Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: hitech on January 08, 2003, 11:20:01 AM
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Gentlemen Id realy like to give access to shape additions for the editor.
To do this we need to find either a very inexpensive or free 3D editor.
Minimum requirements for the editor would be.
1. Ability to save a planer poly ,not on a triangle basis.
2. Ability to tag the polies with names.
3. Have a file format that is documented with the above capablities or user DLL support that has access the data to write an exporter.
This would give us a mothod of puting specific shapes tied to terrains.
Other fetures that are desired.
4 Suport for LOD.
5 Support for other attributes on polies.
6 Suport for detail faces.
7 Support for grouping of polies so that dead shapes can be made.
8 Sport user written DLL's , this helps a lot when testing shapes before converting them to AH.
If you find one that you think will work please post a link here.
HiTech
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http://www.anim8or.com
totally free and super simple. (comparatively speaking)
has a full manual, easy to follow, the site has tutorials, and support forum as well.
i think there are some other AH members that have used it as well.
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gmax??
http://www.discreet.com/products/gmax/
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Does Rhino still have a freebie/cheap version?
Gatso
http://www.rhino3d.com
...It appears not. Had a couple of friends who swore by it a few years ago. looks like it's moved on a bit.
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Neg on gmax, way to expensive to buy license .
HiTech
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Sorry, wasn't sure wether you guys had to get a license or not.
How about Blender?
http://www.blender3d.org/BlenderProducts/
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anim8or seems to be a no go, couldn't find anything on it to enable atributes for primitives, or file documentation.
Blender looking intresting anyone used it much?
HiTech
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I found all of these..
MindsEye (http://mindseye.sourceforge.net/)
ImageWare (http://www.imagewaredev.com)
MarbleClay (http://member.nifty.ne.jp/escargot/MCLInfo.html)
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Hitech, What programs ARE usable? I have 3d studio max can I use that?
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by hitech
Blender looking intresting anyone used it much?
HiTech
I've used it a bit, I'm no 3d artist, but it's a fairly decent program. A pain in the bellybutton to learn though, as it has a rather odd interface.
Blender is also GPL'd.
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HT I havent played with it enough to know if it will do everything you are asking, but MilkShape3D is headed in this direction. The last I heard they were getting ready to plug in a height map generator and terrain map system. I received an email the first of last month that there was a new version out but I havent downloaded it to check it out, yet. You might give it a look.
http://www.milkshape3d.com
It's only $20 to register, but the best part is it's put together by Quake guys. So, if you need an additional feature, usually a simple email will get the ball rolling.
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HT, I may have asked this before but I can't remeber the answer.
Why don't you just concentrate on supporting a format and let the users choose which ever program that can export to that.
3ds is a fairly common export format. Its an open format if I remember correctly. Can't remeber if its supports all those requirements though. Worth looking into.
take a look here:
Whotsit 3d file formats (http://www.wotsit.org/search.asp?s=3d)
also here:
3ds library (http://lib3ds.sourceforge.net/)
the above is under LGPL but at least you can look at it as example code.
Regards,
Wab
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Because with somthing like dxf, some will triangulate it/ very bad/ some will not alow taging at all.
HiTech
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I'm searching the Pov guru's out right now to see if any of them have done any work with a modeler and Pov's polygon object. Several systems out there do what you want but the export method utilizes triangles.
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>>A pain in the bellybutton to learn though, as it has a rather odd interface.<<
I didn't find Blender too bad. I did a quick walkthrough and then played with it for about 4 hours. I've never, ever done anything in 3D before (unless you count AH Terrain Editor:)) I think it would be pretty easy to make basic shapes, fueltrucks, building, etc. I can't comment for more advanced/precise uses. Also, i'm completely ignorant of the features Hitech has requested.
Basically, all i'm saying is: if it's good for you, then don't let the interface put you off, HT. If we can handle the TE, then we can figure Blender out.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit the above is under LGPL but at least you can look at it as example code.[/B]
Isn't it allowed to link any software to libraries under LGPL? Thought that's what the Lesser in LGPL stands for.
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If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, but I seem to remember one of the clauses in LGPL being that you had to distrobute your own app in linkable form so that users could re-link in a more recent version of the library at a later date. Not very practical for commercial apps.
If I'm wrong please set me straight.
Regards,
Wab
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, but I seem to remember one of the clauses in LGPL being that you had to distrobute your own app in linkable form so that users could re-link in a more recent version of the library at a later date. Not very practical for commercial apps.
If I'm wrong please set me straight.
Regards,
Wab
For shared linked libraries it is enough that the program works with all interface compatible versions. I don't consider this too impractical. To import 3ds files into the editor you would have to install a library with a matching interface first. Not that difficult.
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Here is the clause I was refering to:
If you link other code with the library, you must provide complete object files to the recipients, so that they can relink them with the library after making changes to the library and recompiling it.
from:
LGPL (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/lgpl-license.php)
I took that to mean that if the library was linked into my exe as a lib (as opposed to a dll) then I would have to provide all my obj files for someone to re-link the project.
Now if its a dll you might could work around that.
But personally, being a distrustful person, if I had a file spec and sample code to look at, I'd prolly prefer rewriting it my self to avoid getting tangled up into other peoples control trip.
Your milage may vary.
Regards,
Wab
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MilkShape is held to be the best route to follow, HT, given what you are looking for. It's not quite where you want it, yet, but the programmers may take bribes. :)
If anyone wants to check out the others that were suggested:
This one is Japanese and is highly thought of.
HexaGreat 3D - Free
http://plaza10.mbn.or.jp/~shusaku/roku/rokue.html
This one probably will not suit your requirements as it is commercial.
Carrara 3D - Cost $99.00 free intro
http://www.eovia.com/home.jsp
Hmmm...
Wings 3D - freeware and I like the name!
http://www.wings3d.org/
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any news HT?
greetings
ramzey
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Guys I havent heard any replies on this but I have to tell you that Wings 3D is FREE! The source code is available with the download, too. Check it out!
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Voss is on to something,
here's a small pic from the forums at wings3d.org
(http://bdragon.drzib.homelinux.net/jeff/harrierwings.jpg)
(http://bdragon.drzib.homelinux.net/jeff/harrierfgfs.jpg)
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HT I don't guess anything like AutoCAD would work?
(long time owner)
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It can't be too expensive for HTC to buy licensing for, so if Gmax is too expensive, everything that side of it is too.
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There is an free evaluation version of Rhino 3D which is identical to the retail version however it will only saves 25 times and then ceases to save any more here is a link to the site if your are interested: http://download.mcneel.com/rhino/3.0/eval/default.asp
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punt:D
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whats wrong with using 2D ?!?!? it was good enough for space invaders!!!
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the laser is porked!
It doesn't travel the speed of light!
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punt
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I always liked Truespace. Now they've made the full version 3.2 available free as a download. Worth looking at.
http://www.activeworlds.com/products/truespace.asp
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Originally posted by hitech
Neg on gmax, way to expensive to buy license .
HiTech
How much is "too much" (specifically, within 10% please)
I for one am willing to make a special one time contribution to help raise funds to purchase a GMAX gamepack license for HiTechCreations, Inc...
If Auran can manage to get a GamePack rolling for Trainz, HTC should be able to manage it for AHII...If you need help with funds, ask your userbase - I think you'd be surprised how many of us would be willing to chip in...We're all VERY willing to invest in the future of our community!
:)
DamPhyno
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over 150000$ for license
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:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
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heh
:rolleyes:
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Worth every *damn* penny spent for a license for GMAX.
Just think of all the development work that's been done for FS2002/CFS3 that you'd be able to piggyback... The reduction in development time/costs alone would make it worth it. Shoot, you could offload almost *all* of your aircraft development onto the userbase, if you gave us the right tools for the job... :)
Man, so many ideas on how to make AH2 THE BEST... :)
My biggest issue is that it's not user-extendible - can't even skin planeset easily...
1.) Make the planes easy to design and paint,
2.) have easy criteria to submit them and get an official stamp for the plane. Similar to the criteria for the 1% Design group at http://www.avhistory.org would be a good start.
3.) Have a CRC or something similar on each plane that's checked server side at load(spawn) time to detect "modified" (i.e. potentially cheating) planes.
*ponder ponder*
Phydo
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by any chance, do you work for g-max;)
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Don't see this listed here yet:
http://www.ac3d.org/
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Originally posted by fullback
Don't see this listed here yet:
http://www.ac3d.org/
Yeah, that's the one I'm learning now... GMAX is cool because I have a little 3DSMax experience...but I downloaded the demo, and it looks cool...
BIG PLUS - you'd be able to share a development format with all the Targetware 3d Model developments.
Sure, they're a competitor of sorts...BUT...you *have* to realize at the same time that your fanbase is similar, and 3d model developers for Targetware mods would probably be MORE than happy to share with the Aces High Community, as well...better exposure for them...
That is...*IF* Hitech Creations even *wants* to have a "user development" community to take a major portion of the development load of new aircraft off their hands...
Imagine what Aces High would look like if people like Brady could put together a team to develop the Cant bomber he wants...or do the research to find a good (unporked in his opinion) cannon model for the A6M, and all Hitech's creative folks had to do was validate it...
Man, that would be a GREAT GAME...
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Has some interesting user add-ons also. I don't think any customer would disagree that user-developed/HTC reviewed contributions would be a plus. But, that's not our call. :)
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Originally posted by fullback
I don't think any customer would disagree that user-developed/HTC reviewed contributions would be a plus. But, that's not our call. :)
Yeah, not our call...but there's competition always looming on the horizon...Targetware is Massively Multiplayer, too...and it's designed from the ground up for player-created content...
Were *I* in Hitech's shoes? In my chase for the bottom line, (which has been shown to me in things like keeping the game Modem-User Friendly) there's no way that's something I could blithely ignore...
Phydo
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I ask about that HT long time ago, its his company and his choice
TR is not MMOG, will be when open beta relase, so far its game still under development;)
and as i think 200 players is not MMOG for current times ;)
ramzey
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Originally posted by ramzey
I ask about that HT long time ago, its his company and his choice
And what did he say?
Originally posted by ramzey
TR is not MMOG, will be when open beta relase, so far its game still under development ;-)[/B]
Quote from the Targetware FAQ...
An Amazing Korean War Combat Flight Sim -- The first Targetware game, Target Korea, is a massively multiplayer online flight combat simulator, set in the Korean War. Fly action-packed missions against a sky full of planes piloted by real people: dogfights, escorts, bombing runs and furballs. Play multi-mission scenarios from the war's inception all the way through the armistice, flying everything from the P-51 Mustang to the MiG-15bis. Play on other people's servers, or run your own, with your own rules.
Funny...says massively multiplayer right there...
For me "Massively Multiplayer" in a flight sim is where there's a persistent world that you can connect to where you have more than 20 on a side... The CT on most nights fits my tastes closely enough.
100 players in one 250x250 mile arean is MORE than massive for my taste...
But that's just me. I'm easy (but not cheap)
Phydo
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Whoop-tee-do!
Wouldn't be the first time a Dev would lie, now would it?
For all we know, their idea of massively multiplayer might be 32 player servers.
But anyway, this thread is about 3d editors, not Target Korea.
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HT say nothing, and thats not bad sign
If he say NO, that mean no. If he not say a word thats mean "mayby"
Funny, even without word from HTC side i still belive:D
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I can't make blender work on my system...GeForce 4 4600 in my PC...dunno if that makes a dif...or if it doesnt like dx9. I get weirdness, like its loading., but not there...if i wiggle the mouse, menu items "unfog" and appear
Supposed to be great, wanted to make some 3d models for my little movies and use my adobe Premiere and After Effects on em
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Did you try the 2.25 version? 2.27 has a few issues.
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Both, yes.
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Rgr, I put a note up on the BBS at blender.org. Either, keep an eye on it, or I'll post an echo here when they respond.
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LePaul, they are working on it. Until they can find the problem and fix it I suggest you go to:
http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.04/
and download the 2.04 interface. It will work.
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Additionally...
http://www.blender3d.org/Support/?sub=GraphicsCards
check your video card settings...
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Ah, i have aa set to max in all modes
re-downloading...the problem screenshot is what i get
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The higher I set my resolution the more pronounced this effect. Keeping it under 1024x768x16bit is probably best. The 2.04 version was least pronounced of all, but no one can tell me why.
Anyway, good luck.
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Ok, got it running now and WOW...lotsa neat buttons.
Off to RTFM ;)
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Hitech, I hope you will see this post.
Check out AC3D, not sure if it will work for you, but its a very nice little 3D modeler for a minimal cost $40 (if I remember correctly). I know several guys who are turning out some amazing models with it.
http://www.ac3d.org/
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Verm, is that what you've been using?
Btw, got your e-mail... write ya back tonight
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Dux, I purchased a copy back when I first started learning 3D Modeling and played around with it for a while, but I never became an "expert" with it. Razor and Jedi both use it on their 3D models, and they're very good with it.
I moved up to Lightwave 7.5 recently myself. One of the "Big 3" (or 4 depending on perspective) of the 3D modeling proggies, but of course the price tag is "BIG" as well. My girlfriend is still pissed that I spent that kind of cash on a hobby ;)
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Tell her the choice was that or PowerPoint... she'll understand. ;)
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punt
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Little late i'm sure, but....
http://www.turntool.co.uk
not sure if this is a possibility...just ran across it...
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Blender is a pretty powerfull little 3D Program, specially since it's TOTALLY free and it's open source. It works with Linux too (w00t!!!). I've used it some, and as stated above it's got a pretty odd interface when compared to Gmax or other similair programs.
It's open source, updates being released quite often, you can update it your self if you like and have the skills for it.
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http://www.openfx.org/about/index.php
Openfx may be worth looking at. It's free and open source.
>It includes a full renderer and raytrace engine, NURBS support,
>kinematics-based animation, morphing, and an extensive plugin
>API.
>Plugin capabilities include image post processor effects such as
>lens flare, fog and depth of field. Animation effects such as
>explosions, waves and dissolves add enormously to the
>flexibility of the program.
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Greetings Hitech!
Did you try 3D Canvas ( http://www.amabilis.com ) ?
Guys do modelling with it for MS Train Simulator.
It has some nice features and the price is reasonable.
And I think it is developed by single individual, maybe you can reach a mutually benefiting agreement with him, for example, using some of it's code or modifying it to your needs.
Keep up the good work!
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laces out