Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MaddDog on January 02, 2003, 11:23:49 AM
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Now im not a nazi or anything.... just like realism, i was wondering why when most german ww2 aircraft had swastikas on the tail sections none of ours in AH do....but the G-2 has swastikas on the wings to,im not thinkin it has to do with bein leagal or such...if anyone knows the reason for this post it here:confused:
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Those aren't nazi symbols on the G2
The Story of the Finnish Blue "Swastika"
The Finnish Air Force is one of the oldest independent air forces in the world, founded on the 6th of March 1918. At that time there was a civil war (aka the Freedom War) ongoing in Finland, the White Army fought against the Red Guards which aimed to creation of a socialist state of Finland - like the revolutional forces in Russia on the same time.
A Swedish count Erich von Rosen wanted to support the White Army and presented the first aeroplane - Thulin (Morane-Saulnier) Parasol - to it. The aircraft was flown from Sweden to Vaasa. Actually the first aircraft arrived to Pietarsaari from Sweden on the 26th of February, but it got engine failure and was delivered later to the White Army. The Chief Commanding Officer of the White Army, General C.G.E Mannerheim, named that Morane-Saulnier Parasol -fighter as the Finnish Air Forces aircraft number One.
Count Erich von Rosen was a notable expeditor who had used a swastika as a personal good luck symbol painted to his aircraft during his journeys in the Orient and he let the same symbol be painted to the given aifcraft. The blue, horizontal swastika became on the 18th of March 1918 the official insignia of the White Army aircrafts and when the Freedom War ended, the official national insignia of the Finnish Air Force. The same insignia was also used later on the Finnish Army armoured vehicles, for some misunderstandings at the beginning, some swastikas were painted mirrored, actually they should be painted clockwise.
The blue swastika was used in the Finnish Air Force until the Second World War ended and as You have now read, it has nothing to do with the Nazi symbol - tip pointed black swastika, which was actually a "party"-logo.
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ok ok its still swastika why dont german planes have them on the tail section?
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im not sure why,,im sure there is a reason for it,,the swastika use to be a good luck symbol,,cowboys use to wear them on there gun holsters,,my school i use to go too,,back in the old days use to be called the swastika's<~~till germans made it there nazi sign,,then they changed the name of are school in like the 1940s,,because of its uses by the axis,,know one wanted to be called the nazi of schools i guess,,lol
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Originally posted by MaddDog
ok ok its still swastika why dont german planes have them on the tail section?
It is only on the G2 because this plane was flown by by the Finnish Air Force, Finland being allied with Germany against Russia, it was their insignia since 1918.
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/me-fin-1.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/FAFhist.htm
Secondly Nazi symbols are illegal in many countries.
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This has been hashed out so many times.
Search the BBS for "swastika".
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ok ok its still swastika why dont german planes have them on the tail section?
A swastika on a LW plane would make it a Nazi swastika, which is illegal in some countries. Most sims leave the swastika off LW planes to avoid marketing headaches.
ra
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I consider the Red Star offensive and I would like it removed from AH!!!!!
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Originally posted by udet
I consider the Red Star offensive and I would like it removed from AH!!!!!
Then get a law passed against them in a major industrial country. Has this been done?
-Sik
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The Nazi swastica is illegal in Germany. If HTC want their game playable in Germany they cannot have the swastica represented.
That is not the case with the Finnish von Rossen cross, the red star of the USSR or the hinomaru of Japan.
This is not some issue about people getting huffy, it is simply due to German law.
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Il2 does the same thing. No Nazi symbols on the tails. However tey alow a program that you can down load so that you see the symbol on your Front end.
Does not come in the box so no problem with the German laws.
I believe it is a 3rd party add on.
Regards,
Chris:D
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Not exactly. Il-2 is sold in few versions, international and Russian among others.
Russian version allows swastika, while international doesn't. The little program mentioned simply allows your version to behave as Russian, in regards of the swastika.
As for Finnish markings, I believe there is no swastika on them in Il-2. Only white-blue bullseye ;).
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Where can you get this swastika program? I only play IL2 as a single player eye candy fix so having them on the appropriate planes would be great.
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Here Gruen
http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/il2hk.zip
Extract IL2HK to your main il2 folder.
Right click on the il2hk.exe and create a short cut icon on your desktop
Right click on the new short cut you just created and slect "properties". Select change icons. You do this so you il2hk icon is the same as the il2 one. Browse to your il2 folder and you can select the default il2 icon.
Then just delete (if you want) the original il2 desktop icon.
You can also get il2 stab to activate the svastika.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Nazi swastica is illegal in Germany. If HTC want their game playable in Germany they cannot have the swastica represented.
It's not completely illegal; it's just that the narrow exceptions don't extend to games that happen to be set in the period. And it's not just the hakenkreuz; Article 86a of the German penal code prohibits the use of symbols of an organization hostile to the constitution, or using these symbols publicly in meetings or publications, these symbols to include flags, buttons, uniforms, slogans and forms of greetings, as well as variations that are extremely similar to the original ones. The exceptions are the use of these symbols for public education, prevention of hostile actions against the constitution, the use in art, science, schooling, news reports, historical reports and the like.
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I remember EAW had them on it, i was not offended but encouraged to shoot wabble tails.
In fact shooting nazi planes is my life.
:D
The swastisca and the finnish sunmill are both the same old keltic symbol.
Only they stand for something else.
I prefer realistic so they should be there
Anyway it would be the same like making a WOII war movie about the nazi's and than leave out the uniforms and stuff.
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BUG,
The version of EAW sold in Europe did not have the swasticas enabled.
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Originally posted by Karnak
BUG,
The version of EAW sold in Europe did not have the swasticas enabled.
Mine did.
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thulin-parasol
(http://www.savanne.org/ah/thulin-parasol.jpg)
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Yep mine did too and guess who lives in europe here
:D
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Originally posted by Shiva
It's not completely illegal; it's just that the narrow exceptions don't extend to games that happen to be set in the period. And it's not just the hakenkreuz; Article 86a of the German penal code prohibits the use of symbols of an organization hostile to the constitution, or using these symbols publicly in meetings or publications, these symbols to include flags, buttons, uniforms, slogans and forms of greetings, as well as variations that are extremely similar to the original ones. The exceptions are the use of these symbols for public education, prevention of hostile actions against the constitution, the use in art, science, schooling, news reports, historical reports and the like.
well thats alright then !! without those symbols we are safe from WW3!! no self respecting dictator would dare try to take over the world without his own icon! :)
What a silly, silly law
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I like the planes better this way. It just looks more realistic
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Originally posted by hazed-
well thats alright then !! without those symbols we are safe from WW3!! no self respecting dictator would dare try to take over the world without his own icon! :)
What a silly, silly law
no doubt. more likley the law is there to help them forget about getting an oscar whomping...i wonder if the sex pistols qualified for the exemption under art
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Originally posted by hazed-
well thats alright then !! without those symbols we are safe from WW3!! no self respecting dictator would dare try to take over the world without his own icon!
It was actually enacted as a means to prevent a resurgent Nazi party from using the symbols of the old Nazi party as focal points for the organization.
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I ,as a german, dont need any swastika.Clockwise or not.
Hitler and the nazis poisoned that sign,even the SS sign, for ever.
I noticed the irritation when i introduced the 109g2 to some friends of mine.
Germans learned a lot after WW2.But i can not disown that a few toejamheads still believe in this signs.
I have problems to convince my interested friends that the swastika is just for fun and realism painted on the planes.
They do not accept this kind of realism.Me as well.
And i dont want to see any squads called SS-sturmgruppe or similar to that,flying in the game. "Just for realism!"
As a german sim-fan ,i am happy to fly german planes in the game.But Dont forget of the power these signs have.Still nowadays!
Greets from Ecke
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I really enjoy this game.
However, i also live in the real world, and when i play my game, i don't want to be reminded of this, i don't want to see swastikas, let's at least keep our escapism as untainted as we can. O.k, i know pretending to shoot down other pilots is a bit sick, but the game wouldn't be much fun if we didn't. However, i draw the line at the swastika.
-One in five people are going to bed hungry while i stay up late for 'just one more sortie'. 300,000 die of obesity in the U.S. every year.
-The right wing is on the rise again in Europe, this time mostly targeting immigrants.
-The concepts of Lebensraum, ghettos, racial superiority and the militarized state are still alive and well in, of all places, 'Israel' where people really should know better.
-The Nazi concept of nations having a 'right' to resources is alive and well. The U.S. is about to go to war so that we can continue playing our cheap games on our cheap computers powered by our cheap oil.