Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dago on December 21, 2002, 09:51:23 AM
-
Some of you may notice that from time to time while in a good dogfight, I will suddenly cease all manuevering and become a fat juicy target.
There is a reason for this, and its not me reaching for a beer.
A while back I built a new computer, high speed everything. Very shortly there afterwards, my old analog CH gear started causing the "dont move your controls so fast" warning and control loss that is causing me to stop manuevering. CH tech support tells me I need all new USB gear, I just haven't felt like blowing in excess of $300 to replace my current stuff.
So, for the immediate future, I am putting up with the occasional spiking and the control lockup. I am sure you will all understand, take pity on me and not shoot me down. Yeah right! :)
dago
-
I won't shoot at you...my controls will probably be locked up too if one of us is chasing the other.
:eek:
-
If we were to find ourselves on opposite sides ... fly straight and level for more than a few secs and I'll be
'ing you on chanel 1 as I watch you go down in flames. *evil grin*
Seriously tough, there are many low cost USB controllers out there. You should look in to it. I fly with a CH F-16 Combat stick USB, but ... I also have the old Scitek X35 hooked up for the throttle. You can use more than one joystick with Windows and AH.
-
Where's AKAK? I betcha he might be able to help you out on this.
culero
-
Thats when you open up with MGs only and force him to turn down his volume.
Drex
-
Man, maybe that's why I suck sooo bad, I only paid $19.95(after rebate) for my Saitek USB Cyborg. Naw, I just plain stink at dog fighting, but that makes it all the sweeter when I do get an occational kill. Would a really expensive controller make much difference?
Gofast and turn left with GAS Racing #99
-
Originally posted by gofastrlt
Would a really expensive controller make much difference?
No. A new stick may be more comfortable, or offer more features, but really when it comeas down to it, it's not all that important, provided you have a working stick with a working POV Hat, throttle, and rudder control.
Also, a new joystick is virtually guarenteed to make you a hell of a lot worse for the first dozen or so hours of flying with it.(While getting used to it)
Dago,
You might want to try adding a bit of dampening. If the spikes are quick it could stop the freezing controls.
-
Dago, with age the CH stuff will show some wear and tear, thats's the bad news.
The good news is that CH does sell parts that 'may' help you out.
My experience follows.
The lower hat on my CH FX was going haywire and that was my 6 view. I went to their websight and ordered 2 switches, they sent me 4, and I replaced the offending switch. Worked like a charm and acted like a new stick again.
My throttle was occasionally going full with no change from any movement of my throttle. I opened it up and there was a loose connection in there causing an open circuit. I tightened it up and no more full throttle when it wanted to.
Now my rudder occasionally goes hard left no matter what I do. It behaves the same as the throttle did when a connection opened and I assume I will have to open it up and do 'exploratory surgery' and fix that too.
The rudder glitch occasionally makes me do the autopilot also.
They work very well when it's 'guts' are in good shape. I venture to say it would be worth your while to investigate the dark interior of your controls.
I have a full CH setup; FX stick, Pro Throttle and Pro Rudders; none of which is USB.
Sidenote- Could I use one of those USB adapters to get my FX stick connected to USB stuff if I ever win the lottery and DO move up to USB controllers?
fuzeman
-
Originally posted by Dago
Some of you may notice that from time to time while in a good dogfight, I will suddenly cease all manuevering and become a fat juicy target.
There is a reason for this, and its not me reaching for a beer.
A while back I built a new computer, high speed everything. Very shortly there afterwards, my old analog CH gear started causing the "dont move your controls so fast" warning and control loss that is causing me to stop manuevering. CH tech support tells me I need all new USB gear, I just haven't felt like blowing in excess of $300 to replace my current stuff.
So, for the immediate future, I am putting up with the occasional spiking and the control lockup. I am sure you will all understand, take pity on me and not shoot me down. Yeah right! :)
dago
Me too, ever since I got me new machine.
However, I'm due for some new pots... that usually does the trick.
Usually it gets me on final aproach as I'm trying to scrubb off speed to land, so I hit Auto pilot, wait it out and go around.
Anyway, get some new pots, they're a since to replace. I've had my stick for years and just replace the pots every 6 months or so.
eskimo
-
Originally posted by Dago
Some of you may notice that from time to time while in a good dogfight, I will suddenly cease all manuevering and become a fat juicy target.
There is a reason for this, and its not me reaching for a beer.
A while back I built a new computer, high speed everything. Very shortly there afterwards, my old analog CH gear started causing the "dont move your controls so fast" warning and control loss that is causing me to stop manuevering. CH tech support tells me I need all new USB gear, I just haven't felt like blowing in excess of $300 to replace my current stuff.
So, for the immediate future, I am putting up with the occasional spiking and the control lockup. I am sure you will all understand, take pity on me and not shoot me down. Yeah right! :)
dago
Make sure to tell me where you're flying at, I can use all the help I can get :D
Do the controls spike when you try to calibrate in Windows or only in Aces High?
Go to Radio Shack and pick up some electrical contact cleaner and clean the contacts on the potentiometer(s).
If the controls still spike after cleaning the contacts, it could be that the potentiometers are finally starting to fail. You can call CH and order replacement potentiometers (at $12 bucks each) or get them here (http://www.magicparts.com/new/cts_potentiometers.htm) (100k linear POT215) or direct through CTS (http://www.ctscorp.com/electro/pot&trim.htm) (CTS Series 295).
If at all possible, can you try your CH gear on another computer? This is one way to help eliminate other causes like a slow game port, which also could be the problem. As you know, analog gear don't like slow game ports and unfortunately most game ports are rather slow and can cause analog controllers to spike. If you have Win98/ME, you may want to see about getting a game port to USB adaptor, like the one from Rockfire (http://www.rockfire.com.tw/new%20rockfire/pcproduct.htm). I stumbled upon this thing will still at CH and ever since then it's replaced my Gamecard 3 Auto and I swear by it and at $20 bucks it's a steal and can still be used with SpeedKeys.
CH tech support tells me I need all new USB gear,
The latest crop of CH techs unfortunately couldn't find their way out of an open room. They even tried to tell me my Jane's Combat Stick wasn't a CH product, friggin' morons. They sure went into the crapper after Jon and I left.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by fuze
Sidenote- Could I use one of those USB adapters to get my FX stick connected to USB stuff if I ever win the lottery and DO move up to USB controllers?
fuzeman
Yes you can use a gameport to USB adaptor for your ForceFX but I'm pretty sure you won't be able to use the feedback because the USB gameport will use its own driver for the stick and you won't be able to use the DX ForceFX drivers, unless AH supports legacy I-Force 1.x feedback which I don't think it does but it might. For that you'd have to ask HiTech.
ack-ack
-
Thanks for the advice guys, but been there done most all of that. Put new pots in (still had some spares on hand back from the old MF and AckAck in MOL days), tried all kinds of dampening changes, tried the USB to controller adaptor, etc.
AckAck, when I run jcenter, I get numbers averaging in the mid 400s. CH Tech weenie tells me that is way too high. You tell me if that is bad, I dont know.
Will keep working on it, but I am thinking new controllers probably gotta come down the road. Now if I just hadn't bought that new custom made flight jacket! :)
dago
-
It began last version, I thought it was the new CH drivers.
-
It began last version, I thought it was the new CH drivers.
Never thought about that, I did load the latest ones, but I still have the originals on disk. Maybe I will try going back to them.
dago
-
I simply don't use the CH drivers, just the standard Win2000 "gaming options". Works like a charm as a 10-button 3-axis joy w/hat. No problems at all.
If your contemplating on spending big bucks on a new setup, I would go for the Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS system. Supposed to be awesome. CH has a better internal design though imho. Never changed much from the original CH Flightstick.
-
Originally posted by Dago
AckAck, when I run jcenter, I get numbers averaging in the mid 400s. CH Tech weenie tells me that is way too high. You tell me if that is bad, I dont know.
dago
He is right about that. The optimal speed for a game port should be in the 115ms-130ms range. You can have it as slow as 250ms and as fast as 100ms but any slower than 250ms and you might experience spiking and lack of range movement. At 400ms you'll more likely than not experience some jitter and possibly loss of calibration or in extreme cases not being able to calibrate or having the controls not be recognized in Windows.
Ack-Ack
-
Would a really expensive controller make much difference?
No, but having a controller where you can use both hands simultaneously - a stick and a throttle - will make a huge difference. Go get yourself a Saitek X45 if you can't afford a Cougar.
And yes, you will suck even more to start with.
-
At 400ms you'll more likely than not experience some jitter and possibly loss of calibration or in extreme
So, whats the fix? New stuff? Differant input?
I am using MB gameport.
dago
-
Originally posted by Innominate
No. A new stick may be more comfortable, or offer more features, but really when it comeas down to it, it's not all that important, provided you have a working stick with a working POV Hat, throttle, and rudder control.
Hehehe... He's lying to ya gofastrlt. He just wants you to remain a big easy target. :D
-
Originally posted by Dago
So, whats the fix? New stuff? Differant input?
I am using MB gameport.
dago
I may be wrong, and AKAK can correct me if I am, but its the speed of the gameport you need to improve.
I guess that would mean a faster gameport. To achieve that may mean new hardware but again I'm not positive.
Just a two cent question from me, would overclocking the FSB speed up the gameport or would the speed increase you get by doing that be relative and not improve the specific gameport speed?
fuzeman
-
Originally posted by Dago
So, whats the fix? New stuff? Differant input?
I am using MB gameport.
dago
1) Dedicated analog game port like CH Gamecard 3 Automatic or a Thrustmaster ACM game card.
2) Game port to USB adaptor
3) USB controllers.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by fuze
I may be wrong, and AKAK can correct me if I am, but its the speed of the gameport you need to improve.
I guess that would mean a faster gameport. To achieve that may mean new hardware but again I'm not positive.
Just a two cent question from me, would overclocking the FSB speed up the gameport or would the speed increase you get by doing that be relative and not improve the specific gameport speed?
fuzeman
To speed up your game port, you'd have to replace it with a dedicated game card that has adjustable speed.
Over-clocking the FSB would be more relative than specific in speeding up the game port.
ack-ack
-
A follow up from me AKAK, concerning the Gamecard3.
I bought one a ways back, maybe 3 years, when I first started flying and tried to use it in my newest system, about 1.5 years old, and it very rarely recognized the controllers in windows. Was I doing something wrong or do you need to upgrade those every so often to accomodate the faster FSBs? I did try adjusting the speed of it but nothing seemed to work well and get it to recognize them consistantly.
Would you need system specs to answer? If so I can provide them. It was a Abit KT7A mobo using AMD processors.
I just checked my J-center and my readings are in the high 400 to low 500 range when centered. However, they seem to work OK in flight and I guess that's the main thing.
Sidenote- Do you remember 'High Flight' a kind of offshoot from CH, I assume, that sold CH hardware? I did buy my FX thru them.
I asked a recent person at CH about them and they didn't have a clue about them.
Thanks for you valuble input on our output < S >
fuzeman
-
Originally posted by fuze
A follow up from me AKAK, concerning the Gamecard3.
I bought one a ways back, maybe 3 years, when I first started flying and tried to use it in my newest system, about 1.5 years old, and it very rarely recognized the controllers in windows. Was I doing something wrong or do you need to upgrade those every so often to accomodate the faster FSBs? I did try adjusting the speed of it but nothing seemed to work well and get it to recognize them consistantly.
Would you need system specs to answer? If so I can provide them. It was a Abit KT7A mobo using AMD processors.
I just checked my J-center and my readings are in the high 400 to low 500 range when centered. However, they seem to work OK in flight and I guess that's the main thing.
Sidenote- Do you remember 'High Flight' a kind of offshoot from CH, I assume, that sold CH hardware? I did buy my FX thru them.
I asked a recent person at CH about them and they didn't have a clue about them.
Thanks for you valuble input on our output < S >
fuzeman
I finally had to retire my GC3A when I upgraded to a higher end system. The system was just too fast for the game card and I couldn't get the game card speed down to optimum levels. Swapped out the game card for a Rockfire analog to USB adaptor.
As for 'High Flight' it was a small mail-order company that was part of 'Joystick Industries' the parent company of CH. Last I heard it was shut down as part of CH's cost cutting measures a few years ago.
ack-ack
-
Thanks for the input. As I said, it seems to work ok so I'll go by the ol 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' theory of operation.
Was just asking about High Flight, their websight did go 'poof' awhile back. Just glad they didn't sell repaired or remanufactured goods as new.
I'm working on my 38 flying. I may 'challenge' you to some DA fights and make an appearance on AKAK's 'Wall of Shame' film library :)
fuzeman