Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tuborg on December 24, 2002, 09:44:31 AM
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Guys, dont overestimate or expect miracles from IL-2!! I've had it for a year now and still only play it occasionally. All though especially the weather and light effects are extremly nice, the view system and perspectiv still sucks beyond all believe!! It almost forces you to fly "cockpit off" mode, which is nice if you are a pot-head or extremly drunk, but ruins all your senses of real ACM. (unless you put wingtip smoke on which gives you a sort of orientation). Futhermore, and most importent, the ability to identify the flight path, manouevre and identity of your opponent at long and medium range is way way behind AH, even at highest grafik settings. Actually im amazed that i dont seen some more icon-off mode games in here, because as far as i can see, AH is simply the only sim out there which can handle it. You dont find anywhere such clean and good acm's then in AH, even in the biggest spit/nik furball. In IL2 almost everybody is just milling around in their über-yaks and La's, an endless turn and burn fiesta, so you will come screaming back in here and wanna hug and kiss all spit and nikkis and forgive them their dwebbery.
Cheers
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if you only have flown occassionally then you havent the experience to know who runs what.
There are lots of easy mode rooms out there but when you learn who hosts what and where the best fights are il2 is much better then you would find in ah. From acm on wards.
The 1 thing it lacks is the instant access like logging into the main has.
All the other things you mention become easier the more you play. I can easily spot the bad guys in il2 with no icons. I can get generally plane type from the profile.
The thing of it is though you can find the settings you enjoy most and stick with them. Where by AH is one size fits all.
AH is at the top of the mmopg flight games. But from a guy who flies il2 more then just occassionally to one who rarely flies all the the things you cited are based on a lack of flying time.
Also you get a greater benefit from flying with friends and squaddies who are all learning the game and sharing their tips then on your own.
edit
And from your la5fns and yak3/9u furballs there are early war df servers as well. Not everyone has all planes enabled.
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Ever wonder if that "clean ACM" part is really what it should be?
No intent of criticism, but at first I thought to myself EXACTLY what you wrote here. The stalls were more sensitive, the cockpit was more restrictive than AH, and like you said orientation was difficult because I couldn't go from observing 5 O'c to 7 O'c directly. Swiveling them left and right was very disorienting and confusing, and the limit of 6 view made it difficult for you to execute precise maneuvers as seen in AH.
In AH, you look straight behind and count to yourself "...600...500...400... NOW!", and execute the maneuver. It comes out looking clean cut, straight-from-the-textbooks, precision timing ACMs. In IL-2 this is difficult. Going for a maneuver such as an overshoot is extremely dangerous, and difficult to time because you can't just keep watching 6 with the "Linda Blair" style.
Sometimes I wonder if all these "ACMs" we are talking about were really of use to the real life pilots.. or even possible at all.. the fancy, advanced moves we execute cleanly everyday in AH... rolling scissors, super speed 190 rolls..
I still think AH is the best, but now that I've played IL-2 for some time, and got used to how you must fly in IL-2, I have to admit the margin between the 1st place and the 2nd is becoming narrower everyday.
Frankly I don't think people praise IL-2 because they think it's a new phenomenon, or maybe a miracle. It's just so much better in some of the aspects and people wish to see those in AH too, I guess....
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"Sometimes I wonder if all these "ACMs" we are talking about were really of use to the real life pilots.. or even possible at all.. the fancy, advanced moves we execute cleanly everyday in AH... rolling scissors, super speed 190 rolls.."
Well, the education level of pilots released to combat-duty was in fact very very good, if you weren't in 100 % controll of your a/c you where simply not put in a fighter unit at the first place. The literature is full of examples like this. Only if you could fly "instinctive", without thinking about this and that, you where able to have chance in combat and concentrate and the far more importent and difficult aspect of aircombat: Situation Awareness.
I still bet: put off the icons and get some better ( eerr..i mean worse :)) weather in AH, and it would be much more of the real thing then any other sim.
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well then you over look gunnery and dm. All the eye candy aside. In ah acm is almost like fighting against missile armed aircraft where manuvers begin at d1500 or so because if not the hail of bullets from the spray pray will get you.
Any 1 of those bullets no matter the angle of impact has the ability to cause real damage if not kill you.
Even with icons on and clear whether you dont see the wall of bullets thrown up from far ranges like you do in ah.
Il2 in now way replaces those massive battles we see in ah. But ah has shifted to "war winning" beyond air combat.
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The guy doesn't like Il-2, it isn't the end of the world. I don't think he's right either, but he is entitled to an opinion.
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who said he wasnt?
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just got a screaming machine (p4, ati 9700 pro, etc)
and IL2 is amazing... I liked it before but now.. woah.
it isn't instant-action, or MMOPG,, but it still rocks.
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It's really pointless to play Il2 unless you got an uber machine to crank out all of the details.
I know, I played on a less-than-uber machine... then I uberized it and now I can run at full details (everything set to excellent, S3TC + 1024 textures, Anistropic 2x, Quincunx FSAA, 1024x768x32bit) and sound is cranked up to the best it can be.
That's the only way to play Il2.. otherwise the graphics look between 1997ish and 1999ish.
Of course, then again, I have an opposing view point to anyone who says that ACM or the ability to manuever is significantly different between AH and Il2... that's simply not true.
The only difference is the complete lack of engine degredation as altitude increases, and the over-restrictive cockpit views. I will join up on a full real early war dogfight server in a second... anything else and I'll just go play AH.
When I get bored of the mindless quakeballs in AH, I go play Il2... when I get bored of the mindless quakeballs in Il2, I play Il2 coop, when I get bored of waiting around for a good host, I go back and play AH.
With FB will come rear view mirrors... so in a way, the much vaunted linda blair 6 view by "realism nuts" (snicker) will be back again.
-SW
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same experience here. gameplay and graphics.
althought I cranked my resolution up a bit further than that :)
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you really don't need such an awsome machine as most people think.
I play with most setting maxed. I run a p3 1g, and radeon 7200. not real hot for todays standards.
the key to getting Il2 to run smooth is RAM. I put 1gig of ram in this thing and have no troubles with IL2
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Fast RAM is actually the key. You need 512MB of RAM only... well unless you are running that resource/memory hog also known as Winbloz XP... but on 98 that's all you need. I have 768MB PC133 SDRAM (o/cled to 141Mhz) and the game runs pretty good unless there's a LOT of action... but if I get DDR memory (need a new mobo) then it'll be even faster.. and that'll be my next upgrade.
And I keep seeing this posted in threads, particularly here.. "if Il2 were MMP, AH wouldn't survive."
I'd bet $100 that statement wouldn't come true, and I'd win.
There's far too many holes in Il2, and chances are in FB too, to be MMP worthy. Most of all, the netcode and the system required to run it in a MMP environment won't be out for another 2 years.
-SW
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Wotan-
Didn't say you did (suggest people aren't allowed opinions); we have to be careful not to HC someone because they disagree with our opinion of our particular game.
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I dont think this is in the same vein as TC but maybe I am biased. TC case starts his own threads mostly.
Besides both ah and il2 are better then wwiiol :)
I fly the planes the same way I do in ah. It took trial an error to get my stick scaled to be able have it feel similiar. But in AH gun defense begins at and much further ranges. Things like popin 1 notch flaps in a 109 and slowly out climbing an enemy with a steeper climb angle are impossible in AH because the guy following will pull his stick straight back and spray like mad.
The way the planes behave isnt that much of a difference except in stall.
Il2 looks better but as I said in another thread the gunnery and dm are what make il2 enjoyable to me.
AH aint gonna go broke over il2. Especially focusing on the eastern front.
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Aces High -->Easy gunnery(inflated % of damage per hit)
Il2--->Far more complex damage system(hits = where/how much energy + travel through other systems)
Flight characteristics (Aces High --more predetermined feel "rails")
(Il2-- more fluid, possible greater complexity of airflow calculations) Even seen on simple yet important items such as ground roll. Torque effects/p-factor etc...
Graphics --(Aces High--- substandard compared to Il2, as well as portions of Warbirds, Fighter ace... etc)
(Il2---very "now" technology as opposed to Aces High 90's graphics)
Multiplay on the Internet-- Aces High about the same as Il2 when hosting a Head to Head (not the main arena) battle. (However Il2 beats Aces High in this aspect due to all the other combined features minus a "ground war" aspect.)
Multiplay on a Massive scale "Main Arena" -- Aces High has this... Il2 Doesnt...
Give Il2 a Dedicated robust internet Server with code that handles packet info on the server side, some change to the limits of Il2 player numbers = Death of Aces High.
Merry Christmas.. :)
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Wishful thinking, can't happen tho... of course, I don't wanna bore you with reality and the details of what makes or breaks a MMP game.
The FM still ain't good in Il2, "physics" or not.
BTW, you do a fantastic job of repeating what is written by developers without actually understanding it.
-SW
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IL 2 has problems rendering large numers of planes, unless you have a super-dupper uber system. Consider a furball like those in AH...unless you had gigs of RAM, your FPS would drop and the gameplay would be totally destroyed.
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AH has advantages over Il-2, no doubt. Most of them are related to MMOG characteristics. While being more playable over the Internet, it seems to have departed quite a lot from realism (for my taste) and is trying to please average gamers.
Il-2 would need quite a lot of work before making it a real MMOG. Comparing it to other MMOG games is wrong, it has never been developed as one (for now, at least). In its current state it is a hardcore offline sim with online ability.
While HTC was adding features like combat trim or auto take off, Oleg focused on realism and imersion and is still pushing his sim into that direction (more detailed engine management and better damage model). Quite a different approach.
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I will never go back to player hosted flight sims, unless IL2 does a dedicated arena setup like AH it will only be a diversion for me - a damn good one though.
I find AH to be less interesting and I'm genrally revolted by the MA these days, too crowded and too much land grab stuff - or so I hear cuz everytime I see the giant red bars everywhere I just log off. Admittedly I do put in a good sortie here and there but nothing like the fun I had before. Plus frankly who the hell are all those people, I misss they days when we all knew each other.
CT is ok and is more like before when air combat was the focus. Interestingy CT was supposed to get us away from "mindless furballing" but for some reason the CT mindless furballs are very good.
I wish I could like AH more now like I did before, but I suppose 2 years will wear out the new car smell of my early days here.
Nonetheless AH is a better game while IL2 is better looking game at the moment for me - either way I play Day of Defeat more than both these days.
And you know what I dont like the IL2 DM much, I think P39 shouldnt be able to eat 5 or more 30mm bullets and continue manovering and fighting no matter where they hit.
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Cannot really say whther IL-2 is nice. Played it ecently with my 1 gig 384 meg system.
Lots of choppiness. Seemed excessively sensible to control input, but maybe I can adjust that. View system horrendous. Not saying one should have Linda Blair 6 views, but the system in IL2 is not very good. It adds artificial difficulty to the game because in real life we have two eyes and 3d vision, which means a bar or something half a meter away won't obstruct an object two meters away.
I have the feeling that this is the general approach in IL2 - make it realistic. DO it by the numbers. But then forget about important issues, which results in more unstable plane, too hard gunnery, too big muzzle flames on 109, too much of a resource hog.
The tracers are divine though, and graphics are very good. Good attention to detail.
But I cannot really evaluate it til I get a much better system. 5 fps when I was attacking Russian bombers in my 190. Oddly enough the gunsight was so far to the left I could only see a small bit of it, so that mae firing a bit harder. Probably me not setting it up properly. But I need a bigger system before I can play it properly.
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Details in Il-2's graphics (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/fw190_cockpit.jpg) are really marvellous.
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The FW190 of IL2 is by far the most blind restrictid view plane in the whole game.
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I play on a 1,6 Ghz PIV, Gforce3, lots of ram, 1600x1200 bla bla bla and it is still almost impossible to see what hell is going on in the air around you, everything still seems to be mushy and I dont think that this is solved by more PC power but simply a matter of poor code or what ever. Another thing is the lack of ability to distinguish the flight caracter of the different aircrafts. In AH you can actually FEEL the differnce between for instance all the 109 types. Put yourself in a 190, and voilá: total different ball game. Fly a Spit and find out why they called it a pilots dream. Up a Mustang and FEEL to be in a Cadilac of the sky. Every single plane is modelt beautifull crisp and clean, all with their advantages and disadvantages. And this makes fighting so much more of a challenge. Il2 seems to be programmed of an apperatchnik or tecknokrat and if you dont get a hard on of a spinning tailwheel or stall slots or whatever it ain't a replacment to AH when it comes to pure and simple dogfight.
Cheers
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Can't compare the two very much IMO, with my new system I have the graphics maxed out when it comes to details and view distance etc and play it in 1600x1024 and 32bit. It's beutyfull for sure, specially the high alt contrails.
The Dammage modell is far superior to AH even though it too has its flaws (many 30mm hits in P39 as mentioned above etc).
What AH needs to become fun again is a good modern DM and less bugs then now (blackout kill pilot instantly bug and blackout stick bug etc etc etc etc etc).
I like them both now but AH is getting more and more frustrating.
Il2 controlls are way too sensitive IMO and view system sucks pretty bad.
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Controls (setup, config, sensitivity etc) in IL2 weak, AH has em beat big time in those regards
View system in IL2 suxors! AH has em beat BUT!! I even prefer ww2ol's view system to il2. Perhaps AH's views are too lax, but IL2's are too extreme, and their application is poor.
SKurj
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wil you will get used to both even the 190 with its view aint half bad.
AH has set the standard in the view system. Its a bit too liberal in my view but il2 is by far to restrictive.
Heres an aar from a few weeks ago I posted on my squad bbs.
Just came out of an il2 coop full real /padlock enabled.
Was 8 p39 ('42 variants) vrs 8 109g2s the vvs had 8 il2s as well
il2s were all ai and 2 of the 8 p39s were ai and 3 109s were ai.
Climbed at to 4k meters and formed up my rotte. No icons so i dont know who I was winged with but I was rot 2 and stuck with rot 1. I know he wasnt ai.
We were to sweep over an unpronounceable (ever see "The Road To Wellville" with "Mr. Unpronounceable") Russian village in the Crimea. Well I stayed glued to my lead as we set up our cap to the sunside of the expected vvs approach.
Soon we spotted 3 grey specks against the deck at about 2750 meters. I followed my Rottenführer's lead and slipped line astern at about 800 meters back. The vvs were stepped in echelon left but in very loose formation. Tail end charley was high.
My lead nailed tail end Charley and I saw his left wing leave the p39 and it spiralled down. I was worried about my speed so I reduce throttle and headed for the next in line. My Rottenführer zoomed up and I pressed for the next one. Slowly the p39 got bigger and bigger. I set my dive to come in his lo 6 and pull up. I expected them to break at any second but they held course and alt. I had the sun behind me but I couldnt believe they were holding steady.
I started to get nervous and I counted slowly to 5 and as the p39 filled my wind screen I let loose a hail of cannon. When they stuck the underside of the p39 the rounds exploded sending debris everywhere and as I zoomed by I saw flames shooting from behind the p39. He rolled right and headed for the deck. I knew that commie bastard would never get home and I soon got the kill meg. I zoomed straight up and tail slid. As I dove I still saw the lead p39 continuing as if he missed both his comrades being shot down.
I looked back and at my 8 o'c and saw another grey spec but I assumed it was my Lead. He was well out of the way and I had speed coming back from my dive so I headed right at the last p39.
As I began to close the 39 made a course change and I thought he saw me but he steadied on a new heading staying level. This time I came in lo 6 nice and steady and cut throttle and pulled right on his arse. I was close and I had to kick rudder to bleed e a bit or I would have collided. I slipped a bit off to the right and had a great shot and let loose at the side of his cockpit and eng. As soon as the first strikes hit him this guy split essed but he was trailing black smoke. I zoomed because I didnt want to follow him down not knowing where the other 5 p39s were.
I tried to locate the guy I was winging with but I had lost him. Maybe he went after that smoking p39.
I headed back to the cap area to see tracers flying about the clouds at about 2.5k meters It seems that a few of our 109s found the other 39s.
As I got close I saw 2 109s locked to the 6 of a 39 so I reduced throttle and opened my rad flaps and took up hi cover. Then I saw a grey dot move in to the hi 6 of the 2 109s that were engaged. I was a bit higher but he had e. As he came down on the 109s I firewalled my throttle and closed rad flaps and hit wep.
He overshot the 2 109s and went verticle. I could hardly believe my eyes as he hung there as I zoomed up behind him. I closed in and unleashed hell into his right wing and it came off at the root.
Horrido!!!! number 2 confirmed.
Again I lost site of my friends so I circled back to the village and ack was going wild on something low. The il2s!!!!! but I am very lo ammo and still dont know where the rest of the vvs fighters are.
Against my better judgement I went in and came in behind the il2s. I spotted 1 109 doing the same.
I engaged the trailing il2 and stayed below the rear gunners line of fire. The ai is pretty easy but my ammo low I didnt expect much. I closed and aimed and the oil cooler on the underside of the il2. I unloaded the last of my cannon and a few mg and got him to smoke.
At this point I try to get closer to fill him with 7mm when the white fingers of death fly past my canopy.
Damn p39!!!!!!
I go straight up expecting him to fill my canopy with that 37mm. To my surprise he shoots under me then goes up. I immel at the top and hit wep and run to the deck and head for home.
Luckily he lost me and as I approached the the airbase I get a kill msg which I thought was that il2. But when I touch down and taxy I get another.
I must have got that 1 p39 I smoked and the il2.
4 kills
Man I was stoked.............
The restrictive view system no doudt allowed that bounce of the p39s. The sun and no icons helped as well.
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There is a site that claims hyperlobby is full of viruses and remote control hacks, is this true?
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no its not true apparently theres a nutbag out there slandering hyperlobby. I dont know the details but I been using hyperlobby for a long time and have had np.
There always ubis portal and all seeing eye.
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what pisses the sh*t out of me in il2 is that whenever there's any action going on, my computer stutters :P
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On-line IL2 reminds me too much of the CFS online.
Could not get into it. I play IL2 off-line missions once in awhile. No sense in me doing that when Aces High provides excellent combat simulation for me.
Swagger
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:D
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Gotta say IL2 is pretty, but I didn't like it. I didn't like it when I saddled up on a p39 and squirted a load of 30mm into him and he kept on going. I didn't like it when I rolled into attack the bombers he was escorting and their tail gunners cut me in half almost instantly.
I found the views are extremely restrictive. A WW2 Pilot could move his head around, I can check my 6 sitting down without moving my shoulders.
I found the 190 bizarre, the guns seemed to fire sloping down the front fusalage, making it necessary to use ESP to hit anything (the 190 at speed flies nose down).
FB will be interesting, because it will be released with aircraft that are still in flight today, with aircraft that haven very documented stats. Like the P51, so it will be interesting to see the flight characteristics based on Soviet data. It may end the Soviet vs US flight data arguments either way once and for all.
Its very hard to compare an offline, or 8 player game, with a MMPOG. There is so much finesse underneath the MMPOG to make things works. For instance, the 'laser' gunnery so many people squeak about? Don't forget to take d300 for net lag off. So you d1000 hose suddenly becomes a d700 hose. And how many of you soap-boxer-preachers have squirted a few off at 700?
Oh, almost forgot, the altitude indifference. If this sim has such toejam hot physics (jbroey?) why doesn't it model the alt difference ... which coincidentally favours the LW?
Apples and oranges. I looked at IL2 for an offline sim, but found some 'inconsistancies' I didn't like so left it.
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I think the FM's in Il2 feel more like real airplanes. I only got 10hrs logged in a real plane but it feels alot more like Il2...especialy at low speed. Cut the throttle way back on a final approach in IL2 and you will loose the airplane-fast-first nasty mush then spin. Just like in a RC plane I fly and the real one I have flown. Do that here and u can glid in on u're E and land. YOU CANNOT LAND A 12,000LB AIRPLANE DEAD STICK THAT EASY LIKE YOU CAN DO HERE. Everything just feels so lazer like and precise here ....... as far as gunnery goes- sombody posted some great gun-cam footage from LW rides and it was remarkable how much damage the airplanes took and kept flying. Bombers took round after round of heavy cannon fire and still flew with no prob. After viewing the footage-I believe Il2 damage model more....
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BS.
First of all, most of the a/c in AH are not 12000lb's. Only the heaviest fighters weight in at that fully loaded. And the 10 hrs you logged in a real plane really helps compare,? You logged those hours in a P51? If you compare - what a cessna? - with the IL2 flight model and say the IL2 fm is right then somethings gotta be wrong. A WW2 fighter flies a little different to your average cessna I think.
Interviews posted here with ppl like actual Spit pilots have confirmed that the AH 'on rails'/snappy feel is fairly smack on. The mushy feel like in WB is wrong, guys who have flown these a/c in combat say so. About the only thing AH is missing is the odd turbulence bit of which IL2 does have. A fighter going 300kias does not waggle its tail like IL2 does. Take a look at this site: http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/movies.htm it has some nice tempest movies, note the 'rails' flight model.
As for the guncam footage, looking at 5-10 seconds worth of footage doesn't tell you sweet FA. You don't get to look back and see the buffs falling out of the sky, or rolling out of control because the crew is dead. What you do see is massive chunks of planes coming off, gunner positions not firing back. Those guncam movies are great, but they don't give you the full picture. You're also comparing people here saying a P39 absorbs 30mm like a sponge, with footage of B17s and B24s, very different planes.
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p39 doesnt absorb any ammo "like a sponge". I look for coops with p39s in umm as they are some of the easiest kills.
Rounds in il2 dont pentrate or detonate internally everytime.I shot an il2 from hi above and watched a 30mm round pass through the wing and detonate on the other side. Some bounce off depending on the angle of impact.
Some detonate on the surface.
The gunners in il2 bomber are far less lethal then in ah and certainly dont pick you off at 1.5k (lag be damned). As for the lag my squaddires and for big week tested all sorts of attacks with guns and rocket and verified distance between each other. Some had cable some 56k and some dsl. There was no d300 discrepancies.
I have had planes swollow up rounds in il2 but it was mostly from a poor attack angle.
The mushyness you feel in il2 is related to stick scaling. I am pretty comfortable with my stick settings in il2. However a squaddie cant get his right and hates it.
Il2 is boxed game with multiplayer component. Its still fun. As for the yaw waggle keep the ball and slip indicator centered and you rudder scaled and its not a problem. Theres no auto trim in Il2.
YMMV
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28sweep, 12hrs in a Cessna (you've done how many dead stick landings with 12hrs underneath your belt?) and flying an R/C airplane are nothing like a sleek piston engined fighter.
Wotan, I've shot guys down in AH that said "how'd you do that from D700?" I answered, "It's easier at D430"
-SW
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Yep, that east front version of JaneswwII fighters does have better damage graphics than AH .
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I will take your word for it.
But I was in a snapshot with Zigrat . He was in a yak 9t I was in a g6. He was d740 my fe at my 6. We were similiar speed and otd the deck I did a slow turn to see if he would bleed so I could extend and come back. I get nailed with a ns 37 mm that puts me right in the tower. I say damn d700? he replied "just over d700 my fe".
With the turn he had pull lead but landed the shot. I have not seen the d300 lag that some claim in my inquiries into folks who hit me at long range.
Now we can chalk that hit up to Zigrats skill in ah but he was d700 my fe and d700 his.
Scot my squaddie in tod was nailed in at d900. He said it was d900 his fe. He was off to my left line abreast and we were in a shallow dive extending away from hi enemies. The con that hit him was d970 or so my fe. Scot was hit and his entire tail flew off.
All I offer is my experience.
I ho'd an la7 in a g6 one time and hit him with 30mm. All he did was smoke. Urchin came in behind and claimed to hit a few more times with 30mm. The guys eng quit and he hit a tree and Urchin got the kill. I shot a lanc in a 152 12 times with 30mm and he only had 2 eng smoking. These are rare exceptions but they happen in ah as well. FYI my sec and primary fire button are mapped seperate and I fire them seperately as well.
like I said
YMMV.......
I am not a pilot and there are differences in ah and il2s fm but they are minor imho. Gunnery and DM its a huge difference. Things like plane form shots are much effective then ded 6 shots.
IL2 cant replace AHs instant action and multi bogey enviroment. Nor would the view system and no icons in il2 be viable for ahs main. Theres far more going in ah then we can handle on our 2d monitors. But il2 is a nice change of pace imho.
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No doubt we could easily experience different things based on lag and various other internet anomalies.. I'm just saying, I've experienced the ~100ms+ differences.
The differences in the Il2/AH FM are great- but they may not be so great when FB comes out... we shall see. But even Oleg has said himself that the demo for FB is Il2... and we have all seen (through screenshots and info releases) the big differences FB will introduce.
I definitely think Il2 is great, and it is a fun game like AH.. I don't believe either can be compared... but I like each for what they offer.
But in the FM department, Il2 is definitely lacking... and you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2. With FB it'll be different... and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to AH in the FM dept then.
-SW
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you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2.
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I must have missed something here. When I fly at 9000 meters the engine in my Yak3 feels like its producing 1/3 the power it does at 3000 meters.
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That's because of the reduction in air density as the alt increases... the actual engine's output at higher alts is the same at alts above 3000meters.
-SW
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AH gunnery model is better, ballistics and KE and HE damage and trajectory changes relative to air speed, and atmospheric density are modeled more realisticly than wb or janes Il2. AH lacks the graphical representation of damage that Janes Il2, or Janes WWII has . Dispersion of flexible guns in AH is imo too tight .
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AFAIK, AH planes fire hybrid rounds. Rounds that are AP and HE at the same time, based on ammo loadout statistics.
In il-2 different round types are modeled. Try firing into the ground and notice different effects for various types.
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and you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2. With FB it'll be different... and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to AH in the FM dept then.
-SW
Thats really never presented itself as problem as most fights are under 3000m (10,000ft). Depending on the mission I usually grab to 4-5k meter (13-16k feet) and have always ended up above the enemy. The fights end up lower at 3-5k feet (1 to 2 k meters).
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Ya my 10hrs was in a 172..ok. Never said I was a test pilot. All I'm saying-is that when you are on approach in AH u can cut throttle and just glide in every time...in any plane. Hell-even in FS2002 you can't do that on the easy settings!! Somthing is missing here with regard to low speed handling...
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I've been in coops where fighters were well above 3000meters... but the La5FN is just as fast as it is down low.. so it kinda puts a damper on any advantage the 190 could have in the game. EDIT: as a matter of fact, it doesn't appear the engine's performance degrades at all- it's got one power output: Sea Level power...
28sweep- you are using FS2002 as a benchmark for another game... what makes you think that is 100% correct?
-SW
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What's to prevent someone from playing online with a hacked FE in IL2?
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IL-2 is very beautiful, but after flying real online sims like AH, something is missing. Should IL-2 grow to real online sim at some point, that would be interesting and worth to check.
We should accuse HiTech of spoiling our boxed sim joy with this product called Aces High :)
What comes to the community, IL-2 has very good persons, but too much kids for me. Community doesn't compare to AH community. Just my thoughts.
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Well, I was with AH since early Beta - I liked it, I was obsessed, addicted... after some time its flaws were pushing through my enthusiasm, I kept on flying it because there were no alternatives (tried em all... :) ) - then IL2 & WW2O came out. IL2 wasn't playable on my machine back then so I left it, almost same with WW2O. Back to AH... squad broke apart, members leaving for several other sims... fun gone - the last reason - the boys -gone.
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Went back to IL2 - with a better rig now - and was enlightened. IL2 recreates the experience I read from pilot accounts. I use the sun and clouds for cover (sun blinding effect is hardly done in AH and neon billboard icons spoil the rest), I get so close to kill that the target fills my screen (hey, in AH I thought 300 yards was close range - that's a long range volley for me now), wingmen have to watch my blind spot (even the IL2 view system is too restricted I put it over the linda blair AH 6 view). I have to ID planes before I attack (icons...).
IL2 won't go MMOG, neither will FB... maybe a future sim from Oleg. But IL2 can offer a very delightful multiplayer experience. Just join the various online arenas like:
- DiD (Dead is Dead): virtual battlefield, every registered pilot gets a persona - if that persona dies, he's dead, along with all his records, you have to create a new one - mission have to be declared 30min prior start, at the moment 1-3 missions per day (be aware that a single misison can last up to 2.5 hours!!) - mission results based on honor system, every pilot reports for himself, then calculate into supplies, air superiority and city takings - battlefield map changes every day (along with weather, flights etc) - tanks are moved once a week (e.g. shifting of frontlines) - people even fly recon missions to find tgt worth bombing!! summary: extreme realism (no icons, full realism except padlock), great immersion (lots of AI flights etc), lots of planning involved, flight leaders have to decide/know what and where to attack.
- IOW (Ilyushin Online War): on hold at the moment, IOW2 will emerge in a few weeks - IOW developers made missions - mission start as soon as enough pilots in Hyperlobby - results automatically uploaded to IOW database - missions last up to 1 hour - preset goals/victory conditions - points distributed for mission wins and kills - online database - summary: extreme realism (not even padlock allowed), short missions, tactical aspect is more important than stratecigal thinking, mission goals are clear, focused battles.
- VEF (Virtual Eastern Front): computer generated missions - basically team-dogfight in a realistic setting - mission goals not as important - pilot go for individual kills since mission succes not weighted - full realism (padlock allowed) - more for the dogfight type of pilots - not much immersion - less teamwork than in the other arenas
All in all those arenas focus on realism and teamwork. DiD features a strong strategical parts and is very time consuming, for IOW features full realism settings at no planning effort. VEF is more for the MA pilot, still a full real realism - it's the only arena that's worth flying for a lonewulf as well, the other 2 call for at least 1 squaddie. All those arenas are flown without icons which adds a lot to their immersion I'd say. Still friendly kills are extremly rare and always worth a good story on the squad board (Hi Cobra!!). Communication is essential, plotted map mandatory. Taking all that in account the 16 player restriction doesn't hurt as hard.
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As for FM and DM. Although IL2 has flaws the overall picture it gives is much more believable than AH. The planes in IL2 differ extremly. (Late G6 is a pig whereas the G6/AS rocks - 190A4 underpowered wehreas the 190A5 is really good - and that's inbetween the same model! now don't try to say that a LaGG flies the same as FockeWulf... :) ). IL2s lack of correct high altitude FM (oh man how I hate a P39 at 4000 meters!!) is fixed in FB. The increamental DM is way ahead of AHs binary approach (either the part is in mint condition or totally kaputt), once you learned to keep your finger off the trigger long enough the gunnery gets as acustomed as in AH (just without the long range 1k kills) - 4 kills in a 109 a pretty doable - not 10 - but 4... When attacking bombers it's important to choose your targeted subsystem. Hitting the oil cooler in an IL2 is enough to put it out of order in the long run. Gunners are deadly when you are close but they won't snipe ya at 1.5k.
IL2s dogfights are about engaging and disengaging. If you are on the loosing side try to get into a position where your enemy looses sight on you and then try to get away. Dive down into a valley and use natural cover to get away - or go for the next cloud. In AH disengaging was NOT an option unless your plane was way faster! The icon lit you up miles away.
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Ok, I stop now! WW2O is another story ... :D
my facts: been in AH since early beta, happily payed for it 2 (or more?) years...
now I fly IL2 and have a WW2O account running...
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btw - some FB shots... XMas presents from the betatesters:
http://www.cfspilots.50megs.com/il2fbxmas.htm
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so... sounds like very limited planeset with axis vs allied only and lots of waiting around doing nothing... perfect if you are a LW type but not for me.
lazs