Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: beet1e on December 30, 2002, 03:37:47 AM
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I'm building a PC for the cleaning lady! She had an old wreck with a burned out processor (spring clip pinged off the cooling fan) and I've cannibalised it as the HDD, legacy floppy etc. were fairly new, and she has a new monitor. I'm satisfied with most of the spec, though some of you who have had bad experiences with VIA chipsets/drivers will be sucking through your teeth... ;)
The one grey area is the CDRW which she now says she wants. TDK - I have found that their CDs are good quality - does the same apply to the hardware? I had hoped to find a HP drive because it's always nice when the hardware manufacturer also provides the software - prevents buck passing down the line (BTDT).
Here's what I'm getting - have a good laugh at UK prices and then advise. :)
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I haven't used TDK.
I had an Acer that was terrible.
I've had a lot of luck with Toshiba and Plextor.
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LG and Plextor CD-burners have been performing pretty well on tests.
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Rgr that - Plextor was in the list, so I'll order one of those instead.
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Yep, Plextor, no need to look any further.
SOB
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I currently used a TDK Cyclone with no problems. If you want to buy blank media for it then try Discplanet (http://www.medeainternational.com/discplanet/index.htm) instead of gettign ripped off at somewhere like PC World or Staples.
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plextor
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Liteon ;)
Some plextors though rated as best in the industry will only allow "backedup" cdr's etc to be played in their own burners
goto places like cdrinfo.com and read for yourself is a wise thing in these matters
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My question is ...
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I'm building a PC for the cleaning lady!
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does your wife/girlfirend know? lol...JK
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Hence "Liteon"
Does the Biz and compare one to a Plex ;)
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I like Liteon burners. (BTW: TDK, Memorex, and LG are actually rebadged Liteon drives.) Plextors used to used Liteon components as well.
HP drives were made by Phillips or Sony.
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I am using a TDK and having no problems, but then I don't burn as much as many people do. I ended up getting it because it was fast and came with some decent apps for a pretty decent price.
Can't comment on anyone else's stuff.
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Get a liteon.
They are inexpensive and their quality matches the plextor drives.
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My God! Someone's getting Fat on your V.A.T. !!
$50 tax on a $250 purchase??
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eb - VAT rates vary from one EU state to another. In the UK, it's 17.5%. In France it's 20.6%. In Ireland 23%! In Spain, 7%. The difference is that at retail outlets like shops, restaurants, the VAT is included in the posted prices instead of being added at the end. The reason the VAT is itemised separately in the above list is that businesses are able to reclaim it. I used to be able to reclaim VAT on computer eqipment purchases myself, but that went out the window when our "New" Labour "government" introduced a package of tax measures known collectively as IR35.
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I have a Plex 16 & Plex 40. Never any problems with either and they play any CD I stick in them. I have read in some forums that Liteon may have caught up or even passed Plextor.
Defiance Liteon
Some plextors though rated as best in the industry will only allow "backedup" cdr's etc to be played in their own burners
goto places like cdrinfo.com and read for yourself is a wise thing in these matters
DJ229
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Hiya's,
Rgr what ya saying Dav
Some Plex's seemed to only allow playing "backup" discs in the burner it was actually burned in ;)
Now since Liteon kinda gave their consumers what they wanted eg....Burn anything (full dao etc) which allowed playing of "backedup" (dare i say it Copied !!!) (Rem it's legal to backup most sw as long as you own/have rights of sw (most countries i know of anyways))
since say Liteon and all their "rebadged" companies for eg LG/Lacie etc etc have been selling and giving most ppl what they wanted (dao etc etc) it seems that Plex's have given in and gone the same/similar route and now it seems they are in "the same boat" and allows "backups" to play in any cd etc etc
1 thing seems weird though, on many a test with Plex's that would only play SD1/2/2.5 etc to play in their burner that did the dead some older cd-roms allowed plex's said burnt "backups" to play lol (seems whatever some plexies had in em to only allow playing in burned cd defianately wasn't in older cd-roms)
I know at this moment in time Liteon gives the bang for buck (rem you can get a rebadged Liteon for less i guess but.....You may not find updated firmwares for rebadged as you would for a Liteon)
For me Liteon equal Plex's in technology and more to the point undercuts in the pricing to Plex's which in todays ripoff world i thinks a great thing
Get the lady whatever but rem for identical/almost ident tech liteons up there with plex's
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I like the Liteon writers. I've never had an issue with one and they are usually bundled with the Nero burning software (one of my favorites).
AKDejaVu
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Defiance,
Now i see what you were saying.;) For some strange legal reason, Plextors sold in Europe were sold with a utility called Plextools that allowed "first session" ..aheemmm "backups". Plextools was not included with drives sold in the USA nor was it available for download on any official sites. If one looks hard enough, one can find anything one needs. HeHe!;)
I am pretty good at looking , but i haven't checked to see if Plextools is officially available in USA, yet. My "backups" made in my Plex 40 do work in my Plex 16.
I do agree that from what I have read Liteon does just as good a job if not better at a cheaper price.
Dave
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I've had a TDK 24/10/40 and have made only 1 coaster with it,
the very first one. Works with every media I've used - even the
cheap stuff with no problems.
g
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I couldn't get the Liteon or Plextor, so I've gone with the TDK Cyclone, as Revvin recommended it.
As for the rest of the build, no problems at all. Once I'd got the heatsink on the processor, I knew the hard part was over. ;) I installed W2000 Pro, and then had to install various software/drivers, including the VIA drivers. I had to get the Athlon 1800 (1.53MHz) as the 1700 seems to have been discontinued. That's OK, but the spec does not have to be leading edge. But it would still run Aces High...
The processor runs at a steady 44°C - much cooler than my Athlon 1.2GHz :eek:
Here it is, lying on the floor just before I replaced the side cover and stood it upright.
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Hehehehe... laying on carpet. That's classic.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Hehehehe... laying on carpet. That's classic.
AKDejaVu
:confused:
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Static electricty can frie your PC ...
And a carpet is full of it
copied from : http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2002/static.asp
Static Electricity and Computers
Whenever the casing of a computer is opened and its internal workings are exposed (to change a hard drive or add memory chips, for example), there is a danger of damaging the computer with the buildup of static electricity that is held by the human body. The internal workings of a computer, and especially the hard drive, are extremely susceptible to static electricity, which can cause considerable damage to the hard drive if it is zapped with even a small amount. Microchip damage can occur if it is exposed to static electricity as low as 500 volts, and humans are not able to perceive static electricity until it has reached about 1,500 volts. (Walking across a rug can produce a static electricity voltage of up to 12,000 volts, but static voltage is not life threatening.) So it is possible to damage a hard drive with static electricity that is not even felt by the person because it is at such a low voltage.
Static electricity is caused by a process called triboelectrification. Everything around us, and including us, is made of atoms, and every atom has in its center (nucleus) positively charged protons and neutrons, which have no electrical charge. Surrounding the atom are negatively charged electrons. The protons and neutrons in an atom do not change, but the electrons can move from one atom to another. When two objects touch, they exchange electrons, which causes one object to become electrically positive and the other to become electrically negative. When an object touches another object with either an opposite or neutral charge, electrons flow. Static electricity is created when electrons move back and forth between atoms.
To avoid zapping your components with static electricity, take precautions to ground the static electricity before touching any of the internal components of the computer. Wearing an ESD wrist strap will prevent any static electricity from damaging your computer. Another way to ground the static electricity is to touch the internal metal frame of the computer's case while the computer is plugged into an electrical socket. The static electricity will be discharged and grounded as the electrical circuit is grounded via the AC outlet. And to be on the safe side, always handle the electronic circuitry on the motherboard, video card, modem, sound card, hard drive and other internal components by any insulated, non- circuitry areas if they have them to insure that you do not send a bolt of static electricity coursing through it.
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Oh, that! I was puzzling over this - thought he was getting at the dust problem. My own PC gets full of dust, even on a desk a metre high.
I've lived in France and I've lived in the US, and in both countries noticed how electrical apparatus was often unearthed (two pin plug). Here, all appliances are earthed (three pin plugs on everything). And so...Another way to ground the static electricity is to touch the internal metal frame of the computer's case while the computer is plugged into an electrical socket. The static electricity will be discharged and grounded as the electrical circuit is grounded via the AC outlet.
...from straffo's text would apply. I did the assembly on my dining table, which I had covered with a padding of newspaper. Only when I came to run it did I put it on the floor - table needed for monitor and keyboard. Sorry - no hard floors around here! Besides - England being damp as it is...
By the way, AKDejaVu - and I cannot resist saying this - :D When refuelling a light aircraft, one should always connect the anti-static line to the aircraft to guard against a build up of static, which would otherwise become a fire hazard at the moment the gas nozzle came into contact with the area around the filler aperture. Years ago, I flew a Cessna 152 from Eugene (Mahlon Sweet) up to Bend near the Three Sisters Wilderness area. I noticed that pilots were doing their own refuelling. I guess it's just the motorists they don't trust with gas nozzles in Oregon! ROFL - :)
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Concerning the 3 pin plug it depend of the age of the building my house build in 1991 as 3 pin plug everywhere.
In the older it was mandatory only in room with water (bathroom ,"cuisine") and in very very old building you are just lucky to have electricity ;)
I once lived in a house build in 1647 and the electricy war wired in a very strange way (some part of the electricty were from the begining of the 20th century !) I called it the "siberian" wiring :D
for the refuelling when searching on the web I found the following page : http://www.kbmoll.com/invest/iv_static.htm
I never heard of such a phenomenon in france ???
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Static discharge works on a difference in potential. You're outlet's ground is not matching the charge of your carpet. The premise behind grounding an aircraft is to take the potential of the the aircraft and match it to the ground you are standing on (they are just poles in the ground). A 3-way plug does not do this.
Basically, you can still build up a static charge and discharge it through your PC to ground. Depending on the path it takes... that could be bad... especially since the contact would most likely occur through plugging in a card.
The only real way to avoid this is if the PC were plugged in and you had a grounding strap around your wrist that went to the same ground.
Basically, grounding through the power chord does nothing if your carpet is not grounded.
Pssst... you also connect the plane's fuel truck to the same ground as the plane (rubber tires).
AKDejaVu
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Well I've been building/tinkering with PCs for more than 10 years, and I've never had a problem.
Pssst... you also connect the plane's fuel truck to the same ground as the plane (rubber tires).
That assumes the fuel is delivered by truck. In the case of pulling up to a pump, the static line from the pump is fine. What was that "Pssst"? The sound of those rubber tyres being deflated?
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Originally posted by beet1e
As for the rest of the build, no problems at all.
LOL!! You mean you had no problems after the PC wouldn't boot up, and you discovered that you had the floppy cable in the wrong way round. It was only when the floppy drive wouldn't work that this was discovered. Lucky I had my mobile on at the time. :D
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I've always been curious about just how serious a threat static is. When I first started tinkering with computers I was always sure to take precautions against the big bad "S", but the more comfortable I got the less I cared. At this point I've probably had my hands in damn near a thousand computers all without static protection and have never had a problem. Most of these were worked on in my last job in either our IS office or one of several mortgage offices...all with carpeted floors, and most with nasty static potential in the winter months.
What have you guys experienced?
SOB
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Never ever work inside your computer with the power cord plugged in. ATX systems today have a current energizing the mainboard - you WILL damage components if you go plugging and unplugging parts inside the case with this charge present. BEware of outdated material in this regard - you can keep old AT style systems plugged in for a good ground, but it is a bad habit.
As to static electricity, as long as you and the computer are at the same charge state - everythign is cool. If you are in contact with the metal of the case (preferrably the powersupply) you are in touch with the same ground the system board is using. A wrist strap is correct to use, a good thing to use, but not necessary.
Just be sure unplug the computer, and be sure you are grounding yourself to the system before you go handling parts inside (which you likely arleady have been, it is hard to handle a computer without touching the case first).
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I've not had a static problem with a PC either. I believe the systems are much more robust than they used to be and this has almost become a non issue. I wouldn' suggest trying this with any other solid state components though.
I commented on Beetlle's post because it is a classic pic. The "what not to do while building pc's". The second post was finding the "it was plugged in" part equally as funny as it offers zero protection against static.
AKDejaVu
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AKDV I agree only with part of what you said. I agree entirely with Maxtor's post above, especially the part where he says
As to static electricity, as long as you and the computer are at the same charge state - everythign is cool. If you are in contact with the metal of the case (preferrably the powersupply) you are in touch with the same ground the system board is using.
During the assembly of the PC, I would have discharged any static on the way into the room by touching the heating radiator near the door (with my knuckle - fewer nerve endings than the fingertips!). Unfortunately, I still had to walk across the carpet to the dining table. So if there is any risk present, it's pretty much unavoidable, but small. Only when assembly was complete did I move it to the floor. And as Maxtor says, with the power cord plugged in at least, I would be at the same level of charge as the PC - none - assuming I'd just touched the radiator, and not had too much carpet to walk across. The second post was finding the "it was plugged in" part equally as funny as it offers zero protection against static.
Either I disagree entirely, or I've misunderstood. With the PC plugged in, as Maxtor says the case is earthed (grounded) and as the mobo is screwed directly into the case on top of nine steel posts, the internal components are grounded too. If I had picked up any charge, and touched the case, said charge would have been dissipated through the earth. In British homes, the electrical installation is earthed to the plumbing. There's a big terminal attached to the water inlet under my kitchen sink with a green and yellow wire coming off it - that's what that is.
AKDV, I have a question about your PC power cord: Does the plug have 3 pins, or does it have only two? If it has only two (and I suspect that could be the case as many US electrical outlets have only two holes) then I understand your concern. Mine has 3, ensuring that static can never build up. :D
Maxtor - sound advice, although it's worth noting that British electrical outlets as well as always having an earth terminal, have a switch so that the electrical supply can be turned off without unplugging the appliance. Advice given here is to switch off at the mains, but leave the power cord plugged in so that the case is earthed, and static cannot build up, and work on the PC in that state. :eek: But I prefer to make sure everything is discharged, and unplug - even though the Asus mobo has a green power on LED.
Still, it was damp day yesterday, so perhaps all this discussion is moot!
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hehe, this thread started about a CDRW burner. I burnt a CD as a test of that TDK cyclone burner - soundtrack to "Night at the Roxbury". The read phase took about a minute, and the burn took only three minutes. :eek: I was impressed! Especially considering how little it cost.
Anyway, Sally the cleaning lady has taken the PC away now. We had to put the case on the floor of the back seat of her Vauxhall Frontera- on a c-c-c-carpet!
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All standard us computer plugs are 3-prong, and unless the house is old, it will have grounded outlets as well. However, how would the case be earth grounded through the outlet with an ATX power supply that doesn't have a ground wire lead attached to the case? Honest question...I don't know.
SOB
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SOB,
The earth terminal on the case would be connected to the body of the case somewhere, and the ATX power supply is screwed onto the earthed case, as is the mobo.
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Beetle, please stop. If you'd worked with real static sensitive devices before you'd understand why you wear a grounding strap around your wrist and clip it to the device you're working on while staning on an insulated non-conducting pad.
If you're case is grounded, and you touch the motherboard, you send the difference in potential through the motherboard to the ground. It travels across the circuits of the motherboard.
If you keep standing on carpeting, you are standing on a surface that will constantly be at a different potential than any grounded object. The only way to protect the device is if a strap is clipped to it, then around your wrist.
Also, NEVER WORK ON AN ENERGIZED DEVICE WITH TWO HANDS. Once again, if you've worked on functioning electronic devices where they had to be powered up, you'd know why this is the case.
There is no condition where working on a PC while standing on carpeted surface could be considered electrostatically safe.
AKDejaVu
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OK, AKDV - I've stopped. Thanks for your advice. YES - you make a good point about if I were charged up, and then touched the mobo - as you say that could be disastrous. But the precautions I have taken (above) have worked for me down the years. My house is carpeted throughout - except the kitchen, so I just have to take the risk!
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You have carpet in your bathroom? And I though only Rip was crazy enough to carpet his garage?! :D
SOB