Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on December 29, 2002, 10:43:24 AM
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And the Whiner is......
Rude
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: 13th TAS
Posts:
Hey....I have an idea!!!!
All of you guys that can't seem to enjoy yourselves in AH and believe that the gunnery, FM or the material used in building the runways are not as accurate as IL2, just quit AH and go fly the better sim.
Or, is your life so pathetic that you must spend your time whining to others who actually enjoy themselves about something that matters only to you?
The best of all of this, to me at least, is that none of you have any real life experience which would apply to these whiner discussions.
Have ya flown a warbird? How about just a real aircraft? Ever shoot a .50 caliber round on the ground or in the air?
Oh wait, I forgot the part about misery loving company....unhappy folks are always lookin for someone to hang with so they can enjoy a bowl of "aint life a pisser" soup.
If some of you could see how ridiculous you look posting this crap!
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grun.... that made you look.... foolish.
lazs
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Laz, I think Grun's definition of a "whine" would fall at one of the extreme ends of a bell curve.
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I dont see anything thats a whine there Grun... It all seems so true.
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Ok toad...
grun... that made you look.... extremely foolish.
lazs
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Grun, in Rude's own words:
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If some of you could see how ridiculous you look posting this crap!
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Its time to stop digging grun.
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As far as I'm concerned you whine police guys are worse than the whiners.
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Im of the opinion, especially after this latest release, that IL2 has served as a source of inspiration to HTC. Maybe not as a direct fact, but surely in a roundabout way. The new art, especially the new P51D art is reminiscent of the quality of art you would expect in IL2. Lots of other little thing too.....
As those of us on the inside know, Rude is fond of saying: "Its a good thing"
Thats my take.
Peace, love.
Out
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What does IL2 have to do with this you idiot... I like AH better.
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Grunherz. It's a pity all AH LW pilots don't display the same level of maturity and intelligence that you do. If only more of them spoke out against those who would stifle free discussion, if only more of the LW stood up against the evil whine police, if only more pilots joined their voices in the choir demanding that HTC address such injustices as the clearly bogus high-speed performance of the Ta-152, the world might be a better place for those who follow the more difficult path, the way of the Reich.
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Originally posted by Yeager
The new art, especially the new P51D art is reminiscent of the quality of art you would expect in IL2. Lots of other little thing too.....
Uh...have you actually seen what IL2 looks like?
To compare the graphics in AH to the graphics in IL2 is just...unfair.
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GRUNHERZ
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IL2 is so... NOT on my system.
I wonder why?
Let's see. It has a great flight model (so you say). It has a great gunnery model (stifled chuckle). The graphics are so... (well graphics don't really make a game any better, so what does it matter?). Oh, it DOESN'T support a mega-multi-player environment. THAT explains it!
Well, maybe when it finally hits the $5 software bin at WalMart... NAH!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
As far as I'm concerned you whine police guys are worse than the whiners.
Given the title of this thread, this in an incredibly ironic statement. You've really outdone yourself grun.
AKDejaVu
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Ironic? Its only ironic how somebody who supposedly hates whining like Rude does posted a weekly whine session for months on end. Thats all WOW is its a giant diddlying whiner circle jerk where all you retartd come and prop yourselves up and think how cool you all are because you are making fun of people.
Idiots. And let me guess that idiot Rude will make this thread one of his WOW and you will all think you are so clever and will all have good laugh while virtually blowing each other... Predicatble...
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lol Grun, you at least have a few points there. I believe the tears were getting turd sized when he got to the "just quit AH and go fly the better sim" but I didn't want to say anything.
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I think the subtlety and the indignant moral outrage really lift this puppy into ranks of a classic whine. :D
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I really, really hate to say it, but Grunherz isn't exactly wrong in posting this.
The illusions of grandeur are amusing, however; the postings in the third person have become more frequent.
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So grun.. you're betting that the "idiot" will whine about a thread about whining about whiners whining about whiners?
And to think... you somehow fail to realize you fit into at least three of those "whiners" categories.
AKDejaVu
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Rude's comments don't even come close to a whine IMHO.
In fact, it looks like advice and I wish some would follow it!
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So you admit Rude's Whine of the Week is nothing but a whine.... Interesting DJ.
And Swagger what Rude belched through his tears is a whine. Its the culmination of all those types of holier than thou whiners that manage to make into every supposed whine thread and then cry how everybody is being unfair to AH. Boo hoo hoo, if they dont like the whining they should just shut up and not read the BBS. But nooo they just get all teary eyes and start wheeping like the idiotic babies they are..
They should take Toad's gameplay advice and not care what the other person is doing and just be on the BBS. But I'm sure Toad has some specific rules that negate that and allows them to whine...
Go ahed cry about that some more.. Boo Hoo..
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I thought HTC asked for WoW to be stopped? it serves no purpose to the community other than causing animosity between players in this community.
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(http://nauticaltropical.com/store/little/Tropical%20decor/Safari%20wall%20mirror.jpg)
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Admit? Hmmm.. . pretty much just rehashing what you said in your "whiners whining about whiners" statement.
What I am saying is that its quite pathetic that you think this thread is any better than the person you are criticizing.
AKDejaVu
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LOL A BB tradition on the starter of it...
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Swager, Rude finally had a flash of BBS posting personality that required an actual opinion and response to a thread; other than just copying and pasting what someone else said with a clever premise that they are wrong because it’s another WOW topic.
And he came off sounding almost as bad as any poster that is the subject of his ongoing AH post ritual.
For instance, absurd references to runway materials, like that adds anything but drivel to the topic, and explains the argument of different sim gunnery approaches, which is a sure viable discussion. Comparisons ought to be made and discussed comparing the WWII flightsims out there, no?
He lost me on the “ just quit” stuff though. That’s not a whine. It’s just stupid.
I'm not taking sides on the 4 diffrent pissing matches, just saying what seems fair, and Grun got a fair shot in on posting this topic.
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WTG Grunherz, its about time somone exposed this garbage...
WHINE OF THE WEEK by RUDE is the LAMEST thing on these forums..!!!
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Originally posted by Voss
IL2 is so... NOT on my system.
I wonder why?
Let's see. It has a great flight model (so you say). It has a great gunnery model (stifled chuckle). The graphics are so... (well graphics don't really make a game any better, so what does it matter?). Oh, it DOESN'T support a mega-multi-player environment. THAT explains it!
Well, maybe when it finally hits the $5 software bin at WalMart... NAH!
You show em VOSS! AH is so ON my system! WTG! Mega-Multi-Player Kickass ging ging greatness!! THAT is right! WOW! Unbelievable! Insane! And it ain't at Walmart! LOL! WOW! ROTFLOL! SUPER DILLY DUPER! I can't wonder why, Im so NOT unexcited! THAT explains it all! ROTFLOL!
You are CRAZY! IL-2 is on your system...NOT!
LOL! WOW!
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The great whiner uprising of 2002! LOL, this thread is fantastic! :D
SOB
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Hortlund sniveled:
"To compare the graphics in AH to the graphics in IL2 is just...unfair"
Give Natedog and Superfly 512x512 textures and they would easily equal or exceed IL-2s eye candy, what you see in AH is done in 256x256 format, bet you Olegs gang of pirates couldn't match it in 256 scale.
HTC created a game, Oleg just pirated Janes WW2 Fighters...gunnery, muzzle flash, tracer smoke trails, FM...all a joke.
Eye candy doesn't make a game good.
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Huh?
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I like IL2 just fine. I dont get the itch to play it very often but when I do its a pleasure. Hell, the AI guys in IL2 are generally more challenging than 75% of the folks in AH hehe....but not satisfying in the fact that a dork sitting in a chair at his computer just got flamed you see.
I just dont find the two competing for my time. Two different things but they are very complimentary to one another, to me at least.
And Voss, dont be a dork. You got to try the thing to get any sort of opinion worth listening to ;)
As far as rudes whine of the week. Some of you guys must have vaginas your so damned squeaky. Relax and take it like a man.
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Sorry Grunherz but it doesn't fit the definition of a whine.
whine - 1. to utter a long, plaintive, high-pitched sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint. 2. To protest or complain in a childish, annoying fashion
But this qualifies as a whine.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And the Whiner is......
See it's meets definition #2.
Here's another good example of a whine.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ironic? Its only ironic how somebody who supposedly hates whining like Rude does posted a weekly whine session for months on end. Thats all WOW is its a giant diddlying whiner circle jerk where all you retartd come and prop yourselves up and think how cool you all are because you are making fun of people.
Idiots. And let me guess that idiot Rude will make this thread one of his WOW and you will all think you are so clever and will all have good laugh while virtually blowing each other... Predicatble...
That one meets both number 1 and 2 definitions for a whine.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Il2 was $15 at sams club yesterday.
lazs
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Get your free copy of Il-2.
I do'nt need to suck at 2 Flight sims at once, and I have no interest in putting Il-2 on my machine.
If you want the copy that came with my Cougar (Unopened) reply with an e-mail address and it's yours.
(This is not a joke)
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Originally posted by Yeager
As far as rudes whine of the week. Some of you guys must have vaginas your so damned squeaky. Relax and take it like a man.
Crankie Goes To Whineyrude - Relax
Relax don't stew in it
When you want to go throw a fit
Relax don't stew in it
When you want to whine
Relax don't stew in it
When you want to whine
When you want to whine
Relax don't chew it
When you want to go through a snit
Relax don't chew it
When you want to whine
Relax don't chew it
When you want to through a snit
Relax don't chew it
When you want to whine
Whine-oh oh oh
But post it in the right direction
Make making it your intention-ooh yeah
Live those dreams
Scheme those schemes
Got to hit me
Hit me
Hit me with those hizooka beams
I'm whining
I'm whining-yeah
Relax don't drool it
When you want to go throw a fit
Relax don't drool it
When you want to whine
Relax don't stew in it
When you want to rehash a bit
Relax don't stew in it (love)
When you want to whine
When you want to whine
When you want to whine
Whine-huh
Post it up
The thread above
Oh prove it
Relax Relax Relax
Higher higher Relax
Rudie say relax! Don't do it!
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Get your free copy of Il-2.
I do'nt need to suck at 2 Flight sims at once, and I have no interest in putting Il-2 on my machine.
If you want the copy that came with my Cougar (Unopened) reply with an e-mail address and it's yours.
(This is not a joke)
Hey, MuckMaw
If ya don't want it send it to my, My son will like it :)
awfltdoc@cableone.net
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Does this mean you don't like me any longer Grun?
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Shane likes Frankie
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No, Rude.. it just confirms that he doesn't like ANYONE.
:)
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"Who are these guys?" :D
Thorns
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The wine of the week is a typical pony dude attack. just drop out of the dweebosphere and take a shot that cant be responded too.
If rude had real nuts or his opionion on anything really mattered he would give us his opinion on threads he disagrees with like a man and get involved in the thread...this way he tries to keep his hands clean..but hes really just a chicken toejam.
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Another reply that admits Rude's WOW threads are in fact every single weeks biggest Whine of the Week itself. Thanks Ack-Ack.
I like you Toad, doesn't that count... :D
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The wine of the week is a typical pony dude attack. just drop out of the dweebosphere and take a shot that cant be responded too.
This coming from a guy who flew the LA7 more than any other plane this month? Me thinks Rude chased Pongo down sometime lately... :p
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Damn pongo its killing me but your right again.......
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Ok...so what this thread is really about is the LWhiners hate IL2 because the 109s and 190s suck in it?
Im confused
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just be right, if any one take hiz own right to acuse anyone about whine , then this person merit caled be whiner about whine, just becose the whine about person who whine is same reaction like the first whine
so please tell me , why a hell you whine about when some one whine ? for what ? any logical explication ????:confused:
rude , nothin personal just please stop playing inqisitor
midle age was some couple hundred years before
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Yeager this thread has nothing to do with IL2... I think its pretty clear why this thread exists.
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Ah--- Rude the Merciless has struck again.
A GOOD WINE-
1999 Ken Wright Pinot Noir
Shea Vineyard-
Pulled one out of the cellar for dinner Sat. nite. Great color-medium ruby. Classic pinot nose-red fruits, touch of earth with a hint of lavender. Nice body-wine is fruit driven with good acid balance, the oak was nicely integrated. Finish-deep, intense slightly tannic but drinkable now.
Highly recommened by the official TAS wine snob.
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Originally posted by BNM
This coming from a guy who flew the LA7 more than any other plane this month? Me thinks Rude chased Pongo down sometime lately... :p
He hasnt...But it could well happen.
I did get a whine of the week one time though!
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Sorry Pongo but I was talking about you. :)
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Hehehe... this thread is starting to look like a "WOTW Alumni" support group. Guys... keep up the comraderie... support each other through thick and thin and know... always know: No matter how whiny you were, you were right.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by festus
Hey, MuckMaw
If ya don't want it send it to my, My son will like it :)
awfltdoc@cableone.net
fetus ... Muck ...
I got one too with my Cougar, BUT it was the IL2 DEMO !!!
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Nice to see you are right on track DJ... When you cant get people to shut up you make fun of them...
You guys are great, you can help yourselves to act like jerks and make fun of people even in some bizzare attempt to deny the problem.
Great Thanks DJ!
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Originally posted by BNM
Sorry Pongo but I was talking about you. :)
I got that...
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Grun.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nice to see you are right on track DJ... When you cant get people to shut up you make fun of them...
You guys are great, you can help yourselves to act like jerks and make fun of people even in some bizzare attempt to deny the problem.
Great Thanks DJ!
After starting this thread grun, just what the hell did you expect? I mean really?
And... deny the problem? Hmmmm... big difference between denying a problem and saying that this does absolutely nothing to help. Absolutely nothing. And when you're playing at taking the moral high-ground, that should be something you strive to do.
A bunch of rude's "WOTW" champions posted in this thread about how out of line he is and you celebrated each and every one of thier posts. Good for you and the other "victims".
The funny thing is, there wasn't really anyone else that supported either you or this thread. Odd.
AKDejaVu
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You people seriously need help.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Im of the opinion, especially after this latest release, that IL2 has served as a source of inspiration to HTC. Maybe not as a direct fact, but surely in a roundabout way. The new art, especially the new P51D art is reminiscent of the quality of art you would expect in IL2. Lots of other little thing too.....
As those of us on the inside know, Rude is fond of saying: "Its a good thing"
Thats my take.
Peace, love.
Out
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Originally posted by Pongo
The wine of the week is a typical pony dude attack. just drop out of the dweebosphere and take a shot that cant be responded too.
If rude had real nuts or his opionion on anything really mattered he would give us his opinion on threads he disagrees with like a man and get involved in the thread...this way he tries to keep his hands clean..but hes really just a chicken toejam.
Pongo....
I would hope that you didn't mean everything you posted above.
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Damn right it seems he meant it, or did you think everyone takes as much pleasure as you and yours in attacking and humilating people from a distance.
Whats up rude, why dont you make his post a WOW?
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Originally posted by Toad
No, Rude.. it just confirms that he doesn't like ANYONE.
:)
yeah Grun is nothing like you 13th TAS guys.
you're all so far up each others arse youre starting to appear like a single person :)
look at this thread, look at the amount of 13th TAS squadies who all jump to the defence of Rude and his utterly s*** whine of the week crap.
Hell they even use each other to laugh at their own jokes/flames/whatever they are.
If ever theres a more clear cut example of a bunch of players acting like children in a schoolyard I havent seen it!
Rude is an A**. He makes out he doesnt like whining and goes on to whine about it.caught on it he and his brown tounged squadies try to make out grunhertz is the one complaining about whines. Its laughable. We all know who the idiot is who keeps trying to impress with his 'WOW' and fails consistantly to either entertain or educate.
13th TAS deserve a name of their own. 'whine police' just doesnt cover the truelly embarassing drivel they come out with.
Id rather watch paint dry than read rudes opinion on anything.same goes for his a** licking squadmates :D
Grunhertz scr** em, who cares what they think? ;)
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An anonymous poster sitting behind a keyboard thousands of miles away, calling somebody else chickenshit...hilarious!
bowser
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I care what people think hazed, thats why I'm trying hard to make this place better and confront peoples bad behavior - as naive as that sounds. :D
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And how would you rate hazed's last post?
HiTech
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Pretty inflamatory hitech, thats why I disagreed with him about caring and not giving up on people.
However I understand the anger he feels.
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I think Hazed and Pongo are dead on.
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so do I actually.
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Hitech i must appologise for the bad language(ive edited it) I used but I utterly stand by what Im trying to say.
These guys behave like a gang of bullies. They use systematic methods of closing down threads.
first one says something abusive then 2 or 3 others jump in and agree.
If they cant find a way of proving someone is wrong they switch to name calling and generally being 'loud' in a thread, ie loads of replies.
These guys often say things ten times worse than what i just wrote. For one thing I am far more insulted by someone claiming im a nazi than someone saying im an 'a___ lick'.
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I'd like to Thank every damn one of ya's , for taking the heat off me so QUICKLY:)
NUTTZ
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You can be thankful for more than that NUTTZ. Anythow I hope you have calmed down a bit and feel better now.
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The 13th is just a group of guys that understands this is a game.
THAT'S the big difference, IMO.
Secondly, we're all very good friends... we didn't know each other at all before AH....and we became great friends through this GAME.
We all value this game very highly as a part of our friendship and as a form of personal recreation. I don't find it unusual at all that we mutually abhor people that would defame it.
If one of us made a post like Hazed just did, we'd boot him. But it has NEVER come up. Think on that a while.
Evaluate our behavior in the game. You won't hear trash talking, insults or profanity from this squad. You never will.
I'm glad I'm in the 13th. There are a very, very few other squads I admire on an equal basis.
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Personally I enjoy the "whine of the week". Had a similar thing at AGW by whwk_but_it_came_with_a_troph y..
HOW BOUT A TROPHY YA CHEAP BASTAGES ??????
If your going to do it, do it top shelf, none of this mamby-pamby can I have some cheese with my bologna pap..
BREAK OUT THE SIMIULATED GOLD, WITH A PLAQUE TO BE ADDED TO EACH WEEK YA HALF-WAY KINDA WANNA DO IT INDIVIDUALS...
A HALL OF FAME !!!
An awards banquet AT THE CON. Will get Whoopie to MC..
I myself love the slide show with the musical score accompanyment on the screen behind the podium.
A small vile containing REAL TEARS !!!
Its good....but can be...so....so...much better..
Who needs a beer ??
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Well I guess Toad its lovely how you have nice rules in 13TH TAS. Its ok to insult people and call them names, and embarass and humiliate them with dedicated humiliation threads as long you dont use cuss words. How convenient.
Do Rude's deliberate huminliation and embarassement crusades as represented by his countless WOW fit into the 13TH TAS moral code of acceptable BBS behavior?
YES or NO Toad?
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Originally posted by Toad
The 13th is just a group of guys that understands this is a game.
...the rest of us don't understand that, we all think it's for real.
Toad, what if I were to dig up a post on this BB from someone in the 13th TAS that was rude and insulting, maybe it could even be considered trash talking. Would that mean that the one in your squad who posted that one would be kicked out of the squad? Is that really what you are saying there mr "we are never rude or insulting"?
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Well, if there's folks out there that think 3 knots of top end error is a serious problem, they don't understand it's a game.
Hortland, show me a post like Hazed just made by a 13th that wasn't disciplined or tossed. And we have tossed guys that "didn't get it".
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Originally posted by Toad
Hortland, show me a post like Hazed just made by a 13th that wasn't disciplined or tossed. And we have tossed guys that "didn't get it".
Quite a difference between that and
Evaluate our behavior in the game. You won't hear trash talking, insults or profanity from this squad. You never will.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Ah--- Rude the Merciless has struck again.
A GOOD WINE-
1999 Ken Wright Pinot Noir
Shea Vineyard-
Pulled one out of the cellar for dinner Sat. nite. Great color-medium ruby. Classic pinot nose-red fruits, touch of earth with a hint of lavender. Nice body-wine is fruit driven with good acid balance, the oak was nicely integrated. Finish-deep, intense slightly tannic but drinkable now.
Highly recommened by the official TAS wine snob.
Now yer talking! :cool:
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Id like to make a slight amendment to my statement that ALL 13th TAS are up each others you know what........
I just became aware that ygsmilo and yeager are in TAS and i have to say i havent ever read anything from them which seems to be aimed at annoying other players.
Theres probably others that arent guilty of it but i dont have a list of TAS members.
But it goes to show you that if you try to lump players into one category or handsomehunked name you tarnish those who arent guilty as well as the guilty.
Toad , just as you say you would expel anyone in your squad for using a bad word like 'ass' or 'arse' (which i doubt you would but hey it looks good if you say it doesnt it) personally if 13th TAS was my squad id get rid of rude for his annoying 'WOW' crap.
I think i thought it was funny the first time i saw it but now i consider it to be one of the posts that encourage animosity between players and generally lowers the tone of the whole BBs.
your attempt to make my post out as something truelly terrible is quite funny.I know you have a thicker skin than you are pretending to have but hey it might influence HTC eh? might make them think you are the injured party?
clever playground tactic .
now go tidy your room, mommy is calling
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Not at all. There's two consecutive sentences:
If one of us made a post like Hazed just did, we'd boot him. But it has NEVER come up. Think on that a while.
Evaluate our behavior in the game. You won't hear trash talking, insults or profanity from this squad. You never will.
We don't post on the BBS like Hazed just did and we don't trash talk, insult or use profanity when playing the game.
I stand by both statements.
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The vituperative tone of your attack is the issue Hazed. It's pretty much the same tone you used in your other threads that HT apparently enjoys as much as I do.
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Originally posted by Toad
The 13th is just a group of guys that understands this is a game.
THAT'S the big difference, IMO.
Secondly, we're all very good friends... we didn't know each other at all before AH....and we became great friends through this GAME.
We all value this game very highly as a part of our friendship and as a form of personal recreation. I don't find it unusual at all that we mutually abhor people that would defame it.
If one of us made a post like Hazed just did, we'd boot him. But it has NEVER come up. Think on that a while.
Evaluate our behavior in the game. You won't hear trash talking, insults or profanity from this squad. You never will.
I'm glad I'm in the 13th. There are a very, very few other squads I admire on an equal basis.
You’ve been watching WAY to many episodes of the Andy Griffith Show.
And stop sending HiTech all those bribes. He’ll recognize Grun again before the topic dies. Droopy has already made his way in with a holiday fruit basket and 2 cents, heh.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I care what people think hazed, thats why I'm trying hard to make this place better
This is the funniest/ironic thing ever written on this BBS....EVER!
Stop it Grun...you're keelin' me here!
That deserves this.....
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Originally posted by Toad
The vituperative tone of your attack is the issue Hazed.
I find your collective attacks on what grunhertz was saying just as abusive and offensive.I happen to agree with what he is saying.You seem to feel trying to humiliate someone on these boards(collectively) does not pertain to 'insulting' behaviour.
'WOW' is a perfect example of insulting behaviour as its aim is to humiliate the poster regardless of whether he may, or may not have a point. Most of what rude deems whines are nothing more than poorly worded, but often legitimate frustrations.
so whos causing the most animosity on these boards? I think its you guys myself.
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Right, Hazed.
Who was mentioned as close to getting kicked off the board?
You see that as a "positive" comment with respect to your contributions, I guess.
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I am ignorant. I didnt really think people were upset over this WOTW stuff.
I really want to be loved by everyone so please accept my apologies.
Shane I love you. I dont know why but I do.
GRUNZ, your a helluva LW player, please stay awesome.
Woton, Ive always thoght of you as someone with above average intelligence (as far as the game goes), dont change.
Hazed, your the best. I love you.
To any others I may have missed: The LW rides are awesome and very difficult to master. This I know because Ive tried them all. When I get smacked down by a 190 or a 109 I just brim with respect because I know how hard it is to do well enough to flame me. There will never be enough Galland or Hartman admirers to satisfy me. You guys are superb and a key component of the game. Stay golden.
To Hitech. I hate brownosers or asskissers but when Im in the mood, and believe me Im in the mood, I never hesitate to give accolades when and wherever they are due. Fella, you are awesome. The rest of your group has all my admiration and love and respect and support.
Lastly. to my brothers in the finest organization in AH, 13th TAS.
You guys have saved me in so many ways so many times that I will always remember you. I love you all. I remember the first time Rude and I flew together. Love ever since. Milo, Toad, sax, Beemer, Wildthing, Oz, All of ya. You make the game so much more than just a silly pastime. You make it immensely enjoyable beyond mere words.
Thank you.
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Beyond that, no TAS made any direct attacks on Grun.
Disagree with his statements? Yes.
Attack him personally like you did all of us? No. No way.
In fact, in my own case I feel I have gone out of my way to be polite to him dispite his vehemence.
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What a beutiful post Cobra! Thank you!
Not only is it hearfeat and poigniant but also well worded, concise and incredibly uselful.
What exactly do you think that insult ( I guess) will accomplish?
My best to you Cobra!
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Please Hazed.
Go read the Shooting thread on page 2.
Read my first posts, in no way did I "attack" onepunch at all, I was just giving info from personal experience. Here is the "nice logical and picked on Grunherz's first reply"
Gman:
Well, I'm no expert in ballistics/energy in regards to WW2 weapons, but I do resemble one for rifle calibers.
Let's take a garden variety .300 win mag round. At 1000 meters, it still has well over 870 foot pounds of energy. That is a hell of a lot more than even a .44 magnum has at point blank range.
Now, take the .50 cal 750 grain Amax round that I shoot. It has nearly triple the energy of a .300 win mag at 1000 meters. Make no mistake, kiling APC's at this range is usually a one or two shot deal so long as shot placement is correct. And that is what this argument bakes down to IMO - shot placement.
In air to air combat, even while in level flight, there are SO many more variables when it comes to hitting the targets, I'm sure this isn't anything everyone here doesn't already know and accept.
However unlikely hitting another fighter at 1000 meters may or may not be, be certain that if a .50, much less a 20 mm explosive round hits said fighter, it will still have more than enough energy to do catostrophic damage, so long as it strikes the right place (fluke).
So, the original posts statement that killing a fighter in AH at long range is unrealistic because of the distance/power issue isn't very accurate, that said, I've never tried shooting from my 172, but I imagine it would be like anything else: difficult at first, much easier with experience when it comes to actually striking long range targets.
We have a Hispano 20mm in our shop, it came out of a Hurricane 2c at the local air museum. I should round up some 20mm ammo and take it to the range and shoot some tracer at an old car at 1200 meters or so. Video tape of that would prove the case one way or the other, at least in regards to inflictable damage at that range.
Grunherz's response:
You guys arent seriously trying to justify AH long range shooting by saying its possible to do so with a gun fixed on a solid shooting bench and firing at a fixed target on the ground. Lets curtail the fanaticism here, ok?
As for IL2 I do think it's "too hard" certainly much harder than AH, but can any of you prove it's not realitic, or is it jush how you "feel". Lets see some data otherwise you are just whiners.
And Toad remember what I said about all those AH cheerleaders whining about IL2... Pretty good so far..
Cmon I see some of you are AH whine police squeakes, how bout you all produce some numbers, or are you all just going on feel or comparing it to another sim...
Otherwise shut up and play, or go away you little whining squeakes...
__________________
Who wouldn't go on the attack after that. Especially considering I didn't in any way attack Onepunch, who is a nice guy whenever I've seen him in the game.
He then calls ME a "fanatic" later on. Hah, Grun, count posts pal, I think you have more posts in this and the other thread regarding this LW whine stuff then I do all together.
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Lastly. to my brothers in the finest organization in AH, 13th TAS.
You guys have saved me in so many ways so many times that I will always remember you. I love you all. I remember the first time Rude and I flew together. Love ever since. Milo, Toad, sax, Beemer, Wildthing, Oz, All of ya. You make the game so much more than just a silly pastime. You make it immensely enjoyable beyond mere words.
Thank you.
I feel the same way about Gordo.
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Screw Gordo...and screw you too Creamo. Pissant.
SOB
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I was trying to immiate the style of attack often used against luftwhiners. Had all the hallmarks, called you whiners, asked for proof, discredited your innacurate undocumened comparsion, and last of just said enjoy the game and dont care about any problems you see.
Should I be suprise you were offended? Ask yourself Gman how you would feel after say a few dozen of those types or responses day after day for a few years.
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Well, that is an interesting way to spin it, sure doesn't match up with the words and tone you used originally, but that is much easier to realate to and understand.
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I felt that it was best to illustrate it directly with some real life hostility. Perhaps its much easier to ignore a description but when you feel it yourself that little bit of hurt is not easy dismiss.
I'm happy we can now relate on this Gman. Thanks and !
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What a beutiful post Cobra! Thank you!
Not only is it hearfeat and poigniant but also well worded, concise and incredibly uselful.
What exactly do you think that insult ( I guess) will accomplish?
My best to you Cobra!
*edited for a more hearfeat response......
Actually, Grun, it accomplished as much in one sentence and one post as much as all your posts in this thread.
And I do appreciate your good wishes if they are sincere....if not, then I don't. S!
Cobra
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Well if it makes you feel better...
I'm enyojng this thread as well too but I feel we are moving forward and accomplishing something.
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Grun: Ill take you at your word on the Gman stuff. But it was a very bad choice and only inflames stuff.
HiTech
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If the " WOW " was taken like it should be, just alittle bit of friendly humor , it wouldn't be a problem.
Used to be guys accepted their award with a smile.
You had ta be a good whiner to make it after all.
Now unfortunately it appears to offend some folks who either just don't have a sense of HaHa, dislike Rude, don't like the 13th Tas, or all of the above.
I vote no more "WOW " I'd like my kids to be able to read this board again without adult supervision.
Congrats to all the past winners, seems like most of yas deserved and enjoyed your moment:)
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Hitech:
Thanks I hope you too can relate seeing as you were offended by the post much as Gman was.
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Grun: No offence taken by it or relating to it, you were way off base making that post. I can just understand a logic behind it with an extreamly poor delivery.
HiTech
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Fair enough Hitech, just wanted to share the wonder of being a designated luftwhiner with somebody. :D
Anyhow I think its great that you recognize how hurtful and negative that style of post is.
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But do relize how bad the luftwiner post are?
HiTech
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A lot of people whine badly, yes. I dont think its accurate or fair to limit that question to just luftwhiners.
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I think the pizza map whiners are way ahead of the luftwhiners, but who's keeping score?
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But do relize how bad the luftwiner post are?
HiTech
Damn, that's gonna leave a mark! :eek:
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I myself have nothing against the 13tas. I dont really have anything against Rude. Toad happens to be one of my favorite guys on these boards. I have no problem with him toasting people for being dits. Even if its me.
Rude however.
The guy is polite. But to what end. To single people out for recognition and abuse that he wont inflict. Thats not polite.
Ya saks post was ludicrous. I cant imagine what some of the private emails to HTC are like.
But if you want to take them to task for it. Do it. Dont think you can throw the yellow feather at them and the comunity will do your dirty work for ya.
So ya Rude. I meant it.The anology to flying a pony was just silly. But I think your a chicken toejam bully. It doesnt matter that I agree with your choices, I dont agree with your methods.
You probably think your a real nice guy. Doing everyone a favour.
Your just promoting your self at others expense.
What are we going to have..
Flame of the month
Chear leader of the month
Luftwhiners...
They should have to read the entire board befor they can post.
Look how many German Planes are in this game. Look at the tanks and anti aircraft choices. Look what is the best plane in the game..And the best tank.
Just cause Ospreys FW190 aces of the western front says that a 152 beat a Tempest doenst make it so.
Only the LW in this game gets a plane that was in effect an operational prototype. If the allied contemporaries of the 152 where in here we would never hear the end of it.
One of us has to write a one pager on how much German representation there is in this game and how time after time perfomance complaints about German planes have been debunked or at least put in doubt. Way to much energy is spent on that crap.
Sure enough. The Il2 boards are allready dealing with exactly the same issue. And no its not pony fans(yet) its FW fans. Supprise.
The get exaclty the same response there. Or worse.
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Originally posted by hazed-
Hitech i must appologise for the bad language(ive edited it) I used but I utterly stand by what Im trying to say.
These guys behave like a gang of bullies. They use systematic methods of closing down threads.
first one says something abusive then 2 or 3 others jump in and agree.
If they cant find a way of proving someone is wrong they switch to name calling and generally being 'loud' in a thread, ie loads of replies.
These guys often say things ten times worse than what i just wrote. For one thing I am far more insulted by someone claiming im a nazi than someone saying im an 'a___ lick'.
That hurt Hazed... Ill catch ya in the MA!
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We've been blessed.... two hilarious threads in the past two days.
What a way to end a great BBS year with a bang!
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Well Pongo....at least ya call it like ya see it.
I make no apologies to you or anyone else for WOW....if ya don't like it, then it's probably best to get over it.
I've voiced my opinion before just like the reply which Grun showcased in this thread....seems some of you don't like the taste of that delivery either. Make up your mind.
As to your personal insult to me Pongo....you don't even know me yet you feel impowered behind your keyboard and in front of your pals to the point of insulting me personally.
If your waiting for me to treat others in the same manner, you'll have a long wait. I've never stood in judgement over anyone in this GAME to the point of personal attacks....whinin is one thing...gettin personal is another in my book.
Chances are Pongo....if we ever met, we most likely would get along. As a matter of fact, private me your phone number or call me at 913-208-3807 and you can call me names over the phone....I could at least respect that.
As to future WOW threads....they'll come as I feel inclined to post them or until HT says enough of that.
What's funny about this crap is that I'm just as passionate about this silly sim as many of you...the difference is I realize that complaining until I'm blue in the face won't change a thing....patience works for me. Some of you seem to me to be so bent out of shape about a GAME that I personally can't relate....as a matter of fact, my life is so full of REAL issues which REALLY matter, that the last thing I'm going to do is show my tail end on this board. Just my take...you don't have to like it.
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Originally posted by hazed-
Hitech i must appologise for the bad language(ive edited it) I used but I utterly stand by what Im trying to say.
These guys behave like a gang of bullies. They use systematic methods of closing down threads.
first one says something abusive then 2 or 3 others jump in and agree.
If they cant find a way of proving someone is wrong they switch to name calling and generally being 'loud' in a thread, ie loads of replies.
These guys often say things ten times worse than what i just wrote. For one thing I am far more insulted by someone claiming im a nazi than someone saying im an 'a___ lick'.
Point us to an example of this strategy Hazed....just when did we do this or are ya just whinin again....sheesh...bullies??? You have got to be kidding....are you so sensitive as to believe for a moment that any of us, especially me, would give you more than a fleeting thought, much less devise some sinister plot to abuse little ol you on this board?
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Rude wrote:
"if ya don't like it, then it's probably best to get over it."
WOW! (pun intended loosely)
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I know you personally Rude... can I call you a chickenshit ? :D.
Guys, I'm going to say this once. Well, I might say it again (if I get a double post). I'd consider myself a 'reformed' Luftwhiner. I used to think the LW planes were modelled like crap, the collective Allied rides were all 'easy-mode', there was a persistant and pervasive bias against 'LW' pilots on the BBS, etc. You know why I thought that? Because I sucked. The problem was with me, personally. Now I'm a decent stick, and surprise surprise, I don't have any problems in the LW planes. In fact, I'm far more successful in them than I am in anything else. The thing with the 'bias' I'd really have to put down to 2 things.
First, insecurity. I had some need to prove myself as a '1337' pilot, and I used to get real upset if someone denigrated my 'skill' as a 'virtual pilot'. I'm done with that now, I've proved all I can prove. I don't feel that I've got anything else to prove to anyone. If 'Joe Newb' or whoever wants to sling mud at me, let em. I don't care either way.
Second, a real lack of understanding. I went to the Convention this past year because I really wanted to meet some people. Some I wanted to meet because I thought they were pretty cool, some I wanted to meet just because I didn't believe that it was possible for them to be as big a jerk as I had made them out to be.
I met Rude at the Con. I've talked to him on the phone a few times since the Con- he is a real stand up guy in my opinion. One of the best. I met Ammo at the Con- again, one of the best people you'll ever meet. Both of those guys won't hesitate to call Bull---- on the BBS if they smell something fishy. It used to really annoy me, now that I've met em in real life I kind of respect that.
I think the whole "Luftwhiner" thing is really some sort of persecution complex on the part of the aggreved. Granted, there are guys on the BBS who throw the word around a lot, but you know why they throw the word around? Just to see your reaction.
And yes, I can understand why Hitech would take offense at some of the "Luftwhine" posts. Just look at the TONE of the posts, not necesarily the words. And yes, Grunherz has a point when he says that other groups that use the same "tone" are not collectively marked with a deragatory label... but believe me when I say they are marked.
Also.. on the WotW thing... I really think people take it a tad to seriously. I've 'won' that award a couple times (I think), and I took it as it was meant- which in my opinion is lightly. I took it as Rude saying to me "Ya know son, you took it just a liiiiiiiittttlleee to far that last time, why dotcha tone it down some?"
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913-208-xxxx
Rude, you may want to reconsider posting your phone number... it is the Internet and all. Not everyone reading the boards are is as sane as those who post here :)
Charon
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Well Urchin I dont think there is anything Rude could tell me over the phone that will make the WOW posts anthying but cold calucalated insulting and huminiation crusades.
I dont know the guy, and maybe hes really nice and helps orphans and old ladies but as far as the WOW is concrned hes an awful person to make fun of people like that- and that is the only purpose of WOW.
AFAIK I was never the winner of that insult so I have no grudge against it or him personally, I dont think I even do FM whines for a long time.
Howver I know that behavior, I have both been the subject and later perpitrator of such systematic bullying and just because your friend or you do it and you are really cool guys to each other doesnt make it right to do it to somebody else.
So it doesnt matter if he is nice, his mean spirited ridiculing in WOW is the problem. And its obvious he doesnt care unless hitech slaps him right across the mouth - and thats the problem.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Luftwhiners...
They should have to read the entire board befor they can post.
Look how many German Planes are in this game. Look at the tanks and anti aircraft choices. Look what is the best plane in the game..And the best tank.
Just cause Ospreys FW190 aces of the western front says that a 152 beat a Tempest doenst make it so.
Only the LW in this game gets a plane that was in effect an operational prototype. If the allied contemporaries of the 152 where in here we would never hear the end of it.
One of us has to write a one pager on how much German representation there is in this game and how time after time perfomance complaints about German planes have been debunked or at least put in doubt. Way to much energy is spent on that crap.
Sure enough. The Il2 boards are allready dealing with exactly the same issue. And no its not pony fans(yet) its FW fans. Supprise.
The get exaclty the same response there. Or worse.
You summed that up nicely bud.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well Urchin I dont think there is anything Rude could tell me over the phone that will make the WOW posts anthying but cold calucalated insulting and huminiation crusades.
I dont know the guy, and maybe hes really nice and helps orphans and old ladies but as far as the WOW is concrned hes an awful person to make fun of people like that- and that is the only purpose of WOW.
AFAIK I was never the winner of that insult so I have no grudge against it or him personally, I dont think I even do FM whines for a long time.
Howver I know that behavior, I have both been the subject and later perpitrator of such systematic bullying and just because your friend or you do it and you are really cool guys to each other doesnt make it right to do it to somebody else.
So it doesnt matter if he is nice, his mean spirited ridiculing in WOW is the problem. And its obvious he doesnt care unless hitech slaps him right across the mouth - and thats the problem.
Grun....
You seemed to have a closed mind to the truth and are more interested in your perception of it than what it really is.
Like I said before....WOW only showcases what I felt was the most blatant whine for that week...anything more than that is your own creation.
This is my final word regarding this topic....Wotan, Pongo, Grun and Hazed....if calling me names and making false accusations about me and others in my squad is the worst thing you ever do in your lives, you all will be just fine I'm sure:)
Thanks Urch:)
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So in truth WOW is really nice? Such deliberate making fun of people is just misnunderstood good natured joking... Or I am I supposed to perecive that as not an attack but just an informational service.
And again if you are so inclined to write things like "if ya don't like it, then it's probably best to get over it" maybe you should follow your own advice.
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I'll have to look back over the past WotW Grun, but I don't recall Rude ever editorializing them. Well, somethings a little wrong with the search function, so the only thing that comes up are the two 'whine of the week'.
However, the only thing Rude added to Sachs post was "And the Whiner is ....."
He didn't add a damn thing to it, he let AGs 'whine' stand on its own merits. If I recall correctly that is all he has ever done. He hasn't bullied or denigrated a single person in my opinion.
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Hazed wrote:
For one thing I am far more insulted by someone claiming im a nazi...
When was the last time someone made that accusation Hazed? Because you bring up this very question time and time again.
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grun... you missed toads point.. They know it's a game and have a good time.. I have blasted them harder even then you silly luftwhiners before. They never struck back with vitriol and what appears to be.... hate.
The deal is... look at the vitriol... you and a couple of the other little black hat luftwhineres are livid with rage... in fact... you vacilate between rage and pity seeking...
What keeps the luftwhiner image going is posts like yours and hazed.... you guys can't decide weather you are big bad black hat nazi darth vader types or poor helpless little girls being picked on... I submit that you are neither you are simply computer geeks playing a game. It's a GAME... get it? lead with your face and you will get a broken nose... get it? Become a laughable, overly excitable persona and people will laugh at you.
humorless, uptight and vitriholic gains you no fans. People laugh at you because you are laughable.
lazs
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Truth is (imo) that the recepient of the prestigious "WotW" has already publicly humiliated themself. They often just don't don't know it until someone points it out for them.
That's also true for a lot of posts that aren't recognized. You can whine anti-whiner whiner 'till your blue in the face and doesn't change a thing. Whiner's may get what they whine for (just to shut them up) but they are still whiners.
In the words of my grandson when he was 6 to his 3 year old brother. "I'm sorry Connor, but you're a baby and I don't like to play with babies".
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I still love ya Hazed.
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However you justify it Rude. You are personaly insulting someone every time you do your whine thing. Dont you see that?
So I call you chicken toejam and we should exchange phone numbers.. But calling someone a whiner doesnt make us have to exchange phone numbers I guess.
Like I said. I aggree with lots of your choices. I even aggree with my award if you call it flame of the week. But you still seem to think this lets you keep your hands clean. It doenst . Your hurting people and your response to me here shows that you dont like being made to hurt your self.
Happy new year.
Spit Dweeb
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Look, I may have overeacted a little with concerns to the 13th TAs being the sole guilty party of using the gang formula, but it is a commonly used tactic by many posters in here. After rereading the post i guess they werent really so bad BUT theres a point clearly demonstrated here rude.
You see how you took offence to me spouting stuff about you that (possibly:)) isnt true?
I claim you are deliberately trying to humiliate people and you get annoyed and post im full of crap or whatever? well the same applies when you come over holier than thou and decide that a customers complaint or request is IN YOUR VEIW a whine and should therefore be ignored.Personally I find your WOtW
infantile and not very funny at all.The posts you have quoted in the past have been anything from spot on to way off the mark.Ive seen plenty of them where others have said they hardly constitute a whine.The point is we can read the original post and make up our own minds, we dont need you to tell us what the worst post of the week is.
Like i said at first i thought it was quite funny but now i think its not even remotely amusing.For one thing hardly any of them even resemble a decent whine.
What i would like to see is debate and discussion, sure throw in some ribbing and fun but AVOID the 'formula abuse'. by that i mean the handsomehunked tactics of several members ganging together all generally spouting some new gimicky name and flooding a post with infantile drivel.I dont know about you but i tend to start reading that crap and i lose interest in the actual thread subject.Your WOW although aimed at light humour is used like a weapon in some posts.All this crap like 'ooh rude this is a contender for WOW' or 'waaaa waaa its a wow' or whatever, its just toejame.
Id suggest you either give it up and think of something new to make us actually laugh or at least choose posts where there is an actual whine rather than a legitimate gripe.
A perfect example of the gang formula hurting this game was the 190a's oil damage bug.For months people posted that it was happening and for months guys like you called everyone who asked for it whiners.Many gave up in frustration but eventually it was fixed.Did it continue? did you see hundreds of BB members continue to piss and moan about the engine oil bug? I didnt. If i had seen it then i would agree its whining, as in HTC tries to solve the problem, showing they are trying but people continue to complain.
Another example is the F4uC perk era. I dont think ive ever seen so many complaints as in that time and yes it did lower the tone of the boards but when it was addressed by HTC I think they did the exact right thing.The game was adjusted and personally i think it was for the better but do you remember the amount of name calling etc that went on about the so called F4uC whiners?
well i guess my point is I and others on these boards can make our own minds up about what we feel is a whine and whats a legit complaint.We dont need someone else trying to ridicule a player just because he doesnt agree with the gripe.The point is some agree some dont and its up to HTC not you or your buddies to decide.
Heres an example. The current 'perk the LA7' moans/gripes/whines/legit calls/whatever is a totally personal opinion for every player in here. Some hate the amount they see and complain its spoiling their enjoyment, others say they love it the way it is. If some guy decides to post his opinion that it should be perked its not your job to ridicule him.He may well be whining in your eyes but for some people he might be saying what they feel too.Only HTC can decide if they feel its justified not you or I. sure post in the thread that you dont agree but dont try to put it in a totally seperate post aimed purely at embarassing the poster, its poor form and infantile.
Dowding I havent been called it openly lately but i have had handsomehunked comments or posted pictures that imply I am a nazi or wear their uniforms or worship the ground the germans walked on.You being English you should understand that this crap is annoying. I dont fly LW stuff for any other reason than I enjoy flyig them, I do well in them and i like the look of them. I dont appreciate some bellybutton trying to imply i have some other agenda or reason for making my posts.Dont beleive that? too bad.
Laz the funniest thing in this thread is YOU claiming we are full of vitriol.Have you even read your own posts? the things you say about customers who like to fly bombers? We are humourless? well maybe you should ask my squadies if i never have a laugh or joke? oh speaking of humour, those posts by you were stuffed full of humour werent they? yeah right.You want a perfect example of a whine? go read your so called reasons to get rid of bombers.Rather than shoot the bombers down, thus solving your problem you demand the whole game be changed to suit your taste.You truelly are intollerent of others and prove it repeatedly.
as for this thread its gone on too long, its size far outweighs the actual problem discussed within it. I agree with grun that the 'luftwhiner' and the 'whiner police' crap is detremental to (my) enjoyment of these boards. I try to ignore it but if it was somehow removed or people just got bored of using these handsomehunked terms it would be all the better for me personally and thats all i really need to say.
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Anyone with a complaint has at least two choices.
1. Write or call HTC privately and express their concerns. (Far less likely to be called a whiner and subjected to ridicule, unless you're asking for a bottle of Hitech's scotch, still smarting from that ;))
2. Post their complaint here in hopes of garnering support for their view. (Far more likely to be flamed as a whiner.)
IMO, anyone hoping to gain support for their challenges here should expect opposition as well.
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Hazed:
A perfect example of the gang formula hurting this game was the 190a's oil damage bug.
I submit another possiblity to you. It's not the ganging that hurts this topic, but wrather the previous actions of the posters.
It's realy a chicken little thing. And almost all crediblity has been lost.
You might not like that thought, but it realy is the way the world works.
HiTech
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13th TAS never gets personal or insults people...if they did you would boot them??!!! Hahah BS ! Rude told me once on Ch1 "Keep it up, Punk", and some of his TAS buds joined in with assorted insults/taunts. This is both personal, and an insult. Based on your definition, if you enforce it as literally as you claim,Rude must go. If you need to convene the 13th TAS council for drumming Rude out, I will submit the film immediately. After this exchange btw, I was muted and Rude and company were not (this was the inciting force which caused me to post about how moderators seems to impose their mute authority in a somewhat arbitrary manner.) Now, the reality of it was is that I was being an bellybutton and Rude was justified in getting ticked off. I deserved both the insults and the mute but your claim that 13th TAS never insults people or gets personal is just plain inaccurate. You claim that your group is above it all.... you're not... you're human and sometime get dragged or step into it. Aspiring to be above it all is admirable. Claiming that it " has NEVER come up." is both arrogant and incorrect. Don't make me out to be bashing your squad..like I said, I deserved all I got and accept my lumps. Additionally, I am civil with everyone in your group(as far as I know) in spite of our occasional differences. I'm just calling you on that "holier than thou" stuff. It simply doesn't fly.
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Please send the film to
Toad@13thtas.com
Thanks. I would love to review it.
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What's the problem?......the WOW winners wanted to call attention to themselves in their original posting.......so they got all the attention, and more, called to their post.....why are they upset by that?
Oh, it wasn't attention that they expected.....oh, ok...got it.
Cobra
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Toadmon...I was kidding about submitting it... let me be restate so I am clear: I was being an bellybutton and deserved what I got. From my perspective, Rude and his TAS friends weren't out of line at all. If this is moot and your standards are as they are without exception, I will refrain from sending you that film because I certainly harbor no ill will toward Rude and Co. and thus will do nothing that may cause them any "harm".
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Just to point out that HTC does change stuff. This last release had things in it that were politely and reasonably submitted in the aircraft and vehicle forum.
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Steve,
I really would like the film.
I'd like to read the whole exhange in context and see what's there. I may or may not agree with you. But it's pointless to discuss your accusation without seeing what actually happened.
We'll handle it as a squad from there. We do make a very strong effort to "police" ourselves.
Thanks again.
(It may take me a while to review it. I've got some whacko computer problems going on right now. Going to try another mobo today or tonite.)
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I'll dig it up sometime if ya really want it... it would take some effort I spose. You could just ask Rude about it. This spat wasn't the focus of my post though.. it was more about the "has NEVER come up" post. Never is a long time.
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Why don't we all just start fresh with the New Year? A pipe dream, perhaps, but how about giving everyone on all sides a clean slate, and move forward to achieve our common goals. I think we can agree that:
1. Proper modeling of all aircraft is a common goal, submitting data and raising legitimate questions is something we should all encourage.
2. There will be conflicting data from time to time. I get the impression that the game developers do not have a play balancing or marketing agenda with how they develop the flight models, etc. If the performance differences are relatively minor, try giving them the benefit of the doubt. IMO no aircraft flight performance data from that period is absolute given the telemetry equipment of the era and other factors. Perhaps the test pilot was hung over. Or the aircraft in question was an extra hot factory special, or a worn-out dog. Worry more about areas where major discrepancies are found. If you really think HTC have a hidden agenda, then is AH worth bothering with at all? Move on to an environment that will lead to fewer ulcers and angst.
3. Compose new data or questions in the same way you would if you were dealing with a work issue. You are asking for a time commitment (even for a minor adjustment) and a change in gameplay dynamics that will not be taken lightly. Provide a convincing argument. If you read anecdotal material, or have a feeling about something without data, perhaps raise it as a question more than a declarative statement. Often "feel" has some validity, but usually only as a starting point to try and collect hard data to prove the issue.
As for anecdotal data, without the specific maneuvering diagrams you really don't know. Did the Ta 152 actually out maneuver the Tempest in such and such a fight? Perhaps so (just an example here, not stating an opinion on the actual aircraft matchup). But then I've ran down P-51s in a Zero and out turned a Zero in a LA7, but that was me (or more accurately, my opponent) and not the airplane that made it possible. Hartmann was great in a ME-109, largely fighting in hit and run encounters at low altitude on the Eastern Front. To him, with his skills, opposition, eyesight, training, radio communications and the mission at hand, the Me-109 was the greatest plane in the skies. However, would he have been less successful flying the Fw-190, or perhaps more successful? Would his opinion of the greatest plane in the world be different had he been flying Corsairs in the South Pacific, 1944? What if he was flying a Yak 7 for the Russians? What if he was flying in an artifical MA type environment with a full range of plane choices?
4. Treat people with respect, even if you disagree with them, and even if at some level you don't actually respect them. If somebody is being a jerk, let everyone see the contrast between him/her and you. Civility and dignity may be in short supply throughout the world, but there is no reason why this community can't rise above an otherwise impolite society. It's really not that hard, even when things become heated. I try to do this, fail at times, but it is still worth the effort.
5. Remember, we are all dweebs. We play computer games. The distinction between a Lame 7, Spitdweeb or LW elite are pretty insignificant to someone from "mainstream" society. If we had some of these arguments in public, we would be laughed off the street :)
6. Try to have some patience. HTC is not EA, or Microsoft, or some other big corporation - thank god. If it were, we wouldn't see Hitech or Pyro even posting here. We would just receive press release content with their name on it that some PR type created for them to sign off on. HTC is a small shop, but IMO they are a dedicated one. For each concern you or I have, there are a thousand other people with different concerns and priorities. Expect that it will take some time for 6 people or so to do everything on the list. Don't worry, time passes quick enough I'm afraid. It will be 2005 and version 2.3 before you know it. The debate will be over which 1946 plane to add since the addition of the Bolton Paul Defiant finally filled out the WW2 plane set.
7. If the gameplay is seriously broken to your expectations, and the revision timetable is not to your liking after raising the concern politely once or twice, then move on. I know I will.
8. The hardest one -- once a post goes downhill, moves from any factual debate into personal attacks and opinion, stop feeding it.
As an ending note, perhaps a little more feedback from HTC would be appreciated when someone goes to the trouble to dig up real data. I know my interest gets peaked, whether its a TA-152 GM-1 issue or the Corsair acceleration discussion. After spending the time following one of these discussions, I would personally like to get some sort of final answer. The choice to go with one set or another may be controversial. But, so what. That is the developers' call to make, and as a player I can live with that. At least the feedback reduces some of the speculation, which can become quite negative. Once the reason is stated there is no further need for the developers to defend the issue. As players, you and I can make our customer choices from there.
Charon
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Originally posted by hitech
Hazed:
I submit another possiblity to you. It's not the ganging that hurts this topic, but wrather the previous actions of the posters.
It's realy a chicken little thing. And almost all crediblity has been lost.
You might not like that thought, but it realy is the way the world works.
HiTech
I dont know if your trying to say i have posted too much crap personally but after reading this I did a search on all my posts,especially any you replied or commented in.
I could only find one which i would agree was more a whine than a legitimate complaint but even in that one I only said what i said because i hadnt realised I'd missed previous info. It was a post about the setups for the CT too and had nothing whatsoever to do with FMs but rather unrealistic matchups in the CT(supposedly a more historical arena).
But as far as i can see i havent been out of line in any of the questions ive posed.If i ever questioned performance I did tests in AH and supplied the name of the book which contradicted those tests.I never stated I was right but rather posed a question.I fail to understand how else it can be done? You guys surely dont really want customers phoning you do you? (besides im in UK and that isnt cheap :))
I dont know what 'chicken little' is im sorry.
I realise people form opinions on people from what they have posted before but it is common for players who have posted excellent threads to mess up now and then.Funkedup and nuttz to name but 2 but does that mean we have to ignore everything they say forever more? its a pretty intollerent attitude for a company director to have if you do feel this way I think but hey its your game.
charon in a perfect world eh?.......... :)
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did you Notice Nuttz, retracted and apologized, and called him self out of line when he started getting flamed?
HiTech
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Hazed, I could have asked for world peace I guess :)
Charon
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Rude is embarassing people with WOW???? Well, D-U-H-H! I think the idea was if somebody is embarassed by the attention or reaction to an especially whiney post, they may think twice about doing again.
He's just copying and pasting somebody else's own post, word for word. If they are embarassed by their words....as they should be...they have only themselves to blame. Would you blame a reporter who truthfully reports some idiot's spewage word for word? Don't blame the messenger.
Here's a plan...don't give him any more material to work with.
bowser
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Originally posted by hitech
did you Notice Nuttz, retracted and apologized, and called him self out of line when he started getting flamed?
HiTech
er yes i did and i think he handled it in a very mature manner.To be honest i also thought you handled it pretty well by not reacting to a kneejerk angry post.
are you implying here i owe you an appology HT? or i have to appologise for a previous post? if so which one?
:confused:
I still dont know if im right HT but i get the impression you are pissed off with me, in fact you have been pretty uncivil to me in the past.I would ask you to do one thing if you are, go to the offending post and re-read it.Ive spent a long time re reading my posts and i cant find anywhere where i have been rude or disrespectfull to AH.In fact the majority of the time its quite the oppersite.
If you do check my posts perhaps you'll see on occasions where I have had autications with players I have appologised (like when me and hangtime had a few words).
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Hitech, I didn't retract it because of being Flamed. I'm a big boy and what people say on the BBS doesn't change my life style One Ioda. I retracted it because I was COMPLETELY out of line and wrong and posted It out of anger. Also, YOU personally didn't deserve a response like that from Me, and It really isn't my nature to treat people that way. Also I had the opportunity to Delete the post, But like I said.... I posted it, I said it, I'll take my punishment Like A man. It had NOTHING to do with anybody replying to my post with Flames that made me retract what I said. The oppology from me was A personal one from Me to You and was genuine. And I shouldn't of posted that post on your BBS. On another Note Expect a phone call from Me so You can hear my voice give you an oppology IRL not in the BBS.
Once again I am trully sorry.
NUTTZ
(Don't confuse kindness for weakness)
Originally posted by hitech
did you Notice Nuttz, retracted and apologized, and called him self out of line when he started getting flamed?
HiTech