Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on September 09, 2000, 03:27:00 AM
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real lanc had a best climb of 270fpm and a ceiling of 20k
ours is still doing 1000fpm at 20k and goes up up up up and up
I thought the lanc would be cool cuz it would have to go in at med low alt and if it got through it could smash stuff to bits but its just another stratodweeb b17 w weak guns and big bombs in AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
so wtf is up?
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d00d no joke th3s3 |\/|G 83s on ju88 are fr33kin powerfull---like .50 cals!!
wtfakk is up w/dis.
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Does Lancaster have 0.50cal guns in tail?Seems it has it in Aces High.
and this lancaster is very maneuverable at 180-200mph. it's like a fighter...
-Mitsu
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Check the engines, they should have a lower critical height than 25k?
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FM? Who cares! What I really want to know is why the pilot has a PADDED CHAIR! WTF!!!
Btw: The AH Lancaster is a Mk III. It had 1640hp engines(P-M 224) with paddle-blade props, and 2x.50in tail guns. Some also had a Martin mid-upper turret like the B-17 and B-26.
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 09-09-2000).]
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Stop whining (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AH's Lanc can easily climb to 30k but tail-gunners ammo-load is quite small (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Remember, No belly turret....
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Lanc
Its fun to play with..
It can defend itself somewhat.
It can level the city itself.
Both the bombers introduced last night are signifigantly different then the current ones. The JU88 is gona have real problems I think. Other then the interesting bombloads, and its ability to dive bomb(which AH accuracy makes unnecassary in AH) it will have real trouble in the arena
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But it is LW!
I'll fly it.
And, I can outmaneuver fighters in it.
DIVE for friendlies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
It is also beautiful. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Santa you forget Ju-88 looks sexier than those allied junks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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The multitude of lancs at 30k+ today was unreal.
Of course I have no idea what their ceiling was, but 30k+ seems a little high to me.
I think lancs are going to have a pretty big impact if they can sneak into HQ at 30k+ and drop so much load. Only need a few, compared to many B17s.
Fury
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I just foiled a lanc raid on bish hq...
killed 2 20k lancasters and a thrid died to flak
a fourth lancaster showed up at 36k!!!! and killed off HQ
I climbed up and chased him from hq to a1
he said I killed his 2 right engines and his tail gunner. I ran outa ammo and laned and he landed too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
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Originally posted by Staga:
Santa you forget Ju-88 looks sexier than those allied junks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Only if you're into painted-up tramps (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I have a nagging feeling that Ju88 and lancaster flight models have been accidentally switched?
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OW ya staga, she is one sexy buff (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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I'll post more on the Aircraft/bug page.
Lancaster had a ceiling of 24,500ft but I have pilot document write ups of Lancasters going to target at 24k and in one write up returning at 27k. These were 1943 circa Lancs. They were also trying to get them higher with the introduction of a new bomb sight which was used on about half of the squadrons. This bomb sight had an accuracy range of 30k (to within 80 yards).
I'll ask a buddy who is a total Lancaster expert - he literally knows them inside and out.
Regards
'Nexx'
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80 yards is pretty damned good.
I've heard that during the Lancaster bombings of German facilities and cities, a hit within 300 meters of a target was considered a "hit".
300 meters is somewhat longer than 80 yards (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Allied bombing was never considered "precision" - even by their own surveys.
Even with the advent of radar-guided bombing (H2S and H2X), the minimum error on these systems was a 1 mile CEP.
Even the much vaunted Norden did not properly account for both a/c drift or winds.
Face it, at best any of the high altitude (more than 10k ft) bombing done by the Allies was area 'terror' bombing.
Cheers,
Rifle
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Yep, 80 yards is very good but many other things will always change the accuracy - wind, cloud, bomb aimer error, and the most significant one for Lancasters was obviously low light! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
Regards
'Nexx'
[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 09-10-2000).]
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H2S/H2X was a navigation aid, it didn't help them to aim bombs. Didn't help them navigate much either, actually. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Juzz - go read "The invention that changed the world" by Robert Buderi.
They used it as a bombing aid.
BTW H2S = 'S' Band(10 cm) and H2X = 'X' Band (3-cm)
Cheers,
Rifle
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Yeah, I had the pleasure of chasing a pair of 36k Lancs over our HQ last night myself. The worst part was that they were flown by members of a well-known Bish squad that I had some respect for as being above such behavior. I guess I know better now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Not only that, but even after I disabled one of the bombers the other was able to knock out our HQ.
All my sources cite the Lancs ceiling at around 20 - 24k. ROC seems off as well.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Well,, I ran into one person, and after he was informed that Lancs dinnae fly that high, he said he wouldn't take it so high again.
Thanks SOB, class act there <S!> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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I find it interesting that an individual who decides he is going to make his Lanc easy prey for fighters is called a "class act" and those that use about the only real form of defence the lanc has, altitude, as "gaming the game".
I won't fly at 40k in one but I will take it to 35k so that I do have a chance to get to the target and back. The last time I did I had two fighters come up and shoot me. One was a 109 the other a p-47.
Now to those of you that contend that the Lanc could never acheive those heights and therefore it is not historical to do so consider this also if you will: how historical was it for a P-47 to climb, pursue and shoot at a Lanc? For that matter, how historical is it to have opposing forces flying the same plane?
This is a simulation of ACM. I like to see some historical precedence in it too, but if the Lanc is not given the opportunity to defend itself in about the only way it can why bother even flying it?
Most bomber sorties in the main arena are solo events. There are the few times one gets to fly in a formation with others and that would preclude to a certain extent the necessity to fly so high. They can afford each other some protection. Also if the bombers in question can get an escort then flying low at realistic flight levels becomes something that can actually add more fun to the sortie. The lanc, even in formation is still very vulnerable to low attacks. It would require dedicated and experienced players to really make a go of it.
As long as a fighter can still get to me I feel he has an equal chance. Does it make it difficult to climb that high? Sure it does. When I fly a fighter I make it as difficult as I can for the other guy to shoot me down, so why does it become "gaming the game" when I do the same in a Lanc?
If I suspect someone is heading towards my HQ I don't wait till the last minute to try to climb up to him. If people will heed the warnings given by others or keep one eye on the radar we have, they can generaly get to alt in time to do something about it.
Of course this is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to one and as posted in this thread most don't seem to agree with mine. This will always be a debate and I can't see it ever satisfying both the fighter jocks or the buffers anywhere in the near future.
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MarkAT
"It is not the critic who counts,
it is the man in the arena..."
Teddy Roosevelt
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I don't see this as being a "fighter" vs. "buffer" debate. It's more of "how do you fly your buff".
When flying a lone buff, I know my chances of survival are pretty low. I choose to fly with a buff formation, or with escorts, in order to increase my chances of returning; rather than take advantage of a possible bug to increase my chances. I am a buffer more than a fighter; and my personal choice is not to take any buff over 24k.
My choice is not necessarily because it's not "historical" because I am not a historian and really have no idea how these planes performed in real life.
What's the fun and skill in flying over everyone else, where they can't catch you? I don't find that fun. I find it much more enjoyable to engage fighters during my run, regardless of the results, than to fly 10k over them, knowing they have no chance of catching me.
HTC has some lanc fix today, hopefully this will all bee moot by tomorrow morning.
Fury
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MarkAT - that's the whole point of this discussion you're missing - Lancs didn't have the altitude as their defence. Thinking about it - they din't have much of anything as their defence - that's why they were flying nights.
And from AH point of view it is very historical for P47 to do all things you list for a very simple reason - it could do all that!
Lanc could not get to 30K+ hence flying it there is "gaming the game". It is a simulation of ACM - you said it yourself. Lanc could not M(anoeuvre) at altidutes it's flying now, it's a bug, it will be fixed, hence "gaming..."
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF