Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Golfer on December 28, 2002, 10:20:29 AM
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All Airfields had em...why not Aces High? Same thought as the rearming pad which gives you fuel and ammunition and also the mysterious invisible ordnance crew hangs new bombs and rockets under your wings. Why not have the fighter and bomber hangars, or even a single hangar designated as maintence hangars? Just an idea, but it goes something like this.
Assuming the field is fully up and operational...
Hangars can be destroyed, once the designated maint hangar or that particular hangar is destroyed, its nothing more than a building with a sunroof.
Full repairs and your plane flies like new after sitting for 60 seconds, but you can't rearm at the maintence hangar, only repairs. No silly perk costs for repairs (after all, we get unlimited $3/gallon AvGas and untold amounts of ammunition and ordnance at no charge or shortage provided ammo bunkers are up) This is a simulator, and has many great things in place. One of which is the field repairing and reloading with Vehicle Supplies. If you can resupply ground vehicles with a crate of supplies at the click of a mouse, why not aircraft back at a safe and friendly airfield?
I'm sure a huge amount of software engineering wouldn't be required for this as repair and rearm models are already in place with the Fuel Farms and GV Supply crates already in place. All that would need to be done is to designate the floor of one or all hangars as a repair area, 60 seconds wheels at rest on these floors constitute patience enough for a fully repaired arcraft.
Ordnance/fuel is its seperate issue and is already in place at the fuel farms located 1 on each runway (keep in mind every runway is in fact two runways, example a North/South runway is designated Runway 18 and Runway 36) for a total of 2 fuel farms on each strip. This is already taken care of and needs no changes.
It's an idea and I hope it catches on.
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Yes lets have maintenance hangars as long as you're prepared to sit there for 1 hour + while the crew fix your plane. The silly re-arm re-fuel pads are bad enough as it is.
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Heard this in the arena the other day, one guy was chiding another for using the rearm pad... calling him a dweeb.. I was surprised.. Now Revvin is complaining about the pads.. Is this a new trend?
I think it makes good sense, a guy who was planning to fly only about 45 minutes or so ends up flying 2 hours because it's all the same sortie.. What's wrong with that?
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Originally posted by Revvin
Yes lets have maintenance hangars as long as you're prepared to sit there for 1 hour + while the crew fix your plane. The silly re-arm re-fuel pads are bad enough as it is.
"Better be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
I'm not exactly following your line of thought or if you're using any logic at all. You wont sit an hour, you'll sit for 60 seconds. Only one minute. Nobody is going to force you to use them. I would just like to see them added to the game.
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Originally posted by Golfer
"Better be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
I'm not exactly following your line of thought or if you're using any logic at all. You wont sit an hour, you'll sit for 60 seconds. Only one minute. Nobody is going to force you to use them. I would just like to see them added to the game.
Ummmm.... why not? I mean, why not force you to use them? A player goes to a base and is assigned a plane. He goes on a mission and returns. If he wants to fly again, he must refuel his plane and get repairs. If he dies or exits his plane, he must either move to another base or choose a different plane.
How about making players taxi onto the runway also?
Maybe this will help slow the endless steam of attackers and never ending furballs.
It's ok to think outside the box.
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I think what Revvin is trying to say, is that repairs take much longer to fix than does a rearming. I have to agree. I work on and rebuild WW2 aircraft, not too very long ago, I did a rudder repair on a B-25J that had been "lightly" bumped by a Stearman. The repair involved 5 days, mostly time waiting for the glues to dry on the fabric, but atleast two days to reform and replace the trailing edge. Now assuming that you have a spare available, it takes approximately 45 mins for us to remove a rudder, and thats huffin it. Imagine the same aircraft with a fuel leak, or better yet a Mustang. That involves pulling the Center Section's Stress Panels just to get inside to see the damage. Then the tank straps and assorted plumbing must be removed to make a fix, which usually involves replacing the tank. One other repair I recently did, was repair an aileron and wing that had been "bumped" by a ground vehicle on a T-6 "Texan". That repair involved two weeks of reforming the trailing edge of the wing, repairing the wing ribs, and rebuilding and recovering the aileron. That also necessitated the wing being removed from the A/C and being placed in a jig to be assured it was straight when done.
In my eyes... a repair pad is a bad idea, not considering the time it takes to make a repair. Replane is the better option... perks or not, it is just more realistic.
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I remember when they put in the rearm pad and it was one of my favorite updates.
I think it’s cool you did repairs on WWII planes Bodhi, but like many things in AH, gameplay is a whole lot different than real life and making a option for players to continue a streak via a repair hangar just adds more incentive to disengage a fight and return to base rather than just go suicidal as it is now, with damage, as you know your sortie/streak is pretty much done.
AH makes a lot of effort to reward players in different ways for playing somewhat “un-Quake like” which in the end adds a lot to the players that enjoy this type of gameplay. Although not as apparent to the players that care less about it, they get less of the suicidal mindless fighting as well all these additions like perks, refuel pads, kill message changes and such do provide, whether they know it or not. Otherwise HTC wouldn’t have changed or added all those gameplay features I don’t think.
I’d like to see it, as a perk cost for repairs though.
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Tracking the kill streak by player in a plane type would not be too difficult for a stats page. I dunno if it would work for HTC's page, because it would be a pretty big hit generating the report... but it can be done.
It seems that allowing a way to track kill streaks via a score page is a better solution than tweaking the game in a manner that allows for totally bogus kill per sortie data... wich is what the primary manipulation of such a feature would be.
AKDejaVu
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I always thought it would be a good idea. If someone is actually willing to take the time to taxi to a hangar and spend a few perks to repair their aircraft, why not? It's no more unrealistic than typing .ef and instantly hopping into a brand new plane and roaring off.
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I think your too consumed by stats Deja. How could a system just like HTC’s new returning 2 kills for an actual kill message buffer and a older but just as viable rearming so a player can have a reason to actually survive and continue, differ from spending a few perk points to repair a gun, or other damage via the proposed mtx hangar?
It’s not an idea to pad scores, I bet 90% of AH players don’t even care about them. Staying alive and streaking however is real time, rewarding ‘now’ in-game, and more than any cold numerical stat page incentive outside of the game itself could possibly provide.
Or am I missing something?
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I've never chided anyone for re-arming or refuelling online I just think it's a silly arcadey feature only there for those wrapped up in scoring points. It takes 30 seconds to rearm and refuel which is rediculously short anyway and now you want to repair damage too, how long before AH get's floating power ups? :rolleyes:
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I could see having a repair hangar, perks or not, but I would think that using one should start you off on a new sortie - ie, once you come to a stop in a repair hangar, your sortie is over and your kills are reported. Then again, if your sortie is over anyway, I'm not sure why you would wait to repair your plane.
I guess I just think that once you get your plane shot up to a point where it's useless to try and fight with it, your sortie should be over, whether you land or crash...unless you have a death wish and want to take it back into a fight after re-arming.
SOB
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I'm sorry Revvin, but I think that Powerups is about the most retarded analogy I've heard. I, for example, don't give a crap about rank or scores, but I think the re-arm pads are great. It's nice to be able to continue your sortie and get some more kills. Pilots in WWII in some instances were re-armed/re-fueled to get them back in the air, why not here?
Hell, if you think the re-arm pads are so incredibly stupid you must just hate the ability to immediately re-plane. That's instantly puts you back up in the air. Why not make pile-its wait overnight before re-planing, or cancel their subscription automatically if they're shot down and killed.
SOB
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I've never chided anyone for re-arming or refuelling online I just think it's a silly arcadey feature only there for those wrapped up in scoring points.
Good grief.
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I'm sorry Revvin, but I think that Powerups is about the most retarded analogy I've heard. I, for example, don't give a crap about rank or scores, but I think the re-arm pads are great. It's nice to be able to continue your sortie and get some more kills. Pilots in WWII in some instances were re-armed/re-fueled to get them back in the air, why not here?
Then increase the time to re-arm and re-fuel to a couple of minutes maybe 2 or 3, still unrealistic but if you want to pad your score then sit and wait.
As for the rest of you're equally moronic post about waiting overnight, why not lets have someone stood behind us with a gun to shoot us when we get shot down..no wait that would have to be an American only option. If you want to repair then sit on the pad for an hour and wait if not replane.
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As for the rest of you're equally moronic post about waiting overnight, why not lets have someone stood behind us with a gun to shoot us when we get shot down..no wait that would have to be an American only option.
Minus?
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Its not that bad of an idea...but i just as soon land it and get a brand new shiny AC rather than wait a minute or two waiting for a flap or elevator to appear.
just my 2 cents
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So why land? Your logic is counterpoint to the entire gameplay ideal.
Nice sig though.
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Originally posted by Creamo
I think your too consumed by stats Deja. How could a system just like HTC’s new returning 2 kills for an actual kill message buffer and a older but just as viable rearming so a player can have a reason to actually survive and continue, differ from spending a few perk points to repair a gun, or other damage via the proposed mtx hangar?
Consumed by stats? Hmmm... isn't the basic premise of this suggestion purely statistics based? Keeping kill streaks allive... extending sorties... those are not statistical incentives?It’s not an idea to pad scores, I bet 90% of AH players don’t even care about them. Staying alive and streaking however is real time, rewarding ‘now’ in-game, and more than any cold numerical stat page incentive outside of the game itself could possibly provide.
Or am I missing something?
Tell me what purpose it serves other than to pad scores Creamo. Just one purpose.
If kill streaks can be tracked in another manner, then do it... because there is absolutely nothing even remotely realistic about this function and it does nothing other than extend a sortie. Absolutely nothing.
Anyone arguing that it will track kill streaks in the MA is simply wishing for a "Citabria has killed 180 straight planes" kill message which is, once again, being stats absorbed.
AKDejaVu
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Read your post again Revvin, then read mine. Tell me our posts weren't equally moronic in opposite directions. That was the point.
As for upping the re-arm time, I wouldn't be opposed to upping it to 60 seconds, but three minutes is a bit much. For some of us, re-arming has nothing to do with padding scores. It's just fun to see how many kills you can get before getting shot to hell. For me that's generally 0 to 1 so I don't get the chance to re-arm all that often.
SOB
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My post was tongue in cheek like so many others made on this board it's funny how people become so sensitive after being so brash themselves in other threads.
I wonder how many minutes it took via a WW2 refuelling rig to refuel a plane and then mechanics to re-arm. I think 2 minutes wait is fair to go on and pad your score. I have no problem with there being a wait to replane either and have suggested adding attrition and other ways to make the arena's a little more realistic it might make your virtual life a little more important to players and maybe stop kamikaze players on fields and CV's.
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lol Revvin! Booze on brother.
Now that the Eagles lost, make the Chiefs at least entertain me.
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I was thinking that it is good to see it done, with perk points to pay for repairs, because I thought it would be good to give the FHs some use, other than being just a target to jabos. People would have to steer around, taxiing into the hangars, and somehow, that seems to me it would add a lot in immersion.
If artificially padding the score is the problem with refuel/rearm and repairs, can't there be just another parameter within the scores that also calculates the number of rearm/refuel/repairs into the equation?
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Alright we're throwing around a lot of ideas and thats what this was for. I know a good bit of warbird restoration myself, personally i've had a hand an AT-6, SNJ, A-26 Invader, and soon will get to work on a DC-3 converted to civilian transport, which we will convert back to military transport. I know the intracies and time consuming labor of love warbird restoration brings. With that said...
Score...
To hell with my score and screw points. Ever since the free Air Warrior on AOL days, score has been the last thing on my mind. Fortunately for myself I've been blessed to fly with two amazing squadrons in my Online Sim Career, both of which are still flourishing. The 444th Air Mafia back when *Pak* was the CO after founding it on Brett Favre's Jersey number times 3 superbowls (theres a little tidbit most of ya didn't know) and currently I fly with the U.S.M.C. As I said, score and points are the last thing on my mind. I could care less about where I am ranked especially when the squadron is trying to accomplish something worthwhile. I'd sooner be shot down than return to base to salvage myself a few measley perk points than leave a squaddie in a situation where chances of survival are Zero, or worse.
I didn't suggest that a maintence hangar be added so I could boost my scores, my ranking, or get 1,000,000 perk points. I'd simply like to see the feature added because in my opinion, it would add another cool little thing to do and as someone said earlier, it would give the fighter and bomber hangars a purpose rather than just sit and wait for bombs to blow them to bits. I think the option would go well recieved by the entire community, whether or not they ever used the feature. Its just one more option for them (and it is especially annoying when you get those 1 ping radiator hits that happen very often in P-51's) to do one more thing to their aircraft. I wouldn't like to see a perk cost associated with repairs or maintence, as thats not the point. If you're going to do that, you may as well charger perk ponts for rearming. I feel that the more options you have, the more fun and different everything can be. I'd also like to see a few more varations for loadouts but thats a whole other chapter in the aces high saga.
Keep kicking ideas around guys! hopefully HT will listen and we'll get some new things added. Good Hunting.
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Sensitive? I'll let ya know when I'm in need of some group therapy with you...for now I think I'll be OK.
I could wait 60 seconds for anything...re-planing, re-arming, whatever. Anything more than that and it starts sucking the fun out of the game.
SOB
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Anyone arguing that it will track kill streaks in the MA is simply wishing for a "Citabria has killed 180 straight planes" kill message which is, once again, being stats absorbed.
AKDejaVu
Bit late for that :rolleyes:
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Sensitive? I'll let ya know when I'm in need of some group therapy with you
It wasn't an offer you're far to fragile a character.
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Indeed.
SOB
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Why argue the point of a maintence hangar and the time it would take in real life to repair? This is a flight sim, yes. Also a game, for all intent and purposes you are suppossed to have fun, right?
If you want to factor in rearm times and time it would take to repair a damaged bird, then how about how long it takes to manufacture one also! Realisticly you get shot down or killed you wouldn't be magically transported back to your tower and get another plane just like that!
So IMO I say bring on the maintence hangars, they will only add to the fun of the game as did the rearm pads:p
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Bit late for that :rolleyes:
The ole gunner bail bug... it happens.
Or were you talking something that wasn't bug based? I was.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
Bit late for that :rolleyes:
lol thx to the second account
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The rearm pad's the greatest thing about AH. I don't care about stats in general, but there are times when I want to stop dweebing around and actually pay some attention to keeping alive. At this point I use rearm pads to keep track of my pilot's 'life'. (Some might say that's the only life I have) :)
I can't see any way of abusing rearm points, and therefore I'm confident HTC won't be removing them.
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Sounds like it might be fun. I'd make it 60 seconds after taxiing to the hanger.
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land, get a new plane, re-up...
see.. the plane is fixed
yeah I know.. don't even go there
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how long before AH get's floating power ups?
GV's have had those for over a year.
Well they don't float... but you get the idea.
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Was just thinking about it this morning, and low and behold a search revealed this thread. I think its a great idea, and I'd like it as much as I like the rearm pads. It'd be neat too, to have a wav file mixed in while you're waiting in the hangar- air wrenches, banging on metal, muted mechanic's chat, laughter, curses, etc. I think AW? had a wav file like this when you went to the hangar screen to pick an a/c.
As far as whether its realistic or not, well, neither is screeching to a halt on the runway, exiting the plane and hopping back in a new one in just a few seconds. I don't see what the big deal is about that.
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Hey Gang ! :)
AH is my favorite online flight SIM. It is a game. Where else could I die 50 times in one night and live to tell about it? I think the repair Hangers would be a good idea if I would be able to continue my "single mission" score. I say bring 'em on ! :)
If not, Oh well, nothing lost, nothing gained. just a game.
p.s. I am NOT a points dweeb. I have and do still auger on purpose if one of my squadies need me somewhere else, or if I see a need to do something else. after all .. it's just a game, and I intend to have fun for my money .:)
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My 2 cents
Granted i think its a good idea but lets be realistic. If a real fighter landed damaged there not gonna pull up to the repair hanger and sit in the plane waiting for it to be fix , they would have to jump out and get a new plane!
So i say no to the idea !:D
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True, True .:D :D
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I have to admit I don't understand this "less realistic" perception. To me, it's less realistic to hit ".ef" on the runway and be whisked back to the tower, where I have a choice of any brand-new plane in AH, click fly and be rolling down the runway in seconds.
OTOH it seems more realistic to me that if I bring back a bent or broken bird, I have to sit around and wait while the mechanics work on it. The fact that it takes much less time than it would in real life doesn't bother me, many things are faster in AH than they would be in real life.
Of course the beautiful thing about this idea is those who like it can take advantage of it, while those who don't can just ignore the feature....
And for the Navy flyers, I'd like to see an operable deck elevator feature put in on the CVs. I think the CVs are modelled with below deck spaces, aren't they? Just land, taxi to the elevator pad, hit a key, and be lowered into the below deck hangar, where the same repair routine and sound effects could take place.
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"It takes 30 seconds to rearm and refuel which is rediculously short anyway and now you want to repair damage too, how long before AH get's floating power ups"
--Revvin
And it takes about 2 seconds to hit "tower" than "fly" again, which is why I don't use the re-arm pad. Far from being too fast (as far as AH is concerned), use of the re-arm pad actually slows down the player. I see nothing at all wrong with it--it's a useful tool for those players who like that sort of thing with absolutely no gameplay drawback.
J_A_B
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It seems like some people are trying to make a virtual flight sim game, that is impossible to make realistic, an make it realistic as possible. I don't see how we can can say "lets add this because in real life it was this way, but don't add this because it would take to long." You either make it realistic or you don't.
Now since this is a game I say add the hangars and gice the game a little more flavor. Plus it make capping your base a little moreof a challange. I mean you are not going to want to jump in a hangar that is being jabo so you might fight a little more carefully so you won't damage your ride. Now if you stillhave the problem with the whole "well just jump out your ride and grab a new one" then perhaps we can make only so many planes available at the air fields. So that way if you land your bird and and try to leave there might be a chance that the same plane may not be available. Just an idea.
Soooo....... I guess this is the part when the idea gets shot ful of holes and thrown back into the "worst thing I have ever heard pile".
Please be gentle
:D
DG
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Oboe's idea is way cool actualy
:D
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Originally posted by SOB
I'm sorry Revvin, but I think that Powerups is about the most retarded analogy I've heard. I, for example, don't give a crap about rank or scores, but I think the re-arm pads are great. It's nice to be able to continue your sortie and get some more kills. Pilots in WWII in some instances were re-armed/re-fueled to get them back in the air, why not here?
The re arm pad does not take field attrition into account............... it should IMO.
Other than that, in the MA, it is just a mechanism to assist in the development of a "kill streak" and serves no purpose.............
In scenarios it allows fields to remain closed and AC to re arm/refuel
With respect to a maintenance hanger.............
GV's can already be repaired............ when stationary and supplied are near by.
The same system could also be used for AC but not for all levels of damage................. infact a cluster of M'3 could make a temporary refuel/ refit airfield close to their spawn point.
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Originally posted by Tilt
The same system could also be used for AC but not for all levels of damage................. infact a cluster of M'3 could make a temporary refuel/ refit airfield close to their spawn point.
I like idea of requiring a second players involvement. Have Aircraft Supplies for the M3 such as they have Vehicle Supplies already.
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All good ideas but I don't agree. The more you add stuff like this, the game becomes less acurate and more arcade and in some cases, RPGish.
Next we'll have people wanting to craft and trade plane parts for lasers and photon torpedos.
Ok, maybe not that bad but let's keep some of the realism in the game.
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As for the rest of you're equally moronic post about waiting overnight, why not lets have someone stood behind us with a gun to shoot us when we get shot down..no wait that would have to be an American only option.
:confused:
Harharhar, this coming from someone with a queen and them thar princes
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I disagree BZip.
The whole idea behind the rearm pad is to allow pilots to refuel/rearm their aircraft without having to exit and re-up. It actually GIVES a sense of realism too. We all know it takes about 15 minutes to do a hot-refueling of a real WWII aircraft, but it's pretty nice to do it anyways.
Besides, if you're in a mission and you capture a base, you re-arm on the pad, you can continue to the next target. Fun stuff!
The idea of a repair pad for aircraft is just as valid. A possible functional pad could fix your aircraft in timed intervals. Fuel leaks take 10 seconds, oil 30 seconds, missing parts 1 minute.
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I have no problem with the rearm pad. If a pit crew can put 4 new tires and gas up a car in 15 seconds then I can at least draw some kind of real-life comparison. I know a plane takes longer but that's not my point.
Let me put it this way...
If I were to fly a mission, use up all my ammo and land my plane, I should not suffer any penalty. This is why I have no problem with the rearm pad.
However, If I was flying and I was unfortunate to get shot and I'm able to return to my base and land, I don't think I deserve to go to a maintenance hanger and wait a few seconds and re-up with the same plane.
Theoretically, I could fly back and catch the guy who blew half my wing off and blow him away (him being in his original flight and me being in the same plane). This doesn't make sense or sound fair to me.
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Revvin is still gay!
SOB
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well why not have it so that it does take 5 -10 minutes to fully repair a plane and while that particular plane is being repaired you have to up another plane or something...of a different type...(and i know i know now ill have the YOUR REMOVING THE PEOPLES CHOICE people are going to be on me for THAT...)
oif course if our kill streaks just kept going instead of ending when we landed or got shot down...if we did get shot down the streak could still end if we got captured of course...
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Originally posted by BZip
However, If I was flying and I was unfortunate to get shot and I'm able to return to my base and land, I don't think I deserve to go to a maintenance hanger and wait a few seconds and re-up with the same plane.
What makes you think you're not re-upping with the same plane when you exit and go to the tower, BZip? I have it on very good authority that when you exit, for example, a P-51B, then go quickly to the hangar and select the P-51B, the ground crew elves put you back into EXACTLY that same plane you just exited, except that they have magically repaired EVERYTHING that was broken on it in just seconds. I know-- I've looked over these plane's exteriors and cockpits very carefully, and I know I always get the same dang P-51B, the same dang Ki.61, the exact same P-40E, every dang time. I just don't know how they can fix it so fast! These guys change an engine out and repair busted ailerons, flaps, and fuel leaks quick as a wink and without making a sound!
Even if I transport myself to a different field, those dang little elves magically bring my same old planes along and have them all ready to go for me, good as new. I'd just like to see a little more realism with the repairs, thats all. I want to hear the ground crew cuss and listen to their hammers pound out a broken piece, I want to hear the clang of tools thrown into the bin once the repair is done...
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sounds like a good plan to me.
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If you could at least fix leaks that would be very welcome. Many times I have wished to be able to fix leaks in an otherwise perfectly fine airplane.