Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on December 31, 2002, 10:29:43 PM
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Did the P47 had fowler flaps or it's just the guy who modeled the plane who put them?
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;;;
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.more here (http://members.tripod.com/scottsmodels/p-47d_thunderbolt.htm)
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Frenchy:
The P-47 had a single slot flap. By definition a flap that extends back and creates a slot is considered a fowler flap.
Greati pics of the model BTW! Like the fine detail on the gunsight!
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustang
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Yes like on this model, that's why I was wondering.
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Yep. the jug had fowlers... and shouldn't there only be one national insignia on the bottom of the wings?
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Originally posted by chunder
Yep. the jug had fowlers... and shouldn't there only be one national insignia on the bottom of the wings?
Nope.
So Fowler or Split flaps?
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And one is smaller than the other one, from memory.
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Slotted.
From "America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis Dean, p47 structural description:
"The landing flaps, representing 13 percent of the total projected wing area, were NACA slotted type. They were hydraulically operated, and during extension moved first aft and then down, and during retraction moved first up then forward. The movement ws synchronized by three trapezoidal linkage hinges to ensure accurate positioning of the flap agianst the main wing panel to maintain the proper airfoil. The links were synchronized by attachment to a torque tube, and the assembly was attached to the inboard auxiliary wing spar. Independent units either side were synchronized by the hydraulic system. The flap linkage assembly was bolted to the flaps. The double-cambered extermal surfaces of the flaps were formed by flanged nose and tail ribs attached to a single spar. Additional light nose ribs were provided between basic rib locations."
Hope it helps.
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(http://www.web-birds.com/8th/56/56-07.jpg)
(http://www.web-birds.com/9th/48/48th-62.jpg)
(http://www.web-birds.com/9th/404/fritz506.jpg)
(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/afp/davis2.jpg)
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Yeah, they extend so little backward that they fit the description for Slotted more than Fowler. The modeler of the D25 made them slide backward way too much it seems. Ty.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Nope.
So Fowler or Split flaps?
Why is that P-47D with invasion stripes having a "toothpick" propellor?
I thought they were all changed to paddle blades much earlier :p
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i.m reading a book right now by a guy from the 332nd FG who was flying P-47Ns with toothpick props. i'm not sure, but i think they might be better@low alt with the smaller props
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Here... a way to see what your plane ACTUALLY does have for flaps... ohh... and the Jug has SLOTTED flaps... not fowler, there is no confusion WHATSOEVER......
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Game, set, match...
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/alliedchrts1.jpg)
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Bodhi:
Did you get that diagram from Andy Bush's article? If so the diagram doesn't tell all. Read on in his article for more clarification.
A fowler flap is a slotted flap that extends backwards.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Bodhy and F4UDOA, like I said,
those flaps on the real P47 don't extend backward enought to be called Fowler flaps, so they simply called Slotted. Can call them "baby fowler" if you want:D
Nethertheless, on the model, they look more like fowler than slotted, don't they? Thus my question as I didn't had a picture with flasp down available.
Wohoo P47 is not the heaviest ... who called me fat? I think it was Animal ... hey babe, check your gross weight:p
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Frenchy,
The P-47 had slotted flaps but if you read the chart I posted it had slotted extention flaps. So they were slotted flaps that extended like a fowler. I can't tell you exactly what the differance is.
However the P-47 did have multi-position flaps that could be adjusted 10 degrees at a time with 4 positions. The F6F had the same flaps but only a full up or down position.
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Originally posted by dtango
Bodhi:
Did you get that diagram from Andy Bush's article? If so the diagram doesn't tell all. Read on in his article for more clarification.
A fowler flap is a slotted flap that extends backwards.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Tango,
Naw, did not get the diagram from his article, it has been around a REAL LONG time... Anyways, I understand what you are trying to say, but the 47 does not even come close to being a fowler flap as it allows airflow to move over the upper surface of the flap from the lower surface of the wing... hence it is slotted. The fowler on the other hand does not allow that in as much and as it extends back, it remains under the upper surface of the wing.
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Perhaps the terminology and the above diagram is throwing everybody off. We know the P-47 flap:
(1) extends
(2) opens a slot
I agree that it is definitely a slotted flap. I agree that it is not a fowler flap by the old diagram above.
However take a look at the following:
Slotted Fowler Definition (http://www.rmcs.cranfield.ac.uk/aeroxtra/e348wingdesfowl.htm)
More Fowler Flap Definition (http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/controls/Page5.html)
]Even More Fowler Flap Definition (http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht-87-6.html)
Quotes from the last source:
"This drawback of the "plain" flap is partially overcome with the more sophisticated "Fowler" flap, where a gap is created in such a way that, when deflected, air from underneath is caught in a "funnel," accelerated and "blown" into the boundary layer at the upper surface, thus allowing the airflow to follow the flap contour to deflections up to 25 degrees approximate....Usually the Fowler flaps are not only deflected but also moved rearwards ( with a hinge point situated below the airfoil or a sophisticated track system as on the Cessna 152 and 172, etc.), which increases the wing area S by increasing the chord."
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs[/b
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And then dtango, about 15 years later they came up with "blown flaps". :) Which improved on the fowler even more.
Interesting subject.
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Fowler flaps where a lockheed invention
And so they had their patended rights on it i guess.
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I always thought the P47 in the AH had plain flaps
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Frenchy, that model the guy did is of the most intense detail I've EVER seen. That guy is very industrious. But how many actual modelers out there go through all that? I mostly build my models from the box, and on the P-38 (F5B Recon model) I did, I used airbrush. I'm currently experimenting with puttying the cracks on my Harker Tempest. Honestly though, that thing is half the plane it was originally, I hope he entered it in a contest or something...
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Check out this guy, the page sends you to it's P47 page 2, but check it's other models.
attention to detail means a lot of free time (http://kithobbyist.com/largescaleplanes/Works/ChrisSherland/p47_pt2/p47_II.htm)
:D
Here is an example :
(http://kithobbyist.com/largescaleplanes/Works/ChrisSherland/p47_pt3/tailfeathers.jpg)
The same thing was needed for the geometric lap joints on the tail feathers of the P-47. These are very distinct and I wanted them to be consistent as well. Soda can aluminum was used again, and the same drawings were enlarged and used to trace the pattern onto the aluminum sheet.
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I did a 1:72 109f model and did some extra detailing on it. like cutting the flaps to put them in the down position, cutting the elevators/rudder/ailerons and repositiong them.
it all depends on how much time you take to build something.
takes a few extra tools. I used a candle to heat up an xacto to cut thru the plastic. worked great. a little sanding and painting.
use a small drill vise to put some small piano wire thru, bend it and glue the new piece into position.
I've never used metal or anything to detail with, just extra plastic sprues and such.
Havn't done any of that for years now tho. Been working on R/C planes/helis.
I have a small semiscale electric twin me-262 on the workbench now (well, for the past year really). I want to finish it before spring. :)