Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sabre on December 19, 2002, 03:59:19 PM
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A must-have to improve ground combat. Instead of the instant-death from colliding with a collide-able object (trees, buildings, etc), please change the level of damage from collisions to be speed-based, and to have a collision-hardness factor for both objects and the vehicles themselves. As an example, if traveling below 5 mph, a vehicle colliding with an object will simply be brought to a halt; from 5 mph to less than 15 mph, the vehicle is damaged (random engine, turret, track); at 15 mph or above, the GV is destroyed. This might be modified by the “toughness” of the vehicle. Also, colliding with the object might damage the object, based on the “collision-hardness” of the objects. Thus, a Tiger could have a low-speed collision with a small building and demolish the building without damage to the Tiger. An M-8 could hit the same building and possibly kill or disable the M-8 without harming the building.
The exception would be trees, as they are not usually destroyable in a terrain. In that case, the collision toughness would be infinite, but damage to the colliding GV would still be dependent on GV speed.
Visibility being what it was (awful for a buttoned up tank), tank drivers often use the “drive-by-brail” method to edge up to cover, easing forward until they bumped the object they were tying to get close to.
Oh yeah, and I must include my usual plug for dust trails for moving vehicles. A light-brown dust trail similar to the oil/fuel/coolant leak plumes on planes would be great. Stop the tank, and the plume goes away. The faster you move, the longer the plume. Please? Pretty-please?
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Just to be sure HTC sees it:).
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IMHO, some things should not damage any vehicle at all, such as:
- cammo netting (sides of VH)
- small rocks on the ground (often seen in sand dune areas). At present, driving into a tank-sized boulder stops the GV but does no damage, while hitting a small, whitish rock blows it up.
- trees
In all these cases, the GV should drive on w/out any change of speed and w/out incurring any damage. Maybe do trees like AW2/3 in that there's a SCRUNCH sound played when hitting one, but no speed loss or damage to the GV. Maybe also do like AW and make the sheep squeal when run over :)
As for buildings, IMHO GVs shouldn't be able to drive into them and do damage. In real life, all my sources indicate that hitting buildings was usually extremely damaging for GVs of any type and often resulted in their abandonment or disablement. The movies you see of tanks emerging from buildings were all staged, and when tanks were put inside buildings for battle, there was a lot of preparatory engineering work needed, which is outside the scope of AH :). So I'd leave GVs vs. buildings as it is now, with the GV dying and no damage to the building.
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Another thing I hate:
Driving over town ruins which appear flat causes even a 50 ton tank to immediately flip over and explode, regardless of speed. This is ridiculous.
Nothing short of a 1000 lb bomb exploding 3 feet away could flip over a tank.
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Was just driving over a deacked field in Tiger (in H2H).
My tank was was lost after colliding with destroyed field ack.
Hmmmm.
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LOL Tanks shouldnt be destroyed by bumping into anything, period. depending on what they bumped into get damaged perhaps but certainly not by bumping into anything cept MAYBE at high speed into a boulder.
and certaily not by runnig over flattened building parts or even active AAguns. if anything the tank should be able to flatten these things and destroy then as opposed to the other way around. I can see the small white rocks though. think of em as antitank mines. JUST to keep you on your toes ;)
Drediock
Originally posted by Hristo
Was just driving over a deacked field in Tiger (in H2H).
My tank was was lost after colliding with destroyed field ack.
Hmmmm.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL Tanks shouldnt be destroyed by bumping into anything, period.
The only exception I can think of is if the tank places itself in the way of a train. Sorry, but the train will destroy the tank.
Other than that nitpick, I agree.
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yeah, but the train would be diddlyed aswell:D
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Has hitech ever commmented on this? I did a search and wasn't having any luck.
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HTC doesn't seem to make comments on these type of 'hot button' issues. Well, sometimes they do, but there are MANY issues where there seems to be no offcial HTC response.
Really, I think it is too bad. How many times does the same issue get brought up, over and over again, because HTC hasn't commented. Another FAQ section would be great for unanswered questions like...
1. Why do GVs explode on contact and will it be fixed?
2. Will we ever get a perma-squelch list?
3. Will we ever get persistant tracer settings for each vehicle type?
4. Will we get a .formationspread commnd?
There are many more 'old' questions that seem to resurface every few months. Hopefully, someday, all things will be made known by the HTC staff. Hopefully...
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Lost 2 tiger tanks to this issue last night. In fact I think I have only lost 1 tiger tank to a player ever, the rest have been killed by the terrain. Resolving this would remove a quite frustrating issue from the game.
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Originally posted by Sabre
A must-have to improve ground combat. Instead of the instant-death from colliding with a collide-able object (trees, buildings, etc),
Absolutely. Died running over small, flat building side yesterdayq after driving over hill and dale to slug it out. Really pissed me off.
Also, cold we get external view ofr tanks? Like Bombers? Tanking is a multi-crew member required sport and so, like bombing, you sometime sneed to be observing and driving/gunning.
Thankee
Sakai
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agree its getting really silly
Ive lost 2 tigers to rocks.
one of them i lost after driving a few hundred feet from the VH.
I couldnt even see anything but all that was there werelittle bushes with grey rocks so i assume they were made of C4! ?
really, hitting trees in a tank at best would just stop the tank.can we have realistic model for it please
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Yes, it makes me sick.
Those small whiteish rocks in desert, trees, flat town debris etc. should not affect tanks at all.
Large trees may be detrimental to M16s, but a tank would simply tip them over and continue on.
Tanks should even be able to run over small objects, like field acks or Paras. Ramming a plane on the ground should destroy the plane only.
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Please, HiTech, fix this. It is the single biggest issue with GV's right now. All the other great things you have planned for GV's will come to not unless this issue is addressed. Thanks.
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Originally posted by Sabre
Please, HiTech, fix this. It is the single biggest issue with GV's right now. .
I agree!
eskimo
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Originally posted by Sabre
As an example, if traveling below 5 mph, a vehicle colliding with an object will simply be brought to a halt;
Actually I have experienced this with a PT boat. I was able to beach it by driving it up reaaal slow onto the beach. It was 5mph or less.
On an M3, I have actually sidewiped a tree and the M3 spun around due to the bouncing effect.
But, I don't think these happen too often...
BTW, speaking of improving ground warfare... has anyone questioned the ability of vehicles with tracks travelling at an excess of 100mph like driving a tank down the slope? It should throw your tracks off I believe, especially those of WW2 vintage. I have made a tank jump too :D
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HTC Comment and I will NOT go to the Convention.....
Oh well yer loss...
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Originally posted by Hawklore
HTC Comment and I will NOT go to the Convention.....
Oh well yer loss...
heeeey... what kind of sim is this? Total warfare or a flight simulator? these things are just added fun for my taste... :)
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No no you just don't get the joke...
If he respons I wont come to convention and everyone will be happy..but if he dosnt..then everyone can expect torture...
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oops... that's what happens for looking at this BB while working...:D sorry...
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Agree, the terrain items that will destroy a tank need to be changed.
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Don't tell the EPA about this...but...I accidentally pushed over a few trees at Fort Knox when I was a tank instructor for the Armor School. A friend and I decided we would just "see what happens" while we were out in an area we called the "mud pit" and well out of sight/out of mind with our vehicles and crew of trainees.
Neither of us could find the balls to go at it at high speed, but we just crept to the trunk at idle, which stopped the tank. Give it just a little gas and the most wonderful sound of a 2-3 foot tree trunk cracking and toppling over comes next. It was...cool.
After a couple were down, we had satisfied our curiosity and went back to what we were supposed to be doing (driving in circles around the training area).
Neither of us exploded or toppled over. There was a distinct risk of getting high centered on the roots/trunk though, which was something neither of us had considered. That would have been embarrassing to say the least. But anyway, that was the only time I have ever intentionally destroyed anything with a tank, and it was curiosity that made me do it.
Accidentally hit a boulder once on a track called the "basic driver's course". Was going about 15 miles per hour and whammo. Bruised my ribs on the hatch, gunner hit his nose on the sight, tank got a scratch in the paint of the #1 right ballistic skirt, driver said something like "sorry sergeant", boulder rolled a couple of feet down the bank and stopped, senior tank commander yelling over the radio for me to "get control of my vehicle". Embarrassing, but far from fatal.
Anyway, I've gone on long enough about this. The topic just brought back some memories that I thought I'd share with you :)
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Hey I'll take scratched paint over exploding when nudging a tree anyday :p
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Originally posted by LePaul
Hey I'll take scratched paint over exploding when nudging a tree anyday :p
I bet T-34s wouldn't explode driving over buildings and trees.
Just Sayin'
Sakai
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL Tanks shouldnt be destroyed by bumping into anything, period.
Depends on impact speed.... maybe you would not destroy the tank but you would severly damage it. And not even taling about the crew...
Seriously - high speed bump (tank speed-wise) into a older tree is something I would not like to be doing when inside of the tank....
But then again AH-wise - low speed tree collision should not destory the tank... maybe slow it down while passing "through" the tree but not destory the vehicle. And the same goes for smaller ground objects - such as ack positions (which should be destroyed by runing a tank over them) etc.
But again this would prolly require some more coding... But would be really nice (and more realistic) to have!
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Looks like all who going to con belonging to us...
Personality#1 Isnt that right...
Personality#2 Yessss..
Personality#1 We will rule them all wont we..
Personality#2 yesssss..
Personality#1 They stole are precious..
Personality#2 yessss...
Personality#1 You dont talk much do you?
Personality#2 yessss...
Personality#1 Your a yes man arent you
Personality#2 yesss...
Personality#1 yesss...
Personality#2 *-=looks confuesd=-*
[edit] Personality # 1 and # 2 added so ppl can get it....Right Fdutchman ;)
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lol hawklore...
those small whitish rocks are mines
those trees are american old growth redwood so naturally because of your tree hugging nature you will not take out old growth trees(maybe we should get some redwood shots for tanks hehehe)
you blow up when you hit buildings because you cant stand to take out the owners teenagesons bed (or whats under it hehehe)
you get taken out when you hit ack because of your deep respect for 20mm rounds
there...except for the good spelling that sounds like something ht would say...
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Cripes! Lost three or four Tiger tanks Saturday night because I ran over peices of destroyed buildings. And I was trying to avoid them at that! Good thing they were free in the CT. If I'd have lost them in the MA, at 60 or so perkies a peice, I'd have been royally peeved. Please, can we fix this in the next patch or version? Thanks.
Sabre
CT Staff
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in the hopes of a response from HTC. It's that important!
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Tiger has a bug thats fixed for the next patch.
HiTech
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Thanks for looking into this hitech and lettign us know.
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what would we do without HiTech..:rolleyes:
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While your response only address one facet of the problem, I appreciate the response, HiTech. I knew the Tiger had a bug with the bridge objects, being unable to cross them (ground clearance problem?). I didn't realize the same bug was causing deaths by running over destroyed building peices. I could have sworn this was a general GV problem, i.e. all GV's were killed by running over destroyed building parts (at least I remember being killed by it in other vehicle types).
At the risk of sounding ungrateful, what about the issue of colliding with trees and other terrain objects? Since you've gone to the trouble and expense of creating new objects for the ground war, it stand to reason that this issue will become even more important to resolve. It makes no sense to create an earthen berm to hide your tank behind if everytime you bump into it your vehicle explodes. The same goes for all the other cool looking TB-objects added in the last TE. Grasing the corner of a building or tree happened regularly in real life. If we have to be that cautious around terrain objects, there's little incentive to trying to use them for cover and concealment.
To summarize, please consider some of the ideas put forth for making the terrain a bit more GV-friendly (or at least less GV-lethal). Thanks.
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Originally posted by Sabre
At the risk of sounding ungrateful, what about the issue of colliding with trees and other terrain objects? Since you've gone to the trouble and expense of creating new objects for the ground war, it stand to reason that this issue will become even more important to resolve. It makes no sense to create an earthen berm to hide your tank behind if everytime you bump into it your vehicle explodes. The same goes for all the other cool looking TB-objects added in the last TE. Grasing the corner of a building or tree happened regularly in real life. If we have to be that cautious around terrain objects, there's little incentive to trying to use them for cover and concealment.
Also, particularly with the introduction of permanent ground features, an issue of visibility comes up.
When you're out tooling around in a GV, you don't see all of the trees, rock formations, sheep, or whatever the terrain designer has picked for random ground cover; at a certain range from your vehicle, the ground cover doesn't get drawn.
Unfortunately, it appears that when it doesn't get drawn, it doesn't exist. On a number of occasions in all of the terrains that the MA rotates through, I have observed that tank cannon rounds are stopped completely by trees, even if the shell trajectory just touches a leaf. However, if the tree is not drawn in your view, your FE doesn't perform collision detection against it, so you can fire through a tree that is blocking your target's fire back to you, simply because they're close enough to see it and you're not (and the converse, taking hits from shells that fly unconcerned through trees that block your outgoing shells).
Particularly with the giant boulders in the AKDESERT map, you can think you're safely hidden behind a terrain object, but because your opponent is far enough away for the terrain object (but not your GV) to be ignored, they see you sitting there in open terrain with your bellybutton hanging out begging for them to shoot you.
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How about bullets just go thru trees, and large cannons can go thru rocks (to simulate blowing the toejam outta the rock)
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Im not holding onto my promise :p
:D