Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: KBAR on December 26, 2002, 10:52:19 PM
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I was wondering if you could add the PBY to the plane set. They could be used to rescue downed pilots in the water. Maybe give them partial credit for getting back to base with the PBY help. PBY was also used as a recon plane and did some light attacking at night used wing mounted bombs and such. It would give a more realistic alternative to bailing and just ending up back in the tower and also would give peeps a slow target to shoot at.
If you decide to do it they could be launched much like a PT boat.
If you guys like the idea bump this thread. Can you imagine the peeps hollering for PBY to pick them up and just think about having this slow lumbering plane at sea level to shoot at.
KBAR :confused: :confused: :eek:
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Why not the H8K2 Emily instead? It does all of that, plus is well defended, tough, fast (for a big plane) and can carry 6,600lbs of bombs.
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aggree karnak....emily would be nice, and give the jap planeset a boost
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ya,,but pby was produced in huge numbers and known for its tuffness,,slow,,but good bomb load,,and russians even used them,,would boost of the plane set for 3 countries with one plane,,british,,usa,,russian http://www.vpnavy.com/aircraft_pby_history.html
read down to bit of history,it could dive bomb,,even know it wasnt made for it,,lol,a pby even forced down a jap zero before,,killed tons of subs,,and even help find and stop the Japanese from invading alaska,,it was a very good plane only 167 emly made,,compared to the 4,000 cats,,its a drop in the bucket,,lol
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what about a rescue copter with two M-60 machine guns for guners
:p :D :rolleyes: :cool: :)
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Originally posted by hyena426
it was a very good plane only 167 emly made,,compared to the 4,000 cats,,its a drop in the bucket
Fine. Let's let production numbers be the sole consideration for implementing planes and vehicles in AH. So the first thing we do is disable the Ostwind, since there were only 43 of them produced, not enough to justify having them in the game. Based on production numbers, then, we're not going to see much else than Russian aircraft and tanks for the next half-dozen or so updates.
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Ya large production numbers are a pis pore reasion for adding anything and their is no precedent for aircraft inclushion based on this in AH.Espichaly since sighting these numbers realy only favors Allied countries like the US or USSR, the former has the largest planeset in AH and realy neads no deaping at present imo.
The PBY is a favorate plane of mine howeaver it would add very little to AH and be a Hanger Queen the like of which the P40B has never sean. The Emily or the Coranado would be a much better choice for a Flying boat imo both well defended and ruged and capable of packing very usefull bomb and torpedo loads. The Emily is universaly considered the Best Flying boat of the entire war and as such I am shure a front runner for this nich once HTC decides to implement it.
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Ya large production numbers are a pis pore reasion for adding anything and their is no precedent for aircraft inclushion based on this in AH.Espichaly since sighting these numbers realy only favors Allied countries like the US or USSR, the former has the largest planeset in AH and realy neads no deaping at present imo.
well it was a very good plane, read about it more,,i bet it would kill more boats in aces high then anything else,,good bomb and torpedo load,and even depcharge loads for when they add subs,,if they do,,hehe,,it was proubly one of the most loved planes in history!! it saved tons of lives,,killed tons of boats,,,its was a very good plane,,,and production was in more than 3 countries,,and used by dozens more,,can you deny that the pby was not a good plane?,,,no you cant,,because if you read about them,,you will see how loved they were,,,late models had self healing gas tanks,,better guns,,and amor protecting the pilots and gunners
slow,,but i dont think it will be a hanger queen like the kate is now!!<~~talk about a worthless jap plane to be added!!,,lol,,no front guns,,,horrible bomb load,,and slower than hell!!,,a pby would be twice the plane,,and used even more,because of its water landing abilties,,again why not add a plane that was used by all allies..heck pby cat name was givin by the brithish,,they loved the old plane too,,and used it for all sorts of missionsFine. Let's let production numbers be the sole consideration for implementing planes and vehicles in AH. So the first thing we do is disable the Ostwind
im for that,,why have a tank or plane that was hardly used compared to some thing else?,,only like 30 ar234s made,,and hardly used,,and they didnt make a damn bit of diffrence on ww2,,lol why have experimental planes and stuff before you have the front line planes? you have to addmit the front line planes should be here first,then you get the candy planes
i think othere countries need planes too,,but your going to run into a problem in the end of tring to be fair to one side or the othere,,,because in fact,,usa did produce more models of planes,,and most of them were all good,,and used by british,,russian ,,american and canada forces,,usa was such a producer of planes and tanks,,heck everyone had one,,i even think germans used a captured cargo plane,,early c47,,painted german markings on it,,and used it for halling cargo,,lol,,its hard to deny the usa a plane or russians,,because they produced them like crazy,,and they were all good planes:)
i know what your saying brady,,but i dont think any plane in aces high is collecting dust in the hanger,,every plane gets used,,lol,,besides the kate<~~that plane is a big mistake and waste of time,,lol,,the stuka is twice the plane it is even,,,,but if a flying boat is here,,should be the most popular flying boat in history!!,,the pby:)
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the problem with jap plane set is,,they didnt have very many good bombers!! there main line bomber was the betty<~~not a very good plane,,,japs sunk most of there money into ship building,,,they didnt have many long range good bombers,,emily mite of been the best they had,,but only 167 made,,it didnt make that huge of a dent,,,they were tuff plane,,but after you add the emily,,then what?,,,sooner of later the allies are going to have more planes and bombers than anyone,,because in real life,,they did have more planes,and adding experimental planes instead of front line planes,,just aint right,,like i said before,, candy planes should be last,,lets get the main planes up and flying first
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It's not the the Japanese lacked good bombers (the Ki-67 for example was quite good and even the G4M series was decent), it's that they didn't have a very good concept of what level bombing was supposed to be. The Japanese favored dropping lots of small bombs, 100 KG or so, which is why their bombers typically carried such pitiful bomb loads....it's all that was required in the design requirements.
J_A_B
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Hyena,
However neat the PBY is (and I, like brady, really like the PBY) it would be the ultimate hangar queen in AH. It is practically undefended (slightly better than a Ju88A-4) and has a top speed of 134mph. To be the top killer of boats in AH it would have to get flown, and it would not.
In comparison, the H8K2 has a top speed of 292mph, is very tough, climbs well, and is just a bit short of the B-17G in defensive fire. Oh yeah, the H8K2 carries many times the payload of the PBY.
The PBY would not get used. The H8K2 would get used. Thus the H8K2 should be the one added.
(BTW, tyr the Ki.67 in AH. Its a great bomber for use against strat targets and towns. The eight 100kg bombs do a pretty good job on those targets and the speed, durability and firepower makes the Ki.67 one of the most survivable bombers in AH)
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I'd like to see the Catalina. If submarines are introduced then let the Catalina be the only plane type that can drop buoys to mark the subs position on the map. This would indicate the last position of the sub for a set length of time. Hell it could perhaps show it's last heading too? I could see it having its uses...
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i dont see it being a hanger queen,,,and its was better defended than a ju88,,and carried just as many bombs,,and got tons of kills,,,even dive bombed at allmost 250knots,,lmao,,not too bad for a big old flying boat,,,,i beleve the emily will get more use im sure,,,but in reality game,,you would have more chance of runing into a pby than any othere flying boat in the skies,,it was tuff,,,it had good range,,,and allways seemed to pull off stunts it was never intended for,,lol<~~and is one of the most loved planes in production,,go read about the pilots and people it helped and saved,,,and the kills it got,,it wasnt a bad plane at all
a top speed of 134mph.
umm,,were did you read that?,,every were i look,,179 fully loaded,,,,but according to what everyone says,,the pby was a great plane,,tuff as nails,,hard to knock down,,and used by allmost everyone
if any othere jap bomber should be stuck in,,should be the betty,,,there flying boat is great,,but its allmost made in the numbers of a comet,,,lol,,and i guess it wasnt that great of a bomber,,had a good bomb load,,but from what i read about it,,,it mostly hit palm trees,lmao!!,,but i guess it had great defensive guns
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Replicant,
However there is no reason to do that other than to artificially add a use for the PBY. There is no rational that would let the PBY do that, and not the H8K2, or a Sunderland at the very least.
Personally I'd love to see both the PBY and H8K2. It'd be a nice reversal of roles for the USA and Japan, with the US getting the crap aircraft and the Japanese getting the capable aircraft.
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Hyena,
Do you believe that production numbers should be the governing factor in adding aircraft?
If so, what you're looking for is a USA vs. USSR sim with a couple German aircraft and a couple of British aircraft.
Personally numbers mean jack all to me, but they seem to mean an awful lot to other people.
It is true that the PBY saw heavy use. It is also true that the H8K saw heavy use. Usage or numbers means nothing in the context of the MA. Numbers mean little in the context of the CT or scenarios, but useage does mean something.
(I doubt the PBY carried 6,000lbs of bombs)
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Do you believe that production numbers should be the governing factor in adding aircraft?
yes it should be,,from the most made to the least made,,why have a ww2 sim that doesnt have the most popular planes in ww2?,,just experimental hardly used air craft,.does that make sence?,,lol
no,,and i didnt say it did carry 6,000lb,,lol<~~who said that?,,heheh,,it carries 4000lb
Personally numbers mean jack all to me, but they seem to mean an awful lot to other people.
well they should,,numbers won the war,,this is a ww2 sim,,and to truely get the feal of ww2,,it should have all the most produced and used planes that people would of really ran into,,,how many people ran into the emliy compared to the pby?,,,that is the issue,,what was really used the most,,and what wasnt,,,like the ar234,,gets lots of use in aces high,,but in real life did it?,,no it didnt,,lol,,its allmost like using fake planes,,hehehe,,,because people didnt run into a jet every time they took off in ww2,,its a fact that not every pilot in ww2 went aginst a 163 comet besides bombers in the end,,,,saying he111,,and pby,,liberator,,not in this game,,is kinda a shame,,,if they want ww2,,they have to start with real planes they used,,then break into experimental planes,,why are we going backwords? adding the experimental and hardly used planes before the more used ones?,,,thats all im saying,,numbers did count in ww2,,mite not in here,,but if they want ww2 sim,,they need to get all the most used planes in first right?
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Hyena,
Far more Tigercats and Bearcats were built during WWII than Emilies , but their usage was non-existant.
Which is more important? The Emily or the Tigercat?
(You said the PBY carried as many bombs as the Ju88, roughly 6,000lbs)
Due to its perk status, I haven't seen an Ar234 in 6 months. Frankly, it almost saw more monthly usage in WWII than it does in AH.
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I'd fly PBY a bit...(ok...my Dad flew em in Phillipines)...but ya'll are right..it would be akin to uppin a TBM from a land base....(why would ya possibly do that?)
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Sea planes could add a lot, on the right maps (esp. solomons & aleutians)...Rufe & CANT Airone would both be good to have also...was the Wild Catfish ever operational?
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The question should NOT be how many were made,
but,
Will it be used more than what else there is
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Stirred up alot of talk about the flying boats I see. I think they would be fun part to the game. If someone put there mind to it they could be used for all kind of purposes. Bump the PBY!
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PBY pic
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PBY
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pby model??? Black Cat for night missions.
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KBAR,
For the best flying boat thread that has ever been done on this BB, read this one: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60283
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VPB-33 SETS A RECORD
On the night of September 23, Lieutenant (j.g.) William B. ‘Wild Bill" Sumpter made three spectacular kills in one run. Searching the Davao Gulf on Mindanao, he discovered a large 10,000-ton Chitose-class seaplane carrier. Two destroyer escorts were refueling from the large vessel, one on each side. It was a Black Cat’s dream come true. Sumpter came in on the three helpless vessels at masthead level, releasing four bombs in a stick. The first struck a destroyer escort, the next two hit the tender, and the fourth exploded below decks in the other destroyer escort, causing three secondary blasts which threw the plane 200 feet in the air. Both escort vessels sank almost immediately. Sumpter then swung around and raked the tender with his guns. She was on fire and listing to one side, and the Cat pilot was determined to finish her off. After several strafing passes, the big ship rolled over on her side and settled in the water. Scratch three!"
VPB-33 lost a man that night when Lieutenant (j.g.) Robert W. Schuetz bombed a 10,000-ton transport at Toli Toli Bay, Celebes Island. As the Cat made its run on the ship, heavy gunfire hit the starboard propeller, blew two cylinders off the engine, and holed the wing. Schuetz hung on grimly and dropped his string of bombs, two of which struck the side of the big ship. As the plane passed overhead, however, gunfire ripped through the bottom, fatally wounding the navigator, Ensign LeRoy Flatau. The plane was shaking violently but Schuetz was able to climb to 2,000 feet where he shut down the gasping engine and feathered the prop. Ordering all unnecessary gear jettisoned, he flew the badly damaged Cat back to the tender, a distance of 550 miles on one engine. As Flip Anderson later pointed out, "we had no alternate bases to which we could return! It was the home tender or else!"
That same night, in Kolono Bay, Celebes Island Anderson hit a 10,500-ton tanker which caught fire, rolled over and sank. A gunner on another Cat operating in the same area was wounded during an attack which damaged a small freighter.
VPB-33 flew its last flights of this search-and-attack tour on the night of October 3-4. Lieutenant (j.g.) John Zubler’s aircraft was badly damaged, one crewman was killed and two others wounded during an attack on a 3,000-ton freighter. Zubler got off all his bombs, two of which hit the vessel amidships, but the cost had been high.
Wild Bill Sumpter was also out that last night. He and his crews had already sunk thirteen ships and damaged three others during the month of September and were looking for something to cap off their score. They found it in the northwest part of Celebes Island in Toli Toli Bay. That night the weather was clear as they flew along the coast with a large bright moon lighting their way. As they passed the entrance to the bay, they took a look inside and much to their surprise found two cruisers, a destroyer, and a destroyer escort lying at anchor there. All were darkened but the moon clearly illuminated them. Sumpter played it cool. Assuming that he had also been seen by the Japanese, he continued on past the mouth of the bay and then headed out to sea. There was no indication from the enemy ships that the Cat had been detected. About an hour later, Sumpter turned around and headed back. He radioed base advising them of his find and his intention to attack at 0100. If nothing was heard from the Cat thereafter, the people back at the tender would not have to guess what happened.
As they bore in on Toli Toli Bay, the pilot briefed his crew. They were going to make landfall some distance up the coast and skirt along the shore in an effort to mask their approach by the mountainous terrain. At the last minute, they would burst into the bay and hopefully catch the Japanese ships by surprise. No one was to open fire with the machine guns until Sumpter gave the word.
Everything went as planned until the final moments. The Cat approached from behind a hill at a thousand feet and Sumpter pushed the nose over about a mile and a half from one of the cruisers. But by this time they had been seen and when they were about a quarter of a mile from the drop, all four warships opened with heavy and light antiaircraft fire. It was like a thick wall which no airplane could possibly penetrate. Sumpter later observed that he could have lit a cigarette on the tracers – they were that close. Still, he held the Cat in its dive and continued his attack run down the centerline of the target ship (believed to have been a Katori-class cruiser). At 125 feet of altitude, he let go with his entire bomb load – no spacing. All of them landed on the unfortunate victim. The blast enveloped the aircraft and Sumpter thought they had been hit. But the aircraft still seemed to respond to his command. He dove for the water and headed for the entrance to the bay. Tracers and heavy gunfire continued to burst around the Cat as it skimmed the surface. Moments later it made a sharp turn, almost dipping a wing tip in the water, and ducked behind a point of land.
Checking the Cat over, Sumpter determined that it had not sustained any serious damage. He took up a position in the darkness just outside the bay and orbited while watching fires burn aboard the enemy vessel. Then, with weapons expended, he began the long flight back to the tender."
Wild Bill Sumpter’s spectacular pyrotechnic display was the icing on the cake for VPB-33. In fact, all the pilots and crewmen of that squadron had performed magnificently to amass a record of enemy tonnage sunk, destroyed, and damaged that no other Cat squadron was able to surpass. In the course of just over one month, forty-three ships totaling 103,500 tons had been sent to the bottom or otherwise destroyed. Twenty more adding up to 53,500 tons were severely damaged. A large number of miscellaneous vessels of various descriptions were also dispatched, although their tonnage is not included in the 157,000-ton total documented for this squadron during this period.
General MacArthur in a dispatch to the Seventh Fleet Commander Admiral Kinkaid praised the "recent magnificent performance" of the Black Cats. "No command in the war," he said, "has excelled the brilliance of their operations."
(The above section of text was taken from "Black Cat Raiders of WWII" by Richard C. Knott, 1982)(now out of print)
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You said the PBY carried as many bombs as the Ju88, roughly 6,000lbs)
the late model ju88 ,,could carry 5,500lb,,,but it had 20mm cannon,,,,the ju88 they used on b.o.b 4,400lb bomb load about the same as a pby,,and had the tiny gun load,,,late ju88 had better bomb load and guns,,which is not the one we got in here,,lol
what do tigercats and bearcats have to do with pby's?,,they didnt even get used in ww2,,lol any plane that didnt see service in ww2 shouldnt be used in aces high,,plain and simple,,hehe,,a pby was used in ww2,,and used by alot of countries,,i would like to see all ww2 planes,,emily,,pby,,liberator,,he111,,do27,,,he177,,,some more jap planes,,italy,,russian,,all the main line planes,,but the Japanese didnt have many good big bombers,,,the betty was a fire hazard,,and i guess they were easy to knock down compared to the hk,,and emily was there biggest and best bomber,but wasnt many made,,kinda like a king tiger tank,,lol
so if you give japs there biggest plane,,are they going to give usa there biggest ww2 bomber?,,the b29?,,,i dout it,,because its unfair to the othere sides,,,well in real life,,it was the bomber of bombers in ww2,,and produced in good numbers and made the biggest impact of the pacific war
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The one downside to that fascinating story..as translated to AH..is that there werent any enemy fighters about--PBY could fly 16 hours at a time---and much of where it went was far out of reach of anything but cv planes---if ya 5 minutes out of some La7's reach in AH it a miracle
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The maisve target sise of the PBY and it's know vulnerabality coupled with it's comparatively weak defensive arament seriously slow speed and the simple fact that better choices exist imo render it a bad choice for adation. The Emily and the Coranado are in this catagory much better choices. Out of the two possable choices the Emily is the best because it would bring so much to AH and help the Japanese side, the US plane set is very fleshed out at present and does not want for much.
I have 3 books on the PBY.
The JU 88A4 we have could cary four 500KG and 20 50KG as modeled in AH, thats: 6,600 pounds.
Ultimately it like most other plane choice debates boils down to wheatehr or not you happen to like a paticular plane or not rather than any logic behind that choice, clearly the case for the adation of the PBY is a love over logic issue, which I can understand howeaver I cant suport the adation of such a plane at present when logic dictates that their are better choices to fill that role.
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well going for sea planes how about the short sunderland.
they were big had three gun turrets and some had up to eight machine guns firreforward to attack subermarines with
this would be a heaveiley armed plain and could also carry cargo
:)
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The thing that seperates the Emily and the Coranado aside from all other flying Boats, even the sunderland is thier preformance and defensive firepower coupled with a usefull bombload.
Suderland:
213mph
Two 7.7mm MG fixed firing forward, two each in bow and dorsal turets and four in the tail turet.
4,960 pounds of bombs.
H8K:
290mph
20mm cannon in, Bow, dorsal, tail and beam positions.up to 8 or more 7.7mm MG's in various positions.
4,409 pounds of bombs.
Coronado:
223mph
50cal MG's in (2 each) bow, dorsal and tail turet's and one each in Beam hatches.
Bombload 12,000 pounds.
PBY:
179mph
Two 50cal in forward turet, one each in beam blisters and a 30cal in ventral tunel.
4,000 pound bombload.
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The maisve target sise of the PBY and it's know vulnerabality
but pby was all so known for its ablity to take punishment,,,heck i read were they would come back with half a wing and still land them,,,kinda like a b17,heheh the black cat pby's had armor plating protecting the pilots and gunners,,night time radar that picked up ships and planes,,and i guess they really kicked some butt,,,,,i read were a pby forced a jap zero down and made him land,lol,,so usa could do test on the caputred zero,,i think any ww2 plane that had great service records desurve a shot to be in here,,,i know pbys were some of the best coast planes ever made,,can anyone deny that?,,lol,,reliable,,tuff,,and loved by all there crews and people it saved,,,and dreaded by the ememy for its ability to do about anything,,from bombing boats,,to killing subs,and transporting goods,,,and killing transports,,,it did it all pretty much,,,the emily should be here too,,it was a very good and mean plane,,,,but it should be perky,,because of its limited production number and use during ww2,, less emily made than 163's,,so if its put on here,,it should have a little perky rating for main,,just like any rare ww2 bird
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Punt keep the plane in the minds of HTC.:eek:
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It is interesting to see how people completely ignore realism in order to have the most optimistic views of their pet desires.
Case in point, Hyena's view of the way the PBY would do in AH.
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Well he get's an "A" for effort and a "D" for objectivity.:)
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well,,i shouldnt have to put any effort for the pby,, the planes service record speak for its self,,lol,,both flying boats should be here,,,but like i said,,the emily should be perky because of its limited role in ww2,,and the pby be the stock flying boat..d for objectivity huh?,,lol..only object i got is for every well used plane to be here first,,before we get all the late hardly used planes,,need a little realism,,,not everyone flew a emily in ww2,,lol,and if you stuck the emily in aces high with out a perk rating,,it would be every were!! and in real life it wasnt everywere
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Originally posted by corey
what about a rescue copter with two M-60 machine guns for guners
:p :D :rolleyes: :cool: :)
huh????
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Id be great too, for using them to scout for transports and cv, was reading a book called, Pacific Hellfire.. I think thats it..yea..
Well talking about the air attack on Enitewok, japenese spotters would fly over tracking there course..and the ameracians pulle a ruse on them big time!..
Id be fun to do that..
We need submarines too..
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I think that this game needs such a plane heck both of them would be nice. The PBY attacked ships supplied bases, did recon patrols, rescued downed pilots they were doing it all. I think that if those missions were reflected in the game it would add alot to the realism. It would be fun to rescue a downed pilot that bailed in the water and I wouldnt mind flying up on the sea planes 6 either. PUNT the PBY lot of history behind this plane.:D
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I agree that a flying boat would be a great addition to AH. Sadly, the PBY just isn't that plane. Outside of scenarios the PBY simply wouldn't see any use.
Why use a PBY as a scout in the AH MA?
If you need a scout, grab an Me262. It'll do far better.
If you need a scout with range, grab a P-51, it'll do far better.
As a bomber, all the multi-engined bombers we have in AH are better than the PBY, so players would always take one of them.
Even with a top speed of 179mph the PBY would be the slowest aircraft in AH.
If HTC is going to spend the time to program flying boat code, I strongly think they should add a flying boat that is actually usable in AH. That pretty much limits it to the H8K2 or Coranado. Because of the number of American aircraft already in AH, I think the H8K2 should be the one to get the nod (besides, when Pyro listed the three aircraft he most wanted to do the H8K2 was on the list).
We have received plenty of hangar queens in the last few versions, lets request some aircraft that will actually get used.
brady,
The H8K2 can carry two 1,500kg bombs for a maximum load of 6,600lbs. At least, that's what Mitsu's data says.
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I pulled out my Mechanic of World Aircraft #7,Which is the book Mitsu scaned those images from in the Emily post, and you are right Karnak, I was so used to quoting my other refrences, I forgot to look at it. It clearly shows two 1,500KG Bombs.
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I pulled out my Mechanic of World Aircraft #7,Which is the book Mitsu scaned those images from in the Emily post, and you are right Karnak, I was so used to quoting my other refrences, I forgot to look at it. It clearly shows two 1,500KG Bombs.
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h8k was a great plane,,but it was hardly produced,,so would you be happy with it being a perky plane?,,,because it would have to be,,,heck usa should get a b29 with out perky,,sence it was usa's main bomber during pacific,,,but we all know that aint going to happen,,because its unfair that usa gets more planes,,,,well thats the proublem your allways going to run into,,usa made more planes,,and more types of planes,,that were used by all the allies,,,so should we not allow a usa plane,,just because its unfair?,,,well ww2 was unfair most of the time,,lol
pby would make a great scout,,if it had its radar ,,so it could find enemy planes before they could see them,,and report back to home,,with out even being in rang of them,,,they had very good radar,,pick up boats and planesIf you need a scout, grab an Me262. It'll do far better
why?,,in real life,,it wouldnt be that better of a scout,,no radar or anything,,,lol,,its just a killing machine,,the pby could spot trouble before it got in the middle of it,.,pby is kinda like the awax of today,,lol
h8k is a great plane,,i would love to see them both here,,but in real ww2 life,,not everyone would be in a h8k,,and if you added it,,,everyone would be flying it,,,aint very realistic,,ethere is using me262 for recon,,that wasnt its job,,it didnt have radar,,ethere did the p51,,thats the reason they used planes like pby,,they could pack it full of radar,,and it could still carry bombs to there targets and pinpoint fleets and airplanes before they got noticed,,wouldnt that be nice in main?,,,i know it would sence you cant see them till they get close to your base,,and for night fighting,,the pby would rule the air,,because it could pinpoint everyone.,,the pby is the awax of ww2 that could bomb,,and it was very importaint
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talk about a hanger queen....
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Hyena,
You clearly don't understand the perk system. The H8K2 would not be perked as its performance isn't good enough. I can only think of three bombers that do have good enough performance to warrant perking.
Aircraft are perked because if left free they will be too dominant in the MA. The one exception is the Ta152H-1, which if it had its GM-1 boost would fall in line with the other perk planes.
Look:
N1K2-J: 402 built, entered service in January, 1945: Free plane
Fw190D-9: 700 built, entered service in September, 1944: Free plane
Spitfire Mk XIV: 957 built, entered service in January, 1944: 60 Perk Points
If your understanding was correct, the most likely of those to be free would be the Spitfire Mk XIV, but in fact it is the only one perked.
As to the surface search radar, well, that's nice, but the 262 will cover even more ground in the same time simply due to its speed. I agree in reality you wouldn't use a 262 for that (but the Ar234 was designed for it) due to its short range, but the ranges in AH are so short that range becomes a non-issue.
BTW, H8Ks had surface search radar and a flight endurance of 24 hours.
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i do understand that not all production numbers mean anything in aces high,,and its ablilities would warrant perky,,because it would be the most powerfull armed bomber in the skies,,,unless they put in the b29,,lol,,,the h8k only 167 built,,and they were armed like know othere bomber,,,like five 20mm cannons,,,four 7.7mm,,that thing would be the only bomber in the sky if you didnt perk it
you wouldnt see any bomber pilots in anything else,,would carry just as big of bomb load as a b17,,with 3 times the firepower,,i would say it would warrant a perk just like the ar234 because of its production numbers,,limited use,,,and it wasnt that great of a bomber,,it preformed well,,but as a bomber it didnt do that great,,they would hit palm trees and water,lol,,a race track a few times,,lol,,,unlike the pby which killed tons of ship,,planes and even a few tanks,,lol,,and was one of the most deadly night fighters out there,,and its service record speaks for its self:)
usa radar was twice as good as japs,,and the pby would take advanatge of that,,,,and would kick butt in night fighting<~~and if you read,,very deadly at its job for being slow,,,it could pinpoint fleets for your side,,it would be a great awax for defence,,and very tuff,,i think emily should be here too,,but with a perky on it,,lol
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When I'm shot down, I do not bail but ride it onto terra-firma and then re-up asap. I don't need anyone flying around to try to "rescue" me from the MA. Also, I am not that concerned about my points or my score...and certainly not about saving 1/2 of what I may have earned on that sortie when I can just reup and gain them back instead of waiting for someone to "rescue" me in the MA to save me and my points. Rescue aircraft, and to a slightly lesser degree, night fighting aircraft, seem like a stand-alone simulation type of product and not a MMP environment role.
I refrained from commenting until now, but I just don't get the appeal here.
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rescue,,lol,,pby did lots more than just rescue,,,it was a killing machine very capable of multiple rolls,,great radar, it ruled the night skies in ww2,it was a ship killer from hell,,it could find them with radar,,then bomb the hell out of them,,,and aces high could use a good night fighting machine
Rescue aircraft, and to a slightly lesser degree, night fighting aircraft,
<~~you saying night fighting is not importaint? think you need to read the history book a little more,,because its very importaint,,and aces high doesnt have any radar machines or night fighters that could do the job like the pby or emily,,radar is everything at night
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Ya bailing in the MA is pointless even if you do 9 times outa 10 some ashole will shoot you in your chute anyway, how long would you last on the ground if you actualy made it that far.
I simply can not see Pyro adding the slowest Seaplane out of the Above choices that also has the weakest defensive guns coupled with the lighest bombload out of the above choices. no matter how it is shugar coated.
The US did not have the most plane types, Germany and Japan both had I beleave more respective types or at the very least the same number. US production in general was of course far greater. But as has been said this not a factor.
The PBY's war record is also irevelent, granted it was a realy neat plane, but this aint WW2 this is the MA and it would be dead in 2 seconds, and it would be usless in the CT as well.
I salute your effort's but your arguments seam based more in and on the love of the plane then on a platform of understanding of what may be best for the comunity.
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no matter how fancy its radar was, there's no point, EVERY aircraft and vehicle in AH has a 'neon sign radar system with laser range finder' (TM)
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Hyena,
Kbar originally posted this:
I was wondering if you could add the PBY to the plane set. They could be used to rescue downed pilots in the water. Maybe give them partial credit for getting back to base with the PBY help.
and no where do I state anything about the PBY not having been important in the real war effort,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,,instead,,,,,,,,,,,, lol,,,,,,,,I stated something more to the point,,,,,,,,,,,lol ,,,,,,,,,that it wouldn't,,,,,,,,, have much use,,,,,,,,, in the MA,,,,,,,, lol
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i bet it would have alot more uses than the kate,,stuka,,and il2,,,out carries them,,just a tad slower,,and about 5 times tuffer and armored really well,,lol,if they model it right,,it should be a tuff bird,,and landing on the sea,,and finding ships to kill,,would be a wonderfull job for the plane,,and if they gave it the black cat ability's,,it would be the night sky fighter of aces high,,and its radar does mean somthing,,its 10 times better than most craft,,,because usa radar was the shiznitts,,lol,,they would spot you before you even new they were there,,sneeky machines:)
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the pby does stir up alot of crap,,lol,,and im not arguing about it just for the sake of it,,i think it was a really good plane,,and desurves to be model right in a game,,,it had good guns,,shot down a bunch of planes in its day,,,it killed boats like no othere plane in the world,,,and its night time ablitlies made it one of the importaint ww2 craft,i think it desurves its chance,,because of production numbers and its uses,,,but i see how everyone doesnt wanna fly a slow plane,,,,im not a big fan of the plane,,but it would give us more things we could do,,,landing on water,,going ship hunting,,,and if it had kick butt radar like it should have,,it would pinpoint all the trouble in the skies,,,it would be tons of fun,,and lots funny than driving a,,kate,,or il2,,better guns,,and would do the same job with bigger payload
but i do think,,you all got some good points,,but to get realism there going to have to add every well used plane to this game,,or it wont be a ww2 sim,,it will just be what ever people wanna fly game,,lol,,because not everyone got a 262,,or comet handed to them,,,i think pby would survive if they made it as tuff as it should be,,and made it the best night hunter in the game<~~like it should be
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Originally posted by BenDover
no matter how fancy its radar was, there's no point, EVERY aircraft and vehicle in AH has a 'neon sign radar system with laser range finder' (TM)
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Well, let me go back to the discussion we had with the captain in the cabin. We said, "What are we going to look for?" He said, "There's a report with two cruisers in the Kwajalein Atoll, in the lagoon, and we want to see if we can't get one or two of those." I could see a cruiser against a PBY - it's not a very fair match. We had the advantage all over them. He couldn't see us so well but we could see him sitting down there in the water. This was to later be determined who could see who
sounds like it was killer against shipping,,,,can your lazer range finder pick up a ship more than 40mils away?,,,i dont think so,,lol,,pby could find them with ease,,thats what they were best at,,and they massed the best ship killing record in history,,,one group of them alone got a confirmed 150,000 tons in shipping
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Hyena426,
Do you play Aces High? I just searched the last two months for a score by the name "hyena426" and "hyena" and don't see anything coming up.
I'm wondering if you don't realize that in Aces High the clipboard always shows you where the enemy is and when you get within a certain proximity, a big icon appears over the enemy dot which is bright as can be in the blackest of simulated nights like a neon sign pointing you the way to your quarrie's position. And right now, enemy warships are grouped together in a Task Force and cannot be split off. You will not find a cruiser in an anemy atoll.
Basically, relying on airborne air-air radar would be a step backwards in MA unless the whole visual system in Aces High is revamped. And the oceans are not that vast in Aces High and it takes very little effort to find an enemy Task Force. So really, the PBY's radar and ability to rescue survivors would serve little purpose in the MA environment. I don't see the PBY as being other than your basic bomber that can float and there are a few bombers that can be said are needed.
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ability to rescue survivors would serve little purpose in the MA environment
who says it was going to be a recue chopper?,,hehehe,,i never said such a thing,,lol
would be the best against ships ,,because it can find them 40mils away,,,now the planes are visible on radar on plane,,but shipping is invisible,,and with out searce radar only way you can find them,,is hoping you fly over them,,,or hope a plane is flying close to the ships,,,this plane could see them and tell which way they were heading ,,and report to everyone were they were at,,while making there attack run,,it was a ship killer of all ship killers
and i dont use hyena426 as my arena name,,thx for lookin,,does it matter what my score is?,,naw,, the b boards are for anyone to make remarks on planesI'm wondering if you don't realize that in Aces High the clipboard always shows you where the enemy is and when you get within a certain proximity,
<~~yes everyone knows this,,but in main the ranges in enemy territory is horrible,,thats were the pby comes in as a awax and bomber and ship killer,,it pretty much does everything,,lol but i know the big red block tell you if some one is in that territory,,but it doesnt tell you were at,,unlike the pinpoint of a pby,,,and ship are invisible unless you run into them
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It's LASER!!!!
Laser is an acronym, it stands for:
Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
Jeez, don't they teach you guys anything in school :rolleyes:
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It's LASER!!!!
my mistake teach lol i know its laser,,just a misspelling,, i dont spell check every thing i type,,i aint so anal about that stuff:) if some one messes up,,ooh well,,no biggie as long as i can tell what they were talking about
and dont go on schooling now,,,most people in europe dont even know how long a mile is,,we had to learn metric and standard systems here,,and most high scool students in the usa, Britain and europe couldnt point out were africa is on a map,,lol,, were do they get these polls? because in my school one of first thing we had to learn about was the world,,and we all had to color little maps and put the right name's on each continent<~~first grade stuff
next time ben ill make sure to put lazer,,ooops i mean LASER:),,heheh make ya a tad bit happier?,,think you need to cheer up a little before newyears<~~dont be so serious about a little mistake bud:D
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and i dont use hyena426 as my arena name,,thx for lookin,,does it matter what my score is?,,naw,, the b boards are for anyone to make remarks on planes
Naww, I don't care what your score is. I became unsure if you fly in Aces High because you were talking about striking cruisers in atolls and that just doesn't happen here and so I looked for your score via that name only to see if you fly here. Sounds like you do. That's all that was.
I'm done w/ this topic. Take care.
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Hyena...Ya MUST be a liberal because your views arent based in reality--and the reality in AH is that an LA7 can go ANYwhere a PBY can go--in WW2...a PBY could fly 16 hours at a time...hundreds of miles out of the range of ANY sort of jap plane which might wish to shoot it down--in AH...unless the range of any given fighter is one sector..the 179 mph PBY will get hunted down like a dog and kilt--the B17 is the fiercest bomber in here..and a good P51 pilot makes it explode in 1 pass--not saying that is right...but it IS. And what IS..is what ya have to deal with. --and BTW...NO one is gonna troll around lookin fer downed pilots to pick up..the enterprising nmy pilot will orbit..wait fer PBY..and kill that too. (chute on ground has range of 6k also) If someone wishes to do long range re-con..a P38 with drop tanks can damn near fly around the map..twice as fast. End this fluff'ng thread.
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You guys get really childish. Guess we have alot of folks that are not into realism just arcade style play. Thats cool.
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i understand what they are saying,,with settings now,,they couldnt use it to its full ablities,,,but it would still be a good ship killer if its radar for getting ships worked right,,lol,,but i know,,its slow,,,just would be right to see it in a ww2 sim,,even il2 gots them,,just not for you to fly,,there ai's:(
but i know,,with currant radar settings,,you couldnt use it right,,hard to sneek in with squares the size they are now,,think it would still do good low and slow bomber with big load that could ditch in the water,,and dive bomber with big load,,,i think aces high,,needs to rework the size of there main arena,,it seems a little small,,guess i was use to the huge air warrior 3 arena,,lol so huge you could sneek in anything,,aces high arena is just a little small for the amount of people on it<~~thats my fealing about that,,lol,,some people feal diffrent,,they want doom style ww2 sim,,lol were the fighting is fast paced all the time
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AH doesnt seem to really be about night ops...maybe the PBY action you want will be in 'target for tonight' (http://www.nightbomber.com) (if is ever out...its been in the works for about 2 years, but they changed their website recently, so maybe something is happening)...& watch out for the C6N1s & He219 nightfighters