Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on January 07, 2003, 07:22:13 PM
-
We have a party here called 'The Unity List - The Red Green'. It's basically a quite socialistic party that's popular with young kids longing for a place to belong, radikals and people with a poor understanding of the world.
I want you Americans to read my (rough) translation of their values. I'd like your input. Perhaps it can give you a better understanding of how frustrating life can be when you have a party like this forming a coalition government.
I should say that I'm not to blame for the quirky way they create sentences. It looks odd even in Danish.
Translation starts.
1. SOCIALISM
Increased workload, social inequality and rejection from the jobmarket and society in general and a threatening ecological disaster belongs to the chaos of today. There's a need for an alternativ. The Unity List wants a society in an ecological balance, a society without class divisions and chauvinism, racism, replacement and war. The development of a democratic socialism based on people- and worker power with the right to organize, freedom of speech, diversity and a plane economy is the way to go to reach this goal.
1.1. CAPITALISM IS THE PROBLEM
capitalism is the problem - not a part of the solution. Under capitalism private ownership and rights concerning the means of production dominates, together with the market and paid labour. The people that own the means of production and thereby control the finished prodicts - the capitalists - aren't the same people as the ones that through their work create the riches in society. In capitalism its profit, not human need, that decides what is produced and how. Capitalism will thus ensure a further plundering of third world countries, increased ecological damage and ever increasing differences between rich and poor - including in our part of the world. The struggle for market position and power between the great capitalistic centers will increasingly become harsher. Great resources will be tied up by an arms race. Capitalism can't and has no desire to eliminate unemployment. The ejection from thejob market for the weak will also increase.
Capitalism is an interwoven international system that dominates ever increasing parts of humanity. This system - imperialism - has since the fall of the Soviet Union started a new offensive with economic expansionism into the states that earlier were part of the Soviet Union. it's been an unadulterated pillaging of the people in the third world and a liberal crisis politic towards the people living in the 'rich' countries. The economic ties, the political decision - amongst other things through a long list of international institutions -and the global threats to the environment creates a situation where all humans are interdependent.
A socialist movement must therefore be built on internationalism. This is to be understood in the following way: there is no national socialistic way out of the current crisis. When an isolated country succeeds with carrying through a socialistic reformation with broad public support it will from the get go be necessary to have strong international solidarity so that the revolution can spread to other countries. The struggle for material and social rights, against unemployment, war and environmental damage demands a united front crossing national borders. The capitalist authoritarians have never before had such a big and strong international cooperation and coordination as they have today. One of the United List biggest challenges will be to help establish a strong international socialist movement that can rival this capitalist force.
In Europe, the internationalisation of capitalism means that the rich European businesses try to remove national laws and limits so as to do better on the European market. Here they try to create a new European super state that will be able to roll back all the work done by various workers unions around Europe - welfare, democratic rights, protection of the environment and so on. The alternative to the capitalist authoritarians 'internationalism' is not national self reliance or isolationalism. On the contrary a socialist movement must work together acrosss borders and struggle to find an alternative that is founded on solidarity, equality and international cooperation.
1.2 SOCIALISM IS THE ALTERNATIVE
The monstrosities of capitalism creates the conditions for a socialistic movements to be created. The precodition to socialism being seen as an attractive alternative to capitalism means that one has to recognize that one cannot compare the bureaucratic and antidemocractic society that used to be in the east - or any other society existing today.
In socialism, people will be much more involved in governing society. The fre play of market economy is replaced by deliberate prioritation. A central precondition for creation of socialism is the development of a socialistic democracy, in which there is a radical spreading out of power, responsibility and rights to all individuals in society and collectives. The existing democratic rights must be preserved and extended.
The struggle between the classes will continue under socialism. A list of opposites or contradictions will still exist. It's contradiction between the work of the spirit and the work of the hand, men/women, countryside/city, producer/consumer, centralization/decentralization and so on. Still, there'll be created value. No matter how you put the economic system together, you will still only get salary for part of your work. The rest - the surplus - is given to the collective, the company, society and so on, to be used in investments, education, welfare and so on.
Decisions about the use of the surplus and the solution of other political opposites must be made or come by by open political discussions and struggle - not by bureaucratic methods. This means that all groups must be given the right to organise with regards to participating in this open political battle. Organisation include all sorts of organisation, from grassroot to political parties.
1.3 POLITICAL INNOVATION
There has been and still is a need for all socialists to go over the founding principles of socialism again. but it is also necessary - right here and now - to strengthen the commitment to political innovation, putting the environment, solidarity and democracy in the center. The Unity list wishes for the following in the new society:
A green society where the environment is important, not profit.
A red society built on solidarity and friendship between people.
A democratic society where right of self determination and democracy are the essential elements, both on the job and in society in general.
Such a development can only be ensured through the active engagement of the population. Therefore, The Unity List wants to battle preconceived idea about political and parlamentary work where the decision making is done by a few while the vast majority is left as audicence.
1.4 THE CAPITALIST STATE IN DENMARK
Denmark is a capitalistic society. This means that the Danish states most fundamental task is to preserve and develop capitalism. But this does not mean that the state always maintains a policy that is identical to the policy the capitalists want. The state works as a body that settles internal differences between different classes in society. This is very evident in Denmark where different classes and layers have had their own interests taken care of through the state. The Danish state and the Danish democracys structure today must be classified as a compromise between different classes in the Danish society. A compromise where the overall consideration is to preserve and develop capitalism. But where the concrete structure reflects the political and economical relationship of strength between the classes.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Can you believe this nonsense? Here are people who've read Marx on a Sunday afternoon and decided that 'it was probably a good idea to try this'. Of course, *their* attempt cannot be compared to China, Cuba, the Soviet Union, North Korea or other areas of utter misery and human right violations. And of course it's the worker (a class of people that is very small in Denmark, which is a service oriented modern country) who has ensured that we have democracy, despite those evil capitalists. And on and on.
The scary part is I've met several of these 'young reds' as they so proudly calls themselves (that and 'Rebels'). They're thinly disguised communits who, using big words, hides a selfish agenda. They know their propaganda and are quck to point out that South Korea has no unions, that this is bad and that is worse and that only socialism, which is altruistic and giving, can solve the problems of the world today. And no, REAL socialism hasn't been tried yet.
These people support a revolution; overthrowing democracy. Of course they cannot write that, or they'd be banned or something. And our social democrats and others not quite so far to the left form coalition government with these...these.....MORONS and look at the result! Geesh. The price we pay for having a democratic society. Giving idiots the possibility of destroying it.
I don't know what to say to these people. They're rational - to a degree. That is, what they say is rational as long as it is unopposed. But then it stops. They consider themselves the freedom fighter of the poor, guardian of the weak.
Much like Lenin and the other chaps.
Socialism. Hate it, despise it, spit at it, treat it. It's a disease of the mind that just won't go away.
-
Reminds me of "Animal Farm". Or is it the Borg?
-
It just sounds like a bunch of commies trying to wrap their old turd in a new box.
In the US we have a similar situation with a party that calls themselves 'Democrats'.
ra
-
Hey man, can you give me the Cliff Notes version? I nodded off right after the "1. SOCIALISM"
-
You know, the scary thing is that these guys have political power when a left government is in power (which is usually the case in Denmark).
It's just old communism. They've not even bothered to change many of the words.
And there are quite a lot of these fellows. :/
I mean, seeing capitalism as an enemy? Hell, it's given them the opportunity have their views. They don't get it though. And they never will. I just don't hope there'll ever be many of them.
-
Yep Its amazing Santa, the "pop-communists" as I call them here have exactly the same viewpoint as do your's in Denmark. Right down to the REAL socialism has never been tried argument and we're not like wonder of socialist labour state of Albania.Unfortunately this is a fatal disease of the mind with no cure we can only watch them lapse into insanity.
Basicaly there are the rich sons and daughters of wealthy western families who are wholly ignorant of economics and enteriely guilt ridden that some people in the world are poor. This combines with their inherent self-race hatred by being white usually and then they just go off the deep end and subscribe to every left wing anti-western anti-capitalist anti-democratic ideal put up by any whacko.
One of my favorites was a fella at my old school who wanted to get rid of cities and force everyone to live and forage in the wilderness so everyone would then be equal. Apparently he never read up on the success of this policy in cambodia..
One girl praised the socialist wonder of Cuba and tried to explain to me why somebody who works at a McDonalds type place should earn the same wage as another who is a trained doctor with years of schooling.
I saw one at the Seattle or Ottawa communist terrorist city invasions a few years ago on TV. He wore a bright red shirt with a hammer and cicle and the words CCCP - of course, he was protestig the environmental imact caused by western capatilism and industry. Idiots..
-
Hmmm...does this party use a lot of duct tape?
http://www.redgreen.com/
"If women don't find ya hansome, they should at least find ya handy"
SOB
-
Red and green? Isn't that brown? Might as well call them the Bowel Movement.
You're wrong about one thing Santa - capitalism didn't give them their voice, democracy did. Democracy in its purest form transcends property or wealth. The idea is that everyone is equal and everyone has an equal say. Unfortunately, these days it takes alot of money to get elected and, in the US especially, that money is raised by being shackled to huge multi-national corporations.
They are just an extreme socialistic party. They'll always be around.
-
I feel your pain. We in Finland have socialistic government, which equals high taxes and byrocracy you yanks cant even dream of. And of course 15% minimun national unemployment, because the high taxes. Im currently a student and i pay ~35% of taxes (total) and i get almost zero back from government by welfare (which are taxed too ofcourse).
With some 400 000$ annual income your INCOME tax will go to 60%!! And you have to include 22% to that which is the tax for _all_ products/services that somebody sells (food, cars, restaurant service etc. etc.). So 88% tax for him, just because he is successfull in his life.
And do you know what, theyre planning to even raise the taxes. Oh and our 5 million population nation has 450 billion dollars of loan, which is just in the limit of spiralling out of the control because interests. Theres thousands of signs in our economy, that tell the sad story, tax money is hazard money, it WILL be used mostly to wrong places.
Its best described: Extreme frustration :mad:
-
15% unemployment? Wow.
-
Santa, how much did you pay for your degree?...or the last time you went to the doctor?
Daff
-
socilaism is now using the environment to justify removing personal freedom. They need every excuse they can get. Socialism is a fear based politic.
lazs
-
Yups..its every capitalists god given right to destroy the enviroment.
Daff
-
Hey Daff you communists did a great job preserving the environmenbt of eastern europe... WTG comrade!
-
grun said it... but.. yeah daff... the worse the economy the harder they are on the environment... the rainforest means less to you when burning an acre or 100 will feed your starving family for a day or a week or whatever. Pouring high sulfur coal smoke into the air means little when you have 20% unemployment.
lazs
-
"Hey Daff you communists did a great job preserving the environmenbt of eastern europe... WTG comrade!"
What do you mean by 'you'?..You are from there aren't you?..go back and clean up your mess...or are you going to ruin yet another country?
Daff
-
The problem with environment in US is not capitalism but too much socialism.
If property was truly private and property rights protected, then:
1. An owner of the property would have been interested in protecting his posession more than he would care for communal "environment".
2. At worst, an owner could destroy environment on his own property but since he would be precluded from harming property of others, it would be no meat trick.
Like, you can dump any amount of toxic waste into your river and ground water - as long as no waste penetrates into the part of river downstream owned by someone else - that would be violation of his property.
Communal property ownership and "the tragedy of the commons" is what causes some problems in capitalist countries and ecoligical disasters in socialist/communist countries.
If state protected property rights instead of usurping them, all those problems would go away.
As for the whole Unity List - they are just ignorant of two centuries of philosophical discourse which discredited most if not all of such ideas.
miko
-
"that would be violation of his property."
And just who would enforce that?.
Daff
-
kill all commies
-
Originally posted by Tuomio
And of course 15% minimun national unemployment..
Wouldn't that be more like 12%?
Im currently a student and i pay ~35% of taxes
Huh!?! I'm working with an some what average salary and I pay less than 25% of tax. I don't have any tax lowering things
And you have to include 22% to that which is the tax for _all_ products/services that somebody sells (food...
Food tax is 17%. Interesting, tho that EU has proven Finland to lower food tax down to 12%, but no actions from the government...
Not that I argue with your message, lots of things that has to be done, it just seems that present government is not able or willing to.
-Vector
-
Daff: "that would be violation of his property."
And just who would enforce that?.
The state obviously. The only task of a state in a free society can be protection of personal liberty and property (which are really the same thing) - protection from violence/threat (person and property) and fraud (enforcement of contracts).
The current state has much more power than needed to guarantee those - but does not. Instead it concentrates on problems it created.
miko
-
SOCIALISM IS THE ALTERNATIVE
for the lazy maybe
-
Wouldn't that be more like 12%?
Could be, however ive seen figures of 15%, it varies a lot since the government statistics is hampered (it shows some 8% or so). Old socialistic trick is to alter the statistics and leave the problem alone.
Huh!?! I'm working with an some what average salary and I pay less than 25% of tax. I don't have any tax lowering things
Well, gasoline tax is 75%, which is plenty to compensate on the "lower" food tax. Plus the 80$ annual car ownership tax. Then theres lots of other things, like 80% tax on booze. My current income tax is 15%. It easily sums the 35% total tax rate and its almost the minimum that you can have in this taxland.
Food tax is 17%. Interesting, tho that EU has proven Finland to lower food tax down to 12%, but no actions from the government...
They cant lower the taxes, because otherwise they wouldnt be able to pay their bills. Like 300 million $ annual subvention for culture. Which is childs play when we look at what they give for farmers. Finlands problem is, that theres too many people dependent on tax money. It generates situation, where nobody wont dare to cut the spending because their income comes from that same source. Just think those 15% unemployed, would they vote for people that would cut their wellfare? (no matter that it would improve their situation in the end)
-
Daff you are supporter of communism not me.... And yes socialism is nothing different than communism or any other vein of Marxisism - socialists only lack the courage to be open marxists.
Go to hell commie toejam degenerate! ;)
-
Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
Unfortunately, these days it takes alot of money to get elected and, in the US especially, that money is raised by being shackled to huge multi-national corporations.
Doesn't take only money, takes votes too, and many of them are bought with welfare checks.
-
Groinhurts, where did I say I was a supporter of communism?.
Daff
-
Daff wrote:
"Santa, how much did you pay for your degree?...or the last time you went to the doctor? "
Daff I've worked while studying. As it turns out, i've paid more in taxes than I've gotten off the state. Add to that the taxes my parents have paid - money they could have placed in a fund used to finance the educations of their children.
We pay 75% in taxes at least (including sales tax and various fees). How much of it does a young Danish man with no health problem, no car, no kids, affordable apartment get back in the form of services? A few percent.
You do not find it odd that it doesn't make financial sense to go OFF welfare and into a job if you're married and have a kid? Or go off welfare and onto SU (student grants) because then you have less of a disposable income (of which more than half with be loans).
FWIW, I think that tax paid higher education and medical care is a good thing. Police is necessary too. Motorists should pay for road building; non motorists shouldn't. We should have a force to defend our nation. People should be given a second chance if they are unlucky. But it must not pay off to be irresponsible. It must pay off to work hard and get a higher education. Not very true in Dk today.
Daff, it's no accident that Americans have more purchasing power than Danes. It's not an accident that their economy has been (and still is) stronger than the Danish one.
Education here ain't free. Neither is medical care. We pay through our bloody noses for it through taxes. In a socialistic system, the irresponsible are rewarded (like the druggie unemployed neighbor. He is eligible for welfare and is getting more than I would. I am not eligible because i saved money for a rainy day. Social worker did some calculationas and judged that it should last me two months. She forgot to factor in over half of my bills though. Tough for me.) and the responsible are left without any benefits. The state will argue that they can do without help so money can be saved there. Then again, why should they pay?
I guess this is no way to have the discussion though. We should go through one topic at the time instead of the rambling I just made. It'll then become clear that there are major deficiencies in our system. It was hard to admit for me because I've been spoon fed that it's fair and near perfect. But since I've accepted the truth this brainwashing has annoyed me more and more.
You could probably say what some people I thought were my friends said - "I'm looking forward to the time when you leave this country". It's sad one cannot be critical and point to obvious flaws. This misplaced patriotism isn't really patriotism at all.
So ignore the above opinions Daff. You pick a topic or I will, and we can objectively debate it. The numbers are quite scary though (talking economy/redistribution of wealth here).
-
Daff if you're a socialist then you're a communist... And by your words you are both. Anyway I hear health care and education are "free" in Cuba and North Korea so why dont you just pack up and head out to those wonders of socialist labor.
-
What does this have to do with this debate absolutely nothing, but I had a good laugh :)
-
"It was hard to admit for me because I've been spoon fed that it's fair and near perfect. But since I've accepted the truth this brainwashing has annoyed me more and more"
Huh?..DK got one of the highest standards of living, one the best public healthcare systems, a good, free education system and you claim you have been brainwashed?.
It's nice that your parent made enough money to potentially pay for your education and health...mine didnt and I it would have been highly unlikely that I would ever have gotten to where I am today.
I presume you're not going to claim benefits, now that you are unemployed then?.
I didnt leave Denmark because of taxes, salaries or various policies (Cost of living in London is probably at least twice for half the standard of living and starting salaries are a joke), but because of the limited opportunites in my field...but if you don't like it, why don't you leave?:)
Daff
-
Originally posted by StSanta
Education here ain't free. Neither is medical care.
Look at our little Santa! He's all grown up now!
Seems like only yesterday you were posting that all that stuff was indeed "free".
You have passed on through to the other side, Santa.
TANSTAAFL.
Doesn't mean these things are good or bad. It just means... NOTHING is free. Somebody, somewhere, sometime pays.
Congrats.
-
Daff if you are taxed at 80% of your income or anything close to that, nothing is then free. You paid for it with your income taxes and sales taxes, not only did you contribute for your direct expenses but somebody urealated to you was forced to pay from their pocket for your education and medical care. I wont even go to into welfare impliations of this. Surely you must see that, well I guess not since communists like you do nut understand economics...
-
Toad: PFTTTTTTTH :D
I'm not hearing a word of what you're saying. LALALALALALALALA
I am NOT on that side. NOPE. LALALALALALALA.
Oh, I was wrong back then.
But still. Am on my side. No other side. LALALALALALALA
Daff, Dk could do a lot better. The brainwashing I am refering to is this style of argument
"Man, I think we pay too much taxes"
"But look at all we get!"
"I don't get very much. I pay."
"But we have free health care, education"
"It's not free"
", but if you want something, it's going to cost
The bold line is what almost all Danes use to defend the high taxes. They, like I used to, *assume* that it HAS to cost as much as it does today. This simply isn't true. The state doesn't exist in a competitive market - it's a monopoly - and thus it has little incentive to fix things that are wrong. Due to the way responsibility is handled in the state (not my table, go to next) problems that would have dragged a normal company down aren't fixed. It's like a poorly programmed pron browser. People will use it despite memory leaks, crashes because there's no alternative way og getting the porn. The instant another pr0n browser is released that's more stable, people will abandon the original one. Except we can't bloody well have another state, right?
About benefits - I'm in a union. I've paid good money to this union so far and will continue to when I get a job. So the answer is - NO. I don't get anything from the state. I wasn't ELIGIBLE for welfare because I was saving up to buy a new computer, rudders and throttle. Had I been eligible, I would have been forced to pay it back since it was judged that my financial situation was such that I could do it.
Since it takes a month before union money (dagpenge) kicks in, I've had to live for 4200 (around $590) for two months. Food, rent, internet bill, TV license, cable TV. Because the case worker dinnae want to include all my bills in the calculation. And then she wanted to put me on the activation program to lend the money (I was gonna have to pay um back after all).
I'm telling you Daff. Today you need to be irresponsible to get something. it works really well for single mothers that are unemployed, immigrants, people who live beyond their means (big apartments) and drug addicts of various kinds. It's been 'de svages' turn in DK for a very long time. How abou giving some to those that *pay taxes* for a change?
So no. State ain't giving me toejame. And I don't want toejame from it, other than what's mine (the money *I* earn). The people that use are the people that ought to pay.
I'm telling my momma about what a bully the state is. She'll talk to the states mother - Coercion ThroughViolence.
-
California has Gray Davis....
Tax and spend spend spend spend.
At least that's that's been the history. Now he can't get enough money to cover the spending, so we are going to get taxed some (a lot) more. Hope those democrats are proud.
-
Ok, fair enough :)...but you must have seen the 1 month quarantee from the union coming..it existed when I was living there :).
Again, I was one of the 'svage' and it worked. Yes, there's abuse, but has there ever been any numbers on how much it's actually abused?. 95% of the people I met who complained about it had never been in a situation where they needed help.
In the UK privatizing has been somewhat of a mixed success. (Or rather, mixed failure). The rail system was a prime example (I had only been here one day, before I would never ever complain about DSB again (Danish railways)). It hiked up prices and compromised safety in order to gain higher profits. Is that really a good alternative? (And it took several major accidents and investigations before it got stripped from them).
Daff
-
Santa:
Today you need to be irresponsible to get something. it works really well for single mothers that are unemployed, immigrants, people who live beyond their means (big apartments) and drug addicts of various kinds. It's been 'de svages' turn in DK for a very long time. How abou giving some to those that *pay taxes* for a change?
[/b]
Jeez.... we turned him into a... a.... a... CONSERVATIVE!
Now yer fair game for Weazel, Santa!
:D
-
That sounds more like communism than socialism.
-
Originally posted by Lance
That sounds more like communism than socialism.
Nah, different stages of the same (terminal) disease.
-
Anything's better than Pia Kjærsgård (sp?).
Strange to look out the window and realise that 25% of the people I see think the guy who owns the corner shop should be "sent back to where he came from" (can they really mean Brøndby?).
The real problem with enhedslisten is that they don't actualy want power, just influence. That's to say they have no intention of forming a government should they ever have a majority (a statistical impossibility with Denmarks proportional system), which is to say they have no intention of taking the rap for their screwy ideas, any more than the DFP.
And Grun, by this logic:
"you're a socialist then you're a communist"
Then:
If your a capitalist then you're a Nazi.
But then we knew that already.......
-
If your a capitalist then you're a Nazi.
Nazis were socialists too.
-
Originally posted by ra
Nazis were socialists too.
no, its national socialism with bad ideas about the other race.
-
third world countries like southeast asia, central america, eastern europe, and africa neeeeeeeds SOCIALISM.
-
Non-motorists SHOULD still have to contribute to road maintenence, perhaps not as much as a motorist but they should have to contribute.
I mean, if you get sick, what does the ambulance use to get to your house? That's right, the road. What does the fire truck use to get to your house? Yep, the road :) Not owning a car doesn't mean you don't use the roads.
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by StSanta
You know, the scary thing is that these guys have political power when a left government is in power (which is usually the case in Denmark).
And they didn't line you up and shoot you? Damn, you are lucky! Better hope they don't read this until next election... ;)
-
Baaaaaah Toad. I make comments that reflect reality - that doesn't make me a conservative.
Hm, I *did* vote for The Conservative in the last election. Not that it means anything.
It's just that stupidity gotta stop sooner or later! I could be de-stupidified, and so can others.
-
Yes, anythings better than Kjaersgaard!. Why people keep voting for that woman is a complete mystery to me (Even my parents do it *sigh*).
I'd take Kristlig Folkeparti anyday over her!.
Heck, even I vote for the conservatives ones..but then you better explain that the Danish conservatives are still more left wing than anything they have in the US :).
Daff
-
Originally posted by StSanta
Baaaaaah Toad. I make comments that reflect reality - that doesn't make me a conservative.
Of course it does! Libs don't do that! ;)
-
Boy...you pounded that nail santa, Toads just another *sheep* bleating the so called "conservative" party line.
15% unemployment ehh?
At least your government has the *guts* to track it even when it reflects badly on them...of course here in the Fourth Reich our glorious leader decided last week to quit tracking unemployment statistics.
Can't imagine why, unless it's to hide the fact his economic policies are a failure...gosh, the US is now just like all the other businesses chimpy ran.
Falling on it's financial ass.
Do you guys have food lines springing up across the country like the United States of Amerika is currently experiencing?
Heil Chimpler!
-
Nah, I took the online test. I'm a Left-Liberal Centrist. :D
Relax, Weazel and smile. We're all gonna be dead a real long time so you might want to enjoy this brief respite.
-
But someones got to try and make sure future generations are afforded the same freedoms and rights we had while growing up....
I'm not talking about the freedom to stand in line for commoditys like in the 1920's either. :p
Outside and independent observers are critical to any society seeking accountability in government.
It's a damn shame more people can't think for themselves..instead of choosing to blindly follow the party line.
-
Originally posted by weazel
..instead of choosing to blindly follow the party line.
There's obviously a whole lot of different party lines that folks follow.
-
:D
-
Now I understand why you hate Bush.. I am so sorry wiezelle, what he did to you was simply terrible.
-
Originally posted by bigUC
And they didn't line you up and shoot you? Damn, you are lucky! Better hope they don't read this until next election... ;)
lol, u still have the soviet and chinesse style socialism in your mind:D i think the socialist party in denmark might rose to power and maybe wont have to root out opponents like the soviets did in the 1930s ;)
-
Weazel,
Was on summer vacation one time out West. Just happened to be passing through the Black Hills when we started seeing literally hundreds of motorcycles riders on their way to Sturgis.
All on Harleys.
All wearing black Harley boots.
With black leather Harley pants.
And black leather Harley vests.
And a colorful bandana on their heads to hide their bald spot.
You, in your rugged political individuality, remind me of those independent, free-thinking, rugged indivudalists.
;)
-
LOL toad!! yep... ol weazel is "fitting in" he has the speech and the uniform down pat... Any day now he should be getting laid by all the hairly pitted and angry libbers....
When I quit riding Harley's... we didn't wear helmets and no bike cost more than 2 grand to build out of a basket case and women didn't ride em cause you had to kick em over (they had an arm that stuck out of the tranny that you kicked to start) and everyones bike was different and you could find yours when you left the bar drunk off your ass... people would actually come out of their houses to look if you rode in their town. We could fix em ouselves cause we were the ones who built em.
was kinda fun back then... scary.. but fun.
lazs
-
I will NEVER vote for a party that tries to mix religion with politics.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any of the bigger parties have on their agenda the separation of church and state. It's one issue that might make me vote differently next time around.
-
try socialism