Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hanzo- on September 09, 2000, 12:52:00 PM
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Sometimes you use "jap" or "japs" , but these word are offensive at least most of the Japanese people feel disgusted. I think not a few people don't know this when they use these words.
"jpn" are "jpns" are official shoten term for calling Japan and Japanese. But some pilots in MA said these shoten words were not familiar to them. I ask these pilots to use "jp" and "jps" instead of "jpn" and "jpns".
I don't want to discuss "jap" is offensive or not. Because it is so for us not for you.
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people call canadians nucks and americans yanks...
...japanese too sensitive?
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Mu suggestion and what I use is ..
IJA or IJN
depending on expected type of a/c.
Cheers,
Rifle
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I'll try to use Jp in the future. I only use Jap because I am too lazy too type Japanese, not because I mean to insult people.
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Originally posted by funked:
I'll try to use Jp in the future. I only use Jap because I am too lazy too type Japanese, not because I mean to insult people.
When Funked wants to insult ya, he'll SPELL IT ALL OUT for ya!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mav
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don't get me started about those canadians!
Black Hammer
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Accord by Honda, from the people who brought you Pearl Harbour.
The reason the term (jap) has been around for 50 years.
Dog out........
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I cant remember ever telling anyone what to call a canadian. Pretty hard to make a case that Jap is offensive but Jpn is not. Do we have to call Brits Brts now? I think that this sounds more like personal tast than anything. If you want to rebrand yourselves as Jpns than good luck. I think that this is an entirly differnt matter than a racial slur. Or calling a present day German a nazi.
Zeros are Jap planes....sorry
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Bah...screw the Japs, Canucks and all those Limey bastards too! The worst tho', are those Lazy, White Trash Americans! Damned opportunists! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SOB
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LOL Mav. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Hanzo-:
Sometimes you use "jap" or "japs" , but these word are offensive at least most of the Japanese people feel disgusted.
This is a cultural thing. I found that Americans and (English-speaking-)Canadians are addicted to abreviations. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) More than other cultures I encountered IMO.
Look at it this way: Jap are the first 3 letters of "Japanese". Japanese shouldn't get offended about the use of it, because I don't think it's usually meant in a pejorative way in the AH environment.
After all, it seems to me to be a bit better than "redneck" or "frog" (I've been called the latter more times that I can count, even though I'm French only by ancestry, being a 12th generation Canadian, and the thought of eating frog legs disgusts me as much as it disgusts my English-speaking neighbours. Not saying I'm worse off, I'm not complaining. As they say, "Sticks and bones...", and besides my culture also has some not entirely kind words for describing people of other cultures, I am ashamed to admit).
I'm not saying I don't understand why it can be offensive, just suggesting another perspective. (After all, what word do your culture use to describe us Westerners? "Gaijin"? Is it always meant in a respectful way?)
That being said, I also have been using IJN/IJA (maybe because "Jap" has never been part of my cultural vocabulary), rifle's suggestion is a good one, though I never know which one to use when speaking of the Zero, the Niki, the Oscar, the Val or whatever, so I use IJN most of the time.
BTW back in WarBirds, during Pacific theater scenarios (or in the HA) I used to fly IJN/IJA. I love the Zeke, KI-61, KI-84. Bring the Ki-84 to AH!! Banzaiski! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (http://www.raf303.org/northolt) (First Polish Fighter Wing)
[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 09-09-2000).]
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I'll just call you Nippons.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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The "Japs" who fly this game need to get over it.
Jap is nothing but short for Japanese. Its not racially insensitive, its not an insult, or an ethnic slur.
This is a WWII flight simulator. People are going to talk about history, and refer to history, and like it or not, the JAPS are a major major part of WWII history.
Brits - Short for Britain, UK, the English
Jerry - Short for Germans
Yanks - Short for Americans
Ruskies - Short for Russians
Japs - Short for Japanese.
It would be a totally different matter if you were whining about someone saying
"Slant-eye"
"Nip"
"Gook"
"Rice Eater"
"Yellow Dog"
"Sushi"
"Samaruai"
etc, etc,etc, or some other totally insensitive, racial slur like that. But that's not what's happening.
Jap is here to stay, so deal with it. You have absolutely no reason to be offended by people abbreviating the name of your country.
[This message has been edited by BotaBing (edited 09-09-2000).]
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Join hands, sing folk songs, drink Coca Cola!!!
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Thank you for discussion about how you call Japanese by shorten term.
I wanted to let you knew how we felt when we were called "jap". I cannot understand why one claim he can use "jap" because he would'nt insult Japanese though he still knows Japanese people feel disgusted by this word.
Please think about that Japanese pilots never call themselves "jap" or "japs"
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Nor did/do American pilots call themselves Yanks, same with Germans and 'Jerry'. ;p
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Nor did/do American pilots call themselves Yanks, same with Germans and 'Jerry'. ;p
Those names are ok with me, just as long as you don't call us spaniards "spas" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Daniel, aka CyranoAH
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Originally posted by DrSoya:
After all, it seems to me to be a bit better than "redneck" or "frog" (I've been called the latter more times that I can count, even though I'm French only by ancestry, being a 12th generation Canadian, and the thought of eating frog legs disgusts me as much as it disgusts my English-speaking neighbours.
You can try it Cousin (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In fact it's like eating snails : almost Butter,Garlic, persil and texture (don't know how translate some words ) than frog/snail taste (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
btw frog taste == eel taste (anguille in french,if systransoft don't got the word good)
It's not the finest food but the wine you got with is fine enough (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and should compensate ...
(well the real challenge is some french cheese who are classified as biological warfare (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
like : http://www.univ-lille1.fr/~eudil/lillefr/boulaves.htm]http://www.univ-lille1.fr/~eudil/lillefr/boulaves.htm]http://www.univ-lille1.fr/~eudil/lillefr/boulaves.htm (http://www.univ-lille1.fr/~eudil/lillefr/boulaves.htm)
(http://home2.planetinternet.be/gysbrec4/images/fromage2.jpg) http://home2.planetinternet.be/gysbrec4/f1313.htm
have a look to ]http://www.fromages.com/index.htm] (http://www.fromages.com/index.htm) )
[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 09-11-2000).]
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GOD !
completly screwed my previous post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I've to live with it ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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FYI, when I print stories from articles regarding -323, I retain the word 'Jap' since rewriting the text books would be too politically correct, I mean, after all, they supress the historic past in Japanese highschools, (See 'The Rape of Nanking'), I certainly don't want to practice what they do.
Yank=Yankee
Canadian=Canuck
Japanese=Jap
Ripsnort=Rip
But, since I now know some folks take exception to this, I will try to keep to jps out of respect for those who are sensitive.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-11-2000).]
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I can respect that Hanzo- <S>
-Westy
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To be polictically correct, If it offends one person it is offensive. Hes only aksing us to not use what his country considers a slur.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Hanzo- I understand your position but what are we to do? I'm sorry but most of us are brought up being told what to call certain groups or genders and it's something that sticks with you your whole life. We can try to stop using certain words but where does it end?
I have tried for years to be inoffensive but have found I have better things to do in my life than try to keep up with the newest description of any race or gender.
It's next to impossible to keep up with the never-ending PC roadkill.
It just gets old being told .. we no longer like being called <fill in the blank> you must now call us <fill in the blank>.
Hanzo- please don't take this personal this is not an attack on you.
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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"
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Can relate to that Mighty! Just the other day, during an 8th AF and LW scenario, I gave a expected tout of "Die you Nazi Pirates", and the Moderator tells me to chill on the Nazi thing....LOL ! I can't even badger friends anymore!
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Originally posted by SOB:
Bah...screw the Japs, Canucks and all those Limey bastards too! The worst tho', are those Lazy, White Trash Americans! Damned opportunists! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SOB
our pride and joy... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mason22
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com) -- "shut up and FLY"
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Guys, I think that while you may not intend to use the term 'jap', offensively, it has, in the past, been used to negatively describe those of Japanese origin. I know it is easy to describe the planes in AH as 'jap' while typing; I have done it too. But think about what you might call the plane if a good friend, who was Japanese, was sitting beside you.
I dont know any Americans or Canadians who take offence to being called a canuck, or yank (maybe some do?), but I do know that most Japanese do not like the term 'jap'. Because of this, I try, out of courtesy, not to use the term. You, of course, are free to do as you wish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Whats that? Time on the soap box is up? Rats. *steps down from perch*
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
newguy
The Wrecking Crew
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Call me "Yank" me and my 13 cousins named "Bubba" will let ya know if we take it as an insult (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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To this day my Grandfather refers to the Japanese as "Nips". In fact he usually says something along the lines of "Them bastard Nips."
But that's because he fought them in Burma and his best friend was beheaded in a Japanese POW camp. Kinda makes you a little hostile, something like that.
Anyway, my uncle married a Japanese girl.....Grandad was quite pleased.....I remember him saying, "They steal peoples land, we steal their women, fair swap."
Anyway, back to the point. I'm from Britain therefore I'm a Brit (and proud of it). You're from Japan therefore you're a Jap. If you didnt wanna be a Jap you shoulda called the country something else.
Of course this all may be because the word 'jap' in Japanese means something horrible......remember my uncle? well his wife refuses to call him by his first name, John, because it means something like Dog I think.
See, even if we do spell it a different way it wont change how we pronounce it. So what's your beef? Be proud to be a Jap. No offense is meant, if it was we'd be calling you far worse things.
Swoop
[This message has been edited by Swoop (edited 09-11-2000).]
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Ya had a fellow pilot ask for help,
Ya didn't care. Swoop, that attitude will come back to haunt you. He asked politely from his heart, and you stomp on 'em. It ain't PC ya dweebs, it's called polite. It's called common decency. Fairplay? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
Any of that ring a bell? 'Course it does, and you know better. You'd never say Jap to his face in public. You know better. Why do you think it's OK to type it? 'Cause ya know ya can't be punched for your insults? Humm.
Listen. When someone tells you they're hurting, listen. Don't use it as an opportunity to preach your political ideas. That's just plain rude. Listen. This pilot is a friend on the playground. Treat his feelings just as you would in real life. Because, after all, he's asking a favor.
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Someone from Japan has publically said the Japanese find the word japs offensive. He has asked if you could use jps instead.
Is it much to ask?
I don't know the reason mabye the word Japs is associated with the political regieme of the time in the same way Nazi is associated with Germans of that period. Did stop to consider calling someone a Jap in japan may be akin to calling a German a Nazi instead of mouthing off about how the Japanese are being oversensitive.
Would it kill you to write jps instaed of jap?
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Is it too much to refrain from saying the word "Jap" because someone said they find it offensive?
You bet. There's no good reason to be offended by the word "Jap" - and I'm not going to run my life by the whims of every irrational person I come across.
It is impossible to keep up with which group of cry-babies is offended by which term, etc. etc.
You think Germans like to hear people using the word Nazi? No, and you would be mistaken if you thought you were going to get people to refrain from using the word "Nazi" in a WWII sim environment. NAZI isn't even an abbreviation of Germany, and still, it would be BS to aska people not to call German planes, military, pilots, etc of WWII Nazis.
It is totally ridiculous for a Japanese person to ask people in a WWII Flight Sim not to refer to Japanese planes, soldiers, etc as "Japs"
It is not offensive. Objectively, it is not offensive, its just an abbreviation.
If you find it offensive, they YOU are the one with a problem, not the person using the word.
It would be one thing If I was walking down the street, saw an oriental that I assumed was Japanese, and said "Hey why did you Japs attack pearl harbor" - there is some offensiveness in the tone and context, and out of manners, I might consider not saying something like that. Then again, if it was a 75years old Japanese man, who served in the military, I would definitely call him a Jap.
Likewise, when you are playing a WWII sim, people are going to talk in context, because that's what its all about.
There is absolutely no good reason to be offended by the word Jap.
I think that what people are offended by is the attitude that they perceive being behind the word - namely that Americans harbor deep-seated resentment for what Japan did in WWII, and you know what..they are right.
The Japanese attacked America, without any justification or provocation, and they lost. Tough toejam man...they are lucky we let them keep their toejamty island. The last thing I'm gonna do is change the English Language because they are ashamed of what they did, or because they are pissed off that they lost.
[This message has been edited by BotaBing (edited 09-11-2000).]
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Quote
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"If you find it offensive, they YOU are the one with a problem, not the person using the word."
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From henceforth Botabing i will refer to you as "the mental midget" which you shouldn't get offended at because you clearly are a mental midget and if you are offended it's your problem not mine.
P.S. Remeber if this offends Boatbing and you react angrily you are the one with problem not me i am just the person using the word.
A clarification for anyone else. Many allies in WW2 called the Germans Nazi's wheather or not they were associated with the National Socialist party people do not call people in the game enviroment people flying German planes Nazi's. All i suggest is that this particular term "Jap" may carry a similar stigma, the fact it is an abbreviation is irrelevent.
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Jap is an abbreviation for Japan, or, Japanese.
Its not derrogatory, its not slang, its not a racial epiteth, its an abbreviation pure and simple. It does not refer to any single factor other than nationality.
If you are offended by an abbreviation, then you have a problem, and you should consider changing your feelings instead of trying to convince 200 other normal people that they are doing something wrong.
Its really this simple.
Nazi is more offensive than Jap, and noone is asking people to quit saying Nazi.
Brit is just like Jap, short for nationality, and noone is asking people to quit saying Brit.
Jerry is short for Germany, and noone is asking people to quit saying Jerry.
Yank is short for Yankee, which culturally means Americans, and noone is asking people to quit saying Yank.
Ruskie is short for Russian, and noone is asking people to quit saying Ruskie.
If there was ANY doubt whatsover that JAP was offensive or improper, I'd be the first to stop using it. But in this case, its the whiners that have the problem, not the people using the word "JAP"
This is the perfect example of political correctness at its worst.
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japanese word for japanese nipponese short for japanese in nip no insult and no silly appology lol bite me and that goes for the rest of ya .
but southern americans are not yankeys you got a lesser chance of gettin hit if you call a sotherner a amazinhunk. hehe
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Tell someone from Georgia they are from the east coast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) That gets em every time.
AKDejaVu
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Honzo-
I served in the military and was in Viet Nam,
Okinawa, Japan and the Philipines. I understand everyones posts and am not expressing an opinion just a response to you. I personally respect your feelings and will be happy to do as I always have. I will refer to your countrymen as japanese!
Salute
Thunder
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Brit = British
Yank = American
Jerry = Germans
Ruskies = Russians
Japs = Japanese
Canuck = Canadians
Flips = Philipinos
Chinks = Chinese
Aussie = Australians
Are those really offensive?
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Some people do find a few of those quite offensive, but I am really not going to get in to a big argument with you about this botabing, as your mind is already made up. If you refuse to see how many of these western slang words are offensive to those of other cultures, then that is to your own problem. I just hope that maybe others will think twice before using certain slang. Thank you for bringing this to our attention Hanzo.
newguy
The Wrecking Crew
[This message has been edited by newguy (edited 09-11-2000).]
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Brit = No insult
Yank = No insult
Aussie = No insult
Why? Because we took ownership of these terms and made them ours. When the British coined the term "Yank" it was intended to be derogatory, but we took it and made it ours.
Canuck = I don't know about this one. Canandians out there?
Jerry = Derogatory. Mildly insulting, but not too bad.
Ruskies = Derogatory. Mildly insulting, but not too bad.
Huns = Racist.
Flips = Racist.
Chinks = Racist.
Japs = Racist.
The easy way to tell if a term is racist is to note what the proffesed racists use to describe people of that background. The terms I labeled as racist ARE the terms used by bona fide racists.
Note that every time the term Nazi is used on this BBS a toejamstorm is thrown about it. We use the terms German and Germans to refer to the people and their equipment. Your excuse for that does not hold water Botabing.
I am a Yank and proud of it, I am also an American and proud of it. Hanzo- is a Japanese and he is probably proud of it as well. If I were to call the Philipino lady who works at my company a Flip, I'd get fired and rightly so.
Japanese is not hard to type. If thats too much, then JPN or JPNS would work as well.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Flip is hardly racist. I was in and around the Navy base in Pt. Hueneme for several years, had many philipino friends, and that is where I learned the term. That is what the used on a daily basis.
Abbreviations are a part of life.
Racial epithets are rude and inconsiderate.
There's a huge difference between the two.
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(http://smilecwm.tripod.com/cwm2/puke.gif)
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Originally posted by BotaBing:
The "Japs" who fly this game need to get over it.
Jap is nothing but short for Japanese. Its not racially insensitive, its not an insult, or an ethnic slur.
It would be a totally different matter if you were whining about someone saying
"Nip"
HAhAA! NIP IS SHORT FOR NIPPONESE, YOU DUMB GUINEA!!! diddly THE JAPS ANYWAY!! CALL EM TOJO AND TREAT THEM LIKE THE MONKEY CHILDREN THEY ARE!!! WE SHOULD HAVE DROPPED FIVE MORE ATOM BOMBS ON THOSE FISH BREATH CAVE MONKEYS AND STOLE THE GOLD OUT OF ALL THEIR TEETH!!!
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Hanzo I was about to write that as adults we shouldn’t be worrying about this Politically Correct crap. Since we should all be happy in the fact that our differences make this world of ours a much more interesting place to live. Could you imagine if we all looked alike? We should celebrate our differences and just realize we are all just different breeds of the same species.
Then I read the post from that idiot the nipkiller and realized that we still need to educate some of our brethren with sloped foreheads such as nipkiller!
Hanzo most of us don’t want to insult you but I truly think that most people are tired of being told what they can and cant say. I am Italian and if someone calls me a W.O.P. it really doesn’t bother me unless he is trying to be insulting on purpose. In which case which case Ill ask him too say it too my face. This usually doesn’t happen cause its easy to type insults its another thing to say them to a man waiting to pound your face in. I don’t believe anyone is trying to hurt anyone’s feeling except for the slope headed bastard the nipkiller.
This isn’t the first time I have heard this complaint from a Japanese person and it might be a cultural issue that most non-Japanese do not understand. I will continue to use Jap Hanzo and I apologize ahead of time, but most of us are just too lazy to spell out Japanese.
Maybe we can all try to use IJN as was suggested earlier. Its 3 letters!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Frank "Chango" Smaltino
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Originally posted by Chango:
its easy to type insults its another thing to say them to a man waiting to pound your face in. I don’t believe anyone is trying to hurt anyone’s feeling except for the slope headed bastard the nipkiller.
YA LOOK AT YOU DO IT TO ME!!! YOU HYPOCRITICAL JAP LOVER!!!! AND YOU'RE USING THE DEROGOTORY ASIAN TERM SLOPE TO DO IT!!!! NOT ONLY ARE YOU INSULTING ASIANS YOU CALL THEM STUPID AS WELL!!!! PEACE OUT!
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Now I know there are more persons than I think who consider "jap" doesn't disgust Japanese and how difficult for a man to be forbitten using a certain term.
I want to say again it is the simple fact for me that the most of Japanese people are disgusted by "jap" word.
I am grad to have this discussion and some pilots get to use JPN or JP etc. instead of "jap".
Thank you again for serious discussion.
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Germans complains about being called Krauts lost most of their weight after WWI. The yanks have never had a right to complain about being called yankees (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). The French are pompous and strong willed enough to take Frogs. The Brits, well, they are Brits (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Aussie is another nickname. Japanese, I gather, lost the weight of their complaints after Pearl Harbour.
Just an abbreviation. As some people have pointed out, thre's a difference between abbreviations and derogatory language, like "gook" or "slant-eye".
Call me a Daines, Danese, Drunk, or whatever funny abbreviation you can come up with (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
The matter at hand isn't really about racism, as the abbreviation targets a population living in a certain region of the world, and not a race.
So, if said in a good hearted way, or neutral one, there's little need to be offended.
I'm also one of those people who dislike PC'ness, and I'll continue to use the abbreviation Jap for Japanese. Either that or Nippons. If it brushes some egos, maybe some tougher skin is needed.
We're all just people. Advanced hairless monkeys with an intelligence that appears to be the best in the animal kingdoms. Labels are only useful if we do not forget the basics.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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There are only 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who are A-holes, and those who are not.
NipKiller is obviously the former, and a coward as well.
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I don't want to see you on this board again. Don't think you can hide behind an anonymous account.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Actually Nipkiller I was referring to Neanderthal man which had a sloped forehead because of his small brian!! I hope this does not become a mudslinging contest nipkiller. None of us has a choice as to what we look like or where we were born and I just dont see the point slamming someone for it. I feel as humans we have more important things to deal with.
Frank "Chango" Smaltino