Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weazel on January 02, 2003, 02:58:25 PM
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I wonder how much chimpy and Unka Dick Cheney will pocket from this deal?
ASHGABAT, Turkmenistan: Dec 28 (PNS)
Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan on Friday signed here a framework agreement for a US $ 3.2 billion gas pipeline project passing through the three countries.
The ceremony was held at the Presidential Palace with the three leaders, Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali, President Saparmurat Niyazov of Turkmenistan and Afghan President Hamid Karzai signing the document.
The framework agreement defines legal mechanism for setting up a consortium to build and operate the pipeline.
According to a study by Asian Development Bank (ADB), the 1460 km pipeline would use gas reserves at Dauletabad fields in Turkmenistan, which has world's fifth largest reserves, while passing through Afghanistan into Pakistan.
The three countries had earlier signed a trilateral agreement to develop a natural gas and oil pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan in May this year, during the first trilateral summit in Islamabad.
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Gotta agree with you on this weazel, if bush was really after the 911 terrorists and their infrastructure he should have attacked the Buddhist terror training camps in the Norway...
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Osama who?
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama Bin Laden.
It is our number one priority, and we will not rest until we find him."
George Bush
Sept. 13, 2001
"I don't know where he is.
I have no idea and I really don't care.
It's not that important.
It's not our priority."
George Bush
March 13, 2002
Guess which US company is the prime benefactor of the new pipeline?
Can you say Halliburton boys and girls?
War on terrorism my ass.
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sigh.. and this will give people/terrorists/whomever a great target of attack.
damned politicians.
what's it gonna' cost to 'protect' ?
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after cheney droped as CEO, i figured it would be too over the top for then to making any more big $ from ties to the white house & that maybe the white house no long had an interest in HAL (except eagleburger on the halliburton board)...halliburton was threatening to go capter 11 over their asbestos BS, so i sold my HAL stock...ah what the ƒu€k, i made some $ on it...just feel like a moron not being able to read those guys better & falling for the same trix over & over again
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"It seems more apparent with each passing day that American foreign policy is being run
by the Wizard of Oz, hidden behind the curtain using smoke and mirrors, and anything
that comes to mind, in articulating its position and place in the world. It is high time that
American citizens pull back the curtain like Toto, to uncover what is really going on."
I response to this quote allow me to appropriate a popular word here and demostrate the insulting nature implied in the use of said word:
Is a conspiracy! :D
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Can you explain these two quotes Grun?
Osama who?
quote:
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"The most important thing is for us to find Osama Bin Laden.
It is our number one priority, and we will not rest until we find him."
George Bush
Sept. 13, 2001
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quote:
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"I don't know where he is.
I have no idea and I really don't care.
It's not that important.
It's not our priority."
George Bush
March 13, 2002
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I can think of one good explanation: Priorities changed.
You would be shooting yourself in the foot if you required a President to keep priorities set in stone - week after week - month after month - regardless of real time events or changing realities.
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Can't spin the two Bush quotes in a good light so you focus on my new sig?
Two key words in my sig don't apply to you....."American citizens"
You going to argue my post or continue to spew the party line?
I can read that kind of drivel at Faux News. :p
Gunthr said:
I can think of one good explanation: Priorities changed.
Yup, chimpy secured the pipeline deal in Afghanistan for Halliburton...off to the next bunch of evildoers with oil....how convenient. :rolleyes:
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"I response to this quote allow me to appropriate a popular word here and demostrate the insulting nature implied in the use of said word:
Is a conspiracy! "
Are you saying that the US government isn't losing transparency?
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its a sad day.
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It must really suck to get all worked up over stuff like this.
Forget it Weazel. There is nothing you can do to change the situation. War is coming to Iraq and North Korea, no matter how anxiously you are twisting your hands.
Relax, get a beer, put on some good music and try to stop being so angry/afraid.
I suggest The pearl fishers duet by Bizet, preferably the one with Jussi Bjorling and Robert Merill from 1940something (at least I think its from 1940something).
Things could be worse. Seriously.
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Ann Coulter on the Middle East:
"...invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."
Excuse me if I don't take your advice seriously.
Originally posted by Hortlund
It must really suck to get all worked up over stuff like this.
Forget it Weazel. There is nothing you can do to change the situation. War is coming to Iraq and North Korea, no matter how anxiously you are twisting your hands.
Relax, get a beer, put on some good music and try to stop being so angry/afraid.
I suggest The pearl fishers duet by Bizet, preferably the one with Jussi Bjorling and Robert Merill from 1940something (at least I think its from 1940something).
Things could be worse. Seriously.
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whoopee EVIL AMREEKA!!!
HOW DARE THEY REBUILD ECONOMY OF COUNTRY THEY FREED FROM TALIBAN!!!
DETH TO AMREEEKA!!!!
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I'll say, the war on terror is working.We didn't we have any attacks in the US since 9/11.
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Originally posted by weazel
Ann Coulter on the Middle East:
"...invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."
Excuse me if I don't take your advice seriously.
Fine, its your blood pressure. You should pick your fights more cleverly though. Because this one you cant win. You have the US president against you, together with the majority of the public opinion in the US. People want war against Iraq...or at least they want Saddam removed from power and his B&C weapons destroyed...too bad huh :)
As for Miss Coulter
You know Weazel, two weeks after she made that statement, the first two points had become official US policy. As for the third point about converting them to Christianity, at least the ex moslem women would not have to fear stoning anymore...and I suspect we would see a sudden rise in quality of human rights in those countries too. But nah, best let them keep their "send in the suicide bombers to butcher all the infidels"-religion. After all, thats the PC thing to do.
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I have to agree with Weazel on this one! There is alot going on behind the backs of the American people.
I do not believe Bush's main concern in his policies in the Middle East region is the snuffing out of terrorism.
IMHO
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Weazel I was making a little joke, your signature just grabbed my atention and inspired it.
We all know in our hearts bush is evil and amreeka is the great satan!
Death to Amreeka!
All kidding aside, so what? are we not go after oil now that we can because we kicked out an enemy government who killed or tried damned vest to help kill 3000 innocent americans, most civilans? You arent trying to say bush welcomed 911 and the little coincidence that bin laden was in afghanistan?
Calm down.. Hows that different than building nup japan or germany after the war and selling and gving them US goods and making profits there.
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"After all, thats the PC thing to do."
must preserve their ancient culture!
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Originally posted by Pongo
"After all, thats the PC thing to do."
must preserve their ancient culture!
LOL, something like that yeah
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It calls into question the methodologies of how your leaders persecute a war and why they do, when they start making money off of it.
How can you make a informed choice of who to vote for when when the information on your governments actions and disicions are now longer available to you. Transperency is necessary to a democracy.
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"whoopee EVIL AMREEKA!!!
HOW DARE THEY REBUILD ECONOMY OF COUNTRY THEY FREED FROM TALIBAN!!!
DETH TO AMREEEKA!!!!
I expect it from the cabby and grunherz types.
Any act of critical intelligence, any reasoned effort to see through the mask of power, enrages typical Bush supporters.
Such high-strung supporters demand a God-like father-figure who will always reassure them that they needn't think, and so they snap into attack mode any time they sense a threat to such authority; and in this case, their fury is especially intense, because their idol is so small a man that even they can see that something's missing.
I never expected you to be one of those brownshirt wannabes who pipe up from the cheap seats, cursing out the critics in mad sympathy with their offended leader.
Desublimated as they are, such venters tend to tell us more about themselves than any self-respecting person wants to know.
Come on...I know your better than that. ;)
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i think theres a conspiracy around the fact that the word conspiracy now means 'the insane theories of an aboslute moron'...it didn't used to be that way...what word or phrase can i now use to describe something like the JFK kill & the warren report?
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Yup, chimpy secured the pipeline deal in Afghanistan for Halliburton...off to the next bunch of evildoers with oil....how convenient.
Its multi-national commerce, Weasle. Its a good thing. Willing sellers and willing buyers. What is your problem?
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I think you should re-phrase that...it's Americas problem when a corrupt leader decides to use the US military as a tool of big business.
You don't have a problem with that?
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Originally posted by weazel
I think you should re-phrase that...it's Americas problem when a corrupt leader decides to use the US military as a tool of big business.
You don't have a problem with that?
uh, did you forget why we invaded Afghanistan? I bet you think it was all a conspiracy designed by Israel right?
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Why is everyone in an uproar about the U.S. invading? because everyone wants a piece of the pie when it starts getting cut, and others don't want to lose what they already have
Iraq’s declaration of its weapons programs contains explosive news for Germany, a Berlin paper has reported. The dossier is said to detail covert arms deals between German defense firms and Iraq.
Just as the heated debates within the German government over the role of German troops and equipment in a possible war against Iraq seem to be cooling down, another potential bombshell threatens to reignite the fires.
On Tuesday, the Berlin-based left-wing paper, Tageszeitung reported that aspects of the 12,000-page Iraqi report on Iraq's weapons programs, submitted to the U.N last week, could prove highly embarrassing for Germany.
The newspaper - believed to be the first to have access to the top-secret dossier - has written that the Iraqi declaration contains the names of 80 German firms, research laboratories and people, who are said to have helped Iraq develop its weapons program.
Germany, Iraq’s number one arms supplier?
The most contentious piece of news for Germany is that the report names it as the number one supplier of weapons supplies to Iraq. German firms are supposed to easily outnumber the firms from other countries who have been exporting to Iraq.
They have delivered technical know-how, components, basic substances and even entire technical facilities for the development of atomic, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction to Iraq right since 1975.
In some cases, conventional military and technical dealings between Germany and Iraq are said to date till 2001, ten years after the second Gulf war and a time when international sanctions against Saddam Hussein are still in place.
The paper reports that the dossier contains several indications of cases, where German authorities right up to the Finance Ministry tolerated the illegal arms cooperation and also promoted to it to an extent.
Wait and watch says German Finance Ministry
The German Finance Ministry has said that it will react to the report only once it has studied the Iraqi declaration.
"We’ll first wait till the report is in our hands," a spokesman from the ministry said on Tuesday.
The spokesman however said that the German government of the time in 1990 had informed the parliament about such German supplies to Iraq.
Ever since Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, there has been a strict embargo against the country. The spokesman said that there have been a few cases of violation of the embargo and the government has initiated investigations.
German military exports to Iraq nothing new
Explosive as the newspaper report may appear, it’s not the first of its kind.
For months rumors have been circulating in the German media of murky deals between German arms companies and businessmen with Iraq despite the rigid embargoes in place.
In October this year, a magazine of the German radio channel, Südwestrundfunk reported that electronics giant Siemens had delivered specialized technical equipment to Iraq for the treatment of kidney stones, but which could also under certain circumstances be used as a detonator for atom bombs.
Siemens insisted that the device could not be misused because it had commissioned an Iraqi company to regularly monitor the equipment. In fact the delivery was even sanctioned by the sanctions council of the U.N. and the Federal Office of Economics and Export Control (BAFA).
The latest newspaper report also touches upon the gray zone between medicine and armaments and writes of so-called dual-use goods that can be used for developing weapons as well as for civilian purposes.
The German government was apparently informed in 1999 of the delivery of such dual-use goods to Iraq, but is said to have turned a blind eye.
German defense firms conduct roaring trade with Baghdad
German arms companies in the meantime have been conducting booming business with Iraq in recent years. According to the German Federal Statistics Office, German military exports to Iraq have been steadily rising from year to year.
From annual exports amounting to 21,7 million euro in 1997, the volume of exports for the following year shot to some 76,4 million euro. The trend continued in 2001 with exports to Iraq bringing German firms profits in the range of 336,5 million euro.
German goods worth 226,2 million euro have already been shipped to Iraq in the first half of this year. Some of the official heavyweights in the export scene are the German electronics firm Siemens with medical equipment and energy distribution systems and carmaker DaimlerChrysler. Both are reported to rake in revenues worth double digit figures in the millions.
Chancellor Schröder in precarious situation
Though the German government has not officially reacted to the Iraqi declaration detailing its role in supplying Iraq with arms, there is little doubt that the issue is bound to stoke passions.
Ever since Chancellor Gerhard Schröder refused to be part of any military action in Iraq before the German general elections in September, Berlin’s relation to Washington has been a strained one.
With Schröder sticking to his pacifist line, but dithering over the level of cooperation with the U.S. in the case of a war against Iraq, the latest report is guaranteed to provide ammunition to the opposition who have strongly criticized Schröder’s policy towards America.
Another real fear is that Schröder’s image as a staunch pacifist might now be sullied if it emerges that Germany has all along been helping the very leader who it has been unwilling to topple, to stockpile his weapons.
The report could also provide the U.S. with an excuse to step up the pressure on Germany to give in to American military demands for deployment of German troops and use of German military equipment in the case of a military attack on Iraq.
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If you can't put any meat on the table don't pull up a chair akiron.
Yep, K98K, remember the stink raised over the US removing the Iraq dislosure papers a few weeks back?
I wonder if this info was part of what they're trying so hard to hide?
Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.
During the last presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.
"Iraq's different," the Post quoted him as saying.
Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.
Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries said they knew of no policy against dealing with Iraq. One of them said he was certain Cheney knew about the deals, though he had never spoken about them to the vice president directly.
If he "was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, 'No,' " Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor, said.
"In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts," Matalin told the Post. "The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them."
The deal was legal, the Post said, and they showed how U.S. firms use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid doing business with Baghdad. The practice is not a violation of U.S. law and falls within the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.
The Post said U.N. records showed that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Cheney had acknowledged, however.
According to the report, the Halliburton subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co., sold material to Baghdad through French affiliates. The sales lasted from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000. Cheney resigned from Halliburton in August.
"Halliburton and Ingersoll-Rand, as far as I know, had no official policy about that, other than we would be in compliance with applicable U.S. and international laws," said Cleive Dumas, who oversaw Ingersoll Dresser Pump's business in the Middle East, including Iraq.
Cheney's spokeswoman, Juleanna Glover Weiss, referred the Post's calls to Halliburton, which in turn, directed them back to Cheney's office.
In a July 30, 2000, interview on ABC-TV's "This Week," Cheney denied that Halliburton or its subsidiaries traded with Baghdad. Three weeks later, on the same program, he modified his response after being informed that a Halliburton spokesman had said that Dresser Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump traded with Iraq.
Cheney said he did not know the subsidiaries were doing business with the Iraqi regime when Halliburton purchased Dresser Industries in September 1998.
The firms traded with Iraq for more than a year under Cheney, however. They signed nearly $30 million in contracts before he sold Halliburton's 49 percent stake in Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. in December 1999 and its 51 percent interest in Dresser Rand to Ingersoll-Rand in February 2000, the Post quoted U.N. records as saying.
CEO of a corporation...but he didn't know he was dealing with Iraq?
Suuurrrrreeee he didn't...
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DETH TO AMREEKA!
BOSH IS STEALE OUR OIL!!!
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This site is probably where weazel (a.k.a. Jihad) and Thrawn frequent to get the latest.
http://memri.org/cartoons/
after seeing some of these and hearing Thrawn and Jihad they sound awfully familiar.
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Weazel basically I'm 99% sure you are a mentally ill conspiracy nut so that's why I don't reply in earnest.
But you ask so I will try better:
I will ignore your inference that the US didn't invade Afghanistan due to 9/11, because it is a ridiculous allegation. The organization responsible for 9/11 (and many other attacks) was based in Afghanistan, with the full cooperation of the the Afghani government. If you don't think this is sufficient cause for invasion then there is no use in further discussion.
But assuming you agree with me that 9/11 was sufficient cause to take military action against Afghanistan, how could you possibly believe that the US should not act in her best economic interest in the aftermath? If we are going to risk the lives of our sons and daughters and pay billions of dollars to ensure the security and development of a new government, and pay billions of dollars to help them rebuild their economic system, shouldn't we get an return on our investment?
To fail to do so would be irresponsible.
What, you think Bush should have a made sure a French (e.g.) company got the pipeline contract? You don't think the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan and Turkmenistan will benefit from this?
It's very ironic that the same group of people who have been crying about how Bush ruined the economy are now damning him for doing things which benefit US companies and workers. Make up your frikkin mind. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by weazel
If you can't put any meat on the table don't pull up a chair akiron.
Not sure what you mean Weazel. Are you saying that I haven't presented any facts? (meat) I just thought it was obvious to everyone why the US is in Afghanistan. If not, let me recap.
OBL has been attacking the US since the WTC bombing in '93. OBL supports and is supported by the Taliban entrenched in Afghanistan. Taliban is asked to hand him over. They refuse, we invade.
Sinister as our attempts to help Afghanistan and Pakistan may seem to you there just might be some benevolence involved. And if a US company makes a buck in the process, so what?
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I expect no more from the 'war on terrorism' than the 'war on drugs'.
in other words there will be alot of publicity, alot of gov't spending, loss of civil libertys, and no real results in the end
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Originally posted by K98k
This site is probably where weazel (a.k.a. Jihad) and Thrawn frequent to get the latest.
http://memri.org/cartoons/
after seeing some of these and hearing Thrawn and Jihad they sound awfully familiar.
Look ma, here's another dumb bellybutton who's swallowed the anti-intellectual bait of chimpys gang, hook...line...and sinker.
For the most part, chimpys supporters are content fanatically to tune out any aspect of reality that contradicts their vision of "the liberal establishment."
For reasons too complex for us to hazard here, the anti-intellectuals are finally on the side of power at its most unforgiving and voracious.
And so they give a pass to those people who are at the service of such power, while jeering anyone...who thinks to raise a fuss about how wrong it is.
For them, this isn't something to discuss, because discussion is itself suspicious, even dangerous...the sport of jerk-offs and prevaricators.
Thus there is no point in arguing with them...and yet no wisdom in attempting to ignore them.
And such is true not only of the Bush regime's most unrestrained supporters, but of the Bush regime itself...a fact that now requires a lot of careful thought, and something more.
And yet it's just such thinking that has all but disappeared since 9/11...as it always disappears in time of war.
Funked:
In bringing down the World Trade Center and ravaging the Pentagon, the terrorists not only murdered thousands, and left tens of thousands more bereft, and devastated lower Manhattan, and sparked the wreckage of the local and the national economy.
Through that spectacular atrocity, the killers also managed, at one blow, to knock the brains clean out of countless good Americans.
Although those citizens had started out that day with all their wits intact, by dinnertime they sounded more like Fred Flintstone, a consequence even more destructive in the long run.
For while we can and will no doubt rebuild beyond the shattered lives and property, the prospects aren't as upbeat for our frail democracy, which cannot function if too many people think like chimpy and his gang of thugs and criminals.
So now lets go back to chimpys quotes I addressed to grunherz, only six months after 9/11 bin laden was no longer a concern of George Bush...how do you explain that?
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
I expect no more from the 'war on terrorism' than the 'war on drugs'.
in other words there will be alot of publicity, alot of gov't spending, loss of civil libertys, and no real results in the end
I find it interesting that there are so many posters with handles to match their posting personality. Makes me wonder how many might be from the same person.
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Originally posted by weazel
Look ma, here's another dumb bellybutton who's swallowed the anti-intellectual bait of chimpys gang, hook...line...and sinker.
Talk about a diatribe sorely lacking in protein.
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Weazel I think you are asking me to defend every action of Bush or Republicans since 9/11. I can't do that. I am not Republican nor am I a big fan of Bush. I dislike Bush slightly less than Algore. But politicians are all slime.
I don't know why Bush said that about Bin Laden. I think basically they are saying they don't care about Bin Laden because they don't want to lose face. The fact is the wily old fart got away from them, and they either don't know where he is or it is politically inconvenient to go get him.
The more important thing is that Al Qaeda has been thoroughly disrupted and there is no longer a willing host government for them in Afghanistan. In fact, I would say there is not a willing host government for them on the planet. I think what happened in Afghanistan has "put the fear of God" in a lot of dictators around the world. They know that by harboring terrorists they risk their power, their lives, and the lives of their countrymen. Mission accomplished.
Of course that doesn't mean we can leave Afghanistan just yet. To go in there and take out their government and then leave a power vacuum would be irresponsible. We owe it to the Afghani people to help them rebuild and get back to at least where they were economically before the Russkies invaded, and hopefully with a functioning democracy. And for now, with so many armed factions over there, it means that we have to keep a military force.
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Talk about a diatribe sorely lacking in protein.
For helping me make my point akiron....as another fanatical supporter content to tune out any aspect of reality that contradicts their vision of "the liberal establishment."
Weazel basically I'm 99% sure you are a mentally ill conspiracy nut so that's why I don't reply in earnest.
Oh...and for you funked, theres no "conspiracy theory" mentioned by me anywhere in this thread, only the cold hard truth.
By asking such questions now, I probably won't get the answers that I'm looking for, but it does demonstrate something quite important....that terror serves to sabotage democracy, by making thought itself seem like a crime against the state.
By asking these questions, I'm accused of siding with the enemy...or a "mentally ill conspiracy nut", just the sort of answer that Al Qaeda's goons would also give you, if you asked them certain tactless questions.
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Originally posted by weazel
For helping me make my point akiron....as another fanatical supporter content to tune out any aspect of reality that contradicts their vision of "the liberal establishment."
Well Weazel, some have differing perceptions of reality.
I'll come clean here. I didn't vote in the last presidential election (first time in many elections). Why? I don't like George Bush. I think he's lousy speaker and I found it hard to listen to him. Anyhow, I knew Texas would go Republican or I would have voted. Not so much because I buy the party line but more because I detest the opposition so much.
So, I'm really not all that delusional, however, I think you are.
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Oh...and for you funked, theres no "conspiracy theory" mentioned by me anywhere in this thread, only the cold hard truth.
Your thread title implies a conspiracy.
...it does demonstrate something quite important....that terror serves to sabotage democracy, by making thought itself seem like a crime against the state.
You haven't demonstrated that.
By asking these questions, I'm accused of siding with the enemy...or a "mentally ill conspiracy nut"
Thinking that the US should not take economic advantage of the situation in Afghanistan, considering the considerable expense we have incurred there, would be anti-American, and pretty close to what our enemies would think.
As for the mentally ill part that goes way beyond this thread, to your obsession with Chimpler and the hundreds of posts on the subject. I don't know you in real life so I can't say for sure that you are a nut, but it sure sounds like it. Anyways lots of us are nuts so don't feel bad. But don't be surprised when I give you a goofy answer.
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quote
___________________________
I find it interesting that there are so many posters with handles to match their posting personality.
___________________________
maybe it's because many of us pick handles that reflect who we are instead of who we wish we where.
what do you think, Iron?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
It must really suck to get all worked up over stuff like this.
Forget it Weazel. There is nothing you can do to change the situation. War is coming to Iraq and North Korea, no matter how anxiously you are twisting your hands.
Relax, get a beer, put on some good music and try to stop being so angry/afraid.
I suggest The pearl fishers duet by Bizet, preferably the one with Jussi Bjorling and Robert Merill from 1940something (at least I think its from 1940something).
Things could be worse. Seriously.
Jeez Hortlund, I thought I knew some cold hearted SOBs but you take the prize banana.
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yep, weazel wants afganistan to stay poor, weazel don't want afgans to build a pipeline, weazel don't want agfgans to make money transporting oil , weazel wants afgans to keep fighting so he can blame it on bush
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isnt this the forum for less serious off topic conversations? oh well dosent matter at this point....i have to agree with
<
in other words there will be alot of publicity, alot of gov't spending, loss of civil libertys, and no real results in the end>>
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Originally posted by funkedup
Your thread title implies a conspiracy.
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...it does demonstrate something quite important....that terror serves to sabotage democracy, by making thought itself seem like a crime against the state.
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You haven't demonstrated that.
The responses I have recieved on this subject demonstrate it quite well.
How many responses in this thread alone mention conspiracy theory...or mental illness?
You even hint in your last post at my being anti-American for having raised the subject.
I won't bother to try and count them all in other threads as I want to get some sleep tonight. ;)
"Thinking that the US should not take economic advantage of the situation in Afghanistan, considering the considerable expense we have incurred there, would be anti-American, and pretty close to what our enemies would think."
I only point out that it's unethical and demonstrates the lack of integrity of the current regime to line their pockets by the situation....at the expense of the people who serve our country in the armed forces.
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Guess what? If you want our government to do things that are against the best interest of Americans, you are Anti-American.
Just calling a spade a spade here.
And how do you call this pipeline deal unethical again? Did they show favoritism to any particular US firms? That's the only possible unethical behavior I can see, and you haven't demonstrated that it has happened. Making sure that a US firm gets the contract is not unethical. Hell it's what he's supposed to do. How can you expect him to do otherwise?
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Originally posted by john9001
yep, weazel wants afganistan to stay poor, weazel don't want afgans to build a pipeline, weazel don't want agfgans to make money transporting oil , weazel wants afgans to keep fighting so he can blame it on bush
Not very good punctuation or spelling, but you hit the nail on the head. :)
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yep, weazel wants afganistan to stay poor, weazel don't want afgans to build a pipeline, weazel don't want agfgans to make money transporting oil , weazel wants afgans to keep fighting so he can blame it on bush
Those hooked on such propaganda have been well-trained by its authors to scream into the nearest telephone, or pound out a threatening e-mail, at the slightest hint of what they might perceive as "liberal ideas".
However, while it owes much to top-down exhortation, that grass-roots ever-readiness to fling abuse has also been enabled hugely by the internet...the postmodern version of old-fashioned hate mail, or rocks with scribbled warnings wrapped around them.
Not long ago, such smart technologies were warmly hailed--by Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Ben Wattenberg, George Gilder, Mobil, Texas Instruments, et al....for their democratizing influence in, say, Manila under Marcos, Moscow under Gorbachev, Beijing under Deng Xiao-Ping, the faxes/e-mails/Internet sites eluding the dead hand of tyranny and helping keep the flame of Liberty alive, etc.
While there's some truth to that heroic formulation, it tends to blind us to the anti-democratic uses of such speedy gadgets here on the domestic front.
The likes of John9001, Grunherz, Cabby....and you as well Funked, hit the keyboards not to broaden the debate but to abort it, taking your wild cyber-shots either to intimidate the heretics or to discourage others from paying attention.
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Ummkay.
Take your meds dude.
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People in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan need jobs too. A large construction project will provide jobs. It might get some people out of the medrassas for a while too.
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Classic.
Weazel you forgot to cite the source, wouldn't want you to be accused of plagerism. If I didn't know better I'd say you cut and pasted it simply adding a few names.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
quote
___________________________
I find it interesting that there are so many posters with handles to match their posting personality.
___________________________
maybe it's because many of us pick handles that reflect who we are instead of who we wish we where.
what do you think, Iron?
Maybe, then again, may be there are some that post under more than one handle, jerk a few chains. What do you think Cappy?
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is no such thing as an altruistic, transparent foreign policy.
No country that hopes to be around for more than a hundred years does anything that doesn't have paybacks of some kind. Every modern war the West has engaged in has had financial kickbacks, that have the potential to cover the cost of the action itself. The arms deals alone done with the Saudis and Kuwaitis after the 1991 war were enormous. Then there was the infrastructure repair and oil technology exchange.
After Bosnia and Kosovo, the building companies of the West couldn't wait to get in there and start rebuilding. The contracts were worth billions of dollars considering the level of damage to the regions infrastructure.
After Iraq, the Western builders will have a field day. The oil related deals are going to be enormous.
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Dowding, there is a difference between the country getting a financial payoff and it's leaders getting a financial pay off.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Forget it Weazel. There is nothing you can do to change the situation. War is coming to Iraq and North Korea, no matter how anxiously you are twisting your hands.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the North Korean war - they don't have any oil. :D
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Seems strange that with N Korea being the largest nuclear threat compared to Irag, The government is dead set on invading Iraq.
US Authorities knew all about N K's developments but seemed to do the most at keeping it quiet, and using diplomacy when all was revealed.
No matter what happens in Iraq US Gov is intent on going in and Liberating the populace of Iraq.
Just look at the facts of what N K's leadership are doing to their people.....and threatening their neighbours to the south, kidnapping Japanese civilians.
Its REEEEEAl hard not to attribute the actions of Western governments to that of Hypocritical self serving actions.
And then to make us conspiracy theorists go a little deeper over the edge, look at corporate heads involvements in shady deals with .
Iraq was areas biggest ally in the region...government knew all about his frame of mind then, chose not to care.
Noriega was besstest friend..despite his slightly lacking in character.
Taliban were friends at one time as well when fighting Evil communist hoarde. Evil communist hoarde are now friends and Taliban bad.
The truth is We are never where we are as according to Government TRUTH.....We will always be lied to by The ruling government of the time.
No matter what ANYONE on this board chooses to believe or spout in righteous indignation...we are all being REAMED big time.
"The truth is the first casualty in War."
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Originally posted by bounder
Jeez Hortlund, I thought I knew some cold hearted SOBs but you take the prize banana.
Huh?
I'm simply suggesting that he should stop worrying so damn much over things he cannot influence. If you think that makes me a cold hearted SOB then you should sue your parents or something.
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Did anyone actually read the article? There is no mention of the United States in the entire thing. Its an article about three neighboring countries agreeing on the rules for putting together a team to look into developing their resourses. What should they be doing, asking for more international aid?
Oh wait, you think that US$ 3.2 Billion means that it's a US project? Guys, that's just to differentiate between Canadian, Australian, and any other $ that might be out there. Otherwise, you'd think the US would be mentioned in the text.
Am I reading this wrong?
-Sik
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my precise answer: "Well, point one and point two, by the end of the week, had become official government policy. As for converting them to Christianity, I think it might be a good idea to get them on some sort of hobby other than slaughtering infidels. I mean, perhaps that's the Peace Corps, perhaps it's working for Planned Parenthood, but I've never seen the transforming effect of anything like Christianity."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT WAS REPORTED IS THIS A great diffrence...When you need it to support your left wing liberal Anti Americanism..
Andrew Grossman of The Hollywood Reporter. He was reporting an exchange on the "Today" show about my 9/11 column in which I said of the terrorists and their sympathizers: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." "Today" host Katie Couric asked me if I thought that was the best way to battle terrorism.
You would do yourself a great favor by whatching less CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS
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So how long has this pipeline been planned?? lolol
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Did anyone actually read the article? There is no mention of the United States in the entire thing. Its an article about three neighboring countries agreeing on the rules for putting together a team to look into developing their resourses. What should they be doing, asking for more international aid?
Oh wait, you think that US$ 3.2 Billion means that it's a US project? Guys, that's just to differentiate between Canadian, Australian, and any other $ that might be out there. Otherwise, you'd think the US would be mentioned in the text.
Am I reading this wrong?
-Sik
No Sik... this article is simply another way the Democrybabies and Libowussies can take something out of context and spin it to thier liking. It's amuzing though... CRY ON DEMOCRATS!! lol
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Originally posted by Ping
Seems strange that with N Korea being the largest nuclear threat compared to Irag, The government is dead set on invading Iraq.
US Authorities knew all about N K's developments but seemed to do the most at keeping it quiet, and using diplomacy when all was revealed.
No matter what happens in Iraq US Gov is intent on going in and Liberating the populace of Iraq.
Just look at the facts of what N K's leadership are doing to their people.....and threatening their neighbours to the south, kidnapping Japanese civilians.
Its REEEEEAl hard not to attribute the actions of Western governments to that of Hypocritical self serving actions.
And then to make us conspiracy theorists go a little deeper over the edge, look at corporate heads involvements in shady deals with .
Iraq was areas biggest ally in the region...government knew all about his frame of mind then, chose not to care.
Noriega was besstest friend..despite his slightly lacking in character.
Taliban were friends at one time as well when fighting Evil communist hoarde. Evil communist hoarde are now friends and Taliban bad.
The truth is We are never where we are as according to Government TRUTH.....We will always be lied to by The ruling government of the time.
No matter what ANYONE on this board chooses to believe or spout in righteous indignation...we are all being REAMED big time.
"The truth is the first casualty in War."
Ok... for the 1,000,000,000th time (to include national media outlets of all kinds)
Pay attention now... reeeeead the letters below.
.... NORTH KOREA HAS NEVER SHOWN THE PROPENSITY TO UTILIZE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
....IRAQ HAS USED WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
Simple enough?? Is it getting through... "Bueller??.... Bueller??" Ok, now here's another little announcement thats been broadcast a million times
G. Bush 41 said on many occasions that THE GOAL OF DESERT STORM WAS TO OUST IRAQ FROM KUWAIT... NOT REMOVE SADDAM FROM IRAQ. Ok... so don't get started with the "G.B. 41 failed and now his son is finishing" routine. Context guyz... KEEP IT IN CONTEXT!!
:D
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http://www.iraqwatch.org/suppliers/whoarmediraq.pdf
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Concerning the difference between North Korea and Iraq.
It really comes down to what is practical. A war against Iraq would likely result in few casualties to the US or to our allies.
North Korea on the other hand has a very large army and air force sitting about 60 miles north of Seoul which has about 12 million people and a war there would likely result in millions of casualties.
North Korea may have to be dealt with in time. Iraq has had 10 years to conform to their agreement but has balked the whole time. Why should we be so eager to jump on North Korea? Especially since our military has been gutted.
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SO...If having used weapons of mass distruction is the criteria..shouldnt then the USA abandon all weapons of mass distruction? Seems to me They used gas in the first, and then atomic in the second.
Bueller here gets it, Hussein is a wacko, however you seem to need a clue. The USA and Western Governments use double standards on Friends and enemies. That was the point of my post.
We are not receiving the FULL fluff'n story from the Politicians.
Did You read my post Bueller?
Re Read it...Nowhere did I say Saddam should be given a key to a Nuclear arsenal.
Our friends today seem to become our enemies the next. And then it seems they cant be trusted with what they have...dangerous stuff.
Kill the damn double standards and call a spade a spade. No matter how you look at it N K invaded the south..killed alot of westerners, as of recently kidnapped Japanese civilians. They still want control of S K. No matter what Iraq does at this point..it is the full intention of the current Gov of the US to go to war.
NOTE: I COULD CARE LESS IF SADMAN HUSSEIN IS POPPED.
Its the governments deceit I have a problem with.
Ping pops meds.
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Originally posted by Ping
SO...If having used weapons of mass distruction is the criteria..shouldnt then the USA abandon all weapons of mass distruction? Seems to me They used gas in the first, and then atomic in the second.
The US used gas in WWI? Thats' news to me. Though my maternal grandfather, a US marine, was gassed and left for dead in WWI. Sure you don't have it mixed up who was doing the gassing?
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When you need it to support your left wing liberal Anti Americanism..
Like so many others who act like cringing half breed dogs which were beaten as puppies..... who fall all over each other as they try to lick the hands and feet of their master.... so he won't let mean old saddam or bin laden whip them..
You don't deserve the title American if you choose to act like a cringing dog hiding under masters feet...all the while keeping one eye on him hoping he won't be the next to beat you.
By trying to ridicule or defame me down you show your anti-American leanings.
There is nothing anti-American about dissent, on the other hand GWB is the biggest anti-American in the land.
All you have to do is look at his record so far to see it....but you need to remove your rose colored blinders first.
Bin Ladens laughing at you all for how easy it was to turn you into whimpering shells of men.
People like you make me sick.
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Originally posted by weazel
People like you make me sick.
What a coincidence
-Sik
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Originally posted by Tumor
No Sik... this article is simply another way the Democrybabies and Libowussies can take something out of context and spin it to thier liking. It's amuzing though... CRY ON DEMOCRATS!! lol
hmmmm..... I could have sworn I read...
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Originally posted by AKIron
The US used gas in WWI? Thats' news to me. Though my maternal grandfather, a US marine, was gassed and left for dead in WWI. Sure you don't have it mixed up who was doing the gassing?
Gas was used by both sides in WWI. One of the saddest cases happened when the allies used gas on the german lines and the wind shifted...they gassed their own men as a result.
As I have posted previously..this is about Truth..I dont care if a country is a "Friend" or not....If they are guilty of serious violations then they should be held responsable.
I dont care if the Allies need a place to operate from...what is Saudi Arabia up to..Turkey..and to top it all off Pakistan. toejam there is a nuclear war in the making with India.
Here in Canada You cant believe a thing the government tells you..Its pretty close to the same thing in the US. Its all about Lies Deceit and Spin Doctors. Government was supposed to be there to manage the countries services, Not subjugate us and dictate our daily lives. Does it not bother you that you are regularily lied to and deceived by an authority that you are supposed to trust and whom represents your voice?
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I think both sides are right and wrong.
Weazel is right in that terrorism wasn't the only thing to go into the calculation about an invasion. OTOH, rooting out Al Qaeda had a higher priority. All western governments try to get some good economic deal outta a bad situation. It's sound capitalism.
OTOH, when there's little economic incentive or the poplulation isn't really behind military action, it won't take place. North Korea is a good example. The DPRK is a much greater threat to the US than is Iraq, but there's not much to win economically in a war with the DPRK. So the focus will be Iraq. Which is a shame.
Funked wrote:The more important thing is that Al Qaeda has been thoroughly disrupted
Recent attacks and activity indicate that this isn't true. I suspect we'll see a major strike relatively soon. Such rats are hard to kill, especially as they have links to every other crazed fanatical Muslim terror organisation.
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Originally posted by Ping
Gas was used by both sides in WWI. One of the saddest cases happened when the allies used gas on the german lines and the wind shifted...they gassed their own men as a result.
Yes, that's interesting, but did the US use gas? I honestly don't know and would be interested in any information you have on the subject.
-Sik
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Your a so called "conservative".
"Government was supposed to be there to manage the countries services, Not subjugate us and dictate our daily lives. Does it not bother you that you are regularily lied to and deceived by an authority that you are supposed to trust and whom represents your voice?"
[/b]
See cringing dog post above. /\
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Yes, that's interesting, but did the US use gas? I honestly don't know and would be interested in any information you have on the subject.
-Sik
I will have to stand down temporarily on the US as having used it. Just started searching and have not found any info on the Us yet..just The French, British and Germans.
Depending on what you find it was either the French or the Germans that first used it.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/gas.htm
http://www.worldwar1.com/arm006.htm
Still looking.
http://www.indiana.edu/~libgpd/historical/acchs2.pdf
Adobe page 84 mentions the use of gas shell be the 78th
division.
http://www.indiana.edu/~libgpd/historical/acchs4.pdf
Adobe page 90 stating the French fired more gas shells than the 26th division thus drawing more retaliatory strikes.
So Yes..The US most definitely used Gas in WWI.
Info from Cochrane, Rexmond Canning. Gas Warfare in World War I. U.S. Army Chemical Corps Historical Office. Army Chemical Center, Maryland: U.S. Army Chemical Corps Historical Office. 1959-1960.
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ohh yea we used gas they dug up a bunch of gas rounds in new york last year. and we produced the hell out of um in ww2 just never used um.
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Sometimes a thread becomes an exersize in intellectual masterbation with a healthy dose of cut'n paste.
You all take turns ranting, no one listens to one another, there is no discussion..
The point being ???
All I can see is an uncanny resemblance to MG's posts on another board where most people are more than satisfied listening to themselves talk.
Mutual gratification along with a WHOLE lot of soapboxes..
Is it good for you ???
I hope so...but..
It's a chitty read..
.....the hooks are sooooo obvious
:D
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Originally posted by Ping
http://www.indiana.edu/~libgpd/historical/acchs2.pdf
Adobe page 84 mentions the use of gas shell be the 78th
division.
http://www.indiana.edu/~libgpd/historical/acchs4.pdf
Adobe page 90 stating the French fired more gas shells than the 26th division thus drawing more retaliatory strikes.
Great links! thanks.
-Sik
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Yeah Ping, thanks for the research.
Of course I did know that the US has used WMD, hard to forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Very much hoping we never use them again.
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oddly enough, the meaning of WMD has been seriously twisted in the last few years...the original term had nothing to do w/ anthrax or mustard gas... the M ('Mass') in WMD meant mass as in atoms or atomic particles (nuclei), aka A-bombs & H-bombs... nothing to do w/ chem&bio weapons which had a seperate treaty (geneva) devoted to them. so now it convenient to change the semantics, since the atomic/nuclear threat from iraq is laughable and presto, 'mass' now means 'lotsa'...so is a tallboy or a B-52 a WMD?
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Originally posted by whgates3
oddly enough, the meaning of WMD has been seriously twisted in the last few years...
Out of curiosity, when did this change take place?
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Out of curiosity, when did this change take place?
-Sik
Just did some looking:
When I read your post I was thinking about the 1971 Seabed treaty which prohibited Weapons of Mass Destruction from being placed on the ocean floor. So I went ahead and looked at that treaty, to better understand your point. What I noticed was curious to say the least.
The treaty specifically bans "nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction" but declines to specifically name what other "Weapons of Mass Destruction" might be.
But there is no such ambiguity when it comes to the 1975 Biological Weapons protocol, which contains a preambulatory clause stating:
Convinced of the importance and urgency of eliminating from the arsenals of States, through effective measures, such dangerous weapons of mass destruction as those using chemical or bacteriological (biological) agents,
So it is quite possible that the lumping of Chem/Bio with Nuclear occured in the 1970s as the United Nations attempted to expand on the Geneva protocols of 1925 which, if I recall, banned only the Use of these weapons, but not he possession of them.
I'm still interested in the "mass=atomic particles" part of your statement, as I have never heard this before.
-Sik
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weazel wrote:
Any act of critical intelligence, any reasoned effort to see through the mask of power, enrages typical Bush supporters.
When/IF we hear anything intelligent from you then you can make this statement.
Not going to hold my breath waiting for it!
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This is kettle.
I was saving this quote for a toejambird like john9001...but obviously your of the same ilk.
"Patriotism means to stand by the country,
it does not mean to stand by the President
or any other public official."
Theodore Roosevelt
[/i][/b]
BTW, did gypsys swap you out at birth for one of their kids?
Only reason I ask is how can your brother be as intelligent as he is and you be such a handsomehunk?
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Originally posted by Sikboy
I'm still interested in the "mass=atomic particles" part of your statement, as I have never heard this before.
Just sayin :)
-Sik
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Dam Weazel!
You got something against gypsies?
;)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You got something against gypsies?
How can you be so insensitive? They prefer to be called Roma... of course I'd prefer to get my wallet back and thats not going to happen either.
-Sik
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Weazel, that aluminum-lined helmet is on too tight..... :)
Cobra
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I thought it was a crock-pot and it's full of chili.
That's almost as funny as your comment. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Cobra
Weazel, that aluminum-lined helmet is on too tight..... :)
Cobra