Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on January 07, 2003, 02:31:33 AM
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AH rocks.
WW2OL sucks.
BUT... there are some good ideas over there. At the top of the list I'd like to see is an attrition model.
I think attrition is key to a strategy system, and would go towards stopping the countless kamekazi lemming attacks we are now seeing.
HT, Pyro, any breadcrumbs you can throw us on this one?
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Might work for the Mission Arena, not the MA. One of the things that I thought sucked about ww2ol was not finding the plane I wanted without going to several airfields first. Time better spent in the air IMO.
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I get sick of trying to take a decent tank in WW2OL, only to find there are none left.... sucks to see squaddies disappearing into the distance in theirs while I'm left in something really slow with a very limited view.... or running behind as an SMG to try and jump on.... nope, keep things the way they are in AH please. :)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I think attrition is key to a strategy system, and would go towards stopping the countless kamekazi lemming attacks we are now seeing.
As mentioned elswhere there now is a tool that HTC could immediately implement in the MA........
It sets the number of lives any player can use over a set period of time.....
if set to 4 lives over 60 minutes then once a life is lost then the player does not get it back for another 60 minutes.
The player (in this case) then has 3 more lives but if the last life is lost before the first is returned then the player is forced to wait out until the first life is returned.
I do not know if "joining" is included.
I am unsure of the effect of lost drones.
Getting the balance of lives and time would be critical for the MA also it should be (like the AoA thingy) cancelled for new account holders.
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Originally posted by Tilt
As mentioned elswhere there now is a tool that HTC could immediately implement in the MA........
It sets the number of lives any player can use over a set period of time.....
if set to 4 lives over 60 minutes then once a life is lost then the player does not get it back for another 60 minutes.
The player (in this case) then has 3 more lives but if the last life is lost before the first is returned then the player is forced to wait out until the first life is returned.
I do not know if "joining" is included.
I am unsure of the effect of lost drones.
Getting the balance of lives and time would be critical for the MA also it should be (like the AoA thingy) cancelled for new account holders.
youre saying new account holders should have unlimited lives while those of us who PAY to play get a limit???
screw that.
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Originally posted by hazed-
youre saying new account holders should have unlimited lives while those of us who PAY to play get a limit???
screw that.
Well I'm suggesting they get two weeks to learn how live longer than "x" minutes.
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making a "missun" center and rewarding people for play the "strat" game has about ruined the game as it is... nothing but timid score potatos and gangbangers left. It is considered bold to attack with only 5 v1 odds now...
lazs
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Nah.......leave the MA like it is. Build all the complex elements of a mature high quality adult game into the mission theater. Leave the MA for the kids, sort of like day care. Sorry fellas but hearing little brians prepubescent squawks on vox really takes the adventure out of it :eek:
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The second this is implimented im gone, as are a toejamload of other people. I dont care how many times I die, or how many times someone else does. If I want to piss away 10 lives in 10 mins upping from a capped base then thats my buisness.
Stop trying to dictate how other people fly in the ma, thats what the SEA, and the numerous special events are for.
Originally posted by Tilt
As mentioned elswhere there now is a tool that HTC could immediately implement in the MA........
It sets the number of lives any player can use over a set period of time.....
if set to 4 lives over 60 minutes then once a life is lost then the player does not get it back for another 60 minutes.
The player (in this case) then has 3 more lives but if the last life is lost before the first is returned then the player is forced to wait out until the first life is returned.
I do not know if "joining" is included.
I am unsure of the effect of lost drones.
Getting the balance of lives and time would be critical for the MA also it should be (like the AoA thingy) cancelled for new account holders.
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the 'attrition thing' was the final straw in wwiiol for me.
flying was impossible unless you had a 'deep blue' on your desktop and playing 'quake' (infantry) wasn't my idea of fun. so i became a tanker for a little fun and be able to hang with my squadies after they were orphaned from AW.
when they limited the number of tanks, i said bye-bye to the game and good friends. flying WWII combat a/c is what i'm online for, anyway.
they've got a very regimented world going on over there. that's not my idea of fun.
for all it's faults, AH is the best thing going on the 'net.
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Yet another argument for the "Missun" arena.
We'll see if HTC can make it work.
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Originally posted by KG45
they've got a very regimented world going on over there. that's not my idea of fun.
Also a prime failing of Warbirds for me.
People should be able to fly what they want on any given day, variety is quite important. This hitech, etal have addressed in a very novel way with the perk concept.
Attrition has the problem of being easily abused by players minded to do so. New players could also be "turned off" by such a system. You already hear on radio, "Why can't I fly any airplanes" when they are sitting in a vehicle base.
Best to keep it simple, there are other ways to handle this.
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"""The second this is implimented im gone, as are a toejamload of other people. I dont care how many times I die, or how many times someone else does. If I want to piss away 10 lives in 10 mins upping from a capped base then thats my buisness.""""
dont let the door hit your...
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Wasn't an earlier squeak the one about having nothing but char vs pz4s frag fests? Attrition seems to work nicely and giving rise to interesting battles. Gent being one. You want better access, you must take a mission. Use up the stuff and it disappears for a time. Finding a plane is much easier than finding a ground unit. You can fly from England where there is usually a fine supply of pristine spits etc. Flying doesnt require a Big Blue, Datter seems to fly well on a p800, but he did listen to us about tweaking the settings etc. Attrition is always being fine tuned but is here to stay.
HC
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I fought my bellybutton off just to get corporal so I could fly the dewontine. Now I find that like the hawk more!~
What tweaks? When is hitech going to sell his vox to the ww2ol people? When are they gonna merge and let hitech do the flight side of ww2ol?
oh the dreams....
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Originally posted by AKWeav
Might work for the Mission Arena, not the MA. One of the things that I thought sucked about ww2ol was not finding the plane I wanted without going to several airfields first. Time better spent in the air IMO.
Funny, my suggesting this was because of the exact same thing in AH the last few nights I've logged on. I wanted to fly a tiffie, but 25%-50% of fuel doesn't get you far in a tiffie.
I'm not suggesting a system exactly like WW2OL's, but you can see how a system like it helps. Perhaps a system on a more personal scale. Theres a lot of different ways of approaching it.
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Getting away from standard airfield layouts would help - but I think that is not possible for some reson.
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Yeah attrition would be nice in the CT but not in the fantasy arena .
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Attrition has no value in the CT, since most people dont go in there to capture bases. They go in there to see what fighting planes other than niks and la7s is like.
Knowing that your opponent is going to be in a small selection of other aircraft than your own really lets you play to a planes strengths. Rather than just hoping to grab enough alt to jump an la7.
In the fantasy arena, where base capture is the end all point, attrition would be useful. ANd just to hear lasz whine would be enough for me.
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I know, I know, people would rather complain about how unrealistic the MA is rather than fly in the CT . It's allways been that way .
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One tweak..some older soundcards state they can do 64 or more voices but they must use CPU cycles to produce more than 32.
High FPS Tweaks..some
Select High Performancee
with nvidia card they are optimized for 1024x768x32 resolution
use no higher or if needed drop to 800/600
NoLockToRefresh checked
Sound Driver to your soundcard not generic d3d
3d and or 2d depending which is best
slider to midlevel
voices to 16
All LOD boxes checked
No Shawdows
bullets to 16
Only box checked in textures is reduce textures
Toggle the f4 key when online to reduce the view distance
Try those
HC
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cc thanks.
I get about 36 fps when nobody is around in a hawk. Pretty lame for the system I own. Drops noticably when it gets busy.
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Really? I left the CT in disgust the other day.
Hordes of Ki67's coming in at 200 feet kamikazi bombing. Niki's HOing all over. It was like the worst elements of the MA all bundled up together in Xmas wrapping.
Originally posted by Suave
I know, I know, people would rather complain about how unrealistic the MA is rather than fly in the CT . It's allways been that way .
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Yes really, it's happening right now .
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I hope you saw nikis all over, its a late war russia invades japan scenario. If you saw hordes of spit 9s and p51s then I would get worried.
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You misspelled n1k2
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The CT is simply a country roads down home rural thing compared to the MA inner city ghetto gang feeling. That is all as far as the little community vrs the big community goes. You know all the rest Im sure.
And Vulcan. The CT seemed like the MA (disgusting) because fifty of the MA ghetto heads dropped into the CT due UnUsual laggy BS in the MA and polluted the CT up something fierce with the run of the mill MA crap. It did suck, it was disgusting and as soon as these people got bored and left, the CT was once again a challenging and intriguing place to play.
It really was a stark contrast made over the course of about ten minutes. Really lousy, hope the MA server gets straightened out and quick. At least as long as the CT setup is interesting, thats where I play. Good people, mostly. Challenging fights, mostly.
MA is the opposite, unless its very late or very early, when there are less than 150 people. Only then does the MA revert to anything halfway worth the time to play imo
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High FPS Tweaks..some
Select High Performancee
with nvidia card they are optimized for 1024x768x32 resolution
use no higher or if needed drop to 800/600
NoLockToRefresh checked
Sound Driver to your soundcard not generic d3d
3d and or 2d depending which is best
slider to midlevel
voices to 16
All LOD boxes checked
No Shawdows
bullets to 16
Only box checked in textures is reduce textures
Toggle the f4 key when online to reduce the view distance
No offense, Hardcase, because I know you mean well....but here's my high fps tweaks for AH:
1. Double click "Fly Aces High" shortcut on desktop.
:D
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What I think is becoming evident is that AH is screaming out for a mission theatre with things like attrition, mission channel (from blckmgk's idea), even aircraft sitting on the apron.
Now wouldn't that be cool, instead of spawning being put in the cockpit of say 1 of 20 hurricanes and having to taxi out. Then they could turn friendly collisions on.
Or rolling a 190 JABO in on an RAF base and strafing the aircraft in the disperal areas.
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Yeager hits the nail on the head.
Maybe we dont 'want' 599 people all playing at the same time. That could fix many of these problems. Sad thing is, the only way you can get that, is by making an arena that only 50 or so people enjoy!!!!
IF you put a cap on the CT at say 60, then it would become 'special' and I would never be able to get in again.
Maybe it is time for a pac theatre, hint hint nudge nudge.....
Oh wait, we still dont have the pacific plane selection that air warrior had in 1996. Guess we better forget that.....
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oh vulcan, even talking about that pisses me off. That is something that is sooooooooooooo cool, that no current game has, that would make this better than anything else out there.....
and dammit you know it wont happen.
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I can get 150 fps on tribes. I suspect AH is less CPU intensive than ww2ol..No Offense:D
HC
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tribes? I am pegged to refresh in ah. Why? Cause it is a quality production. Even on an old tnt ultra 32mb I was pegged to 120 refresh, now I have a lcd and a much better computer... so being pegged to refresh is irrelevant.
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Of course it is. What else do you expect from better and more effecient programming :D
Originally posted by hardcase
I can get 150 fps on tribes. I suspect AH is less CPU intensive than ww2ol..No Offense:D
HC
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Lots of folks love to compare apples and oranges. If you want to believe your sim is more complex than mine, may it give you comfort. :D
HC
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Fewer people like to play pieces of crap like WW2OL.
bowser
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Originally posted by hardcase
Lots of folks love to compare apples and oranges. If you want to believe your sim is more complex than mine, may it give you comfort. :D
HC
Wait, if AH isn't also your sim then why are you so often starting threads here ? Do you even have an AH account ?
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I didnt start this one.
HC
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I dunno. I think there is a way that "attrition factor" could be used as a balancing tool, used to balance the numbers and spreading the fights out evenly so a "front" can be formed, without restricting players of aircraft choices or numbers all the time. True, no single war/combat simulation game has perfected the balance between gameplay and strategic attrition, but there's no reason why AH cannot be the one, nor that the MA has to stay the way it is.
Of course, "change" always has its opponents, and no variation/innovation can satisfy all players. So I guess the changes that MIGHT occur should be based on an "acceptable range" of gameplay.
.....
Limiting choices, I guess, will never work on MA. However, limiting the numbers on ammunition, ordnance and fuel, in my opinion, can be done in regards to balance.
I won't explain everything what I have in mind, but one thing I have thought about is attrition based on "usage" not "destruction". Enemies won't be able to effect the available numbers of fuel, ordnance, planes and etc.. but it would be effected by usage. More players in more planes would mean more resources required and spent, and when there is just too much people using resources from one base, in that case it would be effected.
One example is the large-scale jabo missions. With the attrition factor based on usage, pulling off a stunt like that won't come free.
Currently, when a mission like that launches, people just dump everything they have at the target, and if they get killed they take up bombs and do it again and again, repeating the process until the field is closed - thus, the display of "raw power" - more pilots, more planes, more bombs to swarm enemy field like locusts.
In what I have in mind, if something like a large-scale jabo mission fails, the amount of bombs, rockets and ammunition and fuel wasted in vain would have to effect the availability of resources one way or another.
With this sort of model, only in the cases where 1) a "combat zone" is too heated up and boggling with planes and pilots, or 2) large amounts of resources are consumed in a single move(large missions), or 3) whencountry numbers are too radically ubalanced will it be effected by attrition - thus, encouraging numbers balance, spreading out the fights, and careful mission planning and execution. On the other hand it would discourage drastic imbalance, too large a furball in one single area, and "go and dump bombs, up again and do it again 'till they're all dead" criteria of missions.
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Originally posted by hardcase
I didnt start this one.
HC
Everyone knows that. So you don't have an AH account ?
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Attrition in ww2 has caused ppl to care more about the stuff they drive, to break off sooner and try to get a damaged vehicle home. It has changed the strategy needed to take a town. We can pull vehicles(veh included inf) from surronding towns and despawn them at a contested town and they become part of the that towns attrition list and can be used from there. We fly spits in from the mainland to nearby air bases. Defending a town makes you aware they soon there will be no soldiers to fight with and that we must come to its aid or sometime we will lose it from neglect. Adding attrition increases the immersion and cause us to think a tad more about what we are doing. If HT can do that I think a majority of players will find it fun and interesting.
HC
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Everyone knows that.
HC
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LOL! Hardcase, that is a quotable sig! :D
I only see 2 things that WW2OL has that AH would benefit from.
The Icon system and
the head-bobbing in-flight that gives the feel of flight.
And dats it
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Heh;)
There is going to be a new patch this week to cure the panhard gunner problem and fire not spreading correctly along the wings from gas tank fires among a few others. I got popped in beta in a 110..perddy flames,descending, rolling..oh no...rolling..diving...wing breaks off and sprialling down I go, to a dirt nap :D
HC
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I just wish we could all get along.
no offense to my main game aces high, but if ww2ol could get the game to run a little more smoothly and develop a more useful flight model (currently eternal loops = dogfight), and a view system that doesnt resemble a guy in traction with bad vision, I would drop my htc account. BUTTTTTTTT as it is, htc takes the cake as far as aircombat fun.
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and dammit you know it wont happen.
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Perhaps, but look at it another way: HTC DID NOT have to create a Combat Theater. You can bet there were some strong discussions pro and con against the CT so be thankfull.
It has filled a gap for more than just a few players who would have bailed due to tenuous boredom with what is known as the Main Arena.
The upcoming Mission Theater is further proof that HTC wants to cater to more than just the average phurball gamer. In fact, if you believe them, they want to rasie the bar of online gaming to a whole new level. Im pleased with this as it could not happen too soon.
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It has smoothed out but if you mean the spiking fps when you enter a town or see a bunch of stuff, then it still requires at least 256 megs to run and 512 is recommended and more is the greatest. XP running on 256 is a grind, the OS uses more than 100 megs just to load. It likes free ram to avoid the harddrive and hitting the HD causes those 'spikes'.
HC
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alt-ctrl-del
Damn its not working!
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Thank Hardcase posted in this thread. I was afraid that we weren't going to get an objective, non-fanboy, look at WW2OL.
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Thats what I thought hardcase (and I agree with everything you said yeager), but if you look at my sig, you will see I run a pretty tight ship. In fact tomorrow I am getting some of that 400mhz ram to go with my 533c motherboard. Its not just ram, its bad code. No disrespect to the rats but they just bit off more than they could chew, and they are still trying to fit it in there mouth. I run on a really good dsl, with a hot bellybutton computer, with enough guts to run any well written game at over 100 fps. Dar be somn rtn in belgium. They need to clean that toejam up.
When I see the 'maneuvers' that the lw use when fighting my little french planes it explains even more.
strat 1. I have no idea where he is, I will now start to do scissors.
strat 2. I have no idea where he is, I will now do a vertical loop.
strat 3. I see him so I will follow whatever he does.
Never has a german plane done a boom and zoom on me. Never have I seen a split s. Never have I seen a barrel roll. Why? Cause we are all running at about 20 fps, with planes bopping in and out of existance. This isnt because we all need better computers. This is because there code has holes in it.
Sad thing is that the flight model is so porked the 109 handles better than the hawk, the hurricane, the spitfire, and the 520 (which it should). Even the 110 can keep its own with the hawk in a turn fight. Almost.
In reality if any german plane got in a turn fight with a hawk it would be dead without a wingman. Period.
That is the case in this game (against the hurricane) and that is not the case in their game. It was also not he case in reality. When germans got slow against planes that performed well when slow, they were toast. Just look at the polish airforce.
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I'm looking for the fan in any of these post.
I run an xp2100, 1 gig pc2700 ram and a geforce 4 4600. My fps are more than 20. More like 40 in furball and 70+ alone. Since no one ever bothers to post their resolution or settings FPS post are meaningless. You have a fast rig, but why you would not run faster than me is we usually find someone post " I run at 1600x1200 and I only get 20 fps online".
The real problem is when someone tells me he cant fly on his 2.6 gig intel, I know something is wrong because of the way it runs on mine.
Why do you think your rig shoudl run 100fps on any game out there? Did you just make that up? Since you are getting fewer fps than I do on my slower rig, what should I think. Buggy code...naaa
Are their bugs..sure...do they keep me from having excellent FPS..no.
So, believe what you will.
BTW a Geforce 3 on that machine is bottlenecking you.
HC
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I can just see all you guys gathering around telling each other how bad ww2:D
HC
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I spent 3 years in AH and now exclusively play WW2OL with some diversions to WB. Here's my take. Best immersion level for someone who wants to fantasize that he's in combat = ww2ol. Best strategy system under these conditions = ww2ol Best flight model = not AH, not ww2ol, not WB or any other "game" This being said, best "impression" of what flight looks like = ww2ol The bottom line is that I'm looking for an illusion of combat and ww2ol provides the best for me. Here's the best example I can give you, the icon/view system. The real world of flight is not CAVU (Ceiling and Visibility Unlimited) like AH or WB. Airplanes are not clearly defined in front of your eyeballs 100% of the time. They disappear, you lose them in the background due to comouglage etc. In ww2ol it's possible to fly a sortee, get involved in a heated dogfight and actually slip away. Try that in AH or WB. Now to someone who's looking for 10 kills every sortee this would suck but if you're like me and like the historical feel then and only then would you feel comfortable in ww2ol. Those who want quick kills stay in AH or WB.
Beeg
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I finally cancelled my WW2 account a couple weeks ago.
I'm tired of waiting for the wonderful world we were promised almost 2 years ago.
Today, 1.5 years after finally shipping a product that immediately required a 70MB Download 'patch' before you could see your first enemy, the denizens of that world are still playing in the same theatre. The times that I have attempted to play have resulted in only being able to be a soldier or fly a Hawk. No fancy rides or armor due to the attrition system.
What little potential enjoyment I had in the game was ruined by purists.
Where are the pretty B17s they tantalized us with the beautiful screenshots? Where are the other areas of combat? I expected to see the pacific ( AVG? ) by now. With as long as they've spent, calendar wise, on the battle of France, I don't think we'll see the Mighty 8th in full swing until 2012. ( Assuming they're even PLANNING to live up to their promises )
Sorry.. I'm not giving them $13/month until then.
For an infantry based immersion level game.. heck yeah, WW2OL is awesome. When it first came out, I could spend, literally, hours running around the countryside taking in the graphics, hearing the battles in the distance.. feeling my heart tighten as I heard armor closing in.. Taking out an 88 and punching holes in chars.. yes.. life was good.
After the newness wore off, however, I returned to my true love. Aircraft.. B17s.. Divebombers.. P38s. You give me that, I'll pay to play. You don't .. I won't.
The problem I saw with WW2OL is that the purists are trying to recreate what happened.
Sorry, but we know too much about what happened, the capabilities of the weaponry, and we've gained so much virtual experience that we cannot hope to come close. You cannot model the training, morale, and element of surprise that was so vital to the success of the German campaign.
It could've been a contender.. now it's relegated to a special interest sect.
I will be surprised if it lasts another year.
<.S>
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No beeg you are right, but computers are not eyes. Luckily hitech is a pilot who has actually flown ww2 fighters. One of the great impressions that he had was that you could not 'create' peripheral vision on a monitor, so any limitation of view was actually handicapping the player beyond what pilots actually had. My metaphor of the invalid is a very valid one (two pilots in the fam too, and they agree, one of which taught fighter pilots in ww2).
On to the guy that gets good fps. MY ASS! I am running the game on an lcd monitor, the fact that you say "more than 20" tips me way the hell off. I bet you are pulling in about 10 to 15 in a dog fight. I have experimented with 4 machines in ww2online, an amd800 with 512 megs of ram - 20 fps; a pentium 3 8something 25; an amd1800 with 512 megs of ram 28 fps; a pentium 2.8 with 512 megs of ram at 36 fps. Every, not just some or a few, or just tetris, every other game is pegged to the refresh. Even that pos il2 is pegged to refresh.
In fact, your the first guy I have heard to say he has gotten more than 40 fps in ww2ol. I have a hard time believing it was your vid card. I get 72 (refresh on my lcd) fps when I am sitting in the mission/vehicle selection screen. I guess that could be what you are referring to.
If in fact you do get these insane fps when you are flying in ww20L I would love to know what kind of system you have, down to the real specs.
erg
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Originally posted by maxtor
Also a prime failing of Warbirds for me.
People should be able to fly what they want on any given day, variety is quite important. This hitech, etal have addressed in a very novel way with the perk concept.
But with the current system, you can't fly what you want when you want in the MA. Want to fly a 262? Better put in the hours, 'cause it's going to take you awhile to amass the points required.
Tilt has a good idea. Maybe it's not a good fit for the MA, but it's a good idea nonetheless.
Me... I'd like to tone it down a bit... rather than make it impossible to fly after exceeding the death limit, it would be nice if you could at least get airborne on one of the early war rides.
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As expected CRS diddlyed up the D520.
This software is a joke
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Originally posted by straffo
As expected CRS diddlyed up the D520.
This software is a joke
AMusing :) So how that makes D.520 diddlyed? So far it seems to performs exactly like its real life counterpart.
That 110 in fire is a known bug and on the repair list.
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Do you read french ?
If so I can send you a 40 page official document about the performances of the D520 ...
Next you'll just have to compare with the WWIIol one ...
You can see another document here : http://www.pangea-systems.com/wwiiws/aircraft/D.520/DvsBf/
btw I don't think the D520 is really porked compared to her real life conter-part but I do think that the 109 and the Stuka have enormous FM problem.
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I'll take some screen shots for you. My FPS are in game.
BTW without Settings info FPS post are a waste of time. I have no way to tell what resolution etc you are running. You running NOLocktorefresh unchecked?
HC
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Ode, we actually discuss AH very little, if at all:D
HC
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Originally posted by hardcase
Ode, we actually discuss AH very little, if at all:D
HC
Can non-subscriber post in CRS forum ?
like you are doing here ?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
But with the current system, you can't fly what you want when you want in the MA. Want to fly a 262? Better put in the hours, 'cause it's going to take you awhile too amass the points required.
You can fly a whole heck of a lot of planes whenever you want in MA. Perk planes are perked precisely so as to limit their use, otherwise you would log into a sky full of 262's everyday. System is working as designed.
If HTC would extend the obj/eny system to scoring, you would see a great deal more diversity. As it is right now, a kill is a kill, and it is not smart (from a scoring perspective) to fly anything but the "best" planes.
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Originally posted by hardcase
Ode, we actually discuss AH very little, if at all:D
HC
Why are you here?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
'cause it's going to take you awhile to amass the points required.
Actually it doesn't take very long at all. The easiest and fastest way is to JABO and strafe a strat with a fighter (110 G2 recommended), you can bring back 10 or so fighter perks a sortie in this way.
(Be sure you are in attack mode, you may as well have your work score correctly too.)
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HC I use an LCD as mentioned above. Refresh is meaningless. It is set to 72, and that is where I am pegged in other games.
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Originally posted by maxtor
You can fly a whole heck of a lot of planes whenever you want in MA. Perk planes are perked precisely so as to limit their use, otherwise you would log into a sky full of 262's everyday. System is working as designed.
If HTC would extend the obj/eny system to scoring, you would see a great deal more diversity. As it is right now, a kill is a kill, and it is not smart (from a scoring perspective) to fly anything but the "best" planes.
No argument with this statement, but your previous statement still isn't true. You can't fly anything you want. No matter how you sugar coat it, that is the fact.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
No argument with this statement, but your previous statement still isn't true. You can't fly anything you want. No matter how you sugar coat it, that is the fact.
Perhaps, but the subject was attrition. Beside I *can* fly anything I want :)
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Are you pegged because you do set your vidcard to vsyncing on? I got 120+fps looking up last night and my monitor is set for 85hz refresh. I do run vsyncing off on my geforce. Settings do matter.
No, non members cannot post to ww2ol forums. The first 6 months of vitriolic ranting and spamming of the Chat Forum caused that. Quite a few ppl here play both sims and they could post anything, anytime about AH that they wish. You find my post offensive?
Max, suffice that I am here.
HC
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I will have to look into that.
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erg... fyi, there are a couple of proggies that allow you to overclock nvidia cards. One is called Coobits and is a small registry program that unlocks the OC capacity of their cards. I dont know where it is offhand but a Google search should show up numerous sites.
HC
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Thanks for the little program Oedepus . After dismantling the code I found out that it was a very simple program, and after final condensing and taking out the unneccesary parts of it i found this..." WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA":D .
RafBader
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HC please sit down. I spent two weeks hard out playing WW2OL. I made it to a captain without cheating.
I've seen all the bugs, inadequacies, read the real feelings of players on their BBS. My XP2100+ system with a GF3 and 512Mb of DD SDRAM chokes on the game from time to time.
There are some wonderful ideas there, but the implementation sucks.
Now go sell your snakeoil somewhere else.
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New patch just out fixing the flame bugs and panhard bugs plus a couple of others.
HC the Snake
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"In fact, your the first guy I have heard to say he has gotten more than 40 fps in ww2ol"
You can ad me to the list. While I can get frame rates on WWII Online anywhere from 300+fps at the map board down to 40 to 70 on a heavy dogfight, the very lowest I get now is an occasional blip to 25 in a heavy dogfight, over a large town, down on the deck, with numerous ground troops. It quickly rises back up in the 50 -60 as soon as I get off the deck near the ground objects, and remains in the 90 to 120 range the rest of the time.
P4, 2.8ghz, 1 gig rdram, radeon 9700 with 128mg
WwII Online has much more in the way of scenery and details to process on your machine. The one most important thing you can do for frame rates in WwII Online is invest in a lot of ram. Prior to adding another 512mgs of ram even this high speed computer had blips down on the deck in heavy fights.
You can't compare the two sims with that respect. One has very basic ground scenery, basic airfields, and very basic towns. The other has intense scenery, camouflage, cities, bridges, roads, and numerous ground players factoring into the equation. One is devoted to dogfighting and furballs, the other is providing a mission oriented combined air and land war.
Some enjoy one over the other, and this can be noted by visiting the various bbs systems.
Ranger Bob
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How about when you spawn? Hows your framerate then.
Or compare it with the OFP engine. Intense scenery, camouflage, cities, bridges, roads, WEATHER effects, smoother ground. 3D playable forests. Then OFP also has to manage the AI (ie more workload than the ww2ol engine). Yet it still manages to do a way better job.
Originally posted by RangerBob
You can't compare the two sims with that respect. One has very basic ground scenery, basic airfields, and very basic towns. The other has intense scenery, camouflage, cities, bridges, roads, and numerous ground players factoring into the equation. One is devoted to dogfighting and furballs, the other is providing a mission oriented combined air and land war.
Some enjoy one over the other, and this can be noted by visiting the various bbs systems.
Ranger Bob
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Vulcan where do you get these ideas? I think ww2ol is a tad more complex than any standalone, 32 player game.
BTW he told you he gets 40-70 is heavy dogfights.
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Straffo;
Thanks for the linked document very interesting in the original French and the translation. As an inactive commercial pilot, I read a couple of interesting things e.g. it mentions the effects on maneuverability brought on by the leading edge slats of the ME109 (these are visually modelled in ww2ol but not in either AH or WB) and also mentions the effect of climbing with cowl flaps open (not modeled in any sim I know of).
My bottom line is that all of these are games. There isn't one full blown actual flight simulator in the lot. It's actually kind of embarrassing to me to even use the word flying when referring to what I do in either AH, WW2OL or WB. Best you can hope for is for a program to create the illusion of flight and as I've said previously, ww2ol does the best job of that through intense graphics which are burned into your brain allowing you to be satisfied with a much lower frame rate that you'll see anywhere else, an icon system second to none and just an overall ambience which is much truer to life than the CAVU world of other games (except MSFS when you crank in bad weather but that's another genre altogether).
Beeg
P.S. Where the hell are all you AH warriors at in ww2ol. Look me up on the Axis side Beeg01
Originally posted by straffo
Do you read french ?
If so I can send you a 40 page official document about the performances of the D520 ...
Next you'll just have to compare with the WWIIol one ...
You can see another document here : http://www.pangea-systems.com/wwiiws/aircraft/D.520/DvsBf/
btw I don't think the D520 is really porked compared to her real life conter-part but I do think that the 109 and the Stuka have enormous FM problem.
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Fired up ww2ol tonight- took a spit to lokeren East of Gent (well it began with L anyway). Saw a lone ju87 dived on him gave him a little burst that set him on fire, he went into a scissors i gave him another burst, he rolled onto his back and dived into the ground. I spot a damaged 110 (leaking white stuff from his right engine) slowly creeping up on him I blast the crap outta him at point blank range, 2 fires break out and he goes into a dive and crashes. After that kill i decided to grab some alt but got bounced by a 109, after a min or so i manage to get on his 6. Several shots at him later (i couldn't hit the SOB) i plaster his canopy and he goes into a gentle turning dive and crashes. On my way home there was a 109 buzzing our airfield, i got a lovely shot at his belly and he promptly went up in flames and crashed.
On landing i see this-
Plane damaged kills
109 2 0
110 1 0
ju87 1 0
I'm so pissed off!:mad: It's like trying to win the lottery getting kills awarded to you in that damn game. Do CRS actually have a system for awarding kills, Hardcase? Please tell me how it works because i haven't got a sodding clue.
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I suspect it may the be the CRS "Advanced Bull toejam Kill Claims Negating System" which simulates the real life kill statistics systems used in WW2. It was necessary to confirm your kills through independent observers who verified what you said. Since you were flying alone without a wingman in total contradiction to what even the dumbest fighter pilot in the most backward airforce in the world knows, you fell victim to the "if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around, does it make a sound" syndrome. :D
Seriously though, It pisses me off too and I've absolutely never had a streak like you describe in over 4 months. Maybe in spite of what it looked like to you, somebody else already put some lead in their ass? The thing that sucks the most is that you don't get "any" rank earning credit for damaging aircraft. Only kills will give you a mission success. The upside though is that this more closely replicates the real world hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror world of the ww2 aviator.
Beeg
P.S. They do have a system. I know cause I started as a private and I am now a Hauptmann in the LH. Progress is slow and deliberate and for those willing to be patient rewarding. One big drawback I find is that other than having advanced mission posting capabilities rank doesn't show to other players. Considering what I learned that it's hard to come by, I would be more willing to follow someone of higher rank because in ww2ol it's truly a badge of experience.
Originally posted by thrila
Fired up ww2ol tonight- took a spit to lokeren East of Gent (well it began with L anyway). Saw a lone ju87 dived on him gave him a little burst that set him on fire, he went into a scissors i gave him another burst, he rolled onto his back and dived into the ground. I spot a damaged 110 (leaking white stuff from his right engine) slowly creeping up on him I blast the crap outta him at point blank range, 2 fires break out and he goes into a dive and crashes. After that kill i decided to grab some alt but got bounced by a 109, after a min or so i manage to get on his 6. Several shots at him later (i couldn't hit the SOB) i plaster his canopy and he goes into a gentle turning dive and crashes. On my way home there was a 109 buzzing our airfield, i got a lovely shot at his belly and he promptly went up in flames and crashed.
On landing i see this-
Plane damaged kills
109 2 0
110 1 0
ju87 1 0
I'm so pissed off!:mad: It's like trying to win the lottery getting kills awarded to you in that damn game. Do CRS actually have a system for awarding kills, Hardcase? Please tell me how it works because i haven't got a sodding clue.
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Damnit Thrila that ju87 was ME! :D By the way if it was I was already drilled by some ground fire over the FB. Beeg you would be better off killwise if you did'nt unload your entire arsenal from halfcourt. :rolleyes: And also fighterace has cowl flaps that are automatic with throttle movement. But does'nt help gameplay one bit in there.
RafBader
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Yep,
Nixed the problem with the flying torches and got that patch out today...
Working on some RPG stuff now with in-game rank and mission leader identifiers, medals, who and what killed you mission debriefing, etc...
Dont worry, Doc and I pester them regularly about finishing the FM, the missing damage components, and the object biasing on a regular basis... I dont like waiting for it either, but hopefully not too much longer...
As it is, like some of the others above, I too miss my Corsair and P-38 while flying WWIIOL, but for me as well, the immersion and actually having an effect on the ground war (heck, even having a live ground war to effect) more than makes up for it in my case. But as always, to each their own..:)
We hired kfsone a couple weeks ago and dragged him here to Dallas from jolly old England... He is really helping to shorten the dev time needed for host interaction stuff already. Its been a hell of a job for one man.
Its a long list, but as always, we will keep on keepin on...
BTW, 1200 participants in our first event last month. And that was after losing a bunch of folks while we got the server ironed out in the first hour... Running it again Feb 1 with some more planning time for the Allied and Axis teams, and a practice sometime the week before... Registration opened today.
Good to see some of the old timer names here. Starting to see more and more of them over in our neck of the woods too.
Anyway, All due respect when I say this...
Hope to someday get a chance to turn each and every one of you into a smoking lawndart just like in the old AW and WB days..;D
Check Six!
Hatch
P.S. I hope you all had a great holiday season and hope you have a great 2003 as well.
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Seems strange that a dev from a direct competitor of AH posts on these boards, but doesn't allow non-subscriber posting on his own. Am I the only one who sees an inconsistency there?
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Hmmm...
Hatch said…( and Im guessing you work for wwiiol, never heard of you here)
BTW, 1200 participants in our first event last month. And that was after losing a bunch of folks while we got the server ironed out in the first hour... Running it again Feb 1 with some more planning time for the Allied and Axis teams, and a practice sometime the week before... Registration opened today.
Followed by ..
I hope you all had a great holiday season and hope you have a great 2003 as well
Interesting Hatch.
Facetious is one thing, but posting that commercial in the veil of a viable post for the AH BBS community audience is a clearly shameless promotion of wwiiol and it’s latest patch. Fine if it’s the case, just explain the patch and say so. Why post like your talking down to a bunch of fools?
To make a stab and then ‘wish a great holiday season’ this late, like it adds anything to the AH conversation, is pitiful. If not embarrassing.
And what prompted this ridiculous dig- “ Good to see some of the old timer names here. Starting to see more and more of them over in our neck of the woods too.
Tardcase is a free tech support WWIIOL minion as I see it here which is welcome. He is well informmed, and certainly dedicated considering the small crowd that cares, but his intent is good for your game.
Why did you Hatch show up as completely useless and embarrassing poster for the rats? Or is the rats run by tools like you, easily fingered by the even the least savvy players that read into your piss poor transparent bbs posts?
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I would guess HTC is pretty secure about their product, and probably isn't bothered.
But I think we should start advertising AH scenarios on the WW2OL BBS, anyway.
Oh, yeah, wait a minute we can't.
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Whatever...
I was flying alongside Hitech, Killer, Gunjam, Pyro, Caligula, etc long before there was a Warbirds, Aces High, or a WWIIOL. Many people have our roots in other sims and friends that fly any of the above or more than one. Just because I work on one game doesnt mean its the only one I play, read, or care about.
That was the spirit in which I posted.
It was simply to let others know that some of the issues regarding a game "I" happen to have info about, previously mentioned in this OFF-TOPIC thread, had been addressed or were being worked on...
Simple as that. No conspiracies, no black helicopters...
If HT, Pyro, or anybody else wants me to never post here again... lol!, no sweat, I am sure they will tell me and I will be happy to abide by their wishes. Hehe check my register date, I have been a member here for years, and I have only 3 posts, some forum abuse huh?!?!.
Just to set the record straight, nobody cares "who" talks about "whatever" sim over on the WWIOL forums, you just have to have a subscription to do so.
Hell, if they dont have em already, I'll be more than happy to set up WWIIOL accounts for the old WB guys: HT, Pyro, Natedog, Monkey, etc so they can do with them or say whatever they want.
Whats to be afraid of?
Man, JMHO, but it seems that some of you folks have a serious complex or something. Laxatives anyone?
I have had a WB account that I have kept open since '99 that I am cancelling. I was thinking of opening one here after doing so to get some late war ride fun in now and again. Not to mention how fun it will be to repeatedly spank these the guys copping the attitudes over and over again. More entertaining than the laughs they give me slamming anyone and anything they can in these forums.
Cya on the flip side...
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These posts are simply the bbs equivalent of telemarketing.
"Hello."
"Hello, sir, this Sharonda from MCI, how are you doing today?"
"Not the least bit interested."
*click*
Oh, except that telemarketers get paid for such a crappy job;>
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Now Hatch...
A. Not really a matter of whether anyone posts about AH over there or not... it's a matter of who can. You have a bully pulpit over there, and you know it.
B. Even then it's not a matter of who can post about AH over there as what possible motivation would one have for doing so to the extent WWIIOL has been extolled here? What has happened here and at AGW has gone far beyond an occasional heads-up. There has been a heavy-handed effort to stifle negative opinions. That much should be obvious.
C. So you can beat up on some virtual aces... so? Does this make you right? That's pretty schoolyard.
As much as I like Il-2 and AH I won't be seen on the WWIIOL boards spamming the forums with the proselytizing we've seen here. It's bad taste and against common sense. I also think it would be pretty stupid to go to your BBS and convince people that AH doesn't suck if they think it does. Watch HC pop a cork over here if someone says "WWIIOL Sux". ;)
I don't know about your history with HT and Pyro beyond what has been posted on various BBSs during the years, so I won't pretend to know how you all get along. I do know I have not seen Pyro and HT posting on your BBS, and I think that is professional and good judgement. YMMV.
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but hatch... didn't you guys hire that fat little aussie, no nothing drunk? How smart can you be? How realistic can a sim be with him in it?
lazs
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Ode..everything is bloated when you run a p600:D
HC
Little children trying to be territorial. BTW, there are quite a few ppl here who fly both ww2 and ah and they can post anything anytime, why they don't should be addressed to them. You got a scenario coming up, post it here and I will copy/paste it to our Forums.
that little aussie has written a couple of books on Butcherbirds etc and can probably hand you your hat in any dogfight. He builds the terrain, cities etc for one thing and they are gorgeous.
No one can stifle negative opinions here, not ever mine. Some of those negative opinions come from some lack in the setup or not being able to find ppl and fights online. I point out the things that might help. When someone says "it sucks cause I had to run 30 mins to find a fight and it was over when it got there", then a simple tuning of the radio and some tips on finding fights might make someone have a fun time and change their opinions. Would you have me totally ignore someones misconptions. You don't hear me telling someone that are full of crap, even when they are and I know it. You don't like it..say so...when you give reasons and they are not basic to the program, then I will offer suggestions.
HC
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actually, i dont care for wwiiol, but i found little wrong with hatch's post.
hell, this is the oclub. "Open forum for off-topic and less serious discussions."
some of you guys *do* have some sort of complex.
however i find it amusing that hardcase is chasing ripsnort in terms of messages posted about wwiiol. he's a bigger fanboi then anyone is for AH.
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Those testiomonial?..remember what i said about ppl being full of crap? Just read a post form Sabe with a celeron oc to 533
didn't think I could get that high an FPS with my system even if Killer hooked a tow rope to me and pulled real hard with his system!
Ok, shall I explain all of this to everyone? Or does anyone care how I made that high with a Celeron 500(Mendocino chip)
Well first I will say, that this is a little decieving, as the 43+ FPS is a zoom from gunsight at the ground...
But what honestly surprised me even more is I could look down on a city (Rethel) and get a 19+ FPS
He flew on a oc 500 celery, not well, but he flew and got a kill.
If ppl are willing to say spend a minuete working in Settings and have a computer with up to date drivers, including mobos(installing the 4n1 lastest bumped even my fps up) you can get godd fps with a good machine.
HC
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Fanbois? You don't know the meaning.
I usually post doing tech support, correcting some misconceptions,pointing possibilities to those who wanted to play but didnt have a good time their first time in. You would be surprised how many quiet ppl in AH are trying out ww2ol. As long as I can get their FPS up to the max possible, and help them understand radios and getting to fights, then my work is worth all the little attempts at trying to control this forum from the self appointed folks trying to run it.
Ode, they probably will never show you anthing, most of us have moved on.
Every barb at me is a bump :D
HC
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Well actually no HC. The standalone game has to complete the AI work. Which means it has far more to do and calculate (AI Behaviours, even if much of it is scripted).
The only difference is the networking side of it, in that ww2ol is a client to a big hard coded server. 32 player? In reality ww2ol is only 64 player, this is all the client can handle (same with AH). And you can balance that out by the fact the ww2ol has to do no AI routines for inf tanks etc.
What makes ww2ol different is the big arse server and its software.
So talking FE's, OFP has better graphics, animation, lighting and weather effects, on a similar level with WW2OL, yet does it on far less hardware.
Originally posted by hardcase
Vulcan where do you get these ideas? I think ww2ol is a tad more complex than any standalone, 32 player game.
BTW he told you he gets 40-70 is heavy dogfights.
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Originally posted by Hatch
Dont worry, Doc and I pester them regularly about finishing the FM, the missing damage components, and the object biasing on a regular basis... I dont like waiting for it either, but hopefully not too much longer...
That's great! Do let us know when you finally get ww2ol out of beta! ;)
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It appears they've hit a real nerve here. Stirred up a hornets nest or something.
After numerous posts about wwii online on this board, some quite incorrect, Hatch comes in to post what they are doing, and everyone jumps all over him. I'm sure if Hitech feels offended he will privately let Hatch know, and that will be that.
As for me, well I do enjoy both sims, or games as some would call them, but I have become a bit bored with Aces High for the moment. I've been around Aces High since it's very first beta days, and as a loyal customer I have no plans to leave. Like many others I find it more or less interesting from time to time. I'm hoping for some new update changes that will lure my interests back. The fact that I also enjoy wwii does not make me, or should I say us, enemies of Aces High.
As for my previous post concerning frame rates on wwii, I reported my lowest frame rates, in the most heavily fought air battles, over the largest cities, with numerous ground troops, at the lowest altitude, with the most ground graphics and troops competing for computer time. My typical frame rates in wwii are between80 and 120. I only posted my frame rates as a response to those who believed that it is impossible to obtain good frame rates in wwii online.
Like some of the others who have posted here, I did some adjusting to my computer, prior to obtaining more ram, to achieve good frame rates in that graphic intensive game. I set up a number of boot up choices. In one boot choice called online gaming I turned off a number of services that are just not needed, chose specific parameters to run the game with that met my needs, adjusted my virtual memory, and made other changes to obtain good frame rates with a 750mhz P3 computer. I continued when I upgraded to a new computer. Now that I have 1 gig of ram I really don't need to adjust anything, but I still do.
As noted on these boards, there are some who prefer one type of system over the other. This does not automatically make them enemies of each other. I find it equally disturbing when I notice similar anti Aces High posts over on the wwii boards. Everyone needs to keep more of an open mind. Many of us enjoy both sims.
Just some thoughts,
Ranger Bob
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Let's get something straight...
This was posted originally in the General Discussion area- not a great idea, but it was an AH player that did it. The point of the thread was to surface issues the player felt were worthy of incorporation into AH.
Hatch popped in with what can fairly be described as a thinly-veiled commercial.
Creamo rebuts.
The thread is moved to OT.
A few more (myself included) point out the erroneous nature of Hatch's "whut'd I do?!" post.
HC popped in to say "look at me!" again.
But... if you don't see the problem with the developer of another company's product popping into a general forum thread and advertising, I suppose you couldn't understand the issue. Aside from the fact it was kinda like a streaker running through a Coke commercial wearing a "Drink Pepsi" hat on, it was going to wind up a flame war. Common sense should tell anyone that, especially someone from another company whose stated position is P.R. You'd just have to assume anyone with P.R. experience would have more common sense. I felt Hatch was very disingenuous, but it isn't the first time I've felt that way. This is underscored by the fact CRS doesn't allow people without accounts to post on their boards because... it causes flame wars.
Kinda puts things into a different light, doesn't it?
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We know wwiionline exists, as well as many other better games and sims, and we know where to go to find reviews and information.
It bothers me because he doesn't even play AH, he just stays over on our bb shamelessly promoting wwIIonline like a damn telemarketer. Very bad manners .
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My fault, I really am interested in promoting an attrition system of some sort in AH. Couldn't resist a little prod in ww2ol's direction so the fanbois didn't get a big head over it :)
I personally don't find anything to worrying about Hatch's post, however I do find it amusing he jumped into what was rapidly developing into a flame fest yet failed to reply to a thread like this:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74478 which I think would've been more appopriate.
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When you give me my free two week trial I might give it a try. I was sooo gung ho to run out and buy WW2OL when it came out. But... well, I had been burned a few too many times by patchware [perhaps the term "hatchware" applies here?] and actually had some willpower for a change. The day of the launch I checked the boards and was glad I did. Given all the promises, I expected WW2OL to be worried more in 2003 about which new war theater to introduce next rather than ironing out the last of the inital bugs from the launch. Hardly confidence inspiring. Given the rate of progress between HTC and CRS in this time period, I almost expect we'll have the full theater conflict in place here before WW2OL lives up to its dream. BTW HC, you noted earlier:
No, non members cannot post to ww2ol forums. The first 6 months of vitriolic ranting and spamming of the Chat Forum caused that. Quite a few ppl here play both sims and they could post anything, anytime about AH that they wish. You find my post offensive?
I was watching the boards pretty closely during this time, hoping that it was just a few small glitchs (except for the many promised features that were just plain absent). It seemed to me it was pissed off customers who were doing all the complaining. Again, I'm glad I wasn't one of those and have no intention of being one until I can see for myself that you deserve my business.
Charon
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Pissed off customers? We reading the same board? Community Forum? Most simply need some tech suppurt which we give. The last complaints were about the panhard and wing fires which were fixed this last patch. More theatres will come. You waiting to fly the uber planes? The 1941 vehicle set is being worked on. Since I just burned my xp2100 chip I'll have to wait 3 working days to try it. I might pull my xp1600 out of mothballs.
HC popped up again .,....look at me...wheee
HC:cool:
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In the Axis forum theres plenty, including Fishu. Not to mention those online. I found a mixture of newbies, most of whom would return to BF1942 (don't go there, I'm just relaying what I heard), then old farts who we're on the Welcome Back trial who just thought the game was a bugged PoS, and then there were quite a few who we'd qualify as LWeenies, who were less than impressed seeing Spits in France, let alone have Hurri IIC's turn up (oh and sick of PIVs being disabled by 520s).
Like here: http://www.okw.wwiionline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5192
Spending 2-3 weeks online A LOT means some of us do have a reasonable idea whats going on.
Having said that, and having said i was 50/50 on staying, and now the Pan bug is gone... I'm tempted, because I crave a MMPOG tank/inf sim. But the inf model still leaves me unsatisfied, specifically the rate of net updates (ie inf seem a little warpy), but those new models do look good.
Originally posted by hardcase
Pissed off customers? We reading the same board? Community Forum? Most simply need some tech suppurt which we give. The last complaints were about the panhard and wing fires which were fixed this last patch. More theatres will come. You waiting to fly the uber planes? The 1941 vehicle set is being worked on. Since I just burned my xp2100 chip I'll have to wait 3 working days to try it. I might pull my xp1600 out of mothballs.
HC popped up again .,....look at me...wheee
HC:cool:
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We can have France capitualate or we can keep the euro map in place and have Hurri IIc and Spit V show up. Keeping wwii accuracy might be a chore. Then again..all we have is a great and growing map and new toys coming in soon. The last days of the Riech were fought on the same map that is being built for BoF. The only wild card is France has no new stuff once the Vichy began.
HC
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If you bother to read your own post, you will see I was talking about the "vitriolic ranters" that you say required the change in the first 6 months of the board. I mean, when Straffo first said (making an obvious and pointed observation about your welcomed presence here):
Can non-subscriber post in CRS forum ?
you countered in your next post:
No, non members cannot post to ww2ol forums. The first 6 months of vitriolic ranting and spamming of the Chat Forum caused that. Quite a few ppl here play both sims and they could post anything, anytime about AH that they wish. You find my post offensive?
I remember, reading the WW2OL boards at the time to see if the POS was getting any better, that those "vitriolic ranters" were rightly pissed off customers who wondered WTF was up with them subsidising an alpha build with their money, that lacked more than half the features advertised on the box and was otherwise unplayable.
Frankly, the WW2OL launch goes down in history right next to Battlecruiser 3000AD. And if you don't appreciate being looked on in the same light as Derek Smart's great creation, you have only yourselves to blame.
Charon
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Yep the launch sucked. We had ppl try it, cancel it and continue to make forum miserable, spammed our chat room so that it became impossible to be a help. Those ex-customers can spamm Strat First now, since the publisher gets the lioin share of a release. As for my being welcome here, HT can close this anytime, until then I don't expect nor need a welcome to post here.If you want to continue to remember that you will miss a great sim.
HC
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The only thing that concerns me, as a potential axis subcriber, is having seen the destructive effect that 520 with 60 rounds and a single hispano has on Axis armour, what will a IIC do?
Originally posted by hardcase
We can have France capitualate or we can keep the euro map in place and have Hurri IIc and Spit V show up. Keeping wwii accuracy might be a chore. Then again..all we have is a great and growing map and new toys coming in soon. The last days of the Riech were fought on the same map that is being built for BoF. The only wild card is France has no new stuff once the Vichy began.
HC
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Hardcase you forgot about the Vickers.;) That's been whined about for a while now. :)
I really wanna know how kill are awarded, what system do CRS use? Seeing as AH uses hit points whoever takes off the most hit points on a plane gets the kill. But what on earth do they use in ww2ol because this is really bugging me.
Is it whoever does the most damage gets the kill? But are some components worth more than others, is hitting someones radiator worth as much as shooting their elevator off and vice versa? Is it whoever damages the most components in the plane gets the kill? Is it simply who takes the most off the pilots health bar or is it awarded to whoever fires the last bullet that killed him? Is it simply whoever lands the first hit gets the kill? Maybe it's who does the most damage but should the pilot die whoever killed the pilot gets the kill awarded....etc ....etc....
It annoys me so much that i started rambling about what it could be. Do you know Hardcase? Does anyone know?
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We had ppl try it, cancel it and continue to make forum miserable, spammed our chat room so that it became impossible to be a help.
Imagine that. Somebody perceives they've been lied to and had $40 stolen, and they don't just slink off into the night. What ingrates.
If you want to continue to remember that you will miss a great sim.
I'll remember it until you give me a free reason to think otherwise, and I determine at no potential cost to myself that CRS is worth my business. I've heard the "new management/wasn't our fault really" bit, but guess what, the company has already proven that it will mislead consumers to get their money. Not speculation here, just read the box. I'll be dammed if having missed out on subsidizing the alpha build, I'll get suckered into subsidizing the beta test on your word or that of 1-2 others who are known fanbois. Maybe it is great now, but words from CRS or its official mouthpieces just don't cut it.
As for my being welcome here, HT can close this anytime, until then I don't expect nor need a welcome to post here.
Frankly, I can't imagine you're doing your cause any good. Each time you post, it just generates numerous counter posts stating WW2OL's continued shortcomings by people in this game whose opinions I trust, and who give a reasonably two-sided review. People who even have no problem saying good things about IL2 for example. When I get my free trial, you'll see me there. If I like it I'll pay, even if it's just to do the tank thing (though then I'll be comparing it to games like Steel Beasts).
Charon
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Hya Hatch!!
Ignore these Bozos :D
Cabby
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I just painted a big X on the wall. First time ever I agree with Cabby...
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There are billions of ppl who don't play ww2. Those that do seem to enjoy it. You wanted to play, couldn't at the launch, threw your cd away and now couldnt without buying another box. All you can do, it squeak at me here. LOL. Those ingrates as you called them, tried their best to be destructive and succeded in only being ostracized. I will never care if those ppl ever return. I will continue to post here helping those that might enjoy a more complex sim than say BF 42. If you think I believe I am somehow hurting the return of some ppl to ww2 from here, you are mistaken. Just so it is clear, I will leave when I choose or HT closes this forum. I don't have an account with AH. I am not disruptive like those "ingrates" that got shut out at ww2ol, and will contiinue to post helpful and informative post on ww2ol whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Free trial? For those ppl who would abuse the opportunity by deleting the registry entries and telling all the bud. I vote no.
Anyone who everhad an account could play during this month. If you never have, don't hold your breath waiting. I take that back. One time CRS allowed total newbies to play free for a month. They may try it agiain, but I betcha it will only be under their control and not some freebie d/l to be abused.
HC
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They may try it agiain, but I betcha it will only be under their control and not some freebie d/l to be abused.
Yeah, just look at all the abuse HTC gets because of the free download. I bet they don't get any new players because of that trial.
You make no sense.
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Always reminded of the disgruntled ppl out there while in here. They wouldn't abuse it? CRS ran a freebie trial for newbies, they might again. Free d/l and trial periods might work quite well with a d/l to play. Strat First controls distribution rights in the US and yiou must buy a box to play, now how many would say, I ain't buying the box, cause I can play free forever.
HC
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Originally posted by Charon
Frankly, I can't imagine you're doing your cause any good. Each time you post, it just generates numerous counter posts stating WW2OL's continued shortcomings by people in this game whose opinions I trust, and who give a reasonably two-sided review. People who even have no problem saying good things about IL2 for example. When I get my free trial, you'll see me there. If I like it I'll pay, even if it's just to do the tank thing (though then I'll be comparing it to games like Steel Beasts).
Charon
True, I wouldnt know how much WW2Online really sucks if it wernt for HC :)
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Considering the flamboyant posts I've seen Aces High fans post on other BBS's...Hatch's came across as corteous and proper.
Please, let the mud wrestling continue.... :p
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they hired doom... they have to be wasting resources and be too stupid to deserve to continue. Their data has to be tainted. It simply has to be less than worthless.
lazs
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Your reading comprehension skills are again lacking. I wanted to try WW2OL, I just didn't want to pay $40 for another Battlecruiser 300AD or deal with a pre-patch Red Baron 3d. I waited and avoided getting screwed like all those "billions" who ran out and got the box on day one, then had the nerve to be pissed off when the game didn't work and lacked numerous features that it still lacks to this day and they couldn't return it because it was opened SW, etc. Now, frankly, who cares. Let Darwin do his magic. Piss-poor companies deserve what they get. FWIW, if HTC ever treats me this way I'll be somewhere else in a heartbeat. Just like EA helped kill 8 years of loyalty in record time.
Your view on the free trial approaches the ridiculous, and is at odds with an accepted concept that is standard throughout the software industry. Your credibility shines even brighter. Hell, your posts even fail the Turing Test (http://www.turing.org.uk/turing/scrapbook/test.html).
I tell you what. I want to be helpful too, in the same way you're being helpful, classy and non-disruptive. Why don't you post your home number. I would like to give you a call around 6:00 PM each night and offer you some great deals on some used stuff I have around the house. I have this great pair of barely used underwear that I would hate you to miss out on. I mean I just want to be helpful and all.
Charon
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Charon,
That is not a fair offer, the underware no doubt works as advertised
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Jimbear-
Are you saying you don't want HC to experience underwear? How sad. :D
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Actually Jimbear, they're a bit loose fitting still. But if you upgrade your package to the maximum and tweak down the waistband a notch or two you don't notice the difference. Anyway, they still capture the true sensation of underwear.
Charon
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3 guys seem to have me getting under their skins. One can never play, his 600mhz is left in the dust, one will never play and hopes ww2ol fails and one thinks it was ok to totally disrupt the Forums and try to destroy the access for others.
Want my telephone number, to phone and equate the forum post here with some sort of real life retaliation. I am dealing with adults, right? :D
Rave on guys, it changes nothing.
HC
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3 guys seem to have me getting under their skins. One can never play, his 600mhz is left in the dust, one will never play and hopes ww2ol fails and one thinks it was ok to totally disrupt the Forums and try to destroy the access for others.
Want my telephone number, to phone and equate the forum post here with some sort of real life retaliation? I am dealing with adults, right? :D
Rave on guys, it changes nothing.
HC
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The day CRS cancelled the open beta they'd been collecting REGISTRATIONS for, I started doubting the whole project.
When it was finally launched, the huge disaster convinced me never to waste my money on that product.
Maybe it can be tweaked to run at piss-poor fps on a top-of-the line computer (at minimum graphics at that.) Who cares hardcase?
A game is not playable unless it has a minimum of 60fps average. A fast paced game should never dip under 60. If it does it degrades gameplay.
Maybe with advances in computer technology, WW2OL will reach that level before it dies off. My guess however is that it'll never live that long.
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Originally posted by mrsid2
A game is not playable unless it has a minimum of 60fps average. A fast paced game should never dip under 60. If it does it degrades gameplay.
Oh toejam! Aces High is not playable! What have I been doing wasting my time with my piss poor 30-45 FPS? shreck it... I'm cancelling my account now.
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That's one opinion.
HC
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Creamo bleated:
Why post like your talking down to a bunch of fools?
Considering your part of the target audience it just makes sense to play down to the lowest denominator.
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Sandman I used to play AH at 30-45 fps too, when I had geforce2 MX SDR and I was in heavy smoke or buggy h2h map..
I didn't consider it playable though.
Only after I upgraded to ti200 I could play AH on a level which I consider playable = no visible slowdowns at any given situation.
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Want my telephone number, to phone and equate the forum post here with some sort of real life retaliation? I am dealing with adults, right?
Ok, I have no clue what you're talking about. I do assume you were referring to me when you said "One wants to disrupt forum access." Quite the opposite. Watch this.
Reasons I will not play WWIIOL again.
1. Development cycle is too slow, and too many issues remain unresolved. "Soon" has taken on a completely different meaning in the world of CRS.
2. Even when the game works, it is not what I would call, "exciting". This is not a dig on others who like it, simply my opinion. I run in real life, and I can say CRS has perfectly captured the feel of a lonely run. Trouble is, I do it for real and don't need a simulated version of it.
3. To me it is still glorified "capture the flag". Sure, it has variations on the theme (attrition), but that is what it is.
4. Locked where it is, the game is too easy or too hard, depending on the side or genre you play. It misses the "sweet spot" by a mile. Problem there is if you go for balance, it becomes more of a game. If you make it real, you make it more unbalanced (and more boring/frustrating). Pretty much a lose/lose.
5. Historic imbalance has been traditionally exacerbated by CRS's baffling tendency to introduce units for one side without introducing their historic counterparts. Axis AAA for six months without an Allied eqivalent?
6. Clipping is still a major flaw.
7. Damage model is still highly suspect.
8. Scoring appears to be FUBAR. Some players squint their eyes and say, "maybe someone damaged it before you got there" over and over despite mounting empirical evidence, but I can't turn my eyes from it. Score is integral to the game- no score, no rank, no advanced rides. It becomes pointless to play.
9. Tech support is virtually non-existant... at least, CRS support. Players have filled the gaps.
Wife just called for supper, or I could go on. You get the point, though. Now... let's see how long it takes you to deny all of the above... and then we can discuss who's denying access to the forum. ;)
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Heh I wrote a quite long post about our squad (70-80ppl), systems we're running like static TS-server running in server of the HTK, RL meetings around the Finland (1st was in Porvoo, 2nd was in Helvetinjärvi (Hell's Lake) national park, 3rd in Helsinki and next weekend in Jyväskylä) but then I thought why bother.
Gotta open another bottle of Chech beer, laters :)
btw real Budweiser ain't no U.S beer :p
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Staga and Fishu: What I'm really surprised about is how two finns wen't into that horrid abomination of a game.
I thought finns are quite reasonable folks.
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Ah, but Staga... I am very quick to acknowledge others may have fun.
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Damn, and here I am having fun in there. Some machines can't play it, some ppl don't want to play a slower paced but deeper gameplay than BF42 etc, some can't keep their comps up to date, some won't listen, some haven't played in a year and still profess to know how it plays for everyone, some ppl think they know how to code when they have no idea of the issues involved. Damn, there I am having fun.
HC
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Staga and Fishu: What I'm really surprised about is how two finns wen't into that horrid abomination of a game.
I thought finns are quite reasonable folks.
Some people like Counter-Strike and some like more realistic games like Ghost-Recon and OFP; I made my decision and thats it.
btw MrSid I'm sorry you think we made bad decision, I hope you can get over it and continue your life :)
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Hard perhaps an analogy would help. First lets admit theres loads of crap games out there. Second lets admit some people do enjoy ww2ol, and some don't. So why do you and CRS get such a reaction on the AH BBS... well a long long time ago:
Little Johnny was walking through the market, and chanced upon a new baker selling his wares. The baker said "Johnny, buy my sandwich, its the best tasting sandwich you'll ever have", Johnny said "How much Mr Baker", "$40 Johnny". Johnny said "$40?!?!" for sandwich?.
"Ahh but" the baker said, "Johnny, $40 gets you into the towns only sandwich club, as a member you can have as many wonder sandwichs as you like for $10 a month"
Johnny wasn't sure, but in the end Mr Baker promised the sandwich would have great flavours, textures, and leave him satisfied over and over. So Johnny bought the sandwich, paid his $40, and the extra $10 to be in the special club. He found a nice big oak tree and unwrapped his sandwich to bite into... his mouth water, anticipation flowed through his taste buds, he bit... Mmmm... ugghhhh... ewww he cried... "Its toejam".
Johnny stormed back to the baker. "You sold me a toejam sandwich". The baker frowned, "sorry Johnny, we just didn't have time this morning after baking the bread, and well you see the landlord is demanding the rent today, so we needed your $40, give me a few weeks and come back and I assure you the sandwich I promised will be waiting". Johnny wasn't sure, but the baker looked nice enough and Johnny felt sorry for him as the other bakers weren't making any sandwiches. "OK" Johnny said.
Three weeks later Johnny decided to check in on the baker again."oh hello johnny" the baker said, "yes we have the wonder sandwich ready for you. So Johnny took his sandwich off to the big Oak tree, he sat down bit in and "arggggghhh its toejam, again!".
Johnny stormed back to the Baker, "sorry Johnny, we're doing the best we can, hey there aren't any other bakers making sandwiches so you'll just have to settle for our toejam sandwich or nothing at all". Johnny threw the sandwich at the Baker. "Screw you".
12 months later Johnny was sitting at home, playing BF1942 when a knock came at the door. It was the baker. "YOU!" said Johnny. "Hi" said the baker, "johnny, we'd like you to come back and take another shot at our sandwich". "Not on your life" said Johnny. "Its free for 3 weeks", said the Baker.
Johnny pondered, he sniffed at the baker, yes there was still that lingering smell... johnny thought twice "I've taken a mouthful of your sandwich twice already, and you still smell like toejam" and slammed the door shut.
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Originally posted by hardcase
3 guys seem to have me getting under their skins. One can never play, his 600mhz is left in the dust, one will never play and hopes ww2ol fails and one thinks it was ok to totally disrupt the Forums and try to destroy the access for others.
Umm... its way more than three. They just seem to be the guys dedicated to pointing it out to you.
Try this excercise...
For every time you've told someone how to "tweak their system" to get the game to run... for every time you've ridiculed someone for not knowing how to solve a minor game proble... for every time you've said "our community doesn't need you"... there's someone just like those 3 guys.
I'd ask you to do the math there... but I do believe you'd plea the "I can't recall" senility that seems to accompany your posts.
So keep coming back and trying to convince us how much fun you're having over at WWIIOn-Line. Eventually you might start believing it.
AKDejaVu
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Let me re-iterate:
For every time you've told someone how to "tweak their system" you should realise a good gamecode doesn't need tweaking to run properly with in-spec hardware.
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I have a PIV 1.5Ghz, GeForce4 Ti 4400, 512 MB RD-RAM.
I get in the fortys pretty regularly in WWIIOL.
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Jesus - you've only got a GeForce 4? OMG, how do you cope?!
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Downtown the big question is how low can you go..
The point is not 'where up you can get regularly' I can go up to 100+ regularly in AH with Geforce2 MX.. the point is how bad it can get with your system.
If it freezes even once during battle, well it sucks.
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Damn, and here I am having fun in there. - Good!
Some machines can't play it, - LOTS of machines won't play it, no biggie
some ppl don't want to play a slower paced but deeper gameplay than BF42 etc, - I don't play BF1942 either, but since you mentioned it, it handles mult-arms much better. But essentially you are right... some people want to play games with their limited time, and don't have the luxury to sit for more than an hour at a stretch. Nice of you to lump them in with the fast-twitch people, though
some can't keep their comps up to date, - Mine is, latest drivers on everything... except I won't touch DirectX 9 just yet
some won't listen, - Exactly, bud... you're not listening
some haven't played in a year and still profess to know how it plays for everyone, - I played during this "Welcome back soldier session... and I spoke for myself only
some ppl think they know how to code when they have no idea of the issues involved. - Never professed to know how to code. This doesn't mean I can't spot crap code, though. I mean... if there's a wall, it's supposed to stop people from walking through it, right? Tank armor should be proof against pistol fire, right? ;)
Damn, there I am having fun. HC - And so am I! Nice attempt at mischaracterizing critics, though.
I will make my simple analogy for you...
Gamer A says he will try WWIIOL. You start talking to him like you're his bestest buddy, and how great the game is going to be. He spends a month straight playing the game, and uncovers a whole litany of issues that disrupt his gameplay. Gamer A comes back here and reports them to the rest of the people on this BBS to discuss them. You come in and start talking like Gamer A is an idiot and somehow the game is beyond his ability to understand, his rig is toejam, or he is too stupid to get stuff updated. That's the part I get tired of.
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The current choice is :
Play the Axis and have fun (baby seal clubbing)
Play French and get rapped with a more than porked hardware.
I know that Ireg is the only persons who can provide proper historical documentation to CRS cause those Idiot cannot read a line of french and rely on "must be true cause they are german" document.
As I cannot say it any more on playshool forum (not anymore a subscriber) :" I pee on you Ireg".
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Our "tweaking" usually involves telling ppl to get the lastest drivers, including the mobos, and selecting "Settings" checkboxes that will insure the max FPS balanced with graphics. It is something every gamer should do always. We also recommend how to turn startup crap that does nothing but rob a system of free ram. These things are just common gaming sense. You may be thinking about the first 6 months when everyone was grasping at straws trying to help ppl find fixes for all the problems ww2ol had at launch and ppl were encouraged to try some fairly exotic fixes.
HC
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Nice whine Straffo, you should test how easily D.520 can kill german panzers with a 20mm HE-shell shot from Hispano Hs404.
btw I'd like to know what are those porked french equipments?
oh and before you begin your rant about RHA vs cast armour you should read book "World War II Ballistics: Armor and Gunery" by Lorrin Rexford Bird and Robert D. Livingston.
It's pretty clear that german tanks in the game doesn't have a FH-armour, just RHA.
If they would have FH the british 2pdrs would have hard times to penetrate PzIII/IV armour from front.
Now 2pdr can penetrate StuG's 50mm frontal armour from 700m which, btw, is pretty much on the mark thought that penetration is for RHA, NOT for FH armour germans were using.
There's also some French researchers i the game, just like Ireq. Pachy had some nice scans in his site thought for some reason I haven't seen them in wwiiol boards.
Gotta ask my cousin to translate them to see if there's something interesting about Hs404 and its ammunition ;)
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Sandman I used to play AH at 30-45 fps too, when I had geforce2 MX SDR and I was in heavy smoke or buggy h2h map..
I didn't consider it playable though.
Only after I upgraded to ti200 I could play AH on a level which I consider playable = no visible slowdowns at any given situation.
Well... (and don't take this personally), if you don't think 30-45 FPS is playable, I'm not sure I'll heed your opinion of anything else. IMHO, 45 FPS is not only playable, it's even enjoyable.
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Originally posted by Staga
Nice whine Straffo, you should test how easily D.520 can kill german panzers with a 20mm HE-shell shot from Hispano Hs404.
It's as realistic as using the K98 as an anti tank weapon.
It least it requires minimal skills wich the clipper don't have ...
Concerning french armour my rant is simple how can all the crew die from a single shell impact ?
Btw I never said that the axis were not having trouble my point is like previous poster said :
Why do the axis have the AA 6 month before the allied ?
IMO it's just to preserve the unbalance in game : it's bad it lead to baby seal ...
I have a box and subscribed several month to have a flawed game :(
I was a strong supporter of this game now I'm just as strongly pissed.
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I have been playing WWIIOL for about the past month or so.
Pros:
- I actually got it to run reasonably well on my 933 MHz Pentium III w/512 MB RAM and a 128 MB AGP Geforce 4 Ti 4200. Frame rates range from 12-15 in heavy battles to 40ish by myself.
- Ground action is pretty good--IF you are with a squad or a decent group of people. It's intense, seems fairly realistic. Armor battles are fun. Infantry is less so because it's so tough to model realistic cover and concealment, but it's possible to have fun playing infantry if you're sneaky and careful.
Cons:
- The flight model is, for lack of a better word, diddlyed. So diddlyed it's not even funny. I have had 109s turn inside my Hurricane I and Hawk 75 at 100 knots--try that in AH. E retention is ridiculous. Hurricanes, Hawks, and 110s are nothing but bait for the Spits, D.520s, and 109s. 109s can turn inside ANYTHING with the possible exception of Spitfires. Plus, flying over any built-up area causes my frame rate to drop below 15 and as low as the high single digits (8 or so). The view system is unrealistically limited, no dead six view, no way to move your head. I'll grant that they do have some neat ideas such as controllable RPM and prop pitch, locking tailwheels, etc., but that doesn't make up for the fact that the flight model is bad.
- Playing Allied is a test of your masochism. I like playing Allied, but the German side has a large player advantage especially during morning hours Eastern time. They use that to push the map backward
- If you think AH is a frustrating game for a lone-wolf, non-squad player, try WWIIOL. I spent the first couple of days literally dying dozens of times to things I never saw or heard. Sniped from 300 yards out, picked off by a tank MG from 600 yards, that kind of things. The only reason I stuck with the game is that I found a good squad to hook up with, and they've taught me a lot. I still tend to die a lot though.
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Straffo do you know the difference between German and British/French AP ammunition modelled in the game?
German shells are APHE with small amount of explosives inside the projectile while French/British shells are pure AP without HE-filling.
Why don't you take a 8,8cm FlaK and test how many shells does it usually take to knock out a British/French tank?
Tip: unlike in real world it usually takes more than one.
You don't have a fcking clue what it is to play on the german side so why don't you just STFU?
You are one of those guys why non-subscribers can't post in wwiiol boards: you don't have a clue about equipments; you did play only in one side and suddenly you decided that your side is having nerfed hardware and then begins the squeaking part.
I whine too but at least I'm trying back up my opinions from books and other sources. Last year I spent over 300$ for a books just to get some info about issues I'm interested.
No problems with that, only thing which pisses me right now is that last shipment from GB hasn't arrive yet even if they sent that package week before christmas. Other package from U.S came in 4 days...
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you guys gonna try to break the record of that last wwIIonline thread lol? If you really want the fanbois to leave, just ignore them. I doubt they'll post messages to themselves. You've made your opinions known, so why not let it drop? The thread will fade into obscurity.
newguy
ASSASSINS
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Originally posted by Staga
Straffo do you know the difference between German and British/French AP ammunition modelled in the game?
German shells are APHE with small amount of explosives inside the projectile while French/British shells are pure AP without HE-filling.
Why don't you take a 8,8cm FlaK and test how many shells does it usually take to knock out a British/French tank?
Tip: unlike in real world it usually takes more than one.
When did I say it was the pak 36 ?
You don't have a fcking clue what it is to play on the german side so why don't you just STFU?
I've played on German side It's funniest than being in a Char and easiest even with the panhard bug I've been involved in an axis attack when after seeing our pzr despawn the order were to clip the char ... it say a lot about the gaming attitude of some people :(.
I persist to say that this game as been tuned in a way to make the allied the loosing side. So why should I play a game when I can read the exact same thing in a history book ?
Why should I play a 1940 game when I can do anything except playing the live target ?
The french were having bad good and extremely good hardware but they were having incompetent people in the HQ
The way WWIIol is made I've no chance to verify this assumption.
Again why should I be involved in a replay of what happened in real ?
It has no sense or it's not a game but more an re-enactement
You are one of those guys why non-subscribers can't post in wwiiol boards: you don't have a clue about equipments; you did play only in one side and suddenly you decided that your side is having nerfed hardware and then begins the squeaking part.
I was a subscriber till last month I didn't bother to post anything in playscool board just because they tolerate more than I can support on the signature of their "Mature" axis.
It's against the law in my country and I over-sensible on this subject.
I whine too but at least I'm trying back up my opinions from books and other sources. Last year I spent over 300$ for a books just to get some info about issues I'm interested.
No problems with that, only thing which pisses me right now is that last shipment from GB hasn't arrive yet even if they sent that package week before christmas. Other package from U.S came in 4 days...
Learn french and you will have some primary information CRS didn't ever bother to read.
I won't learn Finnish history in a Russian book it's idiot no ?
So why are they using German sources ?????
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ww2ol
i have a amd 1.33
XPpro
1 gig ram
GF3-ti500
and i get 35 to 65 in game, in combat, over citys
if flying high and no one around i have seen 130+ in the air..
in AH i get 70-100+
i just got in a amd 2400 and a gig of ddr...
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109s dont turn inside my Hurri, then again, I have flown all the flight sims out there and have aquired some skill at dogfighting. Good in AH, suck in ww2ol and it must be the flight model. LOL
You do realize that cannons on the engine grill will kill quick a few german armors. Little fire and the ammo cooks off. D520s are firing down on the top armor, doesnt seem out of the ordinary to me.
HC
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Continue alienating people hardcase. Nobody here could possibly have the vast flight sim experience that you have. Nah.. not even possible.
Whatever you say.. its gotta be right... right?
You may also want to note how many times you've made virtually the exact same post as above and also add that to the list.
AKDejaVu
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Someone posts the FM is porked cause the can't out turn a 109 in a spit. When someone says its diddlyed, he'd better be a danm sight better at flying. I can out turn 109s in a hurri all day long. How does this involve an opinion?
"The flight model is, for lack of a better word, diddlyed. So diddlyed it's not even funny. I have had 109s turn inside my Hurricane I and Hawk 75 at 100 knots--try that in AH. E retention is ridiculous. Hurricanes, Hawks, and 110s are nothing but bait for the Spits, D.520s."
Alienating moose? I doubt moose has any intention of playing.
E retention is still an ongoing debate, it is being done in furballs at max rpm while the engine goes to overheating. Pilots in RL didnt do that for very long.
HC
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You guys have been taking free shots at ww2ol for a long time. I suspect long before I got here and were having a fine time patting yourselves on the back telling each other what a terrible experience you had and how the sim was just a total waste. Now, I post rebuttals and will continue to do so. Want to rag on ww2ol, have at it. You can rag on me all you want too. Problem is for the denizens of this forum, the free rags are history.
BTW, I think my post are civil. No name calling, no badmouthing other sims. I think you are worried about ww2ol. Survival is all that is necessary
HC
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Nobody has been taking "free shots" over at the ww2ol bbs hc.. that's the main difference.
And.. btw... it wasn't free for most of us. It cost me $40.
AKDejaVu
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Me too. We dont post a whole lot about AH, even the many who have both accounts. Blame Blair and company for closing the forum.
HC
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dude.. what the hell is your malfunction?
Is it really everyone else that has issues with their hardware, because you don't see the problems... with the flight model, because you don't see the problems... with the customer support, because you don't see the problems... with the fact that the game is still very buggy, because you don't see the problems?
Dammit man... get a pair of glasses.
Its not anyone else's fault that the game sucked so bad at release that they actually had to lock everyone out of their bbs.
AKDejaVu
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Weren't we discussing a "FM is diddlyed" opinion based on an inability to out turn a 109 in a hurri? Dude, that aint a FM problem, that is a pilot problem. Hardware, we have gotten ppl up and running with 98 98se ME 2k and xp. Community Forum is the tech support forum. Does CRS have full time dedicated tech support? No. Do they respond and read the Com Forum? Yes. Are they gonna respond personally to someone's..."I cant connect" when it is simply that bad Cine folder that Strat Firsty insisted on adding to the lastest CD? There are lots of bugs. Too buggy to play for you, don't play. I don't care if you do or not. I just like pointing out that some of these "informed" opinions are based on something other than the sims shortcomings. Bugs get fixed. I don't fix em.
Killing panzers form above, firing into the weakest point of armor, setting engines on fire,for one, doesnt seem too out of the ordinary. 110s 20mm kill the engines on Mattys in an instant. As for my flying skill, I earned it.
HC
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And you're still doing it hardcase. Give it up. You've more than worn out your welcome and you are doing nothing constructive on this BBS.
Arguing with everyone about WWIIOn-line suckiness does not encourage people to go play the game.
AKDejaVu
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The reason the bbs was locked..was from the behavior of those who had quit. Can't post with civility? Why should we even bother worrying about those that cannot. Fact is, I think CRS waited too long to do it. I stil wonder why you guys dont post your pissing at strat first, they got most of your money. CRS makes its money from subscriptions. Bottom line, I know most of you guys will never play, you only want to discourage some who might. You just cant do that with impunity now.
HC
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AK..i don't need a welcome to post here. I dont need your approval to continue. Perhaps another tact is in order.
HC
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Mine? try anyone's.
So.. here you come again trying to prove just how wrong someone's post is because it must be the pilot, or it must be his setup, or it must be their own bad attitude.
Dude.. its not just one person you're arguing against. Its not just one person you are making yourself look like an bellybutton in front of.
Once again, because you seem to be incredibly obtuse...
YOU ARE DOING NO GOOD WITH THESE POSTS. NOTHING YOU HAVE WRITTEN IN THIS THREAD DOES ANYTHING TO PROMOTE WW2OL OR MAKE IT LOOK MORE APPEALING. A DISCUSSION AMONGST AH PLAYERS HERE MIGHT SOME DAY DO THAT, BUT YOUR PRESENCE IN THESE THREADS RUINS ANY CHANCE OF THAT.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by hardcase
Weren't we discussing a "FM is diddlyed" opinion based on an inability to out turn a 109 in a hurri?
HC
No that is just another of your attempts at drawing attention away from the main issues that people have with the game.
I think the toejam sandwich story pretty much sums it up :)
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Shouting is a bad forum manner. You assume I am here recruiting. I merely point out such falacies such as...I cannot fly worth a toejam so it must be the FM. Then again, you are hoping for your assumption to be true,hoping to influence those who might be interested into not trying the sim. If no one who reads this forum ever cares to play the sim, that is not my concern, but, then again, there are ppl who have read these threads and tried it and stayed.
So, actually my post have done some good. I am not going to tell someone to play the sim. I am not going to post glowing reveiws.
HC
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Isnt it great to have an opinion. We all have em.
HC
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HC.. you are no longer here defending WW2OL, you are here defending your own blind ignorance.
Carry on.
AKDejaVu
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That can be altered. BTW..showing flaws in arguments is not defending.
HC
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Another attempt at trying to somehow give me permission to be here. LOL
HC
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Originally posted by hardcase
Weren't we discussing a "FM is diddlyed" opinion based on an inability to out turn a 109 in a hurri? Dude, that aint a FM problem, that is a pilot problem.
Originally posted by Hatch
Dont worry, Doc and I pester them regularly about finishing the FM, the missing damage components, and the object biasing on a regular basis... I dont like waiting for it either, but hopefully not too much longer...
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For the record... wouldn't E retention be considered part of the f/m? And if so, wouldn't it be fair to say it is... flawed? Would it also be fair to say this has been known since... release? Aren't we heading into the end of the second year? When do you suppose it will get addressed? Soon, LOL?
I think most of the guys arguing with you have played the game, and more than once, and recently. I think that is more than enough data to formulate opinions. Agree or don't, but that is the truth of it.
You might also consider you don't really enjoy defending WWIIOL so much as rattling the cage here. Why would you spend so much time at your home-away-from-home defending your game? Why would you care what people post on a competitive board? I mean, really... are you Google searching for all game forums so you can patrol them for possible anti-CRS statements?
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I totally agree there are bugs in the FM. The ground model is almost non existant. Not being able to out turn a 109 is not one of them. You do know that the FM of WB and probably AH, since HT did both, has fudges to handle the Drag on them. WW2OL has not done that. Bob Shaw loves the spit model. He loved it in June of 2000. He said if flew more accurately than anything he has flown. No one CRS has called can find a flaw in the FM. Should they tweak it cause ppl, who have never flown a combat equiped AC say so? I for one don't know. I have never flown anything other than a 152 and some comp flight sims. I still think part of this is from the fact that we fly our ac to the extrene edge in furballs. RL pilots did not have this luxury. Our experience is based on wb ah, ww2ol,FO, etc. This still boils down to flyers going in, doing only flying, with low FPS, wanting it to fly like the only sim they have ever played.
HC
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Not at all Kieran. Rattling cages in silly. The FM does not fly like wb or ah. The method used to produce it is different than HT's. Is it wrong. Will they find some bug someday. Could well be. A lot of areonautical engineers have looked at the code and could not find an error. I don't have enough experience to say either way. I could spout off that it doesnt fly like AH or WB and therefore must be in error, but is that really good science?
HC
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In reality, I don't have a problem with the flight models in WWIIOL. They are more-or-less correct relative to one another, though the 109 may be more than generous (operative word "may").
But here you go... Moose didn't direct any comment to you personally when he posted his opinion, whereas you most certainly did make a personal statement about him. It's what you typically do.
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Originally posted by hardcase
Could well be. A lot of areonautical engineers have looked at the code and could not find an error.
"Dont worry, Doc and I pester them regularly about finishing the FM"
For there to be an error something needs to be there. Or have you secretly been writing code and patching it in without telling CRS?
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Saying he flies like toejam was wrong. He flys but has less experience than some and his opinion of the FM should have been based on something other than he was unable to do something that others do,than to conclude that the fault must lie in the sim. I expected more bleed when I first started flying, based on flying WB. My problems are the ground model, or lack of one and the lack of graphical damage. The E retention is a long standing complaint, the engineers were looking at the code to find errors because crs early on could not find a drag/thrust error. There were hoping the engineers could. They didn't
My guess is that the slats on the 109 give it a better edge than the other ac.
HC
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Originally posted by hardcase
Someone posts the FM is porked cause the can't out turn a 109 in a spit. When someone says its diddlyed, he'd better be a danm sight better at flying. I can out turn 109s in a hurri all day long. How does this involve an opinion?
"The flight model is, for lack of a better word, diddlyed. So diddlyed it's not even funny. I have had 109s turn inside my Hurricane I and Hawk 75 at 100 knots--try that in AH. E retention is ridiculous. Hurricanes, Hawks, and 110s are nothing but bait for the Spits, D.520s."
Alienating moose? I doubt moose has any intention of playing.
E retention is still an ongoing debate, it is being done in furballs at max rpm while the engine goes to overheating. Pilots in RL didnt do that for very long.
HC
Actually, I just logged off from playing WWIIOL. I multicrewed a Matilda II, played a little infantry, and in general had a pretty good time. I just happen to think, based upon things I've read and first-hand experience, that the flight model has some pretty big problems.
And as for my contentions about the 109 turning inside a Hurri and a Hawk...identical situations. 110-knot tail-chase turning fights, low altitude, both of us banked hard with the sticks back in our laps. Both times, the 109 made up 45 to 60 degrees in one 360-degree circle, with me pulling 4 to 5 G. And he wasn't closing, he was making the same sustained 110 knots that I was.
In AH, a Hurricane I can turn inside a Spit I. Both British planes, in a low-speed dogfight, can make sustained turns inside a 109E-4, or at least until their speed runs out. Every single time I've gotten a 109 in my rear hemisphere, regardless of speed or situation, no matter how hard I crank it or what evasives I try, he will gain angles on me. Period.
Now, do I suck at the WWIIOL flight model? Yeah. Do I suck that bad? Maybe. But look at it from my viewpoint--what I've seen in aerial combat in WWIIOL stands 10 years of sim experience and historical reading on its head.
So, OK, master of all WWIIOL knowledge. Other than battle damage, what would keep my toejamty little Hurricane from gaining angles on that 109E-4? Trim set wrong? Joystick set up wrong? Hurricane modeled wrong in AH? German planes coated in Belgian sheep fat to reduce drag? I'm running into Adolf Galland every damn time I fly? There's some "trick" to the flight model that I haven't figured out yet?
It is an opinion. I think the flight model has got some weirdness in it. I like a lot of things about the rest of the game. If you don't like that opinion...well, sorry. There's nothing I can do about that.
See you in game, if the Germans don't push us back into the Channel before then.
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Originally posted by hardcase
Saying he flies like toejam was wrong. He flys but has less experience than some and his opinion of the FM should have been based on something other than he was unable to do something that others do,than to conclude that the fault must lie in the sim. I expected more bleed when I first started flying, based on flying WB. My problems are the ground model, or lack of one and the lack of graphical damage. The E retention is a long standing complaint, the engineers were looking at the code to find errors because crs early on could not find a drag/thrust error. There were hoping the engineers could. They didn't
My guess is that the slats on the 109 give it a better edge than the other ac.
HC
That's entirely possible. And, if the 109 had out-turned me through, say, 180 degrees, I'd figure that was it. But these were fights that went through 2 and 3 circles and he was still gaining.
I think you might've nailed it with the E retention. If the 109 can hold its speed better, it might out-rate a Spit or even a Hurricane. But I'm at a loss to see how it could sustain a max-performance turn for 1080 degrees. Again, that's from years of other sims, but it doesn't seem right. Heck, for all I know, that 12 fps may even be a factor, who knows.
I haven't had a chance to check out a lot of the other planes, as I don't have the rank to spawn a Spitfire, 109, D.520, etc. yet. I've flown the 110 once (and died horribly), and other than that it's been Hawk 75s and Hurricanes for me. I will add one thing though--after the icon and view system in AH, the icon and view system in WWIIOL is hard to get used to. It's more realistic, and I like the concept, but planes are basically impossible for me to spot against the ground, at 1024x768 on a 19" monitor. I can't keep sight in dogfights, mainly because I'm fighting the keymapper and trying to get my views set up AH-style.
I posted that "diddlyed" line after a pretty frustrating day of trying to fly and getting shot and blown up in various and sundry other ways as well. Next time I'll make myself wait 24 hours.
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Damn there go my hopes of another 500 post thread :(
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Moose anyone who flies the Pigs(blacksheep here) deserves better than my toejam post. Email me at fstott@memphis.edu and maybe we can crank some more fps out.
HC
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He probably has some up trim in. Try hitting a few hits of up trim. Power to Max. With up trim you can indeed tighten your turning radius at all speeds. Not a lot but some. Now..a complaint I have and this needs fixing...The keymapper will allow you to input percentage flaps settings..25% 50% etc. even on AC that had only full on or full off. I don't like this and I don't do it. I turn flap free, but you can run across ppl who do this.
HC
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No worries HC. Maybe "diddlyed" was too strong a word (but it's such a nice word to say!). I can't believe after ten years of doing this, that I'm still sitting at my keyboard looking at a "misson failure" screen yelling, "BUT I'M GOOD AT FLIGHT SIMS!"
(little reference for all you OLD-school Aiw Wawwiows there)
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Seriously HC, that's what I'm talking about. Much nicer, everyone happy.
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attack mission require..one kill and 10 mins on mission and a safe return. Nothing more.
HC
This is not the end point, missions becoming more complex is on the burners.
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CRS stands for Crappy Rectal spewage.And thats all WW2ol ever will be.WW2 ol sucks.If you think the FM is right YOU suck.If you support that crap game you suck the guy who THINKS the FM is cool.Ive never been sold such a box full of BS in my life.They couldnt PAY me to play it and they tried.Comeing in here to try to promote that which is and forever will be labeled crap is just showin your ignorance.
BTW if the games all that,why arent ya playing it?
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I burned my xp2100 Friday. I have another coming in Wednesday. I could setup my xp1600 I won from playnet but I can wait awhile. Been playing xcom ufo defense on myp700 and typing this on me wife's 1.3 gig. I always like articulate opinions.
Can I use that as a sig?
HC
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A little test
HC
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Go away you no talent assclown.
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Always the high road here. No. What you gonna say now?
HC
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Originally posted by Oedipus
http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75569
Bye bye Headcase!
LOL , I missed that thread first time around, just came across this gem.
"Heh! The BBS telemarketer strikes again!
Man, I hope you never go away, HC. This Quixote-esque crusade you're carrying on for WWIIOL is funny as hell. I browse through this thread, and see posts by you timestamped:
3:33
4:00
4:02
4:11
4:13
4:22
4:35
4:37
4:45
4:46
5:39
5:44
5:47
5:49
6:12
6:18
6:28
And I realize tat you spent HOURS of your day promoting a videogame by trolling on its competitors bulletin boards. That brings out a good chuckle. But then I consider how much time you must spend participating on the boards that actually pertain to your game of choice, acting as tech help support guru for the masses, and perhaps even playing WWIIOL and that chuckle turns into an outright guffaw.
Salute to you, HC! May you never wake up one day to realize how much you could have made if you had been getting paid sweatshop wages during all of the time you've spent as the knight champion of WWIIOL!
Gordo"
I was thinking the exact same thing last night :D
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I don't think I would bother anymore, as it has become a non-issue.
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the hc-crap aside...
moose1, you HAVE to trim the elevator up if you want to get full deflection on your control surfaces in WWIIOL. In the previous "welcome back soldier" campaign, I compared the WWIIOL Hurricane I with the AH Hurricane I. I was interested in E-retention (that forever flat turning that can be accomplished with the joystick in your gut in WWIIOL.) I pulled the stick back fully in WWIIOL offline and was about to pull a constant 3 G turn after a few seconds of higher G (I can't remember the exact G number, so I'll guess and go with 3.) I exit outta WWIIOL and get a Hurri I in AH. Pull back on the stick fully and start off at a high G turn, pass right through 3G all the way down until I hit an accelerated stall and spin in. Hmm, I thought. Tried it again, and released back pressure some on the stick. Sure enough, I was able to consistently turn the Hurri I about the same IAS and G-loading I was getting in WWIIOL. I went back to WWIIOL, and fully trimmed the elevator up as I was going into the turn... to my surprise, the Hurri behaved awfully similar to AH.
My conclusion? Trim is a primary flight control device in WWIIOL, much more so than AH. (btw, I doubt at 110 IAS and low G-loading, a pilot would need to trim to get full deflection of the elevators.) OR WWIIOL has a stall limiter where if you have to trim the plane to get beyond the point where you lose lift over one wing. (my guess is it's the first one.) That 109 is turning inside you because he's got the plane trimmed to where it's riding the stall envelope and you're probably trimmed for level flight at your cruising speed.
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I play and enjoy both AH and WIIOnline.
It seems to me that each of these sims stand alone on their own merits. Comparing them is apples and oranges. In my opinion, AH is primarily rooted as a combat flight sim with ground vehicles added as an afterthought. It has a great mix of planes, the terrain, weather, and damage models look awesome.
WWIIonline is a combat sim, which was designed to emulate ground war, air war, and navy(someday) in a coordinated fashion. I don't think any one component of WWIIOnline is the best out there. However, there is nothing else comparible rolled together into one package. The immersion factor is awesome!
I find myself playing AH to participate in the TOD and when I'm looking for a quick dogfight. When I'm looking for a coordinated operation with the total immersion of ground and air, I play WWIIOnline.
As far as performance goes, add me to the list of people who get good frame rates. I usually get around 70FPS in quiet areas and no less than 29-35FPS in furballs.
My system specs:
Soyo Dragon+ Mobo
AMD Athlon 1900+
1.5GB Mushkin DDR
GeForce4 Ti4600
80GB Barricuda Hard Drive
Cougar Hotas Joystick/Throttle
Regards,
Twig
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WWIIonline is a combat sim, which was designed to emulate ground war, air war, and navy(someday)
Ahh the WW2ol theme.Someday.I remember buying the box full o lies when it came out.Not even half the stuff on the box they claimed was in the game was even on the drawing board.They used people to pay to Beta.As far as Im concerned,that type of a start to an online joke is not going to get me to pay for it.I paid 40 bucks to beta it for them.If there gonna screw you right off the bat there gonna keep on screwing ya.I will stick with HT.They dont screw the minions.
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HC isn't an employee of WWIIOnline? Egads...what a loser.
bowser
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My sentiments exactly!!! After 3 years in AH, a few months in WB and 3 years in FA me and my wingie RAFBader migrated to WW2OL about 4 mos. ago. All I can say is that at bare mimimum from an immersion point of view ww2ol is the place for me. From the perspective gained as a CFI with about 4000 hrs. ASEL ww2ol filled a missing link for me in how I perceived flight should be simulated. Did I have fun in all the other sims, absolutely but there's just something magical about what I perceive in WW2OL. One thing I wish I could find to post here is a thread posted by some programmer named Hoof who had worked at WB and WW2OL. He does an excellent job of explaining how the FM is ww2ol is "physics based" vs. "perception based" (these are my quotes. In any case it immediately brought memories to me of long study in aerodynamics and convinced me that this guy knew something about what he was talking about. My understanding of physics based is that as many lift points as possible in the airfoil are modeled for the forces which affect an airfoil in flight. The flight model then "falls out" from the aeronautical equations modeled instead of being "tweaked" to meet the expectations of some e.g. a spit "always" outturns a 109. Maybe sometimes but not always and it totally depends on one hell of a lot of variables that unless you have a budget the size of NASA's you couldn't possibly program in a game sim.
Beeg
Originally posted by Moose1
No worries HC. Maybe "diddlyed" was too strong a word (but it's such a nice word to say!). I can't believe after ten years of doing this, that I'm still sitting at my keyboard looking at a "misson failure" screen yelling, "BUT I'M GOOD AT FLIGHT SIMS!"
(little reference for all you OLD-school Aiw Wawwiows there)
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Beegerite... that's how most of the sims are modeling flight right now. And hoof graduated with a CompSci degree. Do you know where he did most of his first "flight modeling"?
AKDejaVu
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I'm trying to find the damn post so I can reference it.
Don't quite know what you're asking but here's a thought. Computer Science degree don't mean diddeley squat as it relates directly to flight modeling. What matters is how much the programmer knows either directly or through direct imput from someone who does know about the physics of flight. An airfoil (wing, elevator, propeller, fuselage section or anything else upon which Bernoulli's principle can act) develops lift and drag in predetermined formulas which have been written down when the airfoil was designed (wind tunnel and other testing) These equations are mathematical formulas and thus can be programmed into a simulator. Question is how complete is the simulator. I would assume that we can all agree that the simulators which NASA use to model space flight or those which an airline uses to train pilots are as accurate as it's possible to make them. We all know that these simulators cost millions of dollars right? Ok, now that we know that flight can be modeled with the technology we have today, does anyone here think that either AH, WB or WW2OL simulator efforts come anywhere near what NASA, the airlines or the military have. If so, I'd like to talk to you about a bridge in Brooklyn.
Other than the fact that ours our rudimentary at best, my reading of the postings made by Hoof led me to believe that he had a very good understanding of the dynamics of flight. My understanding is that he presently programs for ww2ol but was involved in WB at some time and worked with Mr. P.
Beeg
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Beegerite... that's how most of the sims are modeling flight right now. And hoof graduated with a CompSci degree. Do you know where he did most of his first "flight modeling"?
AKDejaVu
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Heh, a lot of wild opinions about WW2OL here :)
I shall throw mine in therefore as well:
Currently WW2OL is the only sim that gives me the immersion of real war and real flying. Sure, the FM in flight sim side lacks some things that I am used to in AH/WB but the general physics, weapons modeling and simply the challenge of flying are quite superior.
I don't need dozens of different plane types to find the flying enjoyable. Being part of a huge war, which is raging on air and ground, sometimes at sea as well, more than balances the thing.
The combat simulator, ground and air war, with organized units conducting warfare, is amazing.
The Finnish ground unit, Osasto Lagus, with the Finnish air unit Kuhlmey and my squadron as the fighter detachment gives amazing pleasure in cooperative operations. Ground units give targets and yell for air support, our Stukas loiter and attack sighted enemy units or bases, fighters sweep skies and patrol to keep battle area clear for ground attack aircraft to do their magic. It's awesome, just unbelievable.
And when I get bored with flying I can hop to infantry or armor.
It's the combination of the various things, the great physics and feeling of being there, realism and immersion, that have made WW2OL the finest of the simulators for me. But I also keep accounts open in other sims and play them to keep myself up to date on them and enjoy what is happening there as well.
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Beegerite, I made no mention of hoof's knowledge of flight characteristics. I was referring to where he put most of that knowledge together with flight sims.
And.. once again, all current flight sims model multiple lifting points and physics. Just do a search for x-plane on this bbs if you would like to hear a few people with inputs on the subject.
AKDejaVu