Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on January 08, 2003, 11:50:14 AM
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We had another case of child abuse in Sweden this week.
Right now a 6 weeks old baby girl is fighting for her life in a University hospital in northern Sweden. Police arent giving too many details, but some info has leaked. She has broken ribs on both sides of her chest, and she has a head damage (in Sweden its called shaken baby syndrome or damage) it comes from when you grab a baby and shakes him/her violently. The injuries on the ribs and in the head are consistent with someone picking the baby up, holding her hard while shaking her violently.
Her dad, a 19 yr old has been arrested, and her mom, also aged 19 has been apprehended by the police, she will be arrested tomorrow.
I dont know if it is because I have kids myself, but just thinking about that little girl and those two "parents" just makes me so sad, I mean those "parents" are all she has in this world. How can they do such a thing. It's...I just dont know what to say really.
And at the same time it fills me with such ice cold hate. So help me I would like to borrow one of Lazs guns and get my hands on those "parents".
wtf is wrong with people?
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This is all to common in the world. We hear about such things here in the U.S. everyday on our evening news. Sometimes I wonder if there is any hope for our specie.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
wtf is wrong with people?
good question. let me know if you figure it out because i'm often asking the same.
i think it's that we're at a weak time in history- a few thousand more years and i think some of this will tame out hopefully as people become smarter.
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40k children starved to death today. 40K tomorow and every day after. Humans are smart enough to become twisted by the silliest things.
HC
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There is a difference between starving to death and being starved to death. But go ahead and use gross stats to dismiss the total lack of compassion.
I liked it better when you just posted WWIIOnline stuff... I was less likely to stumble across your inane ramblings.
AKDejaVu
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In the U.S., during the year 2000:
Approximately 879,000 children were found to be victims of child maltreatment. Maltreatment categories typically include neglect, medical neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and psychological maltreatment. Almost two-thirds of child victims (63%) suffered neglect (including medical neglect); 19 percent were physically abused; 10 percent were sexually abused; and 8 percent were psychologically maltreated.
source: http://www.jimhopper.com/abstats/
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When modern society weeds out most forms of social darwinism, many types of behavior slip through the cracks. I'm not trying to say that this baby being shaken was inevitable, or that a child born from a pair of nineteen year olds is necessarily doomed to a pitiable life, but those two kids that are now in jail should have never become parents in the first place. The whole incident is a trajedy.
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There is a difference between starving to death and being starved to death.
Not to the kid in question, it isn't.
And when a warlord diverts foreign aid to his own troops, knowing fullwell that his people are starving, he might as well be using his own hands - but he possesses the benefit of proxy, so keeps his hands clean.
I don't think people are more 'evil' now than they were in years gone by. Events get reported now where before there simply wasn't the coverage. All that has changed is that we seem to want to believe we are better than previous generations - in alot of ways that's the most untrue statement you'll find.
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40k children starved to death today. 40K tomorow and every day after. Humans are smart enough to become twisted by the silliest things.
- hardcase
I don't know exactly what hardcase meant by the above, but I do understand the need to disassosciate.
It really is quite painfull to contemplate some of the neglect, abuse and torture of children that goes on... broken bones, intentional repeated burns for wetting the bed, and so on. If you must be involved closely with a case, it just doesn't leave you very quickly when your part is finished.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Not to the kid in question, it isn't.
And when a warlord diverts foreign aid to his own troops, knowing fullwell that his people are starving, he might as well be using his own hands - but he possesses the benefit of proxy, so keeps his hands clean.
Dowding... I know why there is so much starvation in Africa, but thanks for the lesson anyways. And I totally agree in regards to the warlords that are playing their little power games... but there really isn't much you can do about it without getting that "policeman" label attatched.
I see many "migrations" or lines of people trying to find food for their families... its just that there is none to be had either due to nature or the government.
Then there's the parent that kills his kid because he won't stop crying.
The two are not the same, and one does not dismiss the other.
I don't think people are more 'evil' now than they were in years gone by. Events get reported now where before there simply wasn't the coverage. All that has changed is that we seem to want to believe we are better than previous generations - in alot of ways that's the most untrue statement you'll find.
I actually agree with this. I'd tend to think its because the NEWS is highlighting things these days that were not broadcast in days gone by. More reported does not equal more frequent.
AKDejaVu
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Guys..this is Sweden, not Somalia.
What warlords or starving children in other countries has to do with what Horland posted I have NO IDEA.
This child was beaten and shaken almost to death..it is a heinous crime and the parents should be jailed for life...at a minimum. They certainly should never be allowed to have any more children. Chemically castrate the guy and then tie up her tubes.
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We had an article in the Sacramento Bee today about a 24 year old man having to be released from custody while awaiting charges of sexual abuse against his 7 year old son. The reason he was released was because the seven year old died- he was beaten to death by the mother's new boyfriend.
My wife has a friend who works for Child Protective Services here in Sacramento County and she says many kids are still in at risk enviroments because there's no place to put these kids once you remove them from the home. Definately a sad commentary on modern society, huh?
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This is why I say people should have to earn the right to have children and/or pets.
Being licensed/certified and suprise audited imo would help these people having children/pets willy nilly would have to take it a little more seriously.
Also child abuse should have many other law infractions tacked onto it to signify the abuse of power over the helpless, the human rights violations, not just the harm to a human being because it's not the same when they don't have any choice, can't defend themselves and can't get away.
throw the effing book at these people, and sterilize them.
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Yep.. it is Airhead.
The recent killings of two teen girls in Oregon City highlighted this too.
AKDejaVu
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The two are not the same, and one does not dismiss the other.
I wasn't dismissing anything. When a kid dies in horrific circumstances, whether it is in Sweden, Somalia, Britain, America or Iraq it's still terrible.
Curval:
Guys..this is Sweden, not Somalia.
Eh? How does that matter? Suffering is suffering is suffering. This case in Sweden elicits the same response from as the case just mentioned about the 7 year old boy, or babies starving to death in Iraqi hospitals as a political tool for Saddam.
Geography be damned.
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Sheeesh, another article in The Bee today- "State Loses Track Of Its Sex Offenders".... It seems bout 27 thousand of our 71 thousand sex offenders are failing to register with local police as sex offenders under the provisions of Megan's Law- oh, and another article talking about David Westerfield, who killed that seven year old girl in San Diego County. At least they sentenced that monster to death.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I wasn't dismissing anything. When a kid dies in horrific circumstances, whether it is in Sweden, Somalia, Britain, America or Iraq it's still terrible.
I agree... but you do realize that hardcase was dissmising it... right?
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Dowding
Eh? How does that matter? Suffering is suffering is suffering. This case in Sweden elicits the same response from as the case just mentioned about the 7 year old boy, or babies starving to death in Iraqi hospitals as a political tool for Saddam.
Geography be damned.
It matters because Hortlund is discussing a Swedish case.
If you want to chat about warlords and babies dying in Iraq start a thread about it...don't hijack Steve's.
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Babys are very frail things.
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Airhead: Sheeesh, another article in The Bee today- "State Loses Track Of Its Sex Offenders".... It seems bout 27 thousand of our 71 thousand sex offenders...
Many of them are non-violent types who stumbled onto the wrong website or gays convicted according to their states sharia.. er.. biblical laws proscribing "unnatural" consensual sex.
Also boys who turned 18 while their long-term girlfriend was still 17 and 11 months and technically a child incapable to give consent...
All those are treated same as multiple violent offenders/murderers - lives completely ruined. They have insentive not to register and law enforcement does not have much desire to waste resources on them - unlike real dangerous cases.
If I were you, I would not worry about missing ones much, like I woudl not worry about thousands of US children dying from the gun related casues - most of whome are really 16-18 year old "kids" blowing each other up with automatic weapons in gang turf wars.
miko
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If you want to chat about warlords and babies dying in Iraq start a thread about it...don't hijack Steve's.
Eh? I was replying to AKDejaVu's assertion that a baby starving to death is not the same as baby being starved to death. Hardly a hi-jack. It's not like I mentioned ungs (the word is scrambled to protect the innocent).
Besides, I wasn't aware I was in an area under the jurisdiction of the BBS police. I hope I get a fair trial for my crimes against BBS posting etiquette. ;)
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Dowding...
This is the BBS Police. We have your house surrounded...come out with your hands up!:D
ungs...ohhh gonna use that one.
Okay...see your point, I should have aimed that one at hardcase.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Many of them are non-violent types who stumbled onto the wrong website or gays convicted according to their states sharia.. er.. biblical laws proscribing "unnatural" consensual sex.
Also boys who turned 18 while their long-term girlfriend was still 17 and 11 months and technically a child incapable to give consent...
All those are treated same as multiple violent offenders/murderers - lives completely ruined. They have insentive not to register and law enforcement does not have much desire to waste resources on them - unlike real dangerous cases.
miko [/B]
Actually Miko in California we haven't arrested a homosexual man for sodomy in about 25 years or so. Also unless a girl is under 14 a boy under 18 won't be arrested for consentual sex with her. I agree the term "sex offender" is pretty broad here, but out of the 100,000 plus who have had to register since the inception of Megan's Law I'm confident about 95,000 of them were sexual predators.
As far as law enforcement not wasting resources arresting sex criminals, what's your source? Every cop I know despises a rapist or a pedophile above all other criminals, except a cop killer maybe. They love to lock them up.
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Anybody ever read the book "A child called It"?
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This story troubles me even more:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/01/08/caseworker.basementkids.ap/index.html
That someone could abuse a child or even another person for days, weeks or even months is horrific.
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Wow, this thread surely took an unexpected turn.
First I would like to ask all you "40 000 Children starving to death in Africa due to evil warlords" and "Saddam is worse because he is killing off his own population" -characters one thing.
Do you see a difference between
a) a Child starving to death because there is no food
b) a Child starving to death because an evil warlord has taken the food
c) a Child starving to death because a mad dictator wants big bombs instead of food for his people
and
d) a Child murdered by his/her own parent?
If you want, we can start some thread on how horribly unfair the world is because some people starve while others dont, or we can start a thread on how evil some men are, and how/why they are capable of holding their own ambitions as more important than the lives of their citizens.
But that is a completely different topic. This thread is/was about parents killing or abusing their own children. To me at least there is a world of difference.
Personally I dont think I can imagine a worse crime than that. And personally I would like to see those two parents I mentioned in my first thread ejected into space or something like that.
Maybe it is time to open up the 'ol history books and find some creative ideas for punishments.
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Careful Curval, I'm British and armed to the teeth with all kinds of house-hold appliances. My electric toothbrush is a 40,000 oscillations per minute monster! :D
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Sandman,
That was truely horrific.
Here is one that happened just recently in my area (MrFish's, FunkedUp's and GRUNHERZ's too):
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/12/28/MN203555.DTL
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WOW this thread hit’s home I am also from Sacramento. It looks like the 7yr old boys father may have been setup buy the xwife and boyfriend. Also as a former peace officer who worked mostly with special needs prisoners my last years on the job. And my wife who works in a prison with special needs prisoners. I can tell you every body I know on the job try’s desperately to keep these kind of people locked up.
Hear in California a few years a go we passed a little known law that when a mentally ill inmate with a violent record (all sex crimes prosecuted under current law are considered violent) prisoner finishes his time owed to the people. They are mandated to a state mental hospital until they are well. Scene 1998 I have only heard of 1 sex offender that has completed the program. They have built wings on to 3 state hospitals and are planning a new 1 to open mid state. Several of the prisons are adding wings for these special needs prisoners hear in the state. As far as sex crimes that are being prosecuted yes like any where else prosecutors do sometimes make mistakes. And some of the sex offenders out there have convictions from the 70’s when oral copulation was being prosecuted. But I must say most are not these type of crimes and we must find these people in or out of state to protect your children, wife’s ,mothers and brothers.
Aezeal What has the power to penetrate rock yet leave no scar?
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
Careful Curval, I'm British and armed to the teeth with all kinds of house-hold appliances. My electric toothbrush is a 40,000 oscillations per minute monster! :D
Oh No!! Ban electric toothbrushes!! :D
Juuuussst kidding!
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
Careful Curval, I'm British and armed to the teeth with all kinds of house-hold appliances. My electric toothbrush is a 40,000 oscillations per minute monster! :D
Yeah, like we're actually supposed to believe you own a toothbrush! :D
SOB
PS...Tardcase - go away.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Personally I dont think I can imagine a worse crime than that. And personally I would like to see those two parents I mentioned in my first thread ejected into space or something like that.
Maybe it is time to open up the 'ol history books and find some creative ideas for punishments.
I agree, it's an horrible crime....
but...
Instead of jumping in the "kill!! kill!! REVENGE!!! " mode, why if we start asking "Why this can be possible in a educated and modern country?", "what can be improved to prevent this cases?"
IMHO,
we can start to discard the cases of mental diseases of physical origin, for that cases there's almost nothing the society (us, believe it or not) can do other than medical treatments.
Punishment, or, better the deterrent that punishment represent, it's statistically still in discussion, as the differences of the effect of the death penalty (supposed maximum deterrent) or the absence of it, show minimal in reality.
But I will try to discard this argument too, because seem to not change too much the attitude of the citizens.
I think the first point to start it's to ask ourselves what is the difference between us (never never never capable of such act) and them.
For sure there's a big difference in age, we have an average of 30 years on our shoulders, are used to responsability, and we know (almost) how our strenght can damage others, we have self control, and know how to relate to other beings (even not-human beings).
Well... a lot of us, I hope. ;)
Them....
For sure they did'nt have the conception of the value of a child... of THEIR child.
Neither they are educated to treat a child (at the age of the victim the concept of action-reaction it's not yet developed, so a punishment or a threat are not perceived correctly, and more, the emotional control it's far far away to be gained).
Probably this two (almost) teen-ager, as in the western countries the "maturity age" it's delayed for economical reasons, were left alone to manage the baby, without help to understand completely the responsability they assumed (even if by mistake) by reproducing themselves.
This result, the child abuse, can be easily reduced to the value that the entire social organization deserve to the children, and we know perfectly that the value, since the children lost the value of "more arms for work", they changed in "more customers for the economy", as we can understand looking at the common objection about having a baby, that is in most cases related to the economical factor.
This can easily reduce the baby as an object (even an object of play for younger mothers, like a living doll).
Now, if we put in the melting pot the immaturity and the lack of responsability that we assumed for the parents, plus the probable difficulty to have enough money, or just the fact that in a period of the life that usually in our culture it's dedicated to fun and free time now must be dedicated to the problem of gaining enough money for the newcomer, and we have a risky situation, the one that determined the fact.
Let's start from this point.
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sad:(
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I have perfectly aligned, perfectly white teeth. They are like the white cliffs of Dover, dude. You need a pair of Oakley's in direct sunlight, just to look me in the face.
And the bristles on my brush would chafe any intruder into submission - I don't need no ungs! :D