Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chairboy on December 20, 2002, 12:38:36 AM
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This is too funny! In the MA tonight, some love muffin swears up and down about Bishops, calling them a bunch of names that quite reasonably meet the definition of 'obscene', so I make a crack about how even though he said that stuff, he'll still have an active radio but the first time I say 'darnit' I'll get muted.
Seconds later, I get a popup saying 'Chairboy you got a problem with my rules, my game?'
Better yet, I post the text of this to the buffer, laughing about it, and get another message saying 'keep pushing, chairboy'
I've gotta wonder, where does HTC get these Napoleon complex moderators? An effective moderator would be someone who takes care of business when he needs to, but is secure enough to not have to respond to every light hearted crack that he/she might think has been directed at them.
Warning someone that you're going to mute them because they imply that the moderation is uneven? Sounds like a pretty insecure person to me.
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We have to survive an intensive training program..
keep it up and youll be off of here too...
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Best response to this "moderator" behavior I can think of is to screenshot the stiff you thought was over the line, plus what you got a warning for. Let HT and Pyro decide if the moderators are playing favorites.
I've never gotten a popup message, so I really cannot say how I would react. I would presume that filming the incident and then sending the parts you are describing might tip off HTC that they have given the moderators a bit too much power and prompt them to look into whoever was online at the time as a moderator and give them a good dressing down.
I too have seen language that went WAY over the line as far as I am concerned, yet the person(s) spewing out the trash continued on unabated. I, after reading the numerous posts about the moderators, have begun to wonder just how biased they are, and why they "warn" someone for saying a small thing, yet allow obscene and oftentimes belligerent language to go on and on and on.....................
Maybe HTC could have the moderators keep a log of who they warned and why, provide screenshots or films of why they took the action they did and let HTC decide if there is bias in the stuff people get warned about, and why others are allowed to ramble freely without interference.
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So how do you know that this other person wasnt warned or muted for what he said? And why is it that you have to stick your nose in and try to piss off the moderator in the first place?
I honestly dont understand the thinking behind you guys that come here to squeak about warnings and what-not. If someone gives you a warning, why not just shut up about it and get back to playing? Why do you feel the need to mouth off to the moderator and make an issue out of something as trivial as a language warning or whatever?
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Sling if you were obeying the law, and driving perfectly with in the "laws" and a police officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket for something you obviously didn't do. You're going to shut up and take the ticket right?
Glad to have you follow, someone needs to.
-BlckMgk
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Srry CB. Im all for moderators. If you believe your being dragged beyong the line of sensibility you can realistically do one of two things:
1) Call HTC and complain
2) Quit and offer the moderators unfair interruption of your fun, which you are paying for the privalidge of.
Either way, the matter will have pressed far forward of where it will get just by being aired here.
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So, what would be the point in squeaking out the cop? I would:
A. Tell the cop he is wrong and I didn't do what he thinks I did.
B. Accept the ticket.
C. Go to court and plead Not Guilty.
SOB
...of course, in the cop scenario I'd be in a democracy. In AH I am not.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Seconds later, I get a popup saying 'Chairboy you got a problem with my rules, my game?'
Any moderator that comes out with that line should be stripped of his mojo powers. It only enforces the belief that moderators act with bias and favoritism and don't follow the TOS guidelines set down by HiTech.
Ack-Ack
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Clarification, my beef is with moderators threatening to mute people for something other then swearing/insulting/etc.
If I was swearing or personally insulting someone and got warned, it would be legit. But when someone else uses really foul language and I joke that I'd probably be muted for saying 'darnit' and I get a mute warning, that's outta line. Oh, and if the moderator is someone other then Hitech, the line 'my rules, my game' is pricelessly funny. Seeing as how this anonymous person used that language, I have laughed quite loudly. A clearer example of a Bonaparte syndrome would be difficult to find.
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Of course, if the muter WAS HiTech, you're just pushing his buttons some more by this post. So, what's wrong with just emailing HTC directly?
SOB
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Apples and oranges Blckmgk.
I was online at the time that this happened. What Sofaking said deserved a warning at least. I just dont understand why people feel the urge to jump in and make cracks that are clearly designed to bait a moderator into taking action. What did Chairboy accomplish by jumping in and making the comments that he did?
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It couldn't have been Hitech, it is my understanding that the spelling/typing of the messages would have had... irregularities.
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Sling, what does anyone 'accomplish' by writing on channel 1? It's a conversation channel.
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Originally posted by sling322
So how do you know that this other person wasnt warned or muted for what he said? And why is it that you have to stick your nose in and try to piss off the moderator in the first place?
So...lemme quote myself here for ya Chairboy. How do you know Sofaking wasnt muted or warned? Is it really that hard to keep your trap shut and let the moderators do what they are there to do without trying to make the situation worse?
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LOL, touché!
SOB
PS...Sofaking is a whiney dipshit.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Sling, what does anyone 'accomplish' by writing on channel 1? It's a conversation channel.
Well, for one thing you 'accomplished' making a big deal out of something that didnt even involve you in the first place and then you bring it here and try to make an even bigger deal out of it.
I guess its just me, but then again, I have never received a warning or a mute because I follow the simple guidelines of keeping my nose out of others business and that you should treat others with respect. Which is, I believe, something that a lot of folks in the MA just dont know how to do....or maybe they just dont care to do it.
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SOB I wouldn't squeak the cop out, thats like hitting a bulldog with a stick. I'd tell the pig politely, "Sir, I think you may be mistaken." And try reason, but that probably wouldn't go far, because he obviously has no reason for pulling me over. Then after all else fails I'll turn a "whatever" ticket into one of those videos you see on TV "Worlds Most Crazy Police Chases 10"
But me being an Aces High Vet. I'll be able to outrun him and lose him.... even if they bring that damn helicopter into play!
-BlckMgk
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Well, how long do mutes last? I saw him on channel 1 just a few minutes later, so if he was muted, it was a magical 5 minute 'cool off' mute instead of the hour+ mutes I read about.
Either way, why don't we have a list of forbidden subjects that cannot be spoken of? If there are delicate subjects like 'moderators' that threaten the game, please let me know what they are so I can practice consistent goodspeak.
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Chairboy, I think the point here is that once you get a warning, you should drop your ego and just STFU. Had you done that, you wouldn't have been muted. Simple enough.
-edit- ...and again, if you feel they were wrong, email HTC.
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BTW, this is the first time I've ever received a warning. Please feel free to belittle my concern and look down your nose at me, sling, until it happens to you.
When the moderators have a personal agenda, we're all at risk.
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LOL Blckmgk, screw outrunning him. Be beligerant enough that he'd have to call backup...then, after they've arrived, jump out of your car, rip your shirt off, and kick their asses! :)
SOB
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, how long do mutes last? I saw him on channel 1 just a few minutes later, so if he was muted, it was a magical 5 minute 'cool off' mute instead of the hour+ mutes I read about.
AFAIK, mutes in the MA last for 10 minutes. Of course everyone says you can just log out and back in and the mute is over. I know that in the SEA, the CMs can adjust the mute time and eject time to whatever we want it to be, but I dont know about the MA.
Either way, why don't we have a list of forbidden subjects that cannot be spoken of? If there are delicate subjects like 'moderators' that threaten the game, please let me know what they are so I can practice consistent goodspeak. [/B]
Do you really think its necessary for HTC to spend time coming up with a list like that? Dont you think their time would be better spent making new planes or improving gameplay in some way?
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Like Yeager, I am all for moderators, just like I am all for policemen and other authority figures who are there to enforce rules.
A while back, Pyro posted comments about the game and "gentleman like" behavior. That is how I personally believe the game should be playing by all involved (sorry for the slight there, ladies.......I mean politeness from the players, women included).
Chairboy, simplest way to solve this, and others who feel they have been singled out in a like manner, would be to film/screenshot the event and email it to HTC. Let THEM decide if the moderator involved was overstepping the line on who to mute or warn, and who should have been muted.
Would make some folks mad, but when a moderator mutes someone, I would like to see it in the text buffer:
"XXXXXXXX has been muted for -------- minutes."
Then everyone should just leave that person alone and not further escalate the situation. Persons who insist on haranging the muted person should, IMO, then be muted or warned themselves.
Just my thoughts. Like I said earlier, I have never received a warning popup message from a moderator, so how I would react in a given situation I cannot predict. Just another reason I think about what I want to say before I type anything into the text buffer.............
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SOB, I wasn't muted. But you're right, questioning injustice is un-american, so I'd better just be quiet. Having an opinion about someone abusing their position is doubleplus ungood, right?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
BTW, this is the first time I've ever received a warning. Please feel free to belittle my concern and look down your nose at me, sling, until it happens to you.
As I said before, I doubt very seriously I will ever get a warning. Its not that hard to stay out of others business and not swear on open channels. Now if they ever put a moderator or swear filter on the squad channel, I could be in big trouble. :)
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Sling, the reason I suggested that we get a list of forbidden subjects is because you seem quite sanguine with the idea of moderators warning/muting people for things that irk them personally but couldn't possibly be construed as ungentlemanly, rude, obscene, or so on.
If I am muted after saying ''I think the Plymouth Prowler looks silly' because the moderator owns and loves his Plymouth Prowler, is that really acceptable?
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So who won, Sofaking or Chairboy? .... I love this furniture wars :D
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There can be only one...
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Originally posted by Chairboy
SOB, I wasn't muted. But you're right, questioning injustice is un-american, so I'd better just be quiet. Having an opinion about someone abusing their position is doubleplus ungood, right?
None of what you just said has anything to do with any of my posts. If you go back and read my posts, you'll see that I (on two occasions) suggest emailing the problem to HTC if you feel slighted.
I just feel that posting about it on the BB, despite the fact that it has been posted about a million times already is, well...silly.
SOB
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Ya know what....never mind.
Ya just dont "get it" do ya?
It all goes back to if you had kept your mouth shut and let the moderators deal with Sofaking, none of this would have even come up, right? Is that so hard to understand?
And, if in the future you get "moderated" for something that you feel isnt worthy of moderating, do like SOB said. Film it and send it to HTC. Let them take a look at it and take action. Doing what you did and coming here to squawk about it has done absolutely nothing to solve the problem.
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I hate this consept of moderating communications. This would never happen if HTC was anything but US.
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"Let" them deal with sofaking?
Sir, I believe you suggest powers that I do not possess! I doubt I could have interfered with them even if I had so wished.
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Sofaking isn't furniture... he's wetawded.
-SW
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I got my first popup warning the other night.
Somebody asked where a Panzer IV H had to shoot a Tiger to kill it and I tried to respond "Point blank, in the ass."
It didn't transmit and I got a popup warning me of my language. Now this was an automatic system warning, not a live person.
I had to send it agains as "Point blank, in the rear."
It just doesn't work that way.
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Even US TV dosn't *bleep* out words like "silly" or "ass".
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This is quite funny. Many players here belittle those who play Quake. At least that part of Quake community I am part of doesn't require moderators and such to keep the behaviour in check.
// fats
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The words my rules, my game are the important factor here..
Unless it was hitech himself, it's obvious that this moderator is on a huge power rush over his position. He simply is the wrong person for the job if it's so.
Even a little bit of power can go into people's heads.. If the person is a dipshit with no life / ego, he can become a little hitler with a simple thing as an anonymous power to shut another person up.
A simple cure would be to openly ID the moderator when he mutes someone.
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I'm not against moderator, of course but......
I think that, when someone act under anonimity, things are running in a wrong way. Too easy picking someone with warnings without showing your face.
If I am warned for something I'd like to know who he is, just like he knows who am I.
That's a question of equality for me.....
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I have a question or two. Is the moderator's name on the roster at the time or is he/she off somewhere lurking where his name is not visible?
Do moderators have the ability to read private messages? Does the system see private messages?
Just curious, have been muted only 2 or 3 times since I started here so it's not like I'm mouthing off ALL the time...
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Maybe moderators could be identified by badge # for reporting problems about unfairness.
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And the winnnuuhhhhh is:
Originally posted by Pepe
So who won, Sofaking or Chairboy? .... I love this furniture wars :D
How about a MIB naming system? Agent J, Agent K.
You get the warning and it says "Agent L" at the bottom.
Could use a double alphabet "Agent KK" if there's lots of them or even go alpha-numeric like "Agent K10" if there's hordes.
What do ya think? And HT can give 'em one of the tiny silver pistols that blow big holes in things! They can hook 'em to the internet and WHAMMO! suddenly the offender's monitor just disappears!
Or would that be over the top?
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No.. Toad..need one of those flashy things.... Now you will smile at the wrists and will no longer talk trash on channel one.. :D
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Originally posted by sling322
really think its necessary for HTC to spend time coming up with a list like that?
Well.. sure would solve allot of mysteries.
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Originally posted by ET
Maybe moderators could be identified by badge # for reporting problems about unfairness.
Want to keep the moderators honest and fair? Easy enough, just display their user name with the mute message. You will see moderation in the moderation in short order. ;)
I've been muted just once over the past year, and that by the auto-mute for addressing mrdick, as just Dick. :eek:
My regards,
Widewing
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I've always been against all kinds of muting in principle..
But there are individuals on ch1 who really need to be muted. For some reason the muters seem to sleep mostly when theyre needed, though.
I hate the autofilter thingy. It's really irritating to try to rephrase something in middle of combat just because the automuter picked upon it.
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try / .squelch annoyingamazinhunk
for keeping the buffer clear of useless moronic BS, nothing beats it...
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What I think is hilarious is that no one has figured out that sling is a moderator, perhaps the moderator.:eek:
Oops! Guess I better watch what I say from now on :D
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"'Chairboy you got a problem with my rules, my game"
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Any moderator that comes out with that line should be stripped of his mojo powers. It only enforces the belief that moderators act with bias and favoritism and don't follow the TOS guidelines set down by HiTech.
Ack-Ack
I totally agree. Talk about power going to your head... HTC should be the only ones uttering those words. No game needs godmode mods.
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Hitech was online last night for a spell - maybe it was him who warned you CB
If it wasn't a htc staff member though.. I dunno, i guess i think what was said in the warning was over the line.
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I wonder will u get muted if you swear in russian or any other forigne tounge?
My point is if only those who type offensive words in english are muted then that reaks of descrimination!!!!
HT you might want to look into that.
Not trying to be a smartass but some joker might just have a case if he was silly enoghf to pursue it!
So unless the the online moderators know every language on the planet maybe they should go to a software controlled monitoring systym.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Seconds later, I get a popup saying 'Chairboy you got a problem with my rules, my game?'
The "my rules, my game" line should have been a clue Chairbot. Any clues as to who that might be? :) WTG, I am sure you earned some ponts for yourself there - hope you enjoyed it. You are probably lucky you can still log on, you were probably really close to what $14.95 was worth to hitech.
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Well I agree we need moderators but I also know that some of them just flat out abuse their power.
I was warned by a moderator for giving a guy a "check 6".
Not the automated one but one I typed myself..1 time!
The moderator told me the guy didn't deserve one so I should stop.
?!?!?
When I asked why I shouldn't give a "check 6" to this guy I was told not to push my luck.
I may be new but I've yet to found a pilot I wouldn't give a "check 6" to and I'll be damned if I'll stop just because a moderator doesn't like someone.
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Originally posted by Turdboy
Well I agree we need moderators but I also know that some of them just flat out abuse their power.
I was warned by a moderator for giving a guy a "check 6".
Not the automated one but one I typed myself..1 time!
The moderator told me the guy didn't deserve one so I should stop.
?!?!?
When I asked why I shouldn't give a "check 6" to this guy I was told not to push my luck.
I may be new but I've yet to found a pilot I wouldn't give a "check 6" to and I'll be damned if I'll stop just because a moderator doesn't like someone.
it'd be nice if you had a screenshot of the error message box to support this (and send into HTC).
if what you say is true... well, gee.... yanno?
:eek:
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How?
If I knew how I would have.
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Originally posted by Turdboy
How?If I knew how I would have.
alt-s is screenshot. it saves to the main HT directory as a .bmp file, you'd need to use mspaint or something to crop out extraneous scenery and rename it as a more managable .jpg file.
the error message boxes don't appear on film. (alr-r)
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The arena is far more civil now then it was a year ago...long live the moderators...
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"I was warned by a moderator for giving a guy a "check 6".
Not the automated one but one I typed myself..1 time!
The moderator told me the guy didn't deserve one so I should stop. "
that is beyond silly... next we will be told what planes to fly.
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That's exactly the problem with giving people anonymous powers..
Shit walks up their heads and they think they can act like Gods with the safety of anonymity.
Have a bad day? Well let's push around some people in the arena..
Wife not giving popsicle? Well let's boost yer ego muting people..
A million possible scenarios there.
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Some people just don't know what to do when their ego takes a shot. HT slapped me upside the head here on the board a week or two ago. Took me by surprise, for I am the great hblair. A former player of warbirds, used to be a trainer here, a CM too, and also helped run the CT for a while. But still he served me a cold cup of STFU! That was some bitter STFU. Tasted awful. But sometimes even great wonderful veterans like myself need to STFU. So you know if I need to STFU occasionally, you peons who mouth off in the MA do too. So STFU!
Thanks!
:p
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Though I'm sure one day I will be muted,I am very pleased to see the MA moderated...It wasn't so long ago toejam slinging was a common response for being shot down.
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I haven't muted channel 1 lately.
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Actually.. Sofaking wasn't heard from for quite a while. I think he did get muted. I've been muted a handful of times...deserved it. What's the big deal?
LOL somewhere up the post some goomba posted about how we're all in danger..blah blah blah.
In danger of what? LOL
Get a life ya whiney girls... if ya get muted.. SO WHAT?
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Originally posted by Lizard3
What I think is hilarious is that no one has figured out that sling is a moderator, perhaps the moderator.:eek:
Not me. I wouldnt take that job if they paid me for it. Too many whiners who want to lynch you around here. Besides, I would spend too much time muting ASSassins and would never get my plane in the air. :D
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Yep, I'm also thinking sling is a moderator. I also think he is a part-time librarian. And he is a cat-lover.
:eek:
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Thanks Shane!
Next time IF there is a next time I will get a screen shot.
OH by the way Steve! Nice fight the other day! I was to busy reupping and defending base to give you the proper WTG! Kicked my but good!
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Originally posted by fats
This is quite funny. Many players here belittle those who play Quake. At least that part of Quake community I am part of doesn't require moderators and such to keep the behaviour in check.
// fats
That's why Quake is over-run with a bunch of 12 year old retards that scream and cuss you out every time they get fragged. Comparing the Quake community to AH's is a friggin' joke, unless you're one of those squeaky voiced 12 year old retards.
Ack-Ack
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After checking into it what Chairboy accutly said was somthing like, if Id say somthing like that , they would mute me instantly.
I.E. here he is online complaning that he has been muted to much. Well after talking to a number of modertors it apears they all hold the common perseption that Chairboy is a P.I.T.A
They were dealing with the situation, when you pipe up and squeak at them. I wouldn't have warned you had I known you freq. get warnings. Id have muted you.
Chairboy grow up, you complain about no specifices, well you are not doing that that because you want to follow the rules, sounds to me you just want to be able to skirt them.
When a monitor warns you he is explaining the rules to you. At that time you can eather addhear to them or get mutted. Its your choice.
And the resone they are not know, is very simply so I can deal with this crap, and not have them arguing with guys like you.
Funny thing is, i've never seen some one say, but that guy got away with it, with out being guilty and knowing they are guilty.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hblair
Some people just don't know what to do when their ego takes a shot. HT slapped me upside the head here on the board a week or two ago. Took me by surprise, for I am the great hblair. A former player of warbirds, used to be a trainer here, a CM too, and also helped run the CT for a while. But still he served me a cold cup of STFU! That was some bitter STFU. Tasted awful. But sometimes even great wonderful veterans like myself need to STFU. So you know if I need to STFU occasionally, you peons who mouth off in the MA do too. So STFU!
Thanks!
:p
STFU already! :D
Come back to the other place, we miss you!
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by sling322
As I said before, I doubt very seriously I will ever get a warning. Its not that hard to stay out of others business and not swear on open channels. Now if they ever put a moderator or swear filter on the squad channel, I could be in big trouble. :)
Heck I swore on squad channel and got an auto warning
so what's with that?
I've never had a mod popup...
But if there are guidelines, and not just an auto filter, I;d surelike to know what they are
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Personally, if I got a warning containing "my game" and "my rules", I would comply very quickly. Nothing like a squeak slap from HiTech to ruin your day!
I've been there but not done that as a moderator in another game. Reason being that strict rules and oversight didn't allow it. But othgers have not faired as well. The temptation is great to squeak slap a player when he involves himself in arena dicipline. Nothing worse for the moderator than to have a bunch of players ganging you in the arena. It's a riot type issue. Somehow it has to be supressed. In times like these the player's best move is to STFU.
Also, moderators can get angry and wish to strike out, especially when the perpetrator has caused trouble in the past. It takes a lot of self control to avoid lashing out. Sometimes they fail in this restraint, or over react. But if they own the game they needn't be as burdoned with restraint (just a word to the wise).
A list of words or things players can't do is not the answer (there will always be the disclaimer that the company can refuse you service at will). Undesirable behavior can come in so many forms, it can't be pinned down (example: the auto-squelch thing). Such a list is likely to be too restrictive on the company, and just give players more ways to try to skirt the rules. Seldom does a player not know when he is flirting with trouble, when he finds it he should not be surprised.
A player can deserve a warning without swearing, by causing trouble in many ways. Intentional and pervasive non-game related behavior in the arena that causes a fuss among players can justify a warning (pay attention to this Shane... love ya bud, but you have gotten off quite easy). Disruption wears many faces.
It may be deserved, or the moderator may have made a mistake. Either way, what's the big deal? Like getting killed in the arena, it only hurts a little bit and you will live to fight again. Yes, moderators and game owners can be unjust, but the fact they must get involved is due to those toward whom you should direct your anger... the love muffines trying to ruin your game.
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Originally posted by Grizzly
A player can deserve a warning without swearing, by causing trouble in many ways. Intentional and pervasive non-game related behavior in the arena that causes a fuss among players can justify a warning (pay attention to this Shane... love ya bud, but you have gotten off quite easy). Disruption wears many faces.
no grizzly, you're mistaken. lamer, dweeb, gangers, clueless are *all* part of online game lingo. and it's all game related. in the arenas i never go on personal attacks that don't relate to gameplay. notice your focus here... "gameplay" if i say"lol lamer ganging dweeb" that's entirely related to gameplay - taunting/smack if you will... still parts of online games.
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Originally posted by Shane
no grizzly, you're mistaken. lamer, dweeb, gangers, clueless are *all* part of online game lingo. and it's all game related. in the arenas i never go on personal attacks that don't relate to gameplay. notice your focus here... "gameplay" if i say"lol lamer ganging dweeb" that's entirely related to gameplay - taunting/smack if you will... still parts of online games.
Note my use of the word "pervasive". Even if you repeated "sheep R gud" enough times it can become disruptive. You don't really need to respond to every comment they make, do you? It feeds upon itself until a moderator asks you to stiffle it. You shouldn't blame the moderator for a mess you started, albeit for fun of the game.
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Originally posted by Grizzly
Note my use of the word "pervasive". Even if you repeated "sheep R gud" enough times it can become disruptive. You don't really need to respond to every comment they make, do you? It feeds upon itself until a moderator asks you to stiffle it. You shouldn't blame the moderator for a mess you started, albeit for fun of the game.
hardly pervasive... it's just memorable because i'm also good. if i were some sucky noname, it'd not even be noted nor remarked upon.
i'm not saying there's no lace for moderators, just sayin' they're far from perfection themselves with no apparent accountibility for when *they* might need a error msg.
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Originally posted by SOB
So, what's wrong with just emailing HTC directly?
SOB
This is a legitimate question. Sometimes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
culero
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I think the main problem was that there wasn't any way to know if it was HT giving the warning or just some retarded power-hyped teenager. Different circumstances totally in the two cases.
I think moderators should be ID'd when they moderate.
Just like on irc, operators have a special sign and get id'd when they do something. "luser was killed by operX: stfu"
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Originally posted by culero
This is a legitimate question. Sometimes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
culero
the thing is... film won't show the error msg moderator dialogue box.. screenshots will (if one has presence of mind to do so) - but there's no way to identify the moderator was. as far as we know there's no set schedule more a lasse faire style of moderators schedules.
as you can see, HTC places a great deal of trust in his moderators and i don't think he'd privately, much less publicly, acknowledge that perhaps a moderator might have overstepped their bounds. from what i gather, these moderators are hand-picked by HT(C) and being such, they are most likely long-time players with a history of being polite on ch1.
you wanna finish this exercise on your own and see where it leads you? this is a totally different way of doing things than what kesmai/EA did....
just sayin'
now, this bears repeating that there is a need and a place for moderators, however.... they're human and susceptible to errors in judgement or demeanor. the way it *appears* is that while players can get smacked for such lapses, the moderators are above reproach - cloak of secrecy and all; this does nothing but make the moderators a sub-strata of the larger community, a suspicous and mysterious one operating in the dark, as opposed to sunshine where moderators can be both supported by the community as well as leading by overt example. remaining in the dark, or without at least perhaps a #### to identifiy these people, how can anyone have faith that valid concerns will actually be heard and acted upon?
but... it's all HTC's call. i still see however that there will always be posts like this where someone feels (and quite correctly) that they were either muted or "talked to" unfairly by a moderator.
simply put there's no mechanism by which the players can develop further faith and trust in these totally anonymous moderators.
i very rarely even encounter them, yet....
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I'm going to guess that HiTech chooses his moderators.
Which means if you get a warning it's as good as getting it from HiTech.
The only thing that would happen if moderators were id's is that they'd get alot of blowback any time they tried to do anything about jerks mouthing off.
(er just read the above post by Shane, basically what he said EXCEPT that I believe that HT can moderate his moderators when they make mistakes which they will, and there is no need for that to be public any more than any of his converstions with his employees needs to be public)
Originally posted by mrsid2
I think the main problem was that there wasn't any way to know if it was HT giving the warning or just some retarded power-hyped teenager. Different circumstances totally in the two cases.
I think moderators should be ID'd when they moderate.
Just like on irc, operators have a special sign and get id'd when they do something. "luser was killed by operX: stfu"
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Originally posted by Kanth
I'm going to guess that HiTech chooses his moderators.
Which means if you get a warning it's as good as getting it from HiTech.
The only thing that would happen if moderators were id'd is that they'd get alot of blowback any time they tried to do anything about jerks mouthing off.
yes, but not necessarily. a #### identifer would provide some identification for valid concerns, as well as still protecting anonymity.
*some* concerns *are* valid... turdboy's post for example.
and before you go off on his choice of a BBS name (game name was forced to change - tboy now) and try to use that to invalidate his concern about his encounter with a moderator let me you to our very own culero.
:D
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True.
Originally posted by Shane
yes, but not necessarily. a #### identifer would provide some identification for valid concerns, as well as still protecting anonymity.
:D
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Originally posted by bounder
Heck I swore on squad channel and got an auto warning
so what's with that?
Dunno about that one Bounder. AFAIK there is no filter on squad channel at all. I know that I type all kinds of words in there that I would never be able to type on channel 1 and have never received any auto-warning or anything.
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How about on a private message??
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Yes...private messages are indeed subject to the filter. But not the squad channel.
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The other day on squad channel I tried to use the word "squeaking" to describe someone's rant and I got warned so it's definately working on squad channel
at least sometimes.
Originally posted by sling322
Dunno about that one Bounder. AFAIK there is no filter on squad channel at all. I know that I type all kinds of words in there that I would never be able to type on channel 1 and have never received any auto-warning or anything.
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Sling - thx :)
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Originally posted by Shane
yes, but not necessarily. a #### identifer would provide some identification for valid concerns, as well as still protecting anonymity.
Don't even need a number identifier for the mod. After awhile the mod's patterns could be tracked. Just give each mod message a ticket number that HTC could cross reference with a mod, the player and the message itself.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't even need a number identifier for the mod. After awhile the mod's patterns could be tracked. Just give each mod message a ticket number that HTC could cross reference with a mod, the player and the message itself.
yeah, that'd do it as well.
more work to compile and track, tho' meaning logs would have to be created and maintained.
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You sure you were on Squad channel and not on a Mission channel Kanth. I type and see a lot worse things on our squad channel than squeaking on a regular basis and have never seen a warning. Maybe its just part of the AH Gold package that was offered to the FDBs a while back.
:D
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Any moderator that comes out with that line should be stripped of his mojo powers. It only enforces the belief that moderators act with bias and favoritism and don't follow the TOS guidelines set down by HiTech.
Ack-Ack
AKAK,
Did you ever think it was HT himself .....
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I know i wasn't on mission channel but you know I could have hit the range channel instead of squad channel...it's always a possibility...however I was talking on squad channel and it was my second sentence to send...
but it's possible that I could have just keyed it wrong while I was making the cursing ;)
Originally posted by sling322
You sure you were on Squad channel and not on a Mission channel Kanth. I type and see a lot worse things on our squad channel than squeaking on a regular basis and have never seen a warning. Maybe its just part of the AH Gold package that was offered to the FDBs a while back.
:D
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Originally posted by hitech
When a monitor warns you he is explaining the rules to you. At that time you can eather addhear to them or get mutted. Its your choice.
And the resone they are not know, is very simply so I can deal with this crap, and not have them arguing with guys like you.
Funny thing is, i've never seen some one say, but that guy got away with it, with out being guilty and knowing they are guilty.
HiTech
umm... Dale.. just a quick question here...
Are there set guide lines for what the mods should or should not ignore, or is it pretty much whatever each mod decides for him/herself? And I ask because, yes, I've earned myself more than a few mutes. When I earn one I don't question it, I just shut up for 10 minutes. It's when I haven't earned one that I question it. It seems a couple of the mods like to use thier powers to hinder folks they particularly dislike. There appears to be one or two that has a real dislike for me, not that I care, but muting when it isn't warranted is crossing the line.
Then there's a situation like Turdboy posted... using the box to tell a guy to not give someone a check 6. Here you have someone who's representing you in the MA telling a new guy that XXXX doesn't deserve 6 calls. That shows someone's clearly crossing the line and letting personal feelings get in the way of thier 'job'.
While my current leave of absense is precipitated by a hardware problem (sticks died and can't replace'em yet), some folks may have noticed my flight time had been drastically reduced before my controls went tits up. This was largely because there have been days that I can't say anything on channel 1, not even answering a noob's questions, w/o getting warned or muted.
FWIW, and now I'll return to the peanut gallery.
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"Seconds later, I get a popup saying 'Chairboy you got a problem with my rules, my game?"
If you can't figure out who's talking to you from this, you have far greater problems than having your juvenile smack talking muted.
I daresay it's the same 2% of the player base that spout 75% of the drivel...........Permasquelch in 1.12!!!!!!!!!!!
just my $US.02
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Howdy,
I should clear up a couple of misconceptions that have popped up.
1. It was not Hitech sending me the popup messages. Anyone who has read the thread, including Hitech's post, should know this.
2. I was not muted. When someone else used a bunch of obscenity, I joked that if a Bishop had said it, he would have been muted. In response, the moderator said 'you got a problem with my rules, my game?' If it had been Hitech, I would have taken my licks and forgotten about it. The only reason I posted to the board is because I wanted to have a discussion about moderators who are abusing their responsibilities. As a point of fact, I have NEVER been muted, something the logs should clearly show to Hitech who has been bamboozled by the moderators that called me a pain in the butt and implied that I was a frequent disruptive influence.
Frequently asked questions:
a. Chairboy, why didn't you just email Hitech?
Answer: If I just mailed HT, then he would only hear my story. I posted it to the board to see if I was the only one who had encountered rogue moderators.
b. Chairboy, if the person said 'my rules, my game', it must have been Hitech! You're stupid for not figuring it out!
Answer: Read Hitech's post, he wasn't the moderator.
c. Chairboy, you jerk, why were you interfering with the moderators?
Answer: I wasn't. Some guy writes something really nasty on channel 1, so I joke that if a teammate had done it, he would have been muted. This prompts some moderator to take it as a personal affront to his/her honor.
Best regards, and happy holidays,
Chairboy
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Originally posted by Turdboy
I was warned by a moderator for giving a guy a "check 6".
Not the automated one but one I typed myself..1 time!
The moderator told me the guy didn't deserve one so I should stop.
I think the probabiliy that the one you gave the check 6 call is a moderator himself is very high. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken notice of your call.
Disclose his identity! :)
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He said NOT the automated one.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1240595.jpg)
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A manually triggered check 6 call is send as private message, otherwise it will not trigger the check 6 sound. I think it's that what he's talking about.
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Ccvi what he meant was that the person whom the check6 was given was not worth it in the moderators personal opinnion.
Therefore he saw fit to choose how others should treat the other players and play the game way outside the bounds HTC has defined for moderation.
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Originally posted by hitech
Well after talking to a number of modertors it apears they all hold the common perseption that Chairboy is a P.I.T.A
HiTech
Okay, what is a PITA. :confused:
And it better not be a form of bread...
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P.I.T.A = Pain in the ass
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mrsid2, i think you're right.
I wonder what happens if you type "pain in the ass" in the MA. Even if you add that some anonymous people think that someone is just that.
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IMO channel 1 is a chatroom, a chatroom with police. Personally I dont see the need for chatroom cops when we have a text filter coupled with a squelch command. If someone's spewing garbage I dont wanna hear I squelch them, If a topic I dont care for is being conversed on 1 -squelch the whole channel. I dont need any moderator coming to my aid, I can fix unwanted banter without a moderator.
But since we DO have them, I feel they should be forced to be reasonable. If I am verbally attacking someone & they are participating back, but NEITHER of us is cussing or suedo-cussing
this is a situation for the squelch command. But when the above scenario played out, the online moderator thought it best to tell me (possibly the other party as well) to "calm down" My response to "calm down" was that "im not excited or cussing, leave me alone" I was muted. So after clearing the mute, I made my text abilities known again, mute,clear,mute.clear,mute,clear--
this went on for quite some time until I was advised It would be delivered to HTC for review. Apparently i did nothing wrong because the muter stopped muting me & that was the last I ever heard.
So to summarize, IMO moderators are biased, & not necessary in the first place... between text filter & squelch command, a moderator is a waste of time & space to me. They cant protect me anymore than I can protect myself. If I squech someone ...... THEY CANT CLEAR IT!!!!!!!! NUFF SAID
Anton:cool:
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Yes PERMA-SQUELCH is needed. The best example I can give for a good reason to bring in perma-squelch........ ME!
1st runner up bkhawk, 2nd Shane.........
Anton:D
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Why use channel one for any type of verbal attack? Take it private.
I do not see the need to verbally abuse anyone for any reason. Whether it is using profanity or not is irrelevant. Verbal abuse in any form is just wrong.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Why use channel one for any type of verbal attack? Take it private....
Oh no Skuzzy, don't tell them that.
I don't need more dolts white texting me. When they do you gotta go through the hassle of explaining to eveyone that you found a tard instead of them just proving it on CH1.
F.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Why use channel one for any type of verbal attack? Take it private.
I do not see the need to verbally abuse anyone for any reason. Whether it is using profanity or not is irrelevant. Verbal abuse in any form is just wrong.
Having worn those shoes before, I'm the last guy to wanna give game staff a hard time, but this does provoke a couople of questions...
Assuming that "Verbal abuse in any form is just wrong." (which I agree with, conditioned that "abuse" implies malicious intent, i.e. not just plain old good-natured game-related taunting) why would you advise anyone to take it private? Isn't it still just as wrong? Wouldn't you sanction a player for abusing another player in private, if a legitimate complaint was documented?
Second question - I've heard it said here that HTC has reasons to not wish to implement a persistent squelch feature. I would really appreciate a cogent explanation as to why. I really believe it would address many complaints I see here in the boards. What
exactly does HTC have against the idea?
culero (take your time, just curious ;)
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Well skuzzy, that may in fact be the case- in a perfect world. But log on to MA any time day or nite, within 2 minutes you will see a personal verbal attack. In fact I would say that at least 40% of text buffer is some sort of verbal attack. So If you REALLY feel heartfilled about yer last comment, maybe we should just close channel 1. If anyone wants to talk to other side player- use private. I dont see any way to "pick & choose" who gets muted & for what without showing or being accused of Bias, or inconsistancies.
Anton
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I think you could reasonably assume that Skuzzy is talking about a discussion in private between two consenting players, which would not be disruptive so it would not have to be a moderator's (or Skuzzy's) business.
SOB
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Originally posted by SOB
I think you could reasonably assume that Skuzzy is talking about a discussion in private between two consenting players, which would not be disruptive so it would not have to be a moderator's (or Skuzzy's) business.
SOB
Oh, I'd agree that these circumstances are OK.
But its been my experience, and it seems that most posts here complaining of verbal abuse confirm, that most cases of "verbal abuse" are perceived as and/or alleged to be one-sided. That's what I was referring to.
culero
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Originally posted by anton
So If you REALLY feel heartfilled about yer last comment, maybe we should just close channel 1.
Cod, no - Channel One in some ways is the heart of the game. Community within the game is what makes the game as good as it is - otherwise why not just play vs AI?
Thing is, most folks who like to push buttons do so because they like seeing the reaction. The ones who are most often the guilty parties would therefore lose much of their reason to spew abuse if lots of their targets could simply and conveniently not see their spewage, n'est ce pas? :)
culero
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Originally posted by Silat
AKAK,
Did you ever think it was HT himself .....
In HiTech's post he says that is wasn't him, if it was he would have immediately muted him and not give him a warning.
Ack-Ack
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I have nothing against a good natured jab at others. The reason I suggest taking it to private is due to the number of players who may not realize two players know each other and are jabbing each other in fun.
In fact, I get regular complaints about this type of stuff, and, fortunately, I usually already know the players involved and see they are just joking between friends.
People that do not know that perceive it as abuse towards another player.
The system is not perfect and it will never be perfect. In a perfect situation, we would never need moderators as the radio channels would never show abusive behavior.
Eliminate abusive language, you eliminate the moderators. Seems simple enough.
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Taking it private; SOB is quite correct. I should have been clearer. Mutual agreement is assumed, but someone has to make the first step.
And yes, if aplayer sends in a screen shot of someone just being flat out abusive, I will have to deal with it, whether it is private or not.
Being private usually will cause things to tone down quicker as you will not suffer the inevitable intervention from the rest of the players online, which can serve to feed the problem and not quell it.
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The reason why people talk on ch1 is obvious; it's easy.
A privmsg requires you to type (sometimes even difficult) callsign to a channel, and by the time you get to answer chances are you're already airborne again and in risk of crashing.
Much easyer to click ch1 open and talk.. I've always wished there were an easyer method of talking in priv, like a clickable list or 'smart' buffer function for names. Even a 'reply' button would be nice if someone privmsgs you..
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I got muted but screw them. I should buy hiTeck
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What is it with some of you who feel cheated if you can't cause trouble on channel one?
There are some who if they spent the time improving their fighting skills that they do lippin off in the buffer, they would become virtual fighter pilot icons, admired throughout the world.:)
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Hey Rude, I'm an icon!!! Unfortunately, I'm the kind of icon that ends up in front of other virtual pilot's guns
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Originally posted by Rude
There are some who if they spent the time improving their fighting skills that they do lippin off in the buffer, they would become virtual fighter pilot icons, admired throughout the world.:)
i have no skills. :( i have to eke by with raw talent.
part of *why* i go off in the buffer is to hopefully egg some of them leet "skillz" people to improve their ACM to the point of evolving above being a mere slobberdonkey.
but, hey, what do i know? i'm come to the conclusion that no where does the peter principle rule the roost as it does in the virtual skies of AH - so you won't see much of me on ch1. i'll just continue to dine on slobebrdonkeys, chewing with my mouth closed. :)
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I haven't been on hardly at all in the last several months due to a crappy connection (which has finally been resolved...yeah!).
Now that I've started playing again recently (within the last couple of weeks), I find that we now have moderators? This concerns me due to the simple fact that, much like what I read in this posting, moderators in another un-named sim I used to play got the "big head", and often mucked up what was often just good natured bantering back and forth.
This posting, if it did indeed happen the way it's presented here, is a perfect example of it what I'm worried about: The online-gaming Gestapo. :confused:
Say it isn't so!
The Tuckster
How's My Flying? Call 1-800-BITEME
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/lawnd2a.gif)
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/tucksspita.jpg)
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The moderators are biased,
thats a proofed fact.
Often you can read racial statments or unbelievible political redneck-hardliner-trash-talk on chanel 1.
When you read that,do not loose control.And dont answer them
i.e. :'your talking roadkill'. Because then the moderator will awake and send you a profanity message.
When i close my eyes ,i can see a masked guy sitting in front of a monitor dressed in a pretty white cowl and a long pointed white hat.And in the background a burning cross.
And this mighty person is called moderator.
Peace on earth
Ecke