Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: muckmaw on December 30, 2002, 11:31:17 AM
-
I've got limited time on this type, but I finally crawled out of my F6F to give it a try.
I see the Chog has 20mms. Nice. But what's the difference between the C and the other models? What warrants the Perks?
And can someone tell me why (no, this is not a troll, just an honest question) the LA-7, P-51D, Spitfire, and 109 are not perked?
They must be superior planes as that's what I see in the arena more than anything else.
So in essence, what does the C have that the other planes mentioned above do not, that warrants perking it?
-
because the chog used to get near 20% of the kills in ah. There was only 200 made and it unbalanced the main.
Not the la7 niki spit or 51 or 109 has that impact on the main.
At the time I coulda cared less but after it was perked the I think HT made the right choice. Its a cheap perk anyway.
-
But what makes the plane so great that it got 20% of the kills?
I have really only flown it a little.
Is it a great turner? Really fast? Armamnet?
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
But what makes the plane so great that it got 20% of the kills?
I have really only flown it a little.
Is it a great turner? Really fast? Armamnet?
The guns and the ammo load.
-
Back then, I think it was underweight or something. It performed somewhat better than it does now. Also, back when we had the old flight model, the one that was incorrect, it was the best plane for getting a quick kill and not burning a lot of E.
Personally, I didn't mind it. The perking did add some variety to the game though. Glad it is a cheap perk.
-
I just flew the C for the first time since it was perked this past weekend, the fact that a dweeb like me can land 10 kills in it the first flight in over a year shows why it's perked.
-
it wasnt perked until after the weight was fixed and new flight model.
All it needs are those hizookas to get 20% of the kills.
-
So bottom line, it's the guns that make it a perked plane?
-
It was perked because it was a heavily gunned beast that became a little over used in the MA, perhaps it's time to reduce it's perk level or maybe un perk it and perk the La7 and Niki which seem to dominate the area's now.
-
I actually do better with the D myself? Anyway I think perking the La7, P-51D, 190 D-9 and 109G-10 the same 10 perks would be fine.
Edited to add the Dora :)
-
no it was perked because it got 20% kills in the main. The niki and la7 dont have anyway near the impact that the chog had.
It wasnt perked on performane or gun package. Its been explained to you clear as day. It wouldnt matter if it had 7mm but if it got 20% it would most likely get perked.
-
It was perked while there was a different strat system than the one we use presently. At the time, it was the ultimate JABO ride.
I think the C-Hog perk is something that should be reconsidered. The arena isn't the same now.
-
If my memory is correct.... Its not because its an uber plane as much as it was a very low production A/C.
From what I have learned, It seems the reason planes get perked are two fold. One is the Production/useage of its real life counterpart. The other is game play.
I guess HT would have to answer if it was one or the other or both.
The F4U-C isnt really a better preformer, But the Large Ammo loadout of the big cannons make it pretty lethal. You can Spray and Pray with those Cannons for a long time.
-
I see the Chog has 20mms. Nice. But what's the difference between the C and the other models? What warrants the Perks?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Wotan said...
-
people are still confused as to why we have perks in the first place.
They are simply to balance out the numbers of planes in the arena. As stated, we had gobs of C's running around the arena.. so much so that one got sick of seeing them.
It's nice to have variety... I think we could use a little more 'balancing' actually :)
-
I undertand perfectly now, Wotan. Thank you.
So the 1C was perked because it was limited production and was unbalancing the arena.
Now, along the same line of thought, would it not make sense to perk the LA-7, and Spitfire due to their proliferation in the arena?
Or do they not account for much as far as kills go? I would have to go back and check the kill ratio for these planes, but I am tired of seeing the same planes all the time. I've seen alot of Yaks lately, and thats refreshing.
What's the ammo load on the C-hog vs. that of the Spit or the La-7? I assume they all use 20mms? Please excuse the ignorance on this.
-
Muck 'ol buddy ... do you need me to post the picture of ...
"How about a cup of ..." ?
You got your answer about the C-HOG ... leave the rest alone ... LOL ... <> ;)
-
The F4U-1C, unperked, was (and probably still would be) terribly unbalancing. Simply put, it's probably the most versatile aircraft in Aces High.
Not only does it sport four 20mm Hispano cannons (with more ammo and a tighter spread than the Typhoon), but it also carries an enormous amount of ordinance for base attack. Couple that with the fact that it also may take off from carriers, and you have a plane with nearly unmatched firepower that can take off from just about anywhere. P-38s, P-47s, and Typhoons aren't CV-ready, so they can't just up two minutes from a base with a full load of bombs, rockets, and 20mm.
Flight characteristics-wise, it's not the greatest plane in the world, but it's not the worst. It's certainly one of the faster carrier-based planes, rolling very well and handling nicely at medium to high speeds.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
That's why we need the Ki84-1a
-
Oh and before Whels chimes in, the F8F also, but not before the Hayate ;)
-
F4U-1C was perked because it had 4 Hispanos with a ton of ammo. It could also carry 2,000 pounds worth of bombs and rockets.
No, that wasn't the direct reason it was perked. The direct reason was that it was the easiest way to kill stuff in the game, so everyone used it. We are still going through a 'sorting out' period while people decide which of the Big 4 is "best", then that will be the new C-Hog for a few months.
Was doing some checking up on the 'plane stats', I think the trend of 'diversifying' is reversing. I was seeing more and more Spits, N1Ks, La7s, and P-51s, and less of everything else. I thought I was possibly imagining it, but I wasn't. Granted, this tour hasn't ended yet, but I'll give you my preliminary results.
Tour 35: Top 12 planes (as of about 3 am in the morning, Dec 28, when I was doing it)
1. P-51D - 38,607 (10.4%)
2. Spit IX - 34,702 (9.4%)
3. La-7 - 33,182 (8.9%)
4. N1K2 - 26,121 (7.0%)
5. Typhoon - 21,432 (5.8%)
6. F6F-5 - 15,791 (4.2%)
7. Spit V - 15,625 (4.2%)
8. 190D-9 - 14,697 (3.9%)
9. P-38L - 14,269 (3.8%)
10. 109G10- 14,118 (3.8%)
11. Seafire - 13,556 (3.6%)
12. F4U-1D - 11,897 (3.2%)
The criteria for picking em was they were a fighter, and they had over 10,000 kills. Only 12 fighters have had over 10,000 kills for the past 3 months, I believe they stayed the same (I could be wrong tho, it was late). The total number of kills scored by fighters was 370,837 (so far ). I just got the kill counts, don't care what they killed or how. Just some interesting stuff :
Tour 35 (so far)
% of kills by the top 12 planes : 68.2%
% of kills by the top 10 planes: 61.4%
% of kills by the top 5 planes: 41.5%
Tour 34 :
% of kills by the top 12 planes: 67%
% of kills by the top 10 planes: 61.1%
% of kills by the top 5 planes: 41.2%
I know this is a "Luftwhine", but when people say "All I see are Spits, N1K2s, La7s, and P51s".. they may be telling the truth. Remember that the different Spit marks aren't differentiated, they all say "Spit"- and you pretty much fight the Spit IX and the Spit V the same way, so it doesn't matter (to me anyway) which mark it is.
Not counting the Spit I or the Spit XIV (they didn't get enough kills for me to bother), the:
% of kills the "Spits, N1Ks, La7s, and P-51s" have in:
Tour 35: 43.5%
Tour 34: 41%
Granted, the percentage of kills for a Tour doesn't tell us exactly what the percentage of planes flying in the arena at any given time are, but I think if anything it understates it. I personally think that the Spit, N1K, La7, and P-51 (my so-called "Big 4") are seeing about 60% of the fighter sorties in the MA. I don't know of any good way to check that though.
Anyway, thats my little Luftwhine for today I guess.
-
Numbers of aircraft built in real life has *NEVER* had any bearing on perk aircraft selection or cost.
-
compare la7 usage to the chog you will see why the la7 doesnt have the impact the chog had. Thats what you keep missing read Urchins post search the kill stats going back to when the chog was unperked and compare with the la7 niki spit p51 or any of the top 5 killers in ah and you will see the chog greatly unbalanced the arena. Dont insert anything into why the chog is perked but that.
Its not on production, performance or guns.
The plane got nearlt 20% of the kills in the main. Go check see whats the highest % of kills the la7 ever had.
The chog was perked because it unbalanced the main. Period. Doesnt matter what gun, what color, what year, how many or how fast.
Now why did the chog have that impact? Read Levi's post.
The only other plane that is even close is the p51d and even then it shouldnt be perked until it equals the unbalancing nature of the chog.
There are other planes in ah that are faster and carry 4 hizookas. The Typh for one. The Hurri IIc has 4 hizookas. But neither impact the main in the Chog did.
HT didnt perk the chog on a whim. It took a few tours of them adjusting the eny until it could get no lower. As I said I didnt think much about but in the long run I think a lot of folks agree it was good call.
-
When people complain "all I see are..." the first response should be "what were you in?".
If you were in a fighter, you'd see a significantly different picture than if you were in a bomber or a GV. That does matter immensely. And that does change the order of the top 12 significantly.
AKDejaVu
-
Not only do those planes each have less than half the number of kills the -1C had at the height of its popularity, they all have a considerably worse K/D ratio too.
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Muck 'ol buddy ... do you need me to post the picture of ...
"How about a cup of ..." ?
You got your answer about the C-HOG ... leave the rest alone ... LOL ... <> ;)
Alright, Slappy, if that's the way you want it, I'll just have to annoy you with my stupid questions on squad channel all night.
Thanks!
Oh, and your gear's down.:)
-
Numbers are nice and interesting, but they don't always paint the correct picture.
Which country flew the most Spits the last 2 tours ?
My guess would be the Rooks ... why ... because that is one of the best defensive planes around. Rooks being outnumbered like they were, and always on the defense, probably upped many Spits to protect their fields.
Very rarely do I see Spits flown offensively .. why ... poor ammo load. I won't fly a Spit for any extended distance to attack a base to run out of ammo in a short period of time, nor does it have any JABO capabilities to speak of.
Which country flew the most La-7s the last 2 tours ?
Again, a vey good defensive plane. My preference. Its also the best "Goon Hunter" around. Offensive intial base strike ... bah ... useless. Again, no JABO to speak of. Only time I will fly this plane offensively to a base is after I have JABOed and died. This will get me back to the action the fastest to relieve/support the guys who are still around trying to CAP.
N1Ks ... probably the best "Vulcher" in the hanger. This plane is reasonably fast ... great ammo and loadout ... a good turner, and climbs very well.
P51s .. I have to admit .. they are all over the place. This plane can do it all ... JABO ... Vulch ... Bounce ... BnZ ... and turn fight (only by experienced P51 jocks) and when in trouble ... they can run like no other.
None of these planes deserves to be perked. Each has it own weakness and can die as quickly as it can kill.
When I fly with the MAW on squad nights, I fly offensively, most of the other nights, I fly more defensively. What I see more of than anything else are 190s and 109s. They don't seem to have the number of kills to make the list, but when a base is under attack, I rarely see Spits or La-7s. Mostly P51s, all type of JABOs, and a lot of those high 190s and 109s just waitin' for the "bounce".
Urchin .. do you get any numbers on how many flights each aircraft had ?
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
When people complain "all I see are..." the first response should be "what were you in?".
If you were in a fighter, you'd see a significantly different picture than if you were in a bomber or a GV. That does matter immensely. And that does change the order of the top 12 significantly.
AKDejaVu
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Deja. Could you explain further. I'm either in an F6F or a B-26 (Most tours) and I really don't see the difference. I pretty much see the same planes. (Ponies, Spits, La-7s, and 109's).
Wotan, your post makes perfect sense, and I thank you for the information.
I'm going to have to try this hog out a little more, and see if she's worth the perks.
-
Originally posted by Wilfrid
Numbers of aircraft built in real life has *NEVER* had any bearing on perk aircraft selection or cost.
I stand corrected.
somewhere along the line I must have gotten the wrong impression.
Just to ask a question, has HT ever official explained the Perk system??
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Very rarely do I see Spits flown offensively .. why ... poor ammo load. I won't fly a Spit for any extended distance to attack a base to run out of ammo in a short period of time
Eh? Both the Spit IX and the Spit V have quite a lot of highly lethal ammo.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
You guys are talking about this 20% but also remember we had far less choices when we needed to select a ride. At this date, trying to compare our plane usuage with the old Chog 20% is irrelevant.
The LA7 is not that bad yet because most frustrated new low/average skill pilot is getting one, hoping to rely on her performances to survive the MA.
HTC decision not to perk it always puzzled me. What is saddening me is seing numerous LA7s everytime I find a fight. What really makes me mad, and I can't blame them for doing so, are the ones runing away when u settle in their 6 (think P47), and coming back to catch you from 3k away when you try to RTB with 3 spits in your 6.:D
Their high numbers don't encourage the MA pilot to use a "medium plane" to have fun, but more a "ubber something"(speed/gun package or turn) to have a chance to compete.:o
-
Eh? Both the Spit IX and the Spit V have quite a lot of highly lethal ammo.
compared to the Chog ????
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Eh? Both the Spit IX and the Spit V have quite a lot of highly lethal ammo.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Oh .. I forgot to say .. Lev ... your not allowed to defend Spits. :D
Yes .. they have lethal ammo (cannons) but not a lot of it, and MOST Spit flyers don't fit into the "Lev" categoy of flying Spits, so ammo is a consideration.
-
HTC doesn't have any reason to perk any of the Big 4 yet. None of them have really reached the level of the C-Hog as far as overall use goes.
As far as flying a some other plane , well that is your decision. There really isn't any reason to put yourself at a disadvantage unless you want to.
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The F4U-1C, unperked, was (and probably still would be) terribly unbalancing. Simply put, it's probably the most versatile aircraft in Aces High.
Not only does it sport four 20mm Hispano cannons (with more ammo and a tighter spread than the Typhoon), but it also carries an enormous amount of ordinance for base attack. Couple that with the fact that it also may take off from carriers, and you have a plane with nearly unmatched firepower that can take off from just about anywhere. P-38s, P-47s, and Typhoons aren't CV-ready, so they can't just up two minutes from a base with a full load of bombs, rockets, and 20mm.
Flight characteristics-wise, it's not the greatest plane in the world, but it's not the worst. It's certainly one of the faster carrier-based planes, rolling very well and handling nicely at medium to high speeds.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Perfect write up, HTC could put this in the FAQ under why is chog perked. :D
-
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Their high numbers don't encourage the MA pilot to use a "medium plane" to have fun, but more a "ubber something"(speed/gun package or turn) to have a chance to compete.:o
You know Frenchy .. you ALMOST "hit the nail on the head". The key word is FUN and if some pilots didn't have the option to fly these so-called "uber" planes, they wouldn't have FUN, or as you put it ... "have a chance to compete". January will complete my 1st year flying AH, and if I didn't have the Spit IX to start with, I wouldn't have lasted a month. That plane did give me a chance to compete, even tho I got my bellybutton handed countless times, that plane allowed me to at least shoot down some other planes and kept the fire going. This has to hold true for alot of the newcomers to AH.
Right now, there isn't anyting that I can't fly, just ones that I prefer, just like you ... it just isn't the P47. I like it alot, just prefer other planes at the moment. My preferences are mine and mine alone and never will I suggest to others to fly anything other than what they want and neither should anybody else.
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Deja. Could you explain further. I'm either in an F6F or a B-26 (Most tours) and I really don't see the difference. I pretty much see the same planes. (Ponies, Spits, La-7s, and 109's).
Wotan, your post makes perfect sense, and I thank you for the information.
No, it doesn't... not given that a plane like the Dora is seldomely used against ground vehicles.
Guess how many more fighter kills the N1K has than the Dora?
AKDejaVu
-
Sorry SlapShot but your post makes waaaay too much sense for this BB, maybe next time.... :D
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
if some pilots didn't have the option to fly these so-called "uber" planes, they wouldn't have FUN
There is a big difference between an uber-plane, and a plane newbies can do welll in. You mention the spit9, which while an extremly common plane, excellent for newbies, and a generally great MA plane, is not "uber". The same applies to the n1k2 and p51, the other most common planes. The la7 on the other hand offers perk performance, in the altitude ranges in which virtually all fighting happens, for free.
Bah, Ya know you're right, thats why we should unperk everything. I'm a bad pilot, so I need to fly the best plane in order to have fun. So I should be able to fly the 262 constantly, just so I can have fun. :rolleyes:
We don't need to have "better" planes available for newbies. While everyone would like to be able to fly something that will dominate anything the run into, that doesn't mean it's needed.
-
Right now I have 253 kills in the fighter category of which about 190 are in the chog. I have a total of 314 kills in the chog. This plane really helps with kills per time. I think it needs to stay perked.
I recall one sortie I killed 17 planes without getting anywhere near the enemies field. Then a b26 knocked half my wing off and I had to land. How many planes can you land on a cv with only half a wing?
-
I gotta agree with Slapshot
When I first tried AH, I jumped in a F6F for the first month and, while learning a great deal about turn fighting, I got my bellybutton handed to me all the time.
If it wasn't for me using the 51D as training wheels for a few months in Aces High I woulda probably quite from utter frustration.
-
I remember the bad old days prior to the perking of the chog, there was no such thing as a nose to nose merge without spraying. For some reason the chog if more deadly in that respect than the tiff..dont know why.
I can just imagine the HO screaming that would be going on now if the chog was flown in the numbers that it used to be, its MUCH more deadly than a 110 or jug in the headon shot.
shamus
-
Yeah, I too disagreed with it's perking at the time, but I think it worked out pretty well. It's nice to take the beast up from time to time to do bomber intercepts so you can witness with awe, the power of those guns. I'd hate to get into a dogfight with it tho'.
Urchin...I don't know if the stats are consistent with last month (I don't check), but the P51d might be getting higher usage this month because of the purty new art. I know I switched this month to flying the d from the b for that very reason....I'll probably get bored and end up back in the b tho'.
SOB
-
plus the ever increasing subscriber base... all the Noobs heard about how the p-51 "won" the war and just have to try it out.
-
That's a good point too. It was Warbirds that got me interested in WWII, not the other way around like a lot of guys here. When I started I knew what a Spitfire, Mustang, and a B17 were and I'd heard of the LuftWaffe, but had no idea what they flew, and that's about it. Hell, the only corsair I knew about was the A-7E type. :D
SOB
-
plus the ever increasing subscriber base... all the Noobs heard about how the p-51 "won" the war and just have to try it out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep I remember my first time in the MA guess which fighter I upped in? P51D of course but then I couldn't handle the spins kept dying so I switched to yep the La7 but then I was getting kills too easily and I knew I wasn't right being a noob so I switched again. To the spits lol but then I was getting killed all the time so I switched to flying buffs mostly and limiting my fighter sorties :D then the bomber changes came in and I stopped flying bombers for the most part. I'm now flying the higher 'perk getting' planes unless the situation requires a dweeb plane.
-
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
You guys are talking about this 20% but also remember we had far less choices when we needed to select a ride. At this date, trying to compare our plane usuage with the old Chog 20% is irrelevant.
The LA7 is not that bad yet because most frustrated new low/average skill pilot is getting one, hoping to rely on her performances to survive the MA.
HTC decision not to perk it always puzzled me. What is saddening me is seing numerous LA7s everytime I find a fight. What really makes me mad, and I can't blame them for doing so, are the ones runing away when u settle in their 6 (think P47), and coming back to catch you from 3k away when you try to RTB with 3 spits in your 6.:D
Their high numbers don't encourage the MA pilot to use a "medium plane" to have fun, but more a "ubber something"(speed/gun package or turn) to have a chance to compete.:o
couldnt be more in agreement frenchy.
-
Originally posted by Shane
plus the ever increasing subscriber base... all the Noobs heard about how the p-51 "won" the war and just have to try it out.
Good point about the artwork SOB, I hadn't thought of that.
Shane, actually the P51 usage hasn't increased 'dramatically'.
Out of the top 12 planes here was the change in use (so far)
1. P51 - 10.4% (9.3%) +1.1%
2. Spit IX - 9.4% (8.7%) +0.7%
3. La7 - 8.9% (8.7%) +0.2%
4. N1K2 - 7.0% (8.2) -1.2%
5. Typhoon - 5.8% (6.3%) - 0.5%
6. F6F-5 - 4.2% (3.8%) +0.4%
7. Spit V - 4.2% (3.6%) +0.6%
8. 190d-9 - 3.9% (4.2%) -0.3%
9. P-38L - 3.9% (4.3%) -0.4%
10. 109G-10 - 3.8% (4.0%) -0.2%
11. Seafire - 3.6% (2.5%) +1.1%
12. F4U-1D - 3.2% (3.4%) - 0.2%
Negative changes are in bold. Note the large increase (percentage-wise) in the Seafire, that one kind of surprised me.
-
The Hog C was getting 20% when we had no rotating terrains, the Chog was about 6-8 weeks "new" and the Isles terrain was released (with all the brand spanking new CV's)We did not have rotating terrains at that time I believe, and we were in "NDIsles" terrain for about 3 months straight. Then the LW starting whining. ;)
FYI, the Tiffy has the same guns, and flies faster...carries the same bomb load out. But during the Isles tenure, it could not launch from a CV. ;)
-
Tiff carries 2/3 the rounds..and has to choose between eggs or rockets
-
I don't understand Problem. As long as everyone has same choice, Why complain about la7, nik, spit 9 or p51d. or is it guys who wan't others to fly easier planes for them to shoot?
I could careless what other guy is flying. Part of the fun is beating a better plane with a 190a5 or la5 or spit v. Or beating a p51d or la7 in a spit 9.
If I want a fair fight same plane then I go to DA.
over 1300 kills this tod only 135 in la7,p51 and spit 9 combined. never flew niki this tod.
-
You can't compare percentages when the base has changed significantly. As an exaggerated example, if we have just two aircraft choices and even if used evenly, they'll be used 50% of the time. You wouldn't want to carry that forward when you have ten aircraft choices and start making comparisons. Yes, it's an exaggerated example, but I think it makes the point a few have brought up in here. So using a percentage from a plane-set more than 1.5 years old doesn't work anymore. I missed the whole C-Hog thing, but from what Ripsnort posted it seems reasonable why its useage would be so high. But I guess those who are American-Iron fans can't fly anything armed with more than one cannon.
Basically though, the preference for a cannon armed Corsair seems to show to me there is something wrong with the damage or ballistics model [in the Aces High game] because it wasn't deemed necessary in the actual Pacific War. In fact, the Hellcats (-3 and -5 variants) could carry cannons in place of the machine guns but was never utilized during the war.
-
I thought the cannon version was dropped due to problems with the hispano? I recently saw a clip of guys arming a chog ammo belt and they were laying the grease with a brush to the linkages as they loaded the shells.
-
Relatively new as I might be I have my own thoughts about the 'fun' factor. I guess most people play for fun right? :D
Throughout my 'career' I resisted the temptation to fly the N1K2, Spit IX, La-7 and P-51D often. Why? I figured I would learn more if I used 'harder' planes. I fly the FM2 mostly, but also some Yak flying, La-5 and every now and then a P-47, Mossie,Hurri IIc, Spit I even. All with very different characteristics and armament.
This is challenging and in the beginning suicidal too :D But it was and still is also a great deal of fun! Most of my deaths these days are pure carelessness, I just pick a good position to start a fight, blow up a few guys, get very pleased with meself, don't check six or don't notice the Osti shooting at me and kaboom. If I 'read' the fight well and pick my engagements wisely and weasily :D I almost never get suprised anymore.
But this has nothing to do with the C-Hog... I do not particularly like Corsairs (vicious stalls, can't knife fight, can't build energy quickly, not fast enough) but maybe I can use my truckload of perks for it, because to this day I never used a single one of them.
-
A fine LA7/N2K whine in disguise, muck.
-
The P-51 has been the most prevalent fighter in the MA for many tours, not just this one.
Yet people complain about the numbers of La-7s.
-
one thing i positively hate about the la7 is it's tendancy to spin when you pull too hard, no matter what the speed. (worse as you go slower though)
-
as if it is not obvious...
excellent e retention...
carrier based....
4 potatoe shooters...
excellent flight at all speeds....
(initial flight model was ufo...)
Thats why it was perked...
PS: Torque would cheat in it... :p
-
Animal-
You are much too perceptive for me, pal.
I thought I was going to get away with it too!
Do I get a special "Stealth-Whine" award?
This did turn out to be a very clear, mature, and informative thread. The only one I've seen in a while, I might add.
WTG Animal!
-
All by itself with an experienced driver, a Chog can kill a VH at an air base, de-ack the airbase, and still have plenty of ammo to vulch the snot out of it.
The Chog is the original Vulch-O-Matic.
eskimo
-
Originally posted by Innominate
There is a big difference between an uber-plane, and a plane newbies can do welll in. You mention the spit9, which while an extremly common plane, excellent for newbies, and a generally great MA plane, is not "uber". The same applies to the n1k2 and p51, the other most common planes. The la7 on the other hand offers perk performance, in the altitude ranges in which virtually all fighting happens, for free.
Bah, Ya know you're right, thats why we should unperk everything. I'm a bad pilot, so I need to fly the best plane in order to have fun. So I should be able to fly the 262 constantly, just so I can have fun. :rolleyes:
We don't need to have "better" planes available for newbies. While everyone would like to be able to fly something that will dominate anything the run into, that doesn't mean it's needed.
I have never used the word "uber" pertaining to any plane. Notice it said "so-called" ...
What exactly does "uber" mean ? Does it infer that the plane(s) actually perform above and beyond what the real planes were actually capable of. If so, then some real hard proof should be put forth. Or, is it used when one planes advantages outweigh the plane that you are flying, which make you an easy kill ? My opinion would lean towards the latter.
What really makes a plane "uber", IMO, is the person controlling the stick. For example, Mathman (<>) kicks serious bellybutton in his F6F consistently and makes it look easy ... is that plane "uber". Same goes for French is a P47 or Lev in a Spit V. Would these guys score more kills than they already get if they flew any of these so-called "uber" planes ?
I can fly any fighter against any other fighter, and If I fly to my planes strengths and the other planes weaknesses, then odds are I will win ... same goes for any other pilot in AH. The difference is that guys like me (and there are a lot of them) are STILL learning these weaknesses and strengths, along with advanced ACM.
The La-7 has perk performance ... hmmmm ... don't agree with you 100% there. What else makes the La-7 "uber", and for that fact, I would like to see a the list of atttributes that make all these so-called" "uber" planes, "uber". I am not trying to be a wise guys here, I just don't see it. All the planes that are tagged "uber" are very killable from where I sit. Ya just got to get them into that "killable" zone. If you don't, then its something that you did wrong.
My post never inferred that we should lift perks off of all planes for the sake of fun ... what I was saying is that the current setup that we have now should be left alone.
-
The La-7 has perk performance ... hmmmm ... don't agree with you 100% there. What else makes the La-7 "uber", and for that fact, I would like to see a the list of atttributes that make all these so-called" "uber" planes, "uber". I am not trying to be a wise guys here, I just don't see it. All the planes that are tagged "uber" are very killable from where I sit. Ya just got to get them into that "killable" zone. If you don't, then its something that you did wrong.
Slapshot, I find that what how much time people spend in different planes colors their perception. In your case, for example, while the LA7 is by far your prefered ride, I wonder if you would be surprised to learn that it is still killing you more than you kill it?
slapshot has 251 kills and has been killed 119 times in the La-7.
slapshot has 8 kills and has been killed 10 times in the La-7 against the La-7.
-
maxtor ... Interesting, but if these stats are trying to disprove my statement that the La-7 is very killable, then these stats must come into play ...
La-7 - Kills in = 251 ... Kills of = 24
La-7 - Killed by = 16 ... Died in = 119
So its 24 to 16 ... I win !!!
or take a look at my Tour 32 stats ...
FM2 - Kills in = 247 ... Kills of = 9
La-7 - Kills in = 73 ... Kills of = 48
La-7 - Killed by = 22 ... Died in = 45
The FM2 has no problem wacking La-7s when flown to its strengths.
Where did you go to get those other stats ? I would like to see them. They would appear to be much more granular than those available on the HTC page.
-
I would love to know how you catch the LA-7 in an FM2.
I assume you need alot of altitude, and get the LA to commit to a turn fight.
AmI correct on this or am I due for another session in the TA?
-
Originally posted by Puke
Basically though, the preference for a cannon armed Corsair seems to show to me there is something wrong with the damage or ballistics model [in the Aces High game] because it wasn't deemed necessary in the actual Pacific War. In fact, the Hellcats (-3 and -5 variants) could carry cannons in place of the machine guns but was never utilized during the war.
The Real world Chog didn't have to shoot down a lot of B-17s, or other well armoured planes. But in the MA they do. If my main adversary was the Zero and the Betty, I'd probably stick with the 6 50s. too ;)
-Sik
-
They are available off the main homepage, but here is a direct link:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/scores/statsframe.html
this is also very good:
http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats.php
-
Yes Muck ... the good 'ol bounce.
The FM2 drops like a rock (very quickly) and handles very well under high speed. Get some decent alt (5-10K) and drop in and say hello.
or
When the bounce you and they believe that they can turn with you. Snap-shots with those .50 cals are very deadly.
-
No problem.
At least the thread was civilized :)
I wish all whines were this original and stylish
I give you a 9 out of 10
the only thing lacking was minus style typing. Here is an example:
"chog perked a years ago and it not near as good as la7, niki not near as good :rolleyes:
but when LW planes r good hitech porks it becose american planes r best of world in hitech eyes :rolleyes:"
-
IMO, you guys are confused about what plane usage means, this is very different than % of kills, unless K/D = 1.
If you want to calculate plane usage, use only number of deaths as a much more accurate factor.
You can die only once per sortie, while u can get several kills each one.
-
Originally posted by GPreddy
Right now I have 253 kills in the fighter category of which about 190 are in the chog. I have a total of 314 kills in the chog. This plane really helps with kills per time. I think it needs to stay perked.
I recall one sortie I killed 17 planes without getting anywhere near the enemies field. Then a b26 knocked half my wing off and I had to land. How many planes can you land on a cv with only half a wing?
what can anyone say? you a hell of a cherrypicker/ ack runner hide in the CV ack type guy
:cool:
-
You dont know diddly x2lee. You cant cherry pick bombers since they all carry rear firing guns. How many buffs have YOU killed this tour? Looks like about 50 out of 374 kills (including all kinds of buffs). I have 354 out of 1368. Clearly a much higher ratio on my part even if you exclude the goons. :)
You are shirking your duty to your country by allowing those bombers to get past you.
-
Originally posted by GPreddy
You are shirking your duty to your country by allowing those bombers to get past you.
Amen. :D :p
Happy New Year
-
Originally posted by GPreddy
You dont know diddly x2lee. You cant cherry pick bombers since they all carry rear firing guns. How many buffs have YOU killed this tour? Looks like about 50 out of 374 kills (including all kinds of buffs). I have 354 out of 1368. Clearly a much higher ratio on my part even if you exclude the goons. :)
You are shirking your duty to your country by allowing those bombers to get past you.
knowing how you rarely venture past your own field, you most likely wait til the bombers are on their runs and in their bombsights before attackking them what is usually a high, fast, cannon armed plane. (this would be cherrypicking and discounting your argument about them all having rear firing guns.)
of course, being around your fleet in the chog, you get a lot of prox kills due to acks.
dunno how many you actually kill before theydrop eggs, tho'
:)
-
Wrong again oh mighty labeller of donkey spittle. You dont get points for prox kills, and following your logic about waiting until they are dropping would mean I would never die. I attack buff forms usually runing in pairs and I take lots of hits. I guess the guys are so busy with their bombing that they have to bring a gunner along. It doesnt help them.
-
Originally posted by GPreddy
Wrong again oh mighty labeller of donkey spittle. You dont get points for prox kills.
what does getting points have anything to do with what i said?
u do get *credit* but not points.
nice red herring attempt, tho'
:D
-
If you dont get it yet you never will.
-
What you cant see in that picture is the form of b17s right behind them and the 262 flown by spqr1 attempting to cover them. teufl in the b26s didnt live beyond three passes and tatertot in the lancs died shortly after that. I had taken so much damage from the b26s that 999000 in the b17s downed me pretty easily but I didnt stop attacking just because I was hit. spqr1 got within 23 yards but wasted ammo trying to shoot me.
I dont see the fleet in this picture but since were still ten miles from it I wouldnt expect to. I guess hiding in the friendly ack and waiting for prox kills got my confused and off course.
-
The F4U-C was used way too much by some really lame pilots that didn't respect it. All they did was went around HOing all night long. I for one flew it the way it was supposed to be flown, I still do for that matter. The difference between then and now is that when it was perked it was the best ride for almost everything. Now things have changed. With the la7, niki, Spit 9 I really doubt that the F4U-C would get the use that it used to.
I think they should either unperk my baby, or perk the la7 for sure.
But I also don't really care if they do either, I will still fly it as my primary ride either way.
Booky
-
Originally posted by Wilfrid
Numbers of aircraft built in real life has *NEVER* had any bearing on perk aircraft selection or cost.
If it was the case the 109 would have a negative perk point cost ;)
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
But what makes the plane so great that it got 20% of the kills?
I have really only flown it a little.
Is it a great turner? Really fast? Armamnet?
I think at the time of 'perking' they also added weight to the plane that was more inline with the historical documents. That and the the perking officially nuetered the plane. I think a better approach would have been to add the weight, then wait a tour or two and see the result.
This is from info I derived from this BBS, it could well be way off the mark, as far as in what HTC did to the plane.
-
Originally posted by hogenbor
Relatively new as I might be I have my own thoughts about the 'fun' factor. I guess most people play for fun right? :D
Throughout my 'career' I resisted the temptation to fly the N1K2, Spit IX, La-7 and P-51D often. Why? I figured I would learn more if I used 'harder' planes. I fly the FM2 mostly, but also some Yak flying, La-5 and every now and then a P-47, Mossie,Hurri IIc, Spit I even. All with very different characteristics and armament.
I've never taken that approach, I always fly the uber 205, untill HTC decides that the Re2005 IS a good idea :D
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Muck 'ol buddy ... do you need me to post the picture of ...
"How about a cup of ..." ?
Please do, I lost it in a format, would love to have it back. Also the picture of the CHIPS guy pointing at ya proclaiming 'YOU'RE A HOMO' was a classic. Anyone that has it and could post it, it would be appreciated :)
-
Originally posted by Wotan
compare la7 usage to the chog you will see why the la7 doesnt have the impact the chog had. Thats what you keep missing read Urchins post search the kill stats going back to when the chog was unperked and compare with the la7 niki spit p51 or any of the top 5 killers in ah and you will see the chog greatly unbalanced the arena. Dont insert anything into why the chog is perked but that.
Its not on production, performance or guns.
The plane got nearlt 20% of the kills in the main. Go check see whats the highest % of kills the la7 ever had.
The chog was perked because it unbalanced the main. Period. Doesnt matter what gun, what color, what year, how many or how fast.
Thus, the reason for perking the 152.
-
Frankly the perking of the C-Hog represents more of the imbalance of the cannon armed A/C in AH than anything.
Honestly, other than the fact that there were 200 made what is the great advantage?
It is not as fast as many.
It doesn't out turn many.
It dosn't climb well at all.
It has difficult stall characteristics.
Also it has the same guns package as the Tiffy and Hurri. The 190A5/8, NIK2 have compareble guns.
So 20% of people chose it in the MA? Would that justify perking the P-51D or Spit? I think there would be a revolution.
-
Hehe, not quite as good as GPreddy's epic sortie, but not bad. I had just finished strafing the town, so did not have a full ammo load when I turned to engage some cons that had come in as others were upping.
I just thought I'd post MY screenshot, because I know it pisses Lazs off - lol! :D
-
F4U-1C with 9273 kills 3660 deaths turns in a better performance than the more expensively perked F4U4 and Ta152. It's a much better investment than either of those others.
-
flew 2 missions in one last night
first got straifed at 3k by a la7 , he had a prusuer on him and i manuverd (thanks to 6 call) and missed all but a few pings lost one elv and on elron returned to base and landed did ground loop on landing tho :)
second mission got 6 kills 2 assists 4 mans kills ( arial combat away from base ) one of wich was "gman" hehe and 2 that were upping at a enmy base.
returned and landed. just a great all around aircraft. and it used much much better. both cannons and guns i actualy hated torque and made my day to kill him.
i honestly believe if the cannons had been that good tho they would have continued making them. or that is was a crime that they didnt.
-
The C-hog is perked for a single reason...Torque...not the physics effect...the pilot. Easily the best snapshot artist in the game and and outstanding stick. Combining that with 4 x 20mm and 850+ rds and you had a massacre on your hands. A lot of folks with less ability started to fly it and you had a HO slug fest for months. Truthfully it's the only perk ride worth flying:)...a great plane with unequaled leathality.
-
Originally posted by Lazerus1
Please do, I lost it in a format, would love to have it back. Also the picture of the CHIPS guy pointing at ya proclaiming 'YOU'RE A HOMO' was a classic. Anyone that has it and could post it, it would be appreciated :)
Just for you Lazerus ...
(http://pages.cthome.net/crzn22/Misc/nicecupof.jpg)
-
Originally posted by BNM
I actually do better with the D myself? Anyway I think perking the La7, P-51D, 190 D-9 and 109G-10 the same 10 perks would be fine.
Edited to add the Dora :)
I would love having lala's, mustangs, doras, and g10's perked... hell, if all that was perked, I'd never die in G10's :)
-
Originally posted by maxtor
F4U-1C with 9273 kills 3660 deaths turns in a better performance than the more expensively perked F4U4 and Ta152. It's a much better investment than either of those others.
Most of the K/D difference is due to the fact that the CHog is used most often for vulching from cv's. It's what the DHoggers fly when they have a safe field to vulch at :). And as for the Ta152.. that thing is porked beyond belief.
-
Humble, Torque was good at gunnery ill admit that..
My problem with him was dumping into him with no effect... I had about 8 films of me dumping into him only to watch him keep flying along....
Chalk this up to lag, cheat, whatever that guy's f4 was near indestructable in one pass... You had to dump into him and then dump into him again...and again.... then a part may fall off his plane and he never just exploded... He always lost a part of aircraft and augered... yeah skill all the way..... not..
No other player in this game have I experienced such consistant BS and that goes all the way back to beta...
Make your own deductions..
BTW where is Torque now...
Would love to get him in a nice controlled enviroment. and slaughter him in the dueling arena... and again and again...
DoctorYo
-
Although the F4U-1C can carry 2x1000 bombs, I'll often choose the F4U-1D instead, if I'm doing jabo work. Two reasons for that: 1, jabo is risky - there's a good chance of dying one way or another, so the 1D keeps the PP expenditure down. 2, the 1D can carry 8 rockets as against 4 for the 1C - useful for killing X2Lee in his PT boat. :D Though it has to be said, X2Lee is one of the better PT boat drivers. :cool:
I do a lot of jabo, so often fly F4U or P47 as attack planes. But you can imagine my surprise when I checked my stats one time. I've added Lazs's comments - LOL!
-
Most folks...myself included...had a tough time with him. I've never been bashful about #$%%^$ someone out on channel 1 if I really think there's a problem. I can't ever recall any real issues with him...cept he was better than I am. I always wondered about his gunnery...from the victims end he was easily 5 to 10 times better than anyone else I ever faced...he seemed to never miss. I've never heard of an "aimbot" in here so I've always chauked it up to skill.
As for where he is...many of the "old hands" don't fly anymore (myself included...although coming back in a few weeks). Reasons probably vary...for me the game was at it's best in 1.03...everything else except the planeset has been downhill...but its still the best thing going for FS online. Anyway, just trying to point out for the newer players that the whole "perk" system started with the C-hog...and the C-hog "issue" started with Torque. Alot of other folks flew it but he created the "image" of the killer c-hog.
-
actualy i remeber no support at all, I was a giant jerk after a affiable cool hot stick. was the begining of the end for towd.
in fact i think it was a chog rant that got me banned lol.