Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on January 08, 2003, 04:28:06 AM
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Well, I've gotten a response to one of the applications I've sent in. It's for ETI which is a company that sells software analyzing tools, targetted at signal analysis and prevention of IT criminality. If I get the job I'd be part of the internal support deprtment.
Anywhow. I dunno anything about job interviews. Never done that before. But I want the job. With unemployment amongst IT people on a *very* sharp rise here and a competitive situation that's getting worse and worse I figure I gotta prove myself.
Any tips or advice from you old farts who've been there, done that, had the Human Resource Managers mother when you were young, bought the t-shirt?
Would be cool to have a job. I'm going literally insane from having nothing to do. I think I'm growing old or something; never been so before. Plus it seems interesting and I could do with a wee bit of money.
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I'm only 24 but I've been in situations both as interviewer and interviewee. I'm sure more experienced people have more to offer.
Appearance and body language are crucial. People form opinions on someone within the first 15 seconds of meeting. Dress smartly - suit and tie, but nothing too flamboyant. Wait for them to offer you a seat when you enter the room. Be relaxed, but don't slouch. Lean forward slightly and maintain eye contact when they talk to you. A smile goes a long way, but don't try to be a stand-up comedian.
Essentially you want them to focus on you and your suitability. Don't wear loads of after-shave etc. That really pisses interviewers off and distracts them from the fact that you are great and the best man for the job.
Preparation, preparation, preparation. Know everything about the company - do plenty of research. Recent projects they've completed, who are their major competitors, what the situation in their market is.
Prepare good, solid answers to stock questions like:
1.) Describe a time where you have had to influence a group of people around to your way of thinking.
2.) Describe a time when you came across opposition to your opinion. What did you do to get your views heard?
3.) Describe a situation where a project has come across unforeseen obstacles. How did you overcome those obstacles?
4.) Describe a particularly successful/unsuccessful team. Why was it successful/unsuccessful? What did you learn.
They are some of the general ones I've been asked that I can remember.
Job specific ones I can't give you - I don't work in that sector.
Above all, don't get too nervous. They will make allowances to a certain extent - but if you are a nervous wreck, it doesn't look good. However, I've always found that a little nervous feeling helps concentration and performance - in exams and interviews.
Good luck mate - hope you get the job! :)
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Just a tip,
do not try to BS your way through the technical questions etc...
if you do not know the answer just tell them,
I am part of a technical review team that does interviews in the IT branch for a large multinational, one of the things that really gets me in when the questions are asked and some one tries to BS their way through it.
be your self and relax, and attitude is very important, I would much rather hire someone that needs to be trained a bit to fill the roll than to hire someone that knows his stuff but has an attitude that causes friction.
Good Luck
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I would say letting an old fart would be a don't. Could depend on the local culture though.
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All good advice above, especially Fatty's ;)
The interviewers expect you to be a bit nervous... so don't worry too much about that.
Try to be yourself. Connect with the interviewer on a personal level if the opportunity presents itself, but its good to be buisness-like.
Dress appropriately.
Above all, LISTEN carefully to the interviewer. Its easy to be so worried about how you present yourself that you become obsessed with how you are doing instead of staying with the interviewer.
Know your strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes interviewers will ask what areas you would like to improve on, or what your weak points are... be prepared.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Go to a lot of interviews... your stress will lessen each time.
G'luck :)
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don't wear ur leather pants and don't bring your dog :)
gl
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All great tips and one's you should listen to......especially Dowding's comment on doing research on the company itself.
At some point, the interviewer may ask if you have any questions of him or about the company. This is the time to show that you do your homework and can be detailed in your work or research.
Let the interviewer finish speaking...don't interrupt. Make your answers crisp, and concise....go into detail, but keep on track, don't get mired down in it.
If you have any past examples of your work..bring that along also.
Cobra
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1)Be confident ..You know what you can do and they will either like you or they won't. Just don't be cocky! You get so many applicants with the same training that you look for the one who sticks out. Some guys I hired just because they SEEMED confident.
2)Keep eye contact. I always hated the guys who couldn't even look me in the eyes. I always felt they knew they weren't good enough but they were trying anyway.
3)Posture. Don't slouch when walking or when sitting in a chair.
4)Speak clearly. Don't yell but speak in a tone that can be heard. also don't do a lot of "Umms" or "Uhs" and for god's sake no "Dude".
The best thing I can say is try to be yourself as much as possible and relax!
Being nervous is natural but just think about it like this....If you don't get the job will your life end?
No!
So don't go into the interview like it will.
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I hire people from time to time and I am asked to sit on interview boards for other Cities.
Dress the way you will be dressed at work. Appear eager to have the job. Don't be afraid to say "I Don't really know" rather than trying to fake it. Try not to go into long drawn out explanations. Everyone has experiance... try to make your life experiance fit in with what is wanted in the job. You have never had a conflict with another employee that you didn't resolve amicably.... you cleared up the missunderstanding and parted friends.
lazs
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if the interview is in the early morning, get a good nights sleep and get up a few hours early. then do something that requires some thought for awhile before you start getting ready to go to the interview. it can make a great impression when everybody else is dragging their bellybutton around in the morning for you to appear together and focused.
all the stuff mentioned above is good too, but was already covered.
btw- one of the cool things about being in the union is that I don't have to do interviews anymore. I always hated having to go see some stranger and 'sell' myself.
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Thanks for the advice. Eye contact, body language etc is something I know I need to be careful about. By nature I have a strong...neurosis regarding not wanting to disappoint people, so that should prevent me from overreaching or claiming to be capable of something I'm not.
But loads of good advice here.
Now, I don't have a tie. I have one white shirt and one with little squares on it. Office cultue in the US has a dress code that's much stricter than here, and in the thing they put up they mention that they prefer a 'relaxed atmosphere' - so I'm wondering if I can do without the tie and just dress in my best clothes?
I also suspect I should hold back my natural inclination to joke all the time :). So I should keep my answers short, clear and concise? When to elaborate - any general guidelines or just judge the situation based on body language, the way they pronounce the words etc?
ETI A/S have an American presence (in Virginia I think) and they're talking about expanding there (they sell security related software after all) so it might be a way to go abroad too.
Man, I want this job. I need to not diddly it up.
Another question: now that I've to have a job interview, where does that put me in terms of other applicants? I'm sure that are others that are more qualified than me, but does the fact that I have an interview mean that *if* I do a good job, I have a real chance of getting the job? Or is it more a formal thing or insurance - 'if this guy proves to be an utter mess, at least we have this other less qualified guy as a backup'?
And if there are other 'standard questions' anyone feels can be asked, please post them. I'll do my homework.
Aggh, yet another question. IF I get the job there's the issue of salary. I have statistics that indicate what range a guy like me should have. if they offer something below it, what am I to do? Push for more and risk losing the job or just accept it? Or doesn't it work like that at all? Oh, they probably will inform me of their decision way later. How adacious should I be there? I'd be happy to work for below the average salary, but it would be nice to get a few extra crowns :).
Thanks again.
Gonna reread the thread.
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This is VERY important...
Send a thank you letter to EVERYONE that you interviewed with at the company (if you see more than one person). DO NOT send the same letter to everyone.
In the letter, thank them for thier time, and the opportunity to interview. Rehash your strengths and why you want the job. When you close, mention that you will call them in a couple of weeks to follow up (shows you are a self-starter and serious)
Its amazing how few people do this, even when interviewing for technical/professional positions. I manager I used to work with would eliminate canidates based on whether or not they would send a letter after the interview. It didn't matter how qualified they were, no letter, no second interview, no chance.
Good luck
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St Santa, I know you are anxious for this job, but do not sell yourself short. Remember, this is your opportunity to evaluate the company... and whether or not it will be a good fit for you.
I'm always impressed when the applicant has questions about pay, heath insurance, benifits, and opportunities for advancement. Many applicants ask no questions at all about these things, and it leaves one wondering how serious they are about the job... whether they will be good, long term employees or quit after we've invested in a lot of training.
Younger applicant's (I call them "X-ers") move around a lot from job to job. Depending on the company, you may want to try and indicate your stability by asking questions like the above when you are given the opportunity. It will say good things about you.
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brush your teeth and for once - wear deodorant :)
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it's also very important to use and remember the names of the people you talk to. not just for future contact (looks real bad to call and check back in with "hi, I talked to someone ion your personel department the other day") but also if you use the guys name when talking to him you will be more memorable.
they've seen your resume/aplication, and if you have an interview you've made the first cut. they've seen your skills on paper so now you need to catch their attention as a person.
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Glad you have an opportunity, StSanta.
I did not have time to read the other people's suggestions, so some stuff may be repeated. I passed dozens of interviews and conducted scores of them - with a carefull review afterwards with other people who've interviewed the same person.
Do not sell the experience you do not have. Sell your intelligence and ability to learn quick.
Demonstrate appreciation for principles and scientific "by the book" approach to work and scorn for sloppines and amateurism but make sure they understand you are willing to compromise all those principles to avoid conflicts and hostile environment in favor of cooperation. You will do what your boss tells you to do. If the boss is wrong in your opinion, you will make a suggestion but then do what he decided. You realise he may know something you do not.
If you really know something well, leave some gaps in your coverage, make them a bit suspicious and provoke questions the answers to which you can ace. Anybody can have a speach prepared. When interviewer asks the question, he values answer much more - even if he was led to ask that question. Also, some people just have trouble coming up with good interview questions, so they use your speech to get them, preferably around gaps or seeming inconsistencies. Let them do it on your terms.
If you do not know something well, do not waste time explaining how it's not really essential or easy to learn, etc. - it's not for you to decide. Never dismiss subject as unimportant. Just indicate that you have some idea but not profficiency in the matter. You do not have to know everythinhg as long as you know something.
When such situation occurs the first time, point out that you are a quick learner - spend a minute on that. On subsequent occasions, do not repeat that minute, just refer to what you've said earlier - should take 5 seconds. Otherwise it would look like you are buying time. Behave like you do not know the thing well enough for it to be indicative of your worth, so you would rather not waste the interviewer time and skip to the next more illuminating question.
Some interviewers do not like or know how conduct interview - they are not good with people. They often ask only very few technical questions and let you talk what you want. That does not mean those people are stupid and will not realise BS if they hear it and kill your application.
Many people cannot conduct good interviews or even talk with peopel they do not know. They may seem disinterested, dumb or overly accomodating. You can be sure they will be much more at ease during lively discussion of your weaknesses with the coworkers after an interview.
So talk about good stuff, technical rather than personal, even if an interviewer seems to support the conversation on unrelated issues.
This is a nice kind of an interview, you can list all your strengths and accomplishments.
Some "aggressive" interviewers just ask questions - many of them. Answer then and do not expound much. Often he realises what you mean before you finished your answer and wants you to shut up so that he can ask further rather than hear you babble on. If you show that you understand that he got an idea and can shut up, it's a very nice attribute for a professional. How many irritating people you know continue talking when everybody got the idea and are wasting valuable time?
Make sure you stop talking when they want you to. Do not force unnecessary detail. It's enough to say "switch values of A and B using temporaty T." Do not draw a picture. If you try to be qute, you can say "There is a way to avoit use of temporaty but the code becomes unreadable to other people".
If you catch yourself in a blunder, it's OK. You can admit "I am a bit nervous...". Just do not say that more than once or twice.
Listen and watch carefully, not just talk.
Some tasks are trick questions in a way that they require you to ask for more detail before you can start. Do not jump into solution right away. You may know some technical stuff but failure to ask for missing info indicates you are no good solving real-life problems. If asked how would you implement a new server, do not start with "I would reinstall the OS", or "I would buy a new computer". Ask, "do you want to keep the old environment for fall-back or can I reconfigure it". If told "you can reconfigure the existing one, the hell with backup", you can admit that you have no idea how to do it but will consult the manual. At least you know how to approach the whole project.
If asked for weaknesses, do not get cute. You do not have any you could think of, period. Say you'd like to be a lot smarter but do not see any way to affect that. Do not say "my only drawback is I am a bit of a perfectionist". That is a real drawback, not a masked self-praise.
When invited, do ask administrative - not just technical - questions from technical people - how groups are organised, how reporting is done, oversight, qualirty control, etc. Ask a personal question or two for courtesy's sake - "you seem to have a casual dress code, that's nice", but make sure not to spend more than 15-20 seconds on that. There will be time to discuss children, commute and surrounding countryside once you are hired.
Ask insurance/benefits form human resources, advancement opportunities/pay from the boss, not experts he asks to talk to you.
Continued.
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Continued.
Do not ever say "good question" untill you are an expert highly sought after. It is not as bad as "what a stupid question!" but not by much.
You can say "nice question, I'd like to answer that" meaning "thanks for asking that - I really know this stuff, now sit back and watch me shine".
I can't stress it strong enough - people will ask you stupid off-the shelf questions and will even expect off-the shelf answers, but that does not mean those people are stupid or will disregard what you've said or how you've said it when teh decision is made.
You will probably be asked something like "what was your life's biggest challenge of which you are most proud".
You can say "programming X, Y and Z, even if it took you weekend". But more realistic answer would be "I understand you are referring to professional career, and that would probably be implementation of X,Y and Z, and career is very important in my life, no mistake about it - but the most challenging event in my whole life was probably staying alive through a bungled counter-ambush operation after our planes accidentally dropped napalm on our position and ammo resuply on enemy's..." Or "rasing good children".
If asked, why do you want to work in this company, do not give them crap "I've studied all I could about your company and can only work here". They know it's crap, the job market is tight.
Anayway, you work not in the company but in a group or a department and those can be hell in an otherwise great company. So tell them you are a professional for hire. Make them a compliment that their's seems a nice environment (group, office) where you'd love to work. They seem to have growth opportunities for you - indication you would not jump the ship righ away. This kind of stuff.
You may thoroughly prepare prepare in that respect as Dowding suggests - if you have nothing better to do. But for God's sake, do not spit that noncense out indiscriminately. Mentioned that you've learned a whole lot about their company but do not go into details - it will turn most people off. Most people will assume it's a meaningless politeness and forget about it. Very few who care will surely ask you to elaborate - "what did you learn". Only then start the ass-licking. Most likely that would be an HR person or some managing director on business side, not technologist. Most techies will be repulsed by it. The technologist wants grunts to do work, not politicking smooth-talkers. Most of them did not do this kind of stuff themselves - even if they think it was worth doing they may hold it against you.
If you talk with someone from personell/human resources - not professional, talk more about credentials. Do not confuse them with technical details.
If you talk with a professional, emphasize experience/abilities, not credentials. He may have got worse grades than you or less prestigious college - no need to make him resentfull.
In american IT I would advise you not to send "thank you" letters to anyone, or if you do - only to the boss responcible for hiring. Do not make it too elaborate and personal, like "what a great team he has". You are not desperate. You just normally do that kind of polite stuff without much thought. Mail it three days later, not the next day.
Do not call them in a couple of weeks and do not promice that - you will be expecting a call, not making it.
There are all kinds of wacky people out there and you would never fit all their peculiar preferences. For every guy who would not hire you without a follow-up letter, ten would not hire a stiff shirt who would send one.
BTW, you can ask an underling, if the boss will expect one or be scared by it. They know you are hman and want a job. If they like you, they will give you a good advice. If not - you have nothing to lose.
Most managers are former technical people not very good at administration or interested in it. Some things are not a sign of neglect, just of chaotic organisation.
You do not know their situation. Just forget about it and concentrate on what you can affect. You can be fifth guy on their list but the first four may decline offer or quit after two weeks.
Joke some (1-2 times), not a lot even if they seem to like it.
If offered a low salary, say that you would prefer more but your financial situation is such that you can take a lower paying job in such a great company ;) because you are sure after the first year they will be glad to pay you more - once they realise how good you are. That may result in immediate raise or not but will not drop you from consideration.
They may have relaxed athmosphere and you can express your appreciation but a suit and a tie is what you wear for an interview. It does not have to be a great tie - you are a techie, after all - but a standard whole and clean one. 3$ get you one from a chinese peddler in the street.
Try not to say crap like "you see...", "like...", "uhhm". Practice beforehand but if you can't control it, do not worry. You are not interviewing for a network ancor. You cannot do too many things at once. Better be relaxed and as natural as possible.
Oh, treat an interview as a free education for the future one. Note things. That will take your mind off from worry.
Have a notepad or a hidden recorder. As capt.a. said, note names, departments, relationships - who is who, does what, works for whom.
Good Luck.
miko
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don't forget the big boobs. if you have those you're 50% hired :)
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"A wee dab of speed is just the ticket"
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Others have commented on behaviour in the interview, so I'll concentrate on other matters.
Dress is important. You are applying for a professional job so it will help immensely if you look the part. Blue suit (with stripes), white shirt, tie should have a significant amount of red on it (red shows initiative). Don't wear a tie which has special meaning (old school etc). Wear your best shoes and polish them well. If you have to do more than a trivial walk, take along polish and a shoebrush to remove scuffs. Looks count! The interviewer will make an initial judgement of you in the first 30 seconds!
If you can't afford a suit - and you should look on one as an investment not a cost - then wear a tweed jacket with freshly pressed trousers.
The day before the interview, take a trip to where you're being interviewed so you know how long it will take you.
Turn up 15-30 mins early (but not more than 30 mins early unless you've got a really good excuse) and chat to the staff there. By doing this not are you only getting valuable information, but you are also showing initiative and interest. That the receptionist thinks you're polite may count in your favour; that she thinks you're impolite will count against you. Remember that you're clueless as to who is who, so the older gentleman you met leaving the Gents may well be the Managing Director and his view of you will certainly count! If you have to travel by public transport and this means that you will either be very early or cut things extremely fine, tell them in advance: sitting outside reading a paper for an hour may be fine in good weather, but if it's raining you'll want shelter, and even if the weather's good, it's probably a good idea to let the site security guards know that you're not casing the place.
Remember: you've got the interview so they already think you can do the job. Be confident and be yourself.
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lol dead! yeah that's my advice too- stay up the night before snorting coke and listening to iggy pop. works for me anyway ;)
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Fark. NOW I am getting nervous.
Looks like I can't charm my way through this.
And snobby clothes. Never owned any in my entire life. I even feel totally misplaced when going to medium price restaurants.
Oh dear. This is gonna be interesting.
Many thanks for all the responses - and especially thanks for miko dedicating so much time. I'm collecting all this info in a document (with credits of course). It could be useful not only to myself but to other newbies.
Thanks dudes.
:D
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Human Resource Lady: "Ehm....and you are?"
Santa: "Ouch keep it down lady! Why are you, like, screaming and stuff?"
HRL: "You seem to be lost. Let me call security and they'll help you out"
Santa: "D00d. YOU called me and aske me to come on this ungodly time of the day. It's about the, um..job thing.
Santa: "Hahah, your breath is even worse than mine. And what's happened to your face?"
<Übergeek enters>
Übergeek: "So you're Santa?"
Santa: "Who's asking?"
Übergeek: "I'm the head of the tech department"
Santa: "Do you give it?"
Übergeek: "What?"
Santa: "Head."
HRS (chirpily): "Well, let's get started"
Santa: "Yeah, umm...I have like...yeah, I need to go soon anyway. Damned back is hurting again. Always does that when I don't get enough sleep. Shoulda stayed home as I usually do, but... I do it for you lady
Übergeek (clearly annoyed): So, Santa, you think you can be an asset? In what way do you think you can contribute to this company?"
Santa: "Well...umm..dude, it's like...you've really like messed up. And it's no good. And I..umm..I think I can do better. Because I sure can't do worse.
Santa: "Say, with those lungs I'm surprised you need to breathe".
Santa: "Oh I know you! You're that guy who tried to be a cop but washed out. Hahahaha, now you're stuck here. How's life as a cop wannabe?"
...
Santa: "Am I hired?"
Heh, that's prolly what's gonna happen.
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StSanta: Many thanks for all the responses - and especially thanks for miko dedicating so much time. I'm collecting all this info in a document (with credits of course). It could be useful not only to myself but to other newbies.
You are welcome. I was glad to use this forum for something constructive for a change. Just remember - my suggestions here apply only to the search for an entry-level or similar job.
Once you are an expert with at least 4-5 years and want to land a cushy job with many zeroes paid for mostly browsing the Internet, I may give you a completely different set of suggestions.
miko
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LOL :D
Ah, the good ol days of interviewing. Nice read... heheheheheh I can see it now
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Sandals/slippers, shorts, sunglasses. Walks into interview on hot summer day smoking a cigarette. Hi, glad to meet you. So whatchu guys do at this joint anyways. Wanna beer?
:D
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Letem know at the interview that you need access to the AH BB
100% of the time or you might go postal!!