Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ecliptik on January 08, 2003, 04:12:08 PM
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Anyone else think they utterly suck?
Head glued in one place, views traverse at a snail's pace. Your pilot must have a cement neck. No multiple stick or key sets, just a lame button mapping like some FPS shooter, which won't even allow you to map the same button to multiple functions used in different contexts.
The result is that your joystick hat can only be mapped to one plane of views (left, right, back left, etc), and you have to keep reaching for the keyboard for other views (front up right, so on).
It's horrible.
For a flight sim, the views are something a very high level of ease and freedom to customize are required, since in reality, nobody has to fiddle with a control panel and take their hands off of other, more important controls, just to move their head or eyes.
It's made me appreciate AH 10 times more. HiTech, THANK YOU for your beautiful view system and multiple stick sets! It puts Il-2 to shame!
It's too bad, I was really looking forward to finally getting my hands on Il-2, the most highly praised flight sim of all time, and it is worthy of much of that praise. The FM is nice, the gunnery and damage modelling are incredibly realistic, the graphics and sound are wonderful.
But coming from AH, the views turned me right off the game.
Anyone have any suggestions on getting around some of the view limitations? Sure, there is padlock, but I hate using padlock in AH, why would I like it any better in Il-2?
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thats the only real complaint I have about the game. the fixed head position sux. on some of the russian planes you can't read guages because your stick is in the way. the only way to read those guages is to due an agressive manuver that moves the stick out of the way. seems in real life the pilot would have just tilted his head to the side and peeked around the stick
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I use mouseview in Il2... and turned of vsynch... the former gives me ease of use and frees up a hat for more functions, and the latter speeds up the view transitioning (at the expense of image tearing).
But yes, compared to AH, the Il2 view system sucks more than a $10 hooker.
-SW
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you can adjust your "down view" so instead looking straight down it looks at a 45 degree angle. In effect it gives you an instrument view. I forget the line you edit but do a search its been posted. Or maybe snefens or SW can let ya know.
Theres no need to do crazy manuvers to read the guages. Thats just silly especially when you can use your mouse as well.
The "view" system in il2 is only "bad" is you compare it to ah. But some can that ah the "view" system is a bit too liberal.
You are wrong about the "hat" settings in il2.
for me
forward = forward up view
forward left = forward left view
forward right = forward right view
left = left view
right = right view
back left = back left view
back right = back right view
back = instrument view.
I have a seperat "up" button programmed so when I hold it I get all those views "up".
Mine are set exactly the same way in ah/wbs/wwiiol. Exactly the same.
Plus as SW said the "mouse view" in il2 is works well so does pan mode. I never use pad lock.
All these points you brought have been explained in several threads.
You need to get everything right in the keymapper for it to work right. I didnt find it overly difficult but AH was easier.
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The head positioning in AH is very UNrealistic. But, i believe it was done intentionally to attract more people to the game. being strapped to a seat with limited body movement will significatly reduce your available range of head movement. Insta-snap really cracks me up.. can you imagine the pain from moving your neck that fast for any length of time? LOL...
I prefer the il-2 view model, but it's not for everyone.
my .02
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adjust to it and it isn't so bad.
You're just spoiled with AH view system (too generous IMO)...
or course, so am I (spoiled)
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Originally posted by Moloch
being strapped to a seat with limited body movement will significatly reduce your available range of head movement
It isn't as restrictive as you think... most fighter pilots loosened their harness to twist their torso.
I didn't really use the keymapping function too much except to find out what keys did what, I use a 3rd party joystick programming utility (SGE for Saitek X36) because I have always had problems with any internal joystick/key mapping utilities (getting them to work, multiple key presses working, etc). So the way I did it was just a combo view- forward and down produced by one joystick button.. but again, this was done in SGE.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
It isn't as restrictive as you think... most fighter pilots loosened their harness to twist their torso.
twisting their torso and auto-fellatio are quite different :)
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Some of the newer planes have severly handicapped ranges of head movement compared to some of the older planes... they are perfect in terms of upper body contortion to see out the plane compared to the full body cast the pilots in Il2 have.
I don't wanna start a this verse that, but there's a good amount of room to move your upper body around to see out the plane in a WWII fighter... and Il2's rendition of a pilot's view point is very lacking.
-SW
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its not just il2, every other flight game has had a very restrictive view system except ah.
In the some planes in ah you head doesnt just move but get get outside the canopy.
A "lean button" in il-2 would be great so you can see around the canopy frame. Some of the frames seem huge in il-2 (190s).
If go from ah to il-2 the view system is a bit of a shock.
You get used to it though.
Remember IL-2 is a boxed game with a mulyiplayer component. If you keep it in perspective there really no comparison to AH in terms of gameply.
What I find strange is why newer games like IL-2 dont adapt things like the ah view system into their design. But you gotta admit some of the ah views are way liberal.
I dont play IL-2 anywhere near as much as I did ah. But thats just "main time". I have been in some Co-ops which rival any tod or ah event. Then again I have been in a few that sucked arse totally.
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I hate the view system too.
I don't mind limiting the rear veiw, but by not being able to program 6:00, I can't blend 3:00 and 6:00 to get 4:30, or 6:00 and 9:00 to get 7:30. I wouldnt mind if 6:00 was just a black screen, but now I have to undo 6 years of thumb-for-neck training?
Some compensation needs to be there to make up for the fact that even after logging thousands of hours of sim time, I can't track a moving target on screen as well as I would be able to in RL.
eskimo
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I agree Wotan, I don't need the back 'n forth/up 'n down.. I'd be happy to have a lean function (if you've ever played Soldier of Fortune or Return to Casle Wolfenstein, using q and e allowed you to lean/look around corners).
Just a few mins ago I was in a coop that (up to that point) had lasted ~20 minutes. Early war, so I thought it'd be good... nope... 20 mins flight both directions (I augered when I saw there were 3 LaGGs left, and 8 109s that would probably never encounter each other because they did not have intersecting flight plans)... if I wanted to just take a scenic tour, I'd do it offline...
Then there's coops that are fun as hell...
Just depends who is hosting.
-SW
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I have a seperat "up" button programmed so when I hold it I get all those views "up".
I've been trying to do that Wotan, but I can't seem to get the Il-2 key mapper to make it work. How did you do it?
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It should work by clicking in the area to the right of the description (ie: to the right of up view).. and then pressing the button you want it to be and it should take.
-SW
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No, I mean, holding a button which changes (for example), back left to back up left. In AH, I have stick sets that I toggle between with button 7 on my stick, one is flat views, one is up views. I'd like to do that in Il-2, by holding button 7 when I want the up views, but it seems like the only buttons Il-2 lets you hold down and use with other buttons are ctrl, alt and shift.
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wotan,
take up the russian plane (la5 I think is the one I'm thinking of. it has the 2 handed loop type stick). there is a guage right behind the stick handle.
no amount of tilting or turning your view is going to make that guage visable. you cant change your head position (just the direction you are looking), you can't change your guage position (obviously), in level flight the stick is directly between you and the guage. with out the ability to lean, or adjust your head position the only way to see that guage is to move the stick out of the way.
I don't want the dead six view. all I want is the ability to lean slightly (left, right forward, back,up, down) just a slight adjustment to see around stuff (plane hardware, canopy struts, maybe lean over to look down some)
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you maybe right..........
I never flew an elgay 7 in ah and dont plan on ever flying an elgay5-fn or an elgay 7 in IL-2 :)
I missed read what you were saying............
I have ch hotas.
on my pro throttle theres a hat switch that is easier to access then the one on my fighter stick. I use it for views. On the back of the throttle handle heres 3 buttons. the ones on the left and right I use for flaps. The center one I use as an up view. I just hold down for "uop" and use it with my hat. When I am done looking up I let go of the button.
I just mapped that button to "up" under "views". The hat switch is like wwiiols and wbs. Its frustrating to get the right directions to match the right view setting but it will get there eventually.