Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rc51 on December 28, 2002, 06:54:30 PM
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HT could really cut down oon the HO's in the game by killing both pilots involved and deducting 20 perk points !!
I think it would make them costly enough that people would do there best to avoid them.
Just an idea i am sure some of you will think im nutts.
But if you have a better idea please i would love to hear it.
Mat be Just Maybe HT will do something about them in the future?
Also the Kamakazi tactics used on the CV's.
well crap in real life a plane crashing into a ship caused some damage why not in the game?
Again I think it should cost perk points to keep it from getting out of hand but hey why not LOL.
Any one with some sensable ideas out there?\
Lets hear em.
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Head ons are actually very easy to avoid. I have never understood why everyone complains about them.
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rc51, what san said.
Ask Curval.
;)
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The lead turn makes the HO obsolete.
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I don't care if you're nuts or not but HO's are easily avoided However on the other hand according to more than one account I have read they were a part of a2a combat in ww2. Simply because you use what you can to drop the other guys out of the sky and you may not get another shot at them.
Anyway leave things with HO's as they are and learn to avoid them if possible.
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its not hard to stop HO's...and it takes 2 people to do it
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HO's are great.... errr um fine just the way they are.
I do agree with the idea about aircraft causing dammage. I mean dam if I am going in from lets say a enemy ack, I would just love to guide my 1 wing wonder into a hanger or fuel or something.
Booky
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Originally posted by Innominate
The lead turn makes the HO obsolete.
Lead Turn gets you killed if you lead it infront of me. Cut throttle and wait until you snap infront of me... That easy.
Dive under the nose of the enemy if your trying to avoid a HO.
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start a nice, smooth barrel roll when your about 1.5k away. works pretty good for me, hard to hit me.
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nothing wrong with a good old HO, avoid them if you want, its easy as every1 above me has said
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Thy stick and thy rudder pedals shall take you out of the path of the wicked HO and lead you onto the righteous path of the angles fight.
Use 'em or lose 'em. ;)
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There's an assumption that HT wants to do something about HOs... You might want to give him a call and ask first, before telling everyone what you think HT ought to do about any particular issue.
echo 1 > /dev/rant
That goes for HO's, ack lethality, moderation idiocy, etc. There's a lot of posting going on here about why one feature or another is broken, stupid, or whatever, and even more posting on what HT ought to do about it, but frankly none of that matters if HT thinks it's working as planned. As a simple purely hypothetical example, if random acts of moderation get rid of a few vocal players that are perceived to be detracting from the game, then it makes sense to keep such a system in place. Getting a moderator message saying "it's my game" makes HT's position on arena moderation very clear. The same goes for ANY game feature, from ack strength to coming up with some way to discourage headon attacks. HT will set up the game to encourage certain things, discourage other things, and whatever he doesn't care about he will leave alone.
My personal guess after playing HT's game for 7 years is that HT doesn't care very much about headons, otherwise he would have done something about it by now. I don't personally care so I've never asked, but anyone who does ought to pick up the phone and ASK before making any assumptions. In my experience, HTC is very accessable and willing to speak to players on the phone about almost any topic, so it's worth a shot.
echo 0 > /dev/rant
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Well said, Eagl.
Are you gonna copyright that or can we cut/paste it as necessary throughout the board? ;)
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LOL Toad :)
Feel free to cut-n-paste all ya want. I'm using the EPL (eagl public license) which sez that if I post something online and it's copied, I just want to be credited, and if you make any money off of it I'd like a share of the profits.
Then again, I think the EPL isn't compatible with the usage agreement for the BBS, so I guess I'll be happy if you quote it accurately :D
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Why haven't guys stopped whining about HO's yet?????????????
Dont want to be in an HO? Dont be in one. Feel free to point your plane away from the dastardly fool who plans to shoot you in the face! Give him your tail to shoot, I sure he won't mind.
Oh, whats that you say? You dont want to turn away, you want him to? Well tuff turds!
I have never, make that NEVER seen a one plane HO yet. Both planes must be pointed nose to nose to have a true HO. So, the HO whiners must be doing the very same thing.
Whats that you say? He turned into you? Well, go figure you numbskull, he choose to shoot at you rather than just let you have a free shot at him. Amazing.
GUESS WHAT homeboys! HO's were known to happen in real life, in real air to air combat. I met a group of P38 pilots from the war at a reunion they were having in a hotel I was staying at a couple years ago. When discussing tactics, I asked about HOs. They told me emphatically, THEY DID THEM ALL THE TIME! IT was a common tactic when facing superior turning German aircraft, and dont be mislead, the P38 couldnt turn worth a toejam compared to most any other fighter. They HO'd, then ran like hell.
So, instead of whining about HO's, develop some skill, learn to avoid the situation, failing that, get a crying towel to whimper into, because I am sure alot of us are tired of hearing it.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
dago
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Hear hear, Dago!
;):D
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The only real problem with HO's has nothing to do with the HO. It's the no penalty for flying like a retard and getting killed because of it thats the problem.
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WT.. there is more than one kind of lead turn.
I don't have a problem with HO's to be honest. They are the last resort of a desperate pilot. Some pilots just get desperate faster.
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Im simply saying that some people use Ho's as a tactic!
I think that to be silly.
Look if we are going to call it a sim then treat it like a sim and make it as real as possible.
I cant remember hearing of the germans or the allies using HO's as a fighting tactic.
As far as it being HTs Game ! Fair enough it is but he would not have HIS game if it was not for the loyalty of his CUSTOMERS AND THERE 14.95 PER MONTH!!!!.
There are a select few that use Ho's As a tactic because they 1) cant shoot 2) cant fly3) simply think its funny.
All I am doing is voicing an opnion thats all I doubt that Ht could give a rats bellybutton about my opnions as long as the 14.95 a mo keeps rolling in LOL.
So to those of you who seem to have very thin skin when someone voices an opinion on AH crawl back into that very long line that leads to the left or right butt cheek of HT and continue smootching his arse!
Geez You people are so silly sometimes you really do crack me up.
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Oh yeah the auto acks LOL geez H christ thats the dumbest thing in the game LOL.
Did they have that in ww2?
I think not LOL.
Been playing alot of IL2 and you know someting AH is nothing compared to the realisim in that sim!
Yes it has auto ack but you can turn the silly crap off too.
The only thing AH has over IL2 is the MA.
And half the time you get discoed anyway LOL.
Dont get me wrong Im not shootin down AH Its a great game.
I do enjoy it and Ht,s staff (skuzzy) are very helpfull online and offline.
And i can allready predict what you little minds are thinking!
( well if you dont like it leave )
And be truthfull w/ your selves if you thought that then you either did not or cant read the above.LOL
Git a grip people wqe ARE the customers and the old saying still goes THE CUSTOMER IS ALLWAYS RIGHT!
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Head ons do take some skill to survive and win. My secret? Open fire at 1.5k, fire like crazy until 700 yards and break away.
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hehehe
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This thread takes the all time award for something I cant pronounce! :)
rc51 I have a great film of four ho passes on four separate bf110s from my F4u1c. I fire at 1.1k and pull off at 800. The guys in the 110s thought their 30mm would waste that F4u but nope. Its a tactic alright. Its a tactic that some guys are good at and others show up as dweebs. I can tell you I never even took a hit after five passes. Im not saying every ho dweeb out there would miss me but I know of four that did. Hell yes Ill ho anything unless I know I have him beat anyway. Get me outnumbered and Ill ho the first chance I get. What the hell its better to die with a kill then die without one.
I know what you could be complaining about though. You come down hot from an altitude advantage and some hotshot turn and burn airplane will ho and kill you when you cant turn fast enough to avoid the ho. Well you start it and he will finish it. Even if thats not what happened that about says it all. It takes two to go ho. One guy starts it and the other guy either helps out or doesnt. End of story.
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Originally posted by rc51
...I cant remember hearing of the germans or the allies using HO's as a fighting tactic...
Then you simply have not read enough. It was a standard tactic used by the LW and Navy/Marines in the Pacific.
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well is ramming and head ons the same thing?
I am really talking about people who kakakazi inti you head on!
A good old game of chicken is cool LOL.
I can not believe that the us navy would say yes by all means take your plane and run head on into the enemy and die in the process maybe the japs but not the us navy LOL.
Head on as in playing chicken yes .
But kamakazi death rams LOL no.
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Then you simply have not read enough. It was a standard tactic used by the LW and Navy/Marines in the Pacific.
LOL did not know the LW was in the pacific LOL.
man them Germans got around huh.
Sounds to me dude like you need to crack the books LOL.
LOL just yankin your chain.
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Have the FDBs tried to recruit you yet?
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I can understand your frustraion with head-ons. In fact, I even feel they are 'low-class'. But everyone used head on attacks. Chuck Yeager was shot down in a head-on with a FW-190, and it was standard practice of the Luftwaffe to do head ons with bombers in an attempt to kill the pilot, co-pilot, navigator and bombedier (all positioned in the nose of the plane).
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RC51 I will do the research and post names of allied and axies pilots that like to go HO. I remember a story My father told me of a pilot. That had his mech. Screw with rudder so his plane crabbed. This would make it so he could HO... Also saw a Japanese pilot talk on History channel how americans would HO Thier zero's alot. But most of those would try to take off wing. Not like here where they shoot st8 at front of plane.
And i'm sure there were alot of HO in Furballs like the turkey shoot.
But like everyone else is saying It is easy to miss a HO shot. I've seen guys HO my 110, when they were 5 on 1. Believe me thats exactly how i wanted them to try for me:)
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Originally posted by rod367th
RC51 I will do the research and post names of allied and axies pilots that like to go HO.
Here's a name for you....
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HOs are the easiest thing in the world to avoid. And if you're close to the ground, you can push under his nose and hope he hits the dirt trying to squeeze the HO out of the encounter.
Personally I prefer front quarter shots. Much more satisfying.
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Originally posted by Toad
Ask Curval.;)
rc51...back in July I was seriously annoyed at having fought two bad guys into a canyon...I had all the advantages possible and dove into to finnish them, one at a time. On that dive the lead plane turned and HO'ed me.
I whined about it here and Mr. Toad pointed out that in the desparate situation the enemy planes were in that the pilot who killed me did all he could to get out of it by HOing me. It didn't make me feel any better but I couldn't argue with him. I vowed back then that I would get good at avoiding HOs and get good at killing guys in the HO.
I have succeded in the former...not really in the latter. In fact the ONLY time I get HOed now is when "I" am attempting to hit the enemy plane head-on as well.
They really are easy to avoid. When the con is just over 1.0k out I barrel roll and use a bit a rudder...they miss every time. Sometimes I will try and fire a burst at the bad guy if in a good position to do so...but, wait too long to roll and I become a victim...and I have only myself to blame.
There is no point in squeaking about it here...trust me..I know.
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Thank you, Curval.
It's better coming from one who has broken through the HO "attitude" barrier I think.
Because after all, seeing an oncoming aircraft as either an "impending HO" or an "opportunity to gain angles" is pretty much all in your attitude, isn't it?
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I like the moral high ground objections to headons, just like I do with chute shooting. It makes it all the more enjoyable when you do them.
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Americans used the head on as a valid tactic against the japs... the germans used the head on as a valid tactic against buffs... everyone used head ons when they had a chance... It is a valid tactic but.. if you don't like it.... don't participate. yep... it is your choice.
now... how exactly does Il2 make it impossible for people to head on? What "realistic" feature do they use that makes it so superior to AH as far as the head on goes?
lazs
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One time I dove from a HO against a F4u at about 15K and he pulled up before me. Next thing I saw was 2 small black objects flying past my windshield and I exploded. The F4u had dropped his eggs to engage me. I laughed so hard I spewed beer out my nose:D Oh well.......
Tactical Officer
99TH ASTAG Swift to Avenge
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Originally posted by Urchin
WT.. there is more than one kind of lead turn.
Urchin he mentioned a lead turn. I reffered to only a lead turn not all of the other possibilities. ;)
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Originally posted by DadRabit
One time I dove from a HO against a F4u at about 15K and he pulled up before me. Next thing I saw was 2 small black objects flying past my windshield and I exploded. The F4u had dropped his eggs to engage me. I laughed so hard I spewed beer out my nose:D Oh well.......
Tactical Officer
99TH ASTAG Swift to Avenge
lol, did the bombs hit you, or was it the splash damage from the bombs?
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The absolute worst solution for HO's was in AW.
Not allowing any hits to be scored from the front. It was horrible. An arena full of dweebs pulling rediculous lead turns right in front of your guns knowing you can't hit them.
Believe me one day of that and you would screaming to bring the head on to AH. Believe me it's not that bad.
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HO arent a big deal most of thime, just avoid them. They were only a real problem for a few months a while back when prolly 1/3 of the people were flying chogs. You could avoid them of course but it was more difficult since they had so much ammo and sprayed and sprayed, and they were everywhere.
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This A6M tried the dive under opponents nose to avoid ho trick on me. According to the film I fired sixteen rounds and scored four hits. Diving under the nose isnt enough you have to keep changing angles or you will still be easy to hit. When someone comes in fast and I can change angles faster I usually try to maximize the angles by getting above his gun sight and not below. Gravity makes it harder for them to change angles in that direction.
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This 51 came down with plenty of e and a lot of chances to avoid the ho. His spray and pray didnt work until after it was too late and he did no damage to me. I think he assumed the f4u I was in was equipped with .50s. Boy was he wrong. As he slipped past I could see he still had his rockets so I was right in taking the ho or he might have hit my cv.
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This A6M tried the dive under opponents nose to avoid ho trick on me.
Don't try and out fox GP's HO's with ACM!
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Originally posted by GPreddy
This A6M tried the dive under opponents nose to avoid ho trick on me. According to the film I fired sixteen rounds and scored four hits.
So you mean to tell me it doesnt take 2 people to HO on a merge? Wow........
But GP i bet you cant get those kind of shots every time someone comes under your nose can ya?
IMO only spray and pray shots, i bet you wouldnt HO if the zeke had his nose pointed in your face....
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That zeke screwed up. To avoid a HO, I recommend being somewhat offset to one side. I also like to be below my opponent, coming up into him at the merge. It doesn't take much practice to get it down right.
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You can't argue that head-on's should be removed from a historical or realism perspective.
Take the action in the South Pacific for instance. The US knew that (1) it's planes could take more of a beating than the Japanese aircraft and (2) the US had heavier armament vs. the Japanese aircraft. This lead to the head-on to be used as one of the the tactics by US pilots.
Good shots and aggressive American pilots from the beginning of the war looked for the opportunity to make a head-on attack....the US aircraft would use superior speed to gain distance and then simply turn around and head straight for the adversary. The shot had to be made in less than two seconds. In many circumstances the Japanese plane would break away and the US fighter sail past. Sometimes the Japanese fighter would either accept the one-sided duel or simply do the wrong thing. The result would be on of the most dramatic encounters in fighter combat.
The head-on attack was part of the American repertoire of basic combat techniques since being recommended by Chennault. No doubt hundreds of fragile Japanese aircraft perished under the punishing fire of American guns. Richard Bong was noted for favoring the technique.
Source: Fire in the Sky - The Air War in the South Pacific , Eric Beregerud
There's also a nice descriptive account from Charles Lindbergh of him using a the head-on attack in a P-38 when he spent several months in the South Pacific on aircraft technical advisory issues. In his account both planes were blazing away at each other head-on and he narrowly missed a head-on collision by a matter of feet while downing the Japanese aircraft.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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If you can't dodge a HO you are ACM retarded.
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WldThing attempted to reply with...
So you mean to tell me it doesnt take 2 people to HO on a merge? Wow........
But GP i bet you cant get those kind of shots every time someone comes under your nose can ya?
IMO only spray and pray shots, i bet you wouldnt HO if the zeke had his nose pointed in your face....
Obviously it was a tracking shot and not an ho. Unless the guy on the other end tries something other then a straight line I will hit him pretty easily wldthing. I dont think four out of sixteen shots qualifies as spray and pray but yes I would ho a zeke depending on the situation. If I cant get a good shot outside of 700 yards or so no I wont.
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Originally posted by GPreddy
Unless the guy on the other end tries something other then a straight line I will hit him pretty easily wldthing.
So if i do one of my HO counters you will be able to kill me in my attempt to do so?
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Originally posted by rc51
well is ramming and head ons the same thing?
I am really talking about people who kakakazi inti you head on!
A good old game of chicken is cool LOL.
I can not believe that the us navy would say yes by all means take your plane and run head on into the enemy and die in the process maybe the japs but not the us navy LOL.
Head on as in playing chicken yes .
But kamakazi death rams LOL no.
LMAO I have yet to be in a situation where I was kamakazied ina headon intentionally. You think its easy to intentionally collide with another aircraft here? Try it sometime
You would see alot less HOs if real lives were at stake. Want to learn how to avoide that collision? Well just take that force feedback stick and rewire it to your chair so when you crash or collide with something you get a nice JOLT of electricity.
Hmmmm ......I may just have something there. :D
Drediock
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S!
What makes differens in real life HO and Aces High HO is lag.
How To Avoid HO by Lephturn (http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/hodefense.htm).
Get over it
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HT could really cut down oon the HO's in the game by killing both pilots involved and deducting 20 perk points !!
Whining on the BBS is first-step. Modifying your tactics to prevent yourself from getting into a head-on collision situation is second. It's actually quite easy to do, but since this is a game, most people tend to push things a wee bit close.
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No wldthing what I am saying is the a6m set a line and then held a straight course making it easy to hit him. He would have been better off trying to go ho. At least then he would have a shot.