Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on January 06, 2002, 12:16:00 AM
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fishu's streak record remains #!@#!
one day I'm gonna top it I swear :)
but now back to furballing :D
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who are you citabria? you newbie!! Get out of my sights before i shoot you down!... Hmm..
well, batdog has chicken pot pie... i think I have some too!
ps
psst!... oct is a little drunk.. dont pay any attention to him
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Originally posted by Octavius:
who are you citabria? you newbie!! Get out of my sights before i shoot you down!... Hmm..
well, batdog has chicken pot pie... i think I have some too!
ps
psst!... oct is a little drunk.. dont pay
any attention to him
[EDIT: hey animal, dont worry, I've had many cups of water so far :D I think i've passed the "Point of no hangover."
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S!
Nice job fester!
Well, you'd have way better overall k/d (k/d now only 58.5), so wipe your tears and do something about it dweeb! :D
To be honest if someone can get 58.5 k/d and still has kills/sortie 4.03 and kills/time 0.0024, that's pretty good job, no?
:cool:
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Since when do friggen AI's post here? Man..HTC that is one hell of a program!
xBAT
P.S. Very nice Fester
P.S.S I aint got no Chicken Pot Pie... darn wife didnt buy me any last grocery store visit. :(
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Only 116, youre slipping!!! Go hide in the corner, shameful..... :)
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Perk the P38 ! :p
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perk saw!
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Originally posted by Octavius:
[EDIT: hey animal, dont worry, I've had many cups of water so far :D I think i've passed the "Point of no hangover."
Well done grasshoppah, well done.
As for the endless streaks: Big deal. A good pilot is not measured by streaks, or score, or victories. Its measured by style. Going out of your way and losing alt to kill a chute... Flying for 20 minutes to die at the hands of 13 japanese gang-bangers (knowing that YOU started the fight!)... Getting 15 vulch kills... intentionally ramming someone when you are out of ammo...
Citabria, you lack these skills.
You might as well go back to flying with the AssAss<--INs and leave the P-38L to those players who can have the right lifestyle.
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Saw used to be tha mad poster. He worked his but off to get to the top and only to get his info dumped one day by RONNIE :D Perk Saw only in number of post :D Add about 3500 to his total now :D
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I've known most of y'all for awhile now, excellent flyers all <S>
But I can't for the life of me figure how the hell to get past a 12 kill sorte let alone something into the low hundred range. I musta been wingin Frenchy too long :D
Anyway, wtg Cit <<S>>
I did get Nuttz last night in my p47-d30 while he was flying a niki :D
It was a good fight too, we were both around 12k and it was 1 vs 1. Doesn't beat the time I got fester while he flying a zeke though, hehe :p
I do have my moments of joy...
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Nomde, something I always wanted to ask you; if you go down in flames and leave a spiraling cloud of smoke above the wreck, is it called a "Nomde Plume"? ;)
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Nice job, Citabria !
Fishu is still unbeaten though. Where is he now anyway ?!
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Originally posted by Hristo:
Nice job, Citabria !
Fishu is still unbeaten though. Where is he now anyway ?!
Still at the same address ;)
Though, game choices has changed few times..
IL-2 rocks as a flight sim though... http://koti.mbnet.fi/fishu/il2/kalach/ (http://koti.mbnet.fi/fishu/il2/kalach/)
Whats your ICQ nowadays?-)
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Yeah Fishu rocked "back then" when AH was a babe and had only about 60-80 peeps on at any one time.
I wonder how he would do today with hundreds and hundreds of dweebs to choose from at any given moment ;)
PS nice work fester
(http://www.13thtas.com/yeagersig.jpg)
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hehe kieran :D
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By the way, for those of us that have only been here for a few months, exactly how many did this fishu get on his streak?
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Heya Fishu !
No ICQ, but you can find me in the Hyperlobby most evenings.
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Originally posted by Durr:
By the way, for those of us that have only been here for a few months, exactly how many did this fishu get on his streak?
From the score pages:
Query results:
fishu has 278 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Fw 190A-8.
That was during beta tour 2 (my first tour BTW).
[ 01-06-2002: Message edited by: SageFIN ]
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Originally posted by Yeager:
[QB]I wonder how he would do today with hundreds and hundreds of dweebs to choose from at any given moment ;)
[/B]
I don't think amount of players really makes a difference.
More difference makes that what "rules" you have and how well you know your plane and the plane you're opposing.
...that added with skills to get to hit and avoid something, so you don't end up without kills or being killed in instant when someone gets behind.
Talking of that, I were 3 times very close to dying during the streak.
Once B-17 shot half the wing off just as I shot him down and barely made it home.. wingtip loss occured twice.
Other time, I think it was Kieren in P-51, shot my Fw190a8 belly full of .50 cals, but by a miracle, nothing broke and I shot him down. (thanks for thinking I was dead after the hits and fixating target :))
So, it needs some big luck too :D
Though, I don't think I'll be playing AH in the close future, due to lack of interest.
(after playing WWII OL/IL2... AH Me109 feels like a bomber)
So everyone can think themself how my skills are, was or could be.
I don't look for streaks in the games anymore.. nowadays I get my stress from elsewhere :>
in fact I lost my interest to streak during the streak, since it became too stressful and was already affecting in real life
Hopefully I didn't talk too much :I
Getting too enthusiac remembering the ol' times.
Anyhow, congrats Citabria :)
Almost forgot to congratulate
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....whats the hyperlobby?
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what's cherry picking?
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WTG Fester!
I agree with Yeager on this one. Not to take anything away from Fishu's accomplishments, however, I have been here since the first beta tour and I assure you, the current MA compared to the beta MA is apples and oranges.
In addition, had fishu flown the 38, would he have accomplished the same as he did in his A8?
Both streaks are impressive and require patience, E management skills and great SA.
<S> to you both! :)
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Rude ]
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Originally posted by Rude:
I assure you, the current MA compared to the beta MA is apples and oranges.
In addition, had fishu flown the 38, would he have accomplished the same as he did in his A8?
I played AH last time online during september/october or something like that, for about 1.5 months and that time it didn't seem much different, unless it has changed in last 2-3 months of course :)
I liked P38J in WarBirds (though, not the L)
though, was much better in WB than it is in AH.
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Fishu-
Here's what is very different; the arena is far more crowded now. It used to be possible to find fights with one or two people. That is very difficult to do now. What makes lone-wolfing more dangerous than ever before is the very real likelihood of getting mobbed. While your record-setting kill streak is impressive, it would be difficult if not impossible to do now.
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Better cherry picker than a cherry !
Fishu, Hyperlobby is application for Il-2 multiplayer sessions.
Do I detect certain envy around ? Give Fishu a break, will you ? For me it was far easier to streak in summer 2001 than in autumn 1999. Why ? Because of higher numbers in the arena ! Much easier to jump someone ;).
Fishu made his streak in 190A-8, against P51Ds, G-10s, La5FNs, Nikis, Spit IXs and Hogs (not sure of them though). You think it would be different if he took the D-9 this tour ?
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Hehe,
Who got ya Cit??
Don't say you don't remember ;)
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Kieran,
Fight must not be too small nor too big, thats the best fight to get kills with least danger.
would you have thought of the streak being possible back then either?
F4udoa,
lemme guess.. Chog or Niki dweeb shot him down?-) :D
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Fishu ]
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Hristo-
I have never criticized your style of play, never stated you or Fishu were without skill, I only placed an opinion about the differences in the arena. If you are arrogant enough to think I am envious and therefore knocking Fishu, you're wrong.
If running a big streak is your thing, go for it. The sheer boredom of seeking that record is plenty to keep me from ever trying (and no, I probably couldn't get that high if I tried). Me, I'll stay low and in the action, thank you very much. I'll keep my eyes up looking for cherry pickers, thank you very much. ;)
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Yes, Fishu, I would have. One could always cruise along at about 20K or so back then and pick and choose fights. What is different now is most fights are huge, and you aren't going to find that many optimal sized engagements. And let's be clear what we're talking about; you are referring to a small furball where SA going in fast is easy and big enough the bad guy is occupied. This doesn't mean you aren't exercising any skills, but it does mean you are finding the best balance between easy SA for you and overloaded SA for him. Make a pass through that with your Fw190A8 and bad guys die. You zoom free and in search for the next victim.
I used to take the A8 on the deck and plow through furballs; at that time it was one of the fastest planes on the deck, and once clear of a furball there was little chance you could be caught. That'll get you killed now, because the fights are bigger, the planes are faster, and there are fewer places to run.
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Originally posted by Kieran:
The sheer boredom of seeking that record is plenty to keep me from ever trying
It might not necessarily be boredom, but its very stressing, at least been for me when doing the streaks.
With all "senses" being in alert without a break.
Bigger mass doesn't really mean bigger danger, since it also means more friendlies who will knowingly go after that one poor sucker behind you when you go towards your own field - ala ol' good gang bang style.
If theres too few friendlies, it just means the bogey will have less things to worry and will stick on you even more.
I suppose you're Kieren, but with that odd 'a' instead of 'e' right?
Good example for you.. being more after the other enemy fighters than the one who you just shot few times too many.
If there wouldn't been others, you'd been more glued up to make sure the 190 went down.
My normal cruising altitude was 8-16k, because I wanted to reserve my fuel.
Theres no sense going above 20k unless really need to.
Also with altitude, I was not afraid of dogfightning 1 on 1 with spitfire if there was enough altitude and friendly support close enough run from the altitude -> friendlies.
and fewer SA - over bigger fights, I was constantly afraid of higher planes, which just made me more to look around.
When theres fewer planes, you don't need that much SA, thanks to this radar.
You're having much easier time tracking the cons, but in big furball, theres unknown amount of enemies and you have to be constantly peering above you.
I refer them as 'Hawks', who often are more of a cherry pickers than I ever have.
I just dont like it nice when someone seems to underestimate 1 on 1 skills and fault as cherry picker who does only lousy BnZ's :(
I've played Dawn of Aces, where BnZ hardly was an option and there I had great times in dogfights, actually more fun than in AH ever (less BnZ crap) and along with many streaks, my highlight in DoA was 96 kills in 14 sorties, with one death. (due to not following the rules I had set)
Many times I've wished to have early war planes in AH, since that increases the amount of skill needed to dogfight, IMO.
Anyway, I guess I should shut up before thread goes way off the topic and flamewar starts.
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Fishu ]
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"Better cherry picker than a cherry !"
I disagree. For all the "challenge" associated with shooting down the unaware (cherry picking) you'd figure one could save the online subscription fee $$ and play against AI in some box game ;)
Cherry picking is much like a biker that rides the fringe of an on-foot gang fight who blows through the fight in progress to smash someone already occupied with an opponant. Such a method of online "combat" hardly warrants "awe" let alone respect.
IMO folks who fly and kill like that are much like 'l33t 5n1p3r dEwD's' in FPS games who start chest thumping when they've sniped xxx people.
Westy
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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I'm not flaming Fishu, and in fact I compliment your skills. I think you misunderstand me there. But you should know you have not weakened my view of flying for streaks in the least. I know you would take the 1 vs. 1, never disputed that. But you know you also would bust through furballs, too.
There are a great number of dedicated LW pilots that can work a furball very well, staying around to fight until the odds turn too sour. No, I wouldn't turnfight for long with a Spit either, but I will go a turn or two in an A5 just to see what the Spit is made of. If the guy is not good I will get him; if he looks like someone that knows his stuff I can always leave.
In a furball this can be a bit harder if I want to TnB, because multiple Spits are bad news. I have to keep the speed up and pick the targets more carefully. Notice how I am careful not to call these "fights"? I am no longer engaging enemies 1 vs. 1, rather I am looking for the distracted foe. A 190 in this environment will now extend more and enter the fight with more smash. You know this, of course.
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Originally posted by O'Westy:
IMO folks who fly and kill like that are much like 'l33t 5n1p3r dEwD's' in FPS games who start chest thumping when they've sniped xxx people.
Westy
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
You got that right. I am not flying for others to have fun. I fly to give them a bad time :D.
Kieran, I was not trying to be arrogant with you. What I wanted was for others to see that streaking has a lot involved. It is not just boring flying. It is SA, E management, patience, gunnery. But most of all it takes nerves.
95% of pilots in AH can take Spit V, dive into furball, get 3 kills and die. Some of us just don’t find that fun.
IMO, mindless furballing is a relaxation compared to high streaking. With you streak getting higher, you have to fight yourself too. Try it sometimes.
And one crazy suicide kamikaze ack diving dweeb can put an end to it anytime.
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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You got that right. I am not flying for others to have fun. I fly to give them a bad time.
I am sure most other people do the same as me and give cherry pickers very little mind, much less let them ruin my AH experience--don't be sure that your flying style predominantly effectuates your goal in AH of 'giving other's a bad time'. Because I can assure you it doesn't.
95% of pilots in AH can take Spit V, dive into furball, get 3 kills and die. Some of us just don’t find that fun.
True, but what seperates us l33t 'spit dweebz' from others is that we come out with 8 kills. Are you suggesting that you would only be capable of 3 kills in a SpitV? eek. ;)
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Nath[BDP] ]
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There are many NathBDPs, there is just one Fishu ;)
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Equivocal.
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My belly hurts.
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Originally posted by Hristo:
95% of pilots in AH can take Spit V, dive into furball, get 3 kills and die. Some of us just don’t find that fun.
Wow, 95% can get 3 kills in a furball? I'm glad the stats on the Spit V bear this out with its remarkable 3:1 K/D ratio.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Hristo:
IMO, mindless furballing is a relaxation compared to high streaking. With you streak getting higher, you have to fight yourself too. Try it sometimes.
if you guys know anything about how casinos stay in business then you will understand how heavy against you the odds are once you get a very high kill streak. You fly the same as you did for the first hundred kills but everything is more intense. you dont run from 1v1s or 2v2s. you fly with your wingman, you analyze the situation much more than you did before. you predict exactly what will happen before you make your moves and then you act based on those predictions. its the challenge of it is why I try to do it once every tour before my first death. it is very difficult the further you go because the odds are against you with disco's, warps, bounces, stalkers and all sorts of nasty surprises waiting to end your reign of terror.
what keeps people playing this game is the challenge and the enjoyment they get from it. thats what keeps me playing.
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Citabria ]
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Wow, 95% can get 3 kills in a furball? I'm glad the stats on the Spit V bear this out with its remarkable 3:1 K/D ratio.
-- Todd/Leviathn
There's a difference in can and do. Spit V suffers because not everyone is a Quaker in AH. Poor Spitty ;)
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Originally posted by Hristo:
There's a difference in can and do. Spit V suffers because not everyone is a Quaker in AH. Poor Spitty ;)
Now you're not making any sense at all. If a Spit V can enter a furball and rack up three kills by 95% of all players, then it surely would do better in non-furball situations such as 1v1s or 1v2s. I expect that its baseline K/D ratio would exceed 3:1 if this were true. Factor in then vulches and self-adoring cherry pickers BnZing the furballs, and I still find it entirely unlikely that this would drop all the way to 1:1.
Or here's another explanation: In order to feel superior to others, you incessantly belittle both what they fly and the way they fly it. To that end, you justify your superiority complex with roadkill numbers ungrounded in fact.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I hope AH had a streak counter, waiting start of tour to get a streak is borring.
I love flying for streaks, and I had a real blast flying 262 for streak last tour, but if you really want a long streak you need 3 things: luck, luck, and luck again. Even with most careful flying I get about every 20th death due to net issues, like people shotting me down while I am in warp, or I ram warping plane. You never knows when it will happen, so even with the best skills of the world if you get unlucky day -- say your streak good bye :)
Fariz
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Originally posted by Hristo:
There are many NathBDPs, there is just one Fishu ;)
I remember Fishu's flying, and I remember Nath's flying. Nath is way better.
Fariz
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If AH was a big furball with everyone pulling the stick like mad, Spit V would be top killer.
95% of AH players can jump in Spit V, rack up 3 kills in furball and die. In situation where everyone is pulling the stick all the way back, Spit V dominates. It starts to suffer when other people let go off the stick. Outside of furballs, Spit V is hopeless.
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Originally posted by Fariz:
I remember Fishu's flying, and I remember Nath's flying. Nath is way better.
Fariz
What is 'better' in air combat ?
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Originally posted by Hristo:
What is 'better' in air combat ?
For me good pilot is the one who can turn the table while starts from a disadvantage and in a worse plane. If he can do it against all other AH pilots -- he is the best AH pilot.
Fariz
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To me the best pilot is the one who never finds himself in a situation where he has to show how good he is.
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Ahh...so if he never goes anywhere near a fight he's the best pilot? Got it.
bowser
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Hristo:
So if enemy fighters show up above you and the bombers you are escorting, you just leave?
Hooligan
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When someone shoots down 278 planes and never gets shot down in AH, he is the best pilot in AH.
If someone escorts bombers and finds enemy above him, he is not the best pilot. He made a mistake.
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Ahh...so if he never goes anywhere near a fight he's the best pilot? Got it.
bowser
Quote of the week candidate. :D
Hristo, I know Fishu is a good stick; but you have to admit, these guys have a point. Whereas Fishu has displayed exceptional ability in one fashion, it remains to be determined whether he excels in a like fashion in other forms of combat, i.e. escort. Like it or not, there are better-rounded pilots out there that can do it all- maybe not run up large kill streaks, but you are pretty sure when they are around you will get kills and so would they. Mitsu, Fester, Drex, Ygsmilo, etc., are better overall pilots.
Fishu is a lone-wolf pilot without peer. He may be the best overall pilot, but I don't think we have enough evidence to know. Guess the only way we will know is if he comes back and shows us. ;)
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Yeah, 278 kills with a .0009 kill/time stat....
I could do that just by hanging in the outskirts of a furball, but I ain't got an hour to kill just to get one victory.
-SW
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Originally posted by Hristo:
If AH was a big furball with everyone pulling the stick like mad, Spit V would be top killer.
No, the Zeke (for pure turning ability) or the Hurricane IIC (for turning ability combined with guns) would dominate. Both planes also appear to take more damage than the Spit V, the Hurricane substantially so.
95% of AH players can jump in Spit V, rack up 3 kills in furball and die. In situation where everyone is pulling the stick all the way back, Spit V dominates. It starts to suffer when other people let go off the stick. Outside of furballs, Spit V is hopeless.
First of all, it doesn't dominate in the situation you've just described. Neither the plane statistics nor the kill buffer substantiate your ridiculous claim that 95% of all Spit V pilots can achieve three kills on average while furballing. It's simply not true, and doubtless even you'd have difficulty achieving a 3:1 K/D ratio if you're simply turning ad infinitum in a furball.
The Spit V is a competent plane outside of furballs if flown properly. Unless you mean that it can't chase down running.. err... tactically retreating... enemies, in which case you'd be right. But inability to catch an opponent does not necessarily equate to hopelessness.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yup thats not really a hard thing to acheive, especially in an A8. Sounds like climb somewhere safe, cruise to edge of fight or their base, vulch em, run, climb somewhere safe again. Kinda like watching grass grow.
Its like the guys who fly buffs to 35k... whats the challenge? Then the guys like Craven who fly their buffs in at 10k FOR the challenge :)
If you take the time I'd say the top 30% of guys in AH could accomplish this easily. Whereas when you fight Cit, or Drex, or Mitsu, you really know it coz you come out with a sore bellybutton saying "how the f**k"... :)
Originally posted by SWulfe:
Yeah, 278 kills with a .0009 kill/time stat....
I could do that just by hanging in the outskirts of a furball, but I ain't got an hour to kill just to get one victory.
-SW
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Yea, that quote would probably be the quote of the week. Totally out of context and robbed of its true meaning. Be sure to have the 278/0 attached to it when you post it though.
In the end, everyone flies the way he enjoys it. Nothing wrong with it. If everyone flew smart, there would be no cherries to pick.
However, this whole discussion started when certain types tried to question Fishu's record. Pretty low, IMO. I remember him being accused of even exploiting the volcano bug for it.
In fact, I remember the time when he was doing it. He was taunted by 2 P51 pilots when he dove to ack from them. If he was a Quaker, he'd turn around for sure. Would that make him a brave pilot ? Hardly, we don't die here.
Fishu knocked down 278 planes in Fw 190A-8 ! And nobody got him ! Nobody out of those P51s, G-10s, Nikis, Spits and La5FNs. That counts in my book. 278/0. It is way different than knocking down 400 planes while being shot down 100 times.
Fishu deserves more than just being called a cherrypicker for his achievement.
As for being well rounded - it is a possibility that there are better overall pilots. They learned their knolwedge by countless deaths and reups. Constant streaking may make you rusty in stallfighting techniques and ACM (and hitting the silk, for that matter).
But streaking develops other skills, patience being one of the most imporetant. Constant fighting from disadvantage might earn you respect, but you are still fighting other guy's fight. I have tried most of these tactics and only streaking gets my attention in the long run.
Still, and IMO, streaking is The Most Intense way of flying in online sims. It always was for me. You are not allowed a single mistake for a whole tour - otherwise it is all lost. Now that is demanding.
Speaking of best pilots - I'd rather have my airforce full of sneaky old foxes than of furballing whirling dervishes.
Over and out
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Originally posted by Hristo:
When someone shoots down 278 planes and never gets shot down in AH, he is the best pilot in AH.
Nope, wrong again. Flying conservatively and achieving a large number of kills to no deaths is just fine, but it's no objective measure of skill... more like a measure of patience and self-control, but doubtful skill.
If someone escorts bombers and finds enemy above him, he is not the best pilot. He made a mistake.
Now this is just idiotic. Why not go orbital to 50k in a 262 every flight? I guarantee you'll be the best out there.
Altitude does not equal skill, it equals opportunity.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Step off the high-horse, Hristo. You wanna worship Fishu, fine. Speaking for myself, I respect what I saw, but I won't extrapolate on what I didn't. You basically tell us to not disrespect your style of flight while disprespecting others.
As for the quote? I'll stand on it, but if you prefer, we can lay both quotes side-by-side. It doesn't change it in any way if you ask me.
To me the best pilot is the one who never finds himself in a situation where he has to show how good he is. - Hristo
Ahh...so if he never goes anywhere near a fight he's the best pilot? Got it.
-bowser
How can you be so certain a pilot is "good" unless he is tested. What you seem to admire in Fishu is his ability to avoid a challenge- or am I reading you wrong, too? I have to agree with Lazs here, the steely discipline you talk about here sounds to me like an ability to fight off the waves of boredom that attempt to overwhelm you. Your inner child is calling "have fun", but the adult in you is forced to quantify that fun- that is, attach a number to it.
But, don't recognize the fact that there are probably any number of pilots who quite possibly could give Fishu a run for his money in a fair fight. You can believe he is "the best" if you wish, I suppose. I won't say he isn't; I say there is no way to know based on one stat.
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OK, back to the discussion.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
[/qb]
Now this is just idiotic. Why not go orbital to 50k in a 262 every flight? I guarantee you'll be the best out there.
Altitude does not equal skill, it equals opportunity.
-- Todd/Leviathn
So, according to DMF, Todd and Leviathn, a good pilot defends bombers from disadvantage, counting on skill to create the opportunity ?
What would the bomber guys say about that pilot. Idiotic, maybe ?
Kieran, good post. But how do you know about the waves of boredom ? How do you know what is boring to someone else ? How do you know what is a challenge to Fishu ? Maybe his streak was a bigger challenge than 2 P51s taunting him.
Some of us cherrypickers made a choice in our online flightsim carrer. I am still not bored with my choice.
Although I admit, I am bad at respecting other people's flying style. Sorry :p
P.S.
And it is not that some of the great pilots mentioned above are not trying to beat Fishu's record ;). It is stil here, 2 years now.
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Really, Hristo, I put that reference in their tongue-in-cheek. I will flat out say I couldn't ever achieve that number because I would ultimately tire of it- assuming I have the skill to do it anyway (which I doubt). I am not in that league. Somehow I still manage to find a way to enjoy this sim, even though I am doomed to be a lesser pilot with horrible streak capability. ;)
And if you know me, you know I don't really care how anyone plays and honestly believe every level of play requires some skill. That is one reason I suppose I don't like to see people calling for ways to limit what others do- everyone can attribute validity to what they do, and tear down what others do. But why? It's a big world, and we can certainly all do what we like in it as far as I can tell.
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Again, good post Kieran. I can only agree and really step out of this thread now.
And yes, I appologize if I stepped on someone's toes here.
Now back to cherrypicking !
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Originally posted by Hristo:
So, according to DMF, Todd and Leviathn, a good pilot defends bombers from disadvantage, counting on skill to create the opportunity ?
A good pilot defends bombers with whatever cards are dealt him. It's unrealistic both in terms of history and in terms of player patience to expect buffs and their escorts to grab to 45k every mission to avoid even the possibility of encountering higher or equal-alt enemies.
I consider the better pilot to be the one who successfully escorts buffs at 10k rather than one who successfully escorts buffs at 45k. It's clear the the former mission is tougher, and it takes a broader set of skills to achieve success.
What would the bomber guys say about that pilot. Idiotic, maybe ?
I think they'd say, "What's the dot waaaaaay up there, and why isn't it attacking these enemy cons rapidly approaching us from below?" Either that or they'd say, "Thanks for the help!"
The answer to every situation in AH is not to grab more altitude. That may work for you, but spare me the roadkill about how that's more skillful than someone who is able to do the same or more with less.
Kieran, good post. But how do you know about the waves of boredom ? How do you know what is boring to someone else ? How do you know what is a challenge to Fishu ? Maybe his streak was a bigger challenge than 2 P51s taunting him.
I agree with you here. I wholeheartedly support players flying in a manner that suits them and is personally enjoyable. If flying to live was Fishu's thing, and he enjoyed it, then I certainly don't have a problem with that.
The problem arises when you begin using this method of flying to belittle other methods of flying, which you've been doing.
Some of us cherrypickers made a choice in our online flightsim carrer. I am still not bored with my choice.
Others have made a choice exactly contrary to yours, and they aren't bored either.
And it is not that some of the great pilots mentioned above are not trying to beat Fishu's record ;). It is stil here, 2 years now.
You see, the problem is that many of these "great pilots" just don't care about the streak. I can't see Drex going for 300 straight kills (because he sucks too much). Nath would sooner killshooter himself on me to replane quickly rather than streaking.
Who's to say if the streak would have stood for two years if some of those who don't care about it did care.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Hristo wrote:
"To me the best pilot is the one who never finds himself in a situation where he has to show how good he is"
First define your fighter pilot. Whilst there's an obvious wisdom to what Hristo has said in the above, few serving pilots have the choice we gamers enjoy. Consider Pierre Clostermen, or any Jabo pilot of your choice. How does one outmanouvre an ack defended field? Consider the Spits rolling in on He 111's; dumb really, with the certain knowledge of the 109's above, or the particular skill and bravery of the Ramjægers. Consider Nowotny, making situations, not reacting to them; he had to choice of where or when to fly.
"If someone escorts bombers and finds enemy above him, he is not the best pilot. He made a mistake."
As an escort, the buffs dictate positioning. once contact has been made, the advantage is with the attacker. If you're not where the buffs are, you're not escorting, your sweeping. You must react. At the same time, an escort is concerned with defeating attacks, not kills. Escorts break off and return to position much earlier than a sweep or rhubarb pilot. Success is measured by living buffs, not dead enemy.
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Come on guys.. let's quit fightning over nothing, im tired of that.
I might of been cherry picker during the streak, but you can bet there was tight situations more than enough.. you just can't avoid ones once the time comes.
I have done furballing, dogfightning... etc., not only streaked.
Theres time when regular dogfight with high probability to die just doesn't feel like it..
After streaking, you might feel like going into the fights against the odds again.
Citabria described the fun in streaking quite well in this thread.
In fact I love tight dogfights more than any BnZ.
Thats where I remember Dawn of Aces very warmly... it was *great* time.
Too bad some of you, who think me more of a cherry picker, didn't see me fightning there against the odds in furballs and coming out with bunch of kills.
DVa was a Camel killer :)
I still have lots of gun camera gif animations from DoA (thx goes to Rehn for doing such a program!) and some score statistics...
..and I always wished AH to have more early war planes, those makes up for cooler dogfights.
Fariz,
Last 3 fights that I remember against nath, were victories.. were also 1 on 1
first was at disadvantage, then at coaltitude and then with advantage.
It was when I played for 1.5 months and skills were quite rusty after not playing any flight sims for months... (the WWII mod for UO time made a pause for flight sims :))
Though, we haven't battled each others otherwise as we've usually been on same side and even same squad ;)
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Fishu ]
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I recall a fellow in WarBirds,Wiskyn was his handle.He holds the record for missions flown,and never getting shot down.I was in his squad at that time,and it was something to behold,as he lived online,and he didn't hesitate to mix it up.I realize that I'm prolly out of order speaking of another sim,but I'm amazed by people like Citibria,Wiskyn,Drex,Fishu,etc.I count myself very fortunate to enjoy all these online sims,and participate with such individuals.
Dobe
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Fishu, I saw it there. You had a few handles, I know you can fly and never have denied that. What I am responding to is the assertation that you are the best AH pilot ever based on the streak. You also know as well as I do that what one does in one game doesn't necessarily reflect in another.
The air combat in DoA was completely different from here. If you wanted kills there you had to mix it up, there was no other way. As I recall you were a phenomenal shot, very important in that game with a pilot kill so easy to give (or, if you liked the DVa, receive). I saw you alone in many a mess holding your own. I will say that, though you did often mix it up (I remember your Cl2 prowess) you just as often could be found at 15K or so. I know, because I was up there too. ;) Ah, what a game. Nothing like throwing that beautiful DVa into a cloud of Camels (before the big "tweak")...
In the end, if it is to be said you are the best of AH, I would want something more substantial to hang it on. It won't bring world peace or anything, but it would be a statement of fact then, rather than an opinion. I think Hristo understands where I am coming from, I hope you can, too.
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Last 3 fights that I remember against nath, were victories.. were also 1 on 1
first was at disadvantage, then at coaltitude and then with advantage.
Only remember one, when I was in low 190A8 against your yak, which you won by shooting my oil out then waited for me to ditch.
Pilot skill is determined by how well a pilot adapts to a situation he's put in or puts himself into for reasons of enhancing his own flying skills or just outright doing what he's supposed to be doing--shooting the enemy down.
"Aggressiveness" in air combat has always been renowned by fighter pilots as the deciding trait between the worst and best.
Hartmann, Priller, Witmann(pz), Bong etc, do you think they got all their glory from trying to save their own asses? No way--they were killers and weren't afraid to put their lives on the line for their countries.
Exceding as a human being is all about taking risks doing things you might not know the consquence of--but in the end you may come out victorious and sometimes you'll come out in defeat. But you will always be successfull in many other less obvious levels, which will nevertheless help you in the long term.
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Nath[BDP] ]
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That prolly didn't make much sense but what basically when I'm saying is that a gamer earns my respect and is considered good when they do things that are unique and stay in my mind and make me remember them. They are willing to take risks and better themselves but challenging themself, not by limiting themselves.
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Nath,
Im talking of the meeting where you also came back after going down.
In the second time I got you smoking, likely fuel leak.. and I thought to let you go but you didnt and had you in my six for short while.
remember?
First meeting I shot the wing..
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Fishu ]
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lol.. *cough cough.. tought him eveything he knows.. cough cough** =) wtg Fecies.
=Twin Engined Devils= :D
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remember?
nope...
Anyway, best not cite obscure fights that happened 2 or so years ago, cuz half the time I won't remember them and half the time I was prolly in a toejamty plane.
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Nath[BDP] ]
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Its the latest fights we've had though :)
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Umm, dun remember anything 'lately', only known of you online 1.5+ yrs ago.
ps, are you flying as 'fish' now?
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well, the latest fight indeed was a long time ago ;)
I don't play anymore, haven't played for a long time.
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Wow.. missed this thread till now... guess I thought it was just going to be a back slapping daisy chain.. I was wrong and am glad of it.
I agree with nath and leviathn. the best pilots are the ones who earn respect by fighting. I would say that both drex and leviathn actually consider putting themselves at a disadvantage..... no disadvantage. I put myself at a disadvantage to get a fight going or to drag but am in no way near as good as some at getting myself out of those situations.
The best overall pilot in AH or any sim I've been in is still drex tho. I just don't see any way to argue that streaks or no streaks.
lazs
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My streaks is longer than Drex's though Lazs....
Problem is, I can't get the damn things out no matter how much bleach I use!
-SW
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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That Drex guy sux.
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Originally posted by Drex:
That Drex guy sux.
You've got that right!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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leviathn would own drex 1v1 cuz he sux bad
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You hurt my feelings, Nath. Take it back.
Drex
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You know, one of these days newbs that don't get this joke may really start to disrespect poor Drex (due the the herd mentality and need to fit in). What a shock awaits the poor soul that challenges poor ol' Drex to a duel! :D
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Originally posted by Kieran:
You know, one of these days newbs that don't get this joke may really start to disrespect poor Drex (due the the herd mentality and need to fit in). What a shock awaits the poor soul that challenges poor ol' Drex to a duel! :D
Hell, I'll duel anybody who will tell me exactly what I did that enabled them to rip my bellybutton off and hand it, bleeding and raw, back to me.