Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bolillo_loco on December 30, 2002, 03:13:08 PM
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Hi, since there are so many people here that know far more than I can comprehend. I was wondering what people can make of these numbers that I found in a new book that I have.
The book is titled "Vee's for Victory" : The story of the Allision V-1710 aircraft engine 1929 - 1948. by Daniel D. Whitney. Published by Schiffer Military History Atglen, Pa. ISBN # 0-7643-0561-1
on page 334 table 15-5 it lists the performance as follows
Allision V-1710-F-17
Military power
altitiude for maximum speed 27,000'
maximum speed mph 418 mph
sea level 360 mph
5,000' 365 mph
10,000' 382 mph
15,000' 396 mph
20,000' 408 mph
25,000' 416 mph
30,000' 414 mph
absolute ceiling 42,300'
service ceiling 41,600'
climb in 5 minutes 17,800'
climb to 20,000' minutes 6.2
to 25,000' 8.7 minutes
to 30,000' 12.2 minutes
distance to takeoff 50' obstacle 1,640'
normal power
altitude for maximum speed 25,000'
maximum speed 395 mph
sea level 326 mph
5,000' 342 mph
10,000' 358 mph
15,000' 374 mph
20,000' 386 mph
25,000' 395 mph
30,000' 383 mph
absolute ceiling 38,500'
service ceiling 37,800'
on page 335 table 15-16 standard P-38J Allision V-1710-F-17
wep 1,600 hp
wer engine rpm 3,000
engine propeller gear ration 2.00:1
propeller diameter 11.5'
turbosupercharger,GE type B-33
fuel grade 130
propeller activity factor 89.3
P-38 operational weight 16,200lbs
maximum sea level speed 356 mph
maximum speed @ 30,000' 436 mph
max climb 5 minutes 18,700'
time to 30,000' 8.7 minutes
absolute ceiling 43,900'
can anybody shed some light on these figures? they appear to be from a P-38J-25-LO that had a reduced take off weight of 16,200lbs down from the normal 17,500lbs. It makes no mention of the condition of the aircraft. I just wondered what people thought. I have always enjoyed reading what some of the crew here writes. a lot of knowledge floating about here.
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I'm not sure what you're asking for. Do you want to know what each of the figures means or are you pointing out some discrepancy that you want people to comment on?
The values look quite comparable to the performance of the P-38L we have in AH.
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Originally posted by bolillo_loco
Hi, since there are so many people here that know far more than I can comprehend. I was wondering what people can make of these numbers that I found in a new book that I have.
The book is titled "Vee's for Victory" : The story of the Allision V-1710 aircraft engine 1929 - 1948. by Daniel D. Whitney. Published by Schiffer Military History Atglen, Pa. ISBN # 0-7643-0561-1
on page 334 table 15-5 it lists the performance as follows
Allision V-1710-F-17
Military power
altitiude for maximum speed 27,000'
maximum speed mph 418 mph
sea level 360 mph
5,000' 365 mph
10,000' 382 mph
15,000' 396 mph
20,000' 408 mph
25,000' 416 mph
30,000' 414 mph
absolute ceiling 42,300'
service ceiling 41,600'
climb in 5 minutes 17,800'
climb to 20,000' minutes 6.2
to 25,000' 8.7 minutes
to 30,000' 12.2 minutes
distance to takeoff 50' obstacle 1,640'
normal power
altitude for maximum speed 25,000'
maximum speed 395 mph
sea level 326 mph
5,000' 342 mph
10,000' 358 mph
15,000' 374 mph
20,000' 386 mph
25,000' 395 mph
30,000' 383 mph
absolute ceiling 38,500'
service ceiling 37,800'
on page 335 table 15-16 standard P-38J Allision V-1710-F-17
wep 1,600 hp
wer engine rpm 3,000
engine propeller gear ration 2.00:1
propeller diameter 11.5'
turbosupercharger,GE type B-33
fuel grade 130
propeller activity factor 89.3
P-38 operational weight 16,200lbs
maximum sea level speed 356 mph
maximum speed @ 30,000' 436 mph
max climb 5 minutes 18,700'
time to 30,000' 8.7 minutes
absolute ceiling 43,900'
can anybody shed some light on these figures? they appear to be from a P-38J-25-LO that had a reduced take off weight of 16,200lbs down from the normal 17,500lbs. It makes no mention of the condition of the aircraft. I just wondered what people thought. I have always enjoyed reading what some of the crew here writes. a lot of knowledge floating about here.
If you REALLY want to learn something from this, please note that the speeds @ altitude are given @ military power and normal power. What's missing? Speeds @ altitude @ WEP!!!!!!!!!!
If it reaches 414 MPH at MILITARY POWER, how fast is it at WEP? Memory serves correct, it gains a total of about 600HP @ WEP. And these ratings DO NOT take into account the removal of the MAP restriction.
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If someone really wants to learn something from this it's better to read following above Table 15-5:
"A comprehensive study of such aircraft was prepared by Lockheed in June 1942".
The Tests and the developement of the F-17 began in August 1942 (same source, p. 271).
gripen
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Im a nut for references. Gripen where can I get that comparative study? Another good comparative study is what Francis Dean worked from to write "America's 100,000".
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Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning" has some test results for WEP.
P-38-J10-LO AC42-67869
60.8 in Hg, 3000 rpm, 1612 hp @ 25,800 ft
16,597 lbs
345 mph @ SL
421.5 mph @ 25,800 ft
ROC @ SL 4000 fpm
ROC @ 23,400 ft 2900 fpm
Time to 23,400 ft 6.19 min
Service Ceiling 40,000 ft
Greg Shaw
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The fastest test result I've seen for a Lightning was from a comparative graph in the appendices of The Mustang Story, by Ken Delve. The graph was a little small and the scale was only in units of 5 mph, but I estimated the numbers as:
348 mph @ SL
420 mph @ 20k
426-427 mph @ 22-23k
420 mph @ 25k
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Hi everyone,
P-38J:
16415 lbs gross weight
300 gals fuel
2000/150 rounds ammunition
60" Hg manifold pressure (WEP rating)
1600 BHP per engine at sea level
1600 BHP per engine at rated altitude
25000 ft rated altitude
338 mph at sea level
402 mph at 20000 ft
415 mph at critical altitude
24800 ft critical altitude
3730 fpm climb at sea level
2910 fpm climb at 20000 ft
2750 fpm climb at critical altitude
22000 ft critical altitude
5.9 min to climb to 20000 ft
42000 ft service ceiling
89 mph stalling speed (with 25% fuel, 25% ammunition)
1090 ft take-off distance (zero wind)
730 ft take-off distance (15 mph wind)
450 miles radius of action (based on Navy mission profile :-)
Navy mission profile:
20 min warm-up and idling
1 min take-off
10 min rendezvous at sea level at 60% normal power
climb to 15000 ft at 60% normal power
cruise at 15000 ft at optimum cruise
20 min combat at 15000 ft at full power
return to base at 1500 ft at optimum cruise
reserve of 60 min at optimum cruise
(Data from US Navy F4U-4 comparison report.)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by OLtos
Im a nut for references. Gripen where can I get that comparative study?
Oltos,
The "Vee's for victory" contains some parts of it and it is claimed in the references. Note that the study was prepared before the F-17 series reached testing stage ie the study is based on calculations.
gripen