, throttle, and pedals. I've never set my stick up with a hat. I've always used the CH stick programmer and set those switches for the views individually. Works great !
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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Monark I went and looked and the guy told me I did not need it. He said it was converting a dialog plug into a USB plug. He said my joystick was already USB.
MaddogJoe
I have never been able to get my CH programer to work :-(
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Is it a problem with the program...CH programmer.... or you can't figure out how to do it?
My email is maddogjoe@charter.net (maddogjoe@charter.net) send me a note and maybe I can help ya.
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
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Have you read HT help pages for joysticks..
Joystick scaling
The joystick scaling sliders allow you to change the response curve of your joystick. Each slider represents a percentage of your joystick's actual movement versus how much input you want the game to read. Each slider represents 10% of your joystick's travel and are labeled at the top. If all sliders are maxed out, this will give you a linear response curve. It is recommended that you avoid setups that make large jumps in adjacent columns. For example, if the rudder axis is selected and you move the 50% slider halfway down, when you deflect your rudder pedals 50% of their travel, your rudder will only move 25%.
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Hey Hawk...Looks like you have dirty pots. You can take them apart and clean them to remove the dirt. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, get new pots from the manufacturer.
Also...Can't belive you don't have rudder pedals. With your talent....you really need some. Either buy a set of CH's or if you want, I'll gladly donate my Thrustmaster pedals to you...No charge. They're functional, but I broke the centering spring in a dogfight a few weeks back...You may not even miss this, but you can get a spring from TM. If you have 150.00....Order a set of Simped Vario Pro pedals from Germany...I just got some and they're literally the best pedals in the World, with a Hall effect sensor instead of a pot, and Ball bearing center shaft. They'll last forever, and change your life. Just what we need....You getting better :)
Let me know if you want my TM pedals.
Swoop
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Hey swoop, I have CH rudder peds and a CH throttle OTW :D Its time for me to perform or shut up. No more excuses. I also have ordered two new pots. What do I clean these in, contact cleaner?
How much and where can I order the Simped Vario Pro pedals from Germany?
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Hey swoop, I have CH rudder peds and a CH throttle OTW :D Its time for me to perform or shut up. No more excuses. I also have ordered two new pots. What do I clean these in, contact cleaner?
How much and where can I order the Simped Vario Pro pedals from Germany?
Good,
I was scanning over this thread and was going to tell you to get new pots. I replace mine every 6 to 9 months. Cleaning them helps, but they will go to crap very soon. New pots make your stick perform like it did when it was brand new. Don't clean them, just install, calibrate and play.
eskimo
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Hey eskimo, I realy think I had at least one bad one when I got the stick new. I was upset at spending $150 (I think) for a stick that didnt perform much different than a $40 stick. I spent the cash for durability more than anything else.
Thanks Guys!
oh yeah, sorry about yelling at ya last night about the CV. I saw thiers comming, odee changed the course, I changed it back then you changed it again. I sank one but couldnt hit the other one and it finally diappeared off over the horizon. If it had not been for them overlooking our VH, we may have lost that field...sometimes I forget its just a game ;)
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Simpeds home page
http://home.t-online.de/home/d-hofmann/homeeng.htm
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I have tried all settings given by you guys and nothing helps.
I did notice that the bounce is from pitch only and roll does not have the bounce in it. This leads me to believe it has something to do with gyroscopic precession aspect design of the game.
I can apply back pressure then release it. As long as I have some sort of aft pressure on the stick, the nose will gradually return close to level flight. As soon as I return the stick to center, it bounces. Same for foward stick movement. When I begain to return the stick to center the nose begains to com up toward level, but If I return the stick to center before the "Trim" can catch up with it, it bounces. It does this with or without combat trim. However, Combat trim does help.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
I had some really wierd stick problems for a while that did not resolve with any number of changes. Until...
I removed and re-installed
1. Sound card drivers
2. Video card drivers
3. Direct-X8<==I think this is the one that fixed it. But do all of this in safe mode.
Then recalibrate your joystick in windows.
I thought I had a bad joystick too until I started reloading drivers because my DX8 crashed. I even called the tech support for my JS and they said it was bad pots too.
Trust me, try it and save yourself some time. I also had a ctd problem that I fixed by reloading Windows. Go figure.
BTW, you should post this in the tech support forum.
Did you try this advice along with the scaling advice???
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So explain to me how to remove and reinstall Direct X8.
I cannot find this on add remove programs
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Haven't tried it myself but several say it works great.
DJ229
Defiance
Senior Member
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: UK (up for adoption to broadband home)
Posts: 236
DX Buster/Remover (works great with DX9)
Hiya's,
Found a DX remover that works fine with DX9
Goto link and d/load it http://pcmedicdirect.com/downloads/...ter/dxb133e.exe
It will install into prog files
Run it and you will see 3 tabs with step options 1/2/3
Goto 3rd tab and click start
It will ask ok to proceed etc
After that it will ask for a reboot
When back in windose install DX version you want
DX will ask to reboot
Job Done
Works with 9x and 2000 i believe
My OS is now 98SE and i removed DX9 back to DX8.1 easy as pie
Hope this helps anyone who is getting slight freezing after upgrading to DX9
__________________
Have Fun
Def
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