Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sparks on December 23, 2002, 05:09:04 PM
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Just curious about others opinions.......
Been to see The Two Towers - think its a good film and all so this isn't about the quality of the film but here in the UK its rated 12A which means kids under 12 are allowed in with an adult. Now IMHO it is WAY to blood-thirsty for a 10 or 11 year old to see ..... or am I just getting too old??
Sparks
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Well, I saw worse under that age... but I suppose I have to agree. I went to see it today and nearby were 4 very young kids, not an adult in sight tho. They didn't seem to be that bothered by it judging by their laughter.
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You're supposed to be bothered by a mystical fictional movie?
Elves aren't real, so neither is any blood spewing from them... except for Keebler Elves, but they only bleed frosting and chocolate.
-SW
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Originally quoted by AKswulfe
You're supposed to be bothered by a mystical fictional movie?
Was thinking more of the pile of smouldering Ork bodies fore-fronted by an Orks head stuck on a spear - the spear sticking through the top of the skull ......... Or maybe Gollum tearing a rabbit in half and pulling its innards out with his teeth........ that sort of thing.
Originally quoted by Replicant
I went to see it today and nearby were 4 very young kids, not an adult in sight tho. They didn't seem to be that bothered by it judging by their laughter.
1. Poor cinema management
2. Is it just me that thinks kids are getting de-sensitised?? I remember Jaws scared the crap out of me.....
:confused: Perhaps I'm just overly protective.
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Went to see it with my 9 and 11 year old boys today.
Dont know..The rabbit thing doenst bother me at all...they have seen me clean trout and other fish..
Dont all the varios beheadings bother you more?
My kids were most bothered by the changes in the story vs the books.
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None of those creatures are real, 'cept the bunny.
There have been movies with worse... but now movie productions can have realistic portrayals by using CGI and other new innovative methods to make very realistic sequences.
This makes it seem like movies are now more gruesome, when in fact they are not. (House of the Dead, Pet Cemetary, Halloween, list goes on)
People keep saying kids are getting desensitized by movies... exactly how do they measure this and what gives them that idea?
Me thinks it's just BS hearsay.
Kind of like Rock 'n Roll... "It's the devil's music!"
-SW
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I took my 6-yr old son to see it the day after release. Everytime I watched the DVD at home for the first one he was entranced and would watch it. He's younger than his sister and she's been to movies that he couldn't see. He decided the Two Towers would be one he'd be taken to w/out her. So I took him. He watched it and was fine with it. In fact, I'd look at him with his huge tub of popcorn (I went all out this night) and he had that intense stare at the screen and the hand was moving fast from tub to mouth over and over like on auto-pilot. Point being, he seemed to really be into the movie. In the past I've made clear that movies are just pretend and either people in costumes or someone's artistry.
He also likes the last two Star Wars. What's funny about it is that he knows everyone by the color light sabre they use and not their name.
I think a parent knows what his child is capable of and not capable of.
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Two Towers ARgghhh!! After being pleased with the first one.. I was hugely disappointed by vast departure this movie was from the book. Forget worrying about taking your kids... skip the movie entirely.
Elves at Helm's Deep bah!
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I'd let any child watch it, even pre-schoolers. Nothing in LOTR is overly disturbing.
Seems like, in this day and age, more and more parents are becomming over-protective, trying to shield their children from anything that's even vaguely "bad".
Sometimes a nightmare or two can be good for the kids. I can remember having a few of those myself :)
J_A_B
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Judging the majority view here I'm out of phase with the mainstream and everyone raises their kids their own way. I just can't be happy in my own mind that its right though for them to see this stuff.
I see kids at my daughters school and neighbours kids who just relish the gore and violence in stuff - I know and they know its not real but they glory in it. I'm just not convinced its not unhealthy for thier minds.
Everyone seems so Blasee about it - I just don't get it. :confused:
A child as young as 6 ?? OK they may say "I know its not real daddy" but are their reasoning and comprehension skills that far along ?? I personally don't see it - a young mind is a very inquisitive thing and as such prone to suggestion and reinforcement. Is this the stuff we should be feeding them??
In fact, I'd look at him with his huge tub of popcorn (I went all out this night) and he had that intense stare at the screen and the hand was moving fast from tub to mouth over and over like on auto-pilot.
Pongo
Dont know..The rabbit thing doenst bother me at all...they have seen me clean trout and other fish..
Yes but not rip it open with your teeth??
Dont all the varios beheadings bother you more?
Yes but I just picked examples.
Askwulfe
People keep saying kids are getting desensitized by movies... exactly how do they measure this and what gives them that idea?
Me thinks it's just BS hearsay.
It's just my view AKSW - my view of kids I know and kids at my kids school. Not a measured thing - more a perception.
JAB
Seems like, in this day and age, more and more parents are becomming over-protective, trying to shield their children from anything that's even vaguely "bad".
I'm not saying that they shouldn't see anything JAB but there has to be a line - a line that moves with age and experience. It just seems to me that unless you are at the most liberal end of views on media content then you are instantly labeled as "over protective".
As I said I'm clearly out of step but I don't like the mainstream view.
Sparks
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"It just seems to me that unless you are at the most liberal end of views on media content then you are instantly labeled as "over protective". "
I disagree; I feel that if anything such "child protection" is becomming ever more common. "For the children" is practically the catchphrase of the times. I feel sorry for little kids who are forced to watch mind-numbing trash like Barney or Teletubbies or Sesame Street.
Each person has to make his own decisions. My opinion is based on my own experiences...when I was small, MY parents let me watch whatever the heck I wanted to and I'm no worse off for it. The most they would to is warn me about things..."you'll have nightmares if you watch that"....sometimes they were right :)
More to the point, the blood and gore level in LOTR is very very tame compared to the likes of movies such as "Friday the 13th" and "The Evil Dead" which were so common when I was younger.
I DO agree that a line has to be drawn, but I think that increasingly parents are becomming too concervative with regards to violence, and FAR too liberal in other, more important matters. If anything, pointless sex situations/crude jokes and horrible language are both more troublesome in movies/TV than violence is. I'd be more comfortable letting a child watch LOTR than an hour of the average weekly sitcoms on network TV.
J_A_B
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I personally don't see it - a young mind is a very inquisitive thing and as such prone to suggestion and reinforcement. Is this the stuff we should be feeding them??
What do you think a young mind would be prone to suggestion and reinforcement about in this movie? It's your standard Good vs Evil tale. The themes are no worse than your typical Fairy Tale or Bible Tale. Dragons, wizards, knights and kings. I would like to know just what is being suggested to the audience of Two Towers.
My son watches Animal Planet as well and has seen bears eat fish raw. He realizes that's how it's done in the wild as opposed to cartoons with the Berenstein Bears who wear coats, live in a house and cook their food. Golumn eats this way because he is a wild creature.
Good vs Evil, I like the message this movie sends.
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*SPOILER*
Not havin read the books....who exactly is Gollum? The movie hints that he was a hobbit but never really explains who/when/what. Can anyone fill me in?
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Its not a mystery in the books. so its not a spoiler.
You know that in the first movie one of the sons of the king of gondor cut the ring of saurons finger and took it as his own.
Then on the way home after the war he was ambushed beside a river by orcs. He put on the ring(to disapear) and dove into the river to escape.
The ring slipped off his finger and he was seen and killed by arrows.
Well the ring sat there for 100s and 100s of years. Only to be found by two hobbits Smeagle and Deagle while they were swimming in the river.
Smeagle liked the ring..killed deagle and then ended up slinking off into a cave for 1000 years with the ring to protect it.
The ring kept him alive way beyond his normal span of years(as it did for bilbo)
He became Gollum. They called him gollum because of the sound he makes in his thoat.
Bilbo found the ring near Gollums cave in the book the hobbit.
It is all explained quite well in the book...
As good as this movie is..its a pale shadow of the books....
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Ya Pongo has it. Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's hand... although not quite the way the movie showed it. Gil-galad with the spear Aiglos, and Elendil, with the sword Narsil, felled Sauron, but were themselves killed in so doing. It was then that lsildur cut the ring from Saurons hand.
Smeagol and Deagol were cousins... brothers maybe? Anyway Deagol finds the ring whilst fishing just like Pongo says... then murder was quickly afoot :)
Smeagol's 600 years with the ring are not well chronicled..but I think there was a lot of raw fish and the unfortunate goblin or three involved. :)
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Haven't read all the posts, but am responding anyway.:D
If you haven't seen it , go see it. Take your kids with you, and cover up their eyes when the head on the stick shows up.
The rest of the movie is A-OK. Top notch. 5 Stars.:)
Les
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J_A_B
I feel sorry for little kids who are forced to watch mind-numbing trash like Barney or Teletubbies or Sesame Street.
So do I - I'm not advocating and squeeky clean "ahhhhh lovely" world.
Each person has to make his own decisions. My opinion is based on my own experiences...when I was small, MY parents let me watch whatever the heck I wanted to and I'm no worse off for it.
Thats a phrase I hear a lot when I've had this discussion with guys at work - a close freind of ours has said the same thing to me. But sometimes I see in their kids a coldness and visciousness, a oblivious outlook on horror that I personally find disturbing.
Don't you think that maybe it's possible that your parents allowed you more access to things than they had and so your acceptance level is different to theirs. now you are allowing your kids more access and so their acceptance level will be adjusted similarly - thats what I mean about the de-sensitisation of kids.
More to the point, the blood and gore level in LOTR is very very tame compared to the likes of movies such as "Friday the 13th" and "The Evil Dead" which were so common when I was younger.
I agree to an extent but also Friday the 13th was an 18 - I wasn't watching that at 12. As a kid Clockwork Orange and Rollerball were the "shock" movies - films now considered blah - my parents would under no circumstances have let me see those.
...If anything, pointless sex situations/crude jokes and horrible language are both more troublesome in movies/TV than violence is. I'd be more comfortable letting a child watch LOTR than an hour of the average weekly sitcoms on network TV.
- here I agree with you totally but is probably where I'd need an extra flamesuit layer. :)
I'm not saying LOTR is a bad film - my daughter and I both enjoyed it - I find it a good story. I just had an issue with the censors guidance.
Puke
I think you're missing my point. I have no problem with the content of the film. As you say it is a classic good vs evil story. My point is the level the censors have set it as a guide to parents as to its graphic content. Your point about Animal planet is also fair but I, if you like, "vet" amount etc the same as any other viewing.
My point is this (if I can get it across properly) - we all know violence is a part of life "nature is red in tooth and claw" but is it necessary to expose children to that violence at full level unrestricted from early years? I don't believe so- that is my decision as a parent. So as a parent I take the censor levels as a start point for guidance - note a start point - I felt this was too liberal.
Sparks
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Sparks,
Now I am really confused about your point.
I have no problem with the content of the film.
but is it necessary to expose children to that violence at full level unrestricted from early years?
My point is the level the censors have set it as a guide to parents as to its graphic content.
as a parent I take the censor levels as a start point for guidance - note a start point - I felt this was too liberal.
Is the movie too graphic or is the censor-level too liberal? Yes, this movie deals with themes of war and death which can be touchy to some. The last thing I'd like for anyone to see is war made to be all flowers and fun...it's an ugly thing and people do die and it should never be entered into too lightly. That's great that you look out for your son's best interest. I know my son and what he can handle.
And maybe this will help you...I've seen Two Towers twice. I am my own boss and so gave myself a day off the Wednesday the movie came out and saw it alone at 3:30pm. I took my son on Thursday at 5:30pm after having seen it and knowing just what was in it. Overall, there are not a lot of scenes of gratuitous violence. My son did exclaim "ewwwwww" at Golumn's rabbit scene and then giggled. After the movie, he started asking me the background for some of the characters. He enjoyed it and I've not seen any sign for him being worse-for-the-wear after having seen it. Hopefully this encourages his enjoyment and interest in stories and tales and leads to him becoming an avid reader.
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Pongo sounds like a Hobbit name. :)
umm, parents should decide if their children see a movie or not. Ratings are just guidelines (tho R ratings must be accompanied by an adult in the US, some theaters don't enforce this though.)
Umm, I saw Alien when I was 4 or 5 (hehe, I was a sneaky kid and we had HBO.) It freaked me out and gave me a nightmare or two, but Alien is one of my all time favorite movies.
Same with Jaws (and that freaked me out as a kid too.)
I turned out ok. I think... ;)
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I just can't be happy in my own mind
that's what it's all about. The parent makes the decision.. not some general concensus on what's good/bad for them.
IMO the parent should know best.
If you feel it's ok for you kids to view a given movie, go for it.
if not, stay at home :)
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No gripes here in Asia.
Helm's Deep is a Hilton compared to our high schools. :D
I remember this one time when I got caught in high-school for taking a quick sip of a smoke and got caught by a teacher called "BloodWipe" who ripped off the stick part from a 6-foot janitor's broom and ....
*CENSORED*
*USE SOME IMAGINATION*
*FLESH AND BLOOD*
... and when I came to, I couldn't remember why I was lying on the floor. Couldn't sit on the chair straight for a week..
So.. the moral in this story is..
live in a world where everyday life violence is harsher than in the movies, and all your problems are solved!
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I'm torn on the subject. I think those are wonderful movies and book is a work of art as well, but i'll think twice before i'll let my daughter see it.
I may let her read it when she's 14 or 15. Imagination turns those things down.
Seeing the movie on the other hand is a whole different issue.
While well made, it is cruel, violent and very graphical. Good and bad is not an issue here.
I don't want my child to learn that it is noble to murder anyone in "good cause". At least at that early age.
We complain that children today are not like they used to be. They don't respect authority, elders. They don't think rationally but selfishly. But wouldn't it be partly related to the fact that children today were allowed to see the adult world for what it is ? Crass, violent, mildless and unreasonable ? Maybe they don't respect because there simply isn't anything to resepct anymore ?
I used to think that being an adult was a very misterious thing. All those things i wasn't allowed to see, hear or taste. I respected those who experianced it because they made their passage into adulthood. Once i joined that group, i found out it was way overhyped. It isn't interesting, it's dull. It isn't new, it's repetitive. Now what would happend if I knew this at ago of 7 ?
How would i feel about being intimate with my significant other had i learned all there is about sex at age of 10 ?
What if the relationships were brought down to the mind tricks level by religious watching of "friends" every day since i was 8 ?
Would i still respect adults ?
I doubt it.
Yes, we've seen some of those things, and we turned out "ok". But were we really exposed to barrage of those everyday ?
I remember seeing Jaws and being scared to toejam for weeks following. I couldn't sleep cause i saw a big shark coming out of the floor and biting me. My parents never found out. For them it must have appeared as "no problem". For me it was traumatic. I wasn't able to go into a sea for weeks after that movie.
Children aren't as tough as we are. They haven't experianced all the crap that life puts us though. They are naive and think in simple terms. For us a sight of an orc getting it's head chopped off in one cut isn't anything new or interesting. But what will it do to an 8 year old? Just because you don't see an intermediate result, it doesn't mean that it isn't there.
Just my 2 cents.
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Puke - first I respect you for watching the film alone first - Either my wife or I do the same thing and I've found not many are prepared to do it - wtg.
Second on the confusion - I don't believe the film is too graphic for an older audience - I do believe the censor rating as acceptable for under 12's is too liberal.
Fd-ski - you have said what I think better than I could ever have done - Thank you
And MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE
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It all comes down to good parenting in the end...
If you taught your kid well, they'll turn out good.. regardless of the movies they see...
If you teach your kid poorly... they'll end up.... well... there's a whole list of bad things that could be put here.
It's a movie, if you did your job as a parent.. it'll only have the effect of being interesting...
I saw Jurassic Park when I was 12... I saw a lot of war movies before then, and I saw a lot of other gruesome movies with various attrocities...
In the end it's the parent's job to make the kid understand... it shouldn't be up to laws, regulations or society to dictate to the kid the difference between real and fiction, good and bad....
And that's why the movie is somewhat regulated.. it's regulated in a way to make the parents go to the movie with the kid, so the parents can explain to the kid...
-SW
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"We complain that children today are not like they used to be. They don't respect authority, elders. They don't think rationally but selfishly. "
Which, you will find if you choose to look, is the exact sort of comments parents 100 years ago were making. I personally don't think children today are any worse than any other generation's children.
Sparks--
Remember that the PG-13 rating isn't exactly a "good for all ages" rating; rather it's literally "parents strongly cautioned" for children 13 and under. Isn't that how YOU feel? You wouldn't feel comfortable letting a 6-year-old watch it, and neither would those who gave it that rating. That is why it HAS that rating. Giving LOTR an "R" rating would mean that 16/17-year-olds couldn't go see it without older adults along. Surely you'd agree that such a situation would be silly!
Oh, and I don't think that gory movies "de-sensitizes" children from violence. Rather, I suspect that children naturally have no such sensitivity (this is why many armies favor young soldiers). It's been said many times that children are naturally cruel. Rather, sensitivity and empathy are feelings we learn as we mature, feelings that a well-made movie like LOTR can help to illustrate.
J_A_B
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kids need to see violence...what if a war starts?