Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MrLars on January 10, 2003, 03:15:35 PM
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Just posted by Hotseat...
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14862
Not under NDA? Could get interesting.
Although I've never flown there, I hope things workout OK for the players still there.
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Wow, warbirds had been a part of my life for 5 years or so and I look upon it fondly. Would be interesting to see what HS does, always liked his attitude.
Time will tell.
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More than HS leaving, if his post is accurate.
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yeah i caught that too Kieran
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yup. I think it's time may have come.
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In another thread I got the impression 'others' would include 'Iceman'. Looks like Wild Bill will get his wish of killing Warbirds despite the line of cheerleaders who think he can do no wrong.
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revvin do you have the link for that thread?
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I'd suggest caution in predicting the demise of WB just yet.
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link:
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14862
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Originally posted by Kieran
I'd suggest caution in predicting the demise of WB just yet.
WB is like Boris the Blade from Snatch.
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Brand loyalty is an amazing phenomenon.
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It's definitely bad news. It seems ICEMAN will be leaving too. It looks like "shit or get off the pot" time for WildBill and iEN. Frankly, i don't trust him to develop WBIII into the game it can/should be.
Perhaps WildBill can get some people to replace HS and ICE and move ahead on coding and perhaps he will allow WBIII to be "modded" by the players. If he does that, then things could get interesting.
Having said that, Warbirds, and it's "Community", is/was like no other online game ever created. You can disagree with that statement if you like and i'll just say you are full of s*** too or merely ignorant. There will NEVER be another community like the one that was/is Warbirds. The unfortunate FACT is the game "Warbirds" was/is badly managed by every cotton-pickin' owner who ever had the reins of this great game. And that is a crying shame.
And i can tell you that most WB'ers are NOT interested in flying around in a "Mayhem Arena" packed with 600 players flying the Uber-Plane Du Jour. We have been there and done that. Most of us would rather quit online flight-sims altogether then repeat that old nonsense. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
Perhaps Aces High can assume the mantle of the Warbird's Squadron Select Series and add Early War aircraft, make it's "Ground War" into something less arcadish, and move it's Graphics Engine up to today's standards. That's what it would take of HTC to attract many of us long-time flight-simmers/WB'ers.
I wish SOME Game Developer would. After all the "advancements" in PC gaming over the last half-dozen years, online flight-sims haven't really advanced much at all. IL-2 looks good, flies bad, and has limited planeset/theaters, and is not really an "online" game. WBIII looks good, flies pretty good, has much potential for AI, "Strat", and WB's Events have no equal. But it's management sucks, as it always has. WWIIOL also has great potential, but it's "flying game" is severely limited and needs beacoup development to interest most WB'ers.
Can Aces High replace WBIII for all of us WB'ers?? The answer is: "Not for most of us". It's up to HTC to move Aces High to the "Next Level" to attract us serious simmers/fliers. I imagine HTC doesn't think they need to bother what with the large player-base HTC now has. And with less competition there is even less reason to invest the time and money to do so.
If WB's "disappears" i would be more than happy to "pay a little more" for a greatly improved Aces High. That's my challenge to HTC to attract players who feel as i do..........
P.S.
Funked, it's not about "brand loyalty" lt was always about the "Community" and personal preference in game design and direction. Nobody gives a hoot who owns/develops the games. It's the GAME that matters.............
Cabby
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FWIW Cabby, I don't see anyone posting the least bit of joy in the situation. Maybe I misread the posts.
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Originally posted by Cabby44
It's definitely bad news. It seems ICEMAN will be leaving too. It looks like "shit or get off the pot" time for WildBill and iEN. Frankly, i don't trust him to develop WBIII into the game it can/should be.
Perhaps WildBill can get some people to replace HS and ICE and move ahead on coding and perhaps he will allow WBIII to be "modded" by the players. If he does that, then things could get interesting.
Having said that, Warbirds, and it's "Community", is/was like no other online game ever created. You can disagree with that statement if you like and i'll just say you are full of s*** too or merely ignorant. There will NEVER be another community like the one that was/is Warbirds. The unfortunate FACT is the game "Warbirds" was/is badly managed by every cotton-pickin' owner who ever had the reins of this great game. And that is a crying shame.
And i can tell you that most WB'ers are NOT interested in flying around in a "Mayhem Arena" packed with 600 players flying the Uber-Plane Du Jour. We have been there and done that. Most of us would rather quit online flight-sims altogether then repeat that old nonsense. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
Perhaps Aces High can assume the mantle of the Warbird's Squadron Select Series and add Early War aircraft, make it's "Ground War" into something less arcadish, and move it's Graphics Engine up to today's standards. That's what it would take of HTC to attract many of us long-time flight-simmers/WB'ers.
I wish SOME Game Developer would. After all the "advancements" in PC gaming over the last half-dozen years, online flight-sims haven't really advanced much at all. IL-2 looks good, flies bad, and has limited planeset/theaters, and is not really an "online" game. WBIII looks good, flies pretty good, has much potential for AI, "Strat", and WB's Events have no equal. But it's management sucks, as it always has. WWIIOL also has great potential, but it's "flying game" is severely limited and needs beacoup development to interest most WB'ers.
Can Aces High replace WBIII for all of us WB'ers?? The answer is: "Not for most of us". It's up to HTC to move Aces High to the "Next Level" to attract us serious simmers/fliers. I imagine HTC doesn't think they need to bother what with the large player-base HTC now has. And with less competition there is even less reason to invest the time and money to do so.
If WB's "disappears" i would be more than happy to "pay a little more" for a greatly improved Aces High. That's my challenge to HTC to attract players who feel as i do..........
P.S.
Funked, it's not about "brand loyalty" lt was always about the "Community" and personal preference in game design and direction. Nobody gives a hoot who owns/develops the games. It's the GAME that matters.............
Cabby
why should they try? They already have 90% of the market and if WB dies they'll have 100% of the market. Unless you count FA3. I kinda do feel sorry for the mac guys though, poor bastards aint got no playground if/when WB augers....
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What Kieran said.
Cabby:
"Boris the Blade" was a character who wouldn't die even though he should have been dead many times. His other nickname was "Boris the Bullet-Dodger", and when he finally did die, it took a full clip of Desert Eagle .50 to finish him off.
Just like WB with all the stock crashes, horrific quarterly reports, all the dev teams coming and going and all the mismanagement by bellybutton clowns like Wild Bill. Somehow it stays alive, and invariably those who say it will die are wrong.
And brand loyalty is what keeps it alive.
It's not the dev team, that has changed too many times. They are now on the 4th generation.
It's not the software, that has also changed greatly many times.
And it's not the people in the community. The last few times I've been in a WB3 arena I saw maybe 2 people I recognized from the olden days. And a glance at AGW shows the bulk of the posters have "Registered" dates well after the original dev team broke up. The old WB community is long gone, except for a few diehards like yourself.
The only continuous thing has been the WarBirds brand name, and for some reason it is enough of a draw to keep the thing afloat despite all the changes in every other aspect of the product and player community. The phenomenon of brand loyalty.
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Could'nt help but take a swipe at AH you never change Cabby :rolleyes: Before you make such uninformed comments you might actually try getting some facts together. The arena's are far from being 'mayhem' and a damn sight more organised that what I've seen in Warbirds helped partly through the mission editor. Yes there are some uber planes flying round but many mid war ones too and some early way if it takes your fancy. Your beloved S3's have their alternative in Aces High with the TOD series which runs in Euro friendly times so it's not just the 'American Squadron Select Series' like it has been in Warbirds for years. As for community..well I was given a warm welcome when I arrived here and made many friends here.
This is a sad day for Warbirds, it feels like it's lost it's rudder and no ammount of player input will replace an experienced programmer but it looks like that's what Wild Bill is banking on. He's repeating the same mistakes over and over like some sick parody of 'Ground Hog Day' I seem to recall him trying to split the community over continental servers, driving the original dev team away and sellign half baked boxed games before and so we go roudn and round on the Wild Billy merry go round.
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Perhaps Aces High can assume the mantle of the Warbird's Squadron Select Series
TOD is just as good (and as big) as S3. Plus we have the official AH scenarios (big ones) like WB used to have back in the day. Plus CAP plus Snapshots.
add Early War aircraft
Here's the list of planes: http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/models.html
More early war stuff there than in WB3.
make it's "Ground War" into something less arcadish
It's no less arcadish than the one in WB.
and move it's Graphics Engine up to today's standards.
I agree that it could look a lot better, but HT has kept the graphics engine simple so it can run on low end machines. The minimum required PC for AH is a lot lower than its competitors, and that is intentional.
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Say Funked, do you know what the word nemesis means? ;)
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Quote:
"The minimum required PC for AH is a lot lower than its competitors, and that is intentional."
That's gotta change................
Quote:
"The arena's are far from being 'mayhem' and a damn sight more organised that what I've seen in Warbirds helped partly through the mission editor..""
That's merely your opinion. And it's wrong............
Quote:
"Your beloved S3's have their alternative in Aces High with the TOD series which runs in Euro friendly times so it's not just the 'American Squadron Select Series' like it has been in Warbirds for years."
"Euro-Friendly" is not "USA Friendly". WB's is a USA-based game. Our Euro friends have the "EMC's"..........
My opinions posted above are the opinions of many. They may be wrong or they may be right. But they exist nonetheless. For many of us............
C.
C.
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Damn cabby. Ive really missed your presence these past few years. Maybe not your perspective but mine: This community would have been better with you in it. I cant say that for alot of people who stayed on with iEN.
In any event, I hope you have enjoyed your time in WBs and I hope it can manage to continue for you and others who call it home.
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Having lived in both time zones, I gotta say that the EMC, while a quality event, never got anywhere close to S3 during my tenure. And I CO'd a few EMCs.
That being said, read the subtext. Vlasov is being too generous in asking HS to "tell more". That post is clearly a squeak about ol' Wild Bill calling the shots for over a year. Do the math.
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It's unfortunate but personally I waiting for the other shoe to drop...
Somehow over the last few years the thought of "community" got cut up into "communities" in rival sims. For some they are seperate entities. I would disagree. Flight sim junkies, be flight sim junkies regardless of the "game".
Flight sim junkies here are the same as there and as Funked pointed out there are ALOT of ex-WB'ers here. A good deal of my squad are ex-WB'ers. Granted they have oxygen tanks attached to their wheel chairs as I do...
The splendid help here pushes us up to our moniter five nights a week round about 6:30'ish making sure our pee bags are empty...
Can Aces High replace WBIII for all of us WB'ers?? The answer is: "Not for most of us"
If you qualify that with "those left now" I would agree with you. With a sizable portion of those remaining flyin Macs, that goes without saying.
Those that have stayed through all this are not going to be satisfied with ANYTHING in ANY OTHER online sim because of brand loyalty. Been too long.
What's left of the large community that was, is a small group of strident supporters that are "closed" to an alternative or handcuffed by their operating system. Can't do anything about that. That's just the way it is.
Personally, this is a fun place that rivals anything that took place a long, long time ago in the WB of old. Great people here, fun people here. Good scenario squads, with one in particular being top notch and a great bunch of guys.. But I'm predjudiced ;)
Holding on to what was, and ignoring what is, tends to make you spend your time NOT flying and dying.
I chose to fly.
Good choice in my view.
You would be a good addition to the TOD's and scenarios.
And if you forgot the feeling of your hair catching fire ?? Drop into the Main..:eek:
Nuff people there to keep your hands full. A throw back to "once upon a time" that are in WB the days of old..
Look for the low wheelchairs round 6:30'ish Pacific. Oldtimers in wheelchairs. Ain't nothin better.
If the oxygen bottles are full-up, your in for a tussel..
Even with those damm pale green tubes giving us boogers...
They're pickable, and gives one something to do while hitting the fridge ( with the help of the staff here ) inbetween sorties..
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And i can tell you that most WB'ers are NOT interested in flying around in a "Mayhem Arena" packed with 600 players flying the Uber-Plane Du Jour. We have been there and done that. Most of us would rather quit online flight-sims altogether then repeat that old nonsense.
Ohhh puuuleeez. I'm curious on how you got elected to speak for "most" of the WB community.
Guess what? "MOST" of the WB community is IN Aces High and has been for some time. Or at least the best of them. Whats left over there falls broadly into two groups: mac users, and the overly strident, militant flightsim Taliban hunkered down in their dusty little cave shivering around a meager fire swearing bitterly to go down fighting and never give in to that "other" game.
:rolleyes:
Wab
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I have to ask...
Just what did Hotseat do for WB? Get a new graphics engine and impliment "WB3"?
I am quite curious to see what game he is developing... and how that comes along. One that he started from scratch.
AKDejaVu
PS.. this is intended as a serious question... not a troll. Did Warbirds get better with Hotseat at the helm?
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Originally posted by Oedipus
lol. Crabby, meet Grizzly. Grizzly, meet Crabby.
Oed
Be fair. It wasn't (still isn't?) just Grizzly.
Some of us here flew all three games (four if you count a brief test of FA) starting with AW on GEnie. Some can move along with fond memories, some can never let go, I guess.
I had fun in all of them...OK, not FA..... and I enjoyed them while I played them.
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and what is ""Mayhem Arena"?
ramzey
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There are a few long time WB players that, I believe, would not be very welcomed in the AH world due to the fact they insulted the Simulation and it's entire community many times over.
If HTC needs to improve their simulation to the so-called great "Warbirds standard" to capture those players, I certainly hope they never do it!
Just my opinion
:)
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My opinions posted above are the opinions of many
LOL and many many more Warbirders are actually playing Aces High. Your opinion is full of toejam, you're bitter and burnt your bridges by continually slagging off Aces High and the community you're about as welcome as a fart in a space suit. Your post shows your ignorance of what Aces High is really like. I never said that the S3's should be played in Euro times only but if you got your facts straight you would understand the statement I made about the TOD series as it's run in Euro and US friendly times, two events in different timezones so that Euro squads are not excluded like they are in WB with just the EMC to fly in (although I will say the EMC's were fun) The S3's only cater for US players so it is very much the 'American Squadron Select Series'.
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you're about as welcome as a fart in a space suit
ROFL! I know that feeling ;)
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Yeah, the community would be better off with Cabby aboard.
We need another bitter, vitriol filled vessel of mal-adjustment around here.
He never brings anything to a discussion other than his own brand of apoplectic rage. I'm not exaggerating to be nasty, I've seen his posts over the last couple of years.
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yea great, welcome aboard psyco. please report to the chain locker.
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Some guys should STFU and take a long look at their own posts before critizising others about language or attitude. And perhaps those rambing about who would be and who would not be welcome in AH should reevaluate their own ability to speak for the AH community.
Tards.
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Chang is afoot overthere....
At least they're changing .
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No-one's trying to speak for the community, as far as I can see. That would be impossible.
But everyone is welcome to their own opinion, surely. And when you get called a communist for expressing views that someone might not agree with, you are not going to respond with chocolates and flowers.
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Hortlund> Cabby would be more than welcome if he could stop having a dig at the community at every oppurtunity. Take a look at AGW and the same morons who jump on anyone who mentions AH even when comparing features they'd like to see in WB. If those players would drop the BS and give Aces High ago then I'd be happy to help them out but if they are just going to visit a bulletin board of a sim they don't play and have another pop at the community here then no I won't welcome them and say "hey you're right we all suck!" :rolleyes:
That's all by the by, those that think Warbirds is dead are wrong..it's just pining for the fjordes.
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Alan you've not helped yourself with the posts in the O-club
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Does it really matter ? I mean, there's this community, and then there's Aces High .
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Unfortunately, this went about the way I thought it would, though perhaps a little nicer.
Cabby, speaking for myself only, I have absolutely no problem with anyone flying this sim... but then, what would it matter if I did? I don't own the game. If WB goes under (and that's a big "IF" right now) we will see an influx of players, bet on it. This can go well, or it can be painful, but it is going to mainly depend on how they come over. If they come in with an open mind, and are ready to adjust, it will be cool, and they will find many friends to help them out, old squaddies, and some pretty interesting events. If they come in swinging their elbows around like you just did with your first post, it won't be pretty and will fulfill the prophecy about our community you seem to hold. Just sayin'.
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Revvin, i'm sorry mate but your opinion about S3s is uninformed and biased at that.
S3s are PRIVATELY ORGANIZED event. It is designed, maintained and ran by 3 guys, and they are under NO obligation to iEN or its customers.
If you desire to have an event where 3 guys fly in circles naked around the vulcano at 4 am in the morning, you are welcome to it as well. Why would you be obligated to accept someone who doesn't want/can't do exacly the event you designed ?
S3s were ran in Euro friendly time while back. One event when at 3 pm EST on sundays and it was a disaster.
- connections were toejam.
- attendance addition by Euro squads did not offset the attendance losses that were imposed on US squads.
So Janitors decided not to do that anymore.
It's their event, it's their call.
If you don't like it, you are welcome to start an S3 on your own.
However, don't you dare to berate their work with the stupid stereotypes like "American series....". There are quite few europians who actually decided it was better then sleep and do fly at the hours it happends. If it isn't good enough for you, then like i said, start your own.
Else i'd like to register a complaint about the time when Primer League games are played. I am not ready nor avaiable to watch them at 3 pm EST, please reschedule !!!
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Perhaps you have a comprehension problem but I never berated the S3 event, what I did do was point out it was equalled by the TOD series in AH which runs in Euro and US friendly time so that not just american squads can take part. As for Euro squads not wanting to take part...many take part in the EMC's alongside non squad affiliated pilots so there is/was the interest there. I suggest you unwad your panties and re-read this thread and see who came here berating another sim.
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Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL! I know that feeling ;)
Uhmm, Beetle, this isn't about you.
Cobra
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I can only speak for myself... I am glad that WB exists... the few guys that are left there are the, as was said "taliban" of simmers... hunkering down in their cave knowing that they are the true believers and that "fun" is an evil.
I don't want the majority of em over here constantly whining for an RPS and axis vs allied 'realism'. I also think mac users need a place to whine.
The enemys of variety, parity and fun are hiding out in WB... gawd I hope they stay there.
lazs
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Well Hortlund since your attacking reply was partly in response to my post I believe I need to bring to you, more clearly, the substance of that post.
To ensure no one would take my post as speaking for the entire AH community, I typed the words "I believe". This, of course, means my belief, and noone else's. Meaning I am not speaking for the entire AH community. I wanted to make that clear, but apparently you missed it.
Then to amplify the fact I do not speak for the entire AH community, I typed, "In my opinion" at the end of my post.
Now what "In my opinion" means is that it is my opinion and my opinion only and may or may not be the opinion of others. It fruther points out that I do not speak for the entire AH community. So I hope this helps you understand my post alittle bit better.
It is really too bad you decided to attack the entries of this board before having a true understanding of the poster intentions.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Have a nice day! :)
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Warbirds will go on but for how long? what impact will another change of team do to it? it set Warbirds back quite far when Wild Bill drove the original team away and since then mismanagement by iEN (not the dev team) has meant Warbirds has slipped behind the competition with the team struggling to develop with the resources they were given. From HS's cryptic message more of the dev team seem to be ready to leave and I think perhaps one will be Iceman judging from comments in another thread. Will they go and create their own WW2 online sim? if so how many of the WB faithful will call it a day and go and play their sim as happened with Aces High and World War II Online? Even if Wild Bill has or will get quality replacements for the departing team members (and I mean those with real software industry experience not well meaning player contributions) how far will WB's development fall behind whilst they get to grips with the WBIII engine after all HS often blamed Hitech's code for slow WB development. After all those possibilities WB could then face Wild Bill pulling the team off WB development to work on other products as he did for the final few months of 2002 and he's already stated his wish to make an Iraqi tank game and a snowboarding game as well as an RPG.
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I always saw Hotseat as a figurehead. He was pretty good about taking credit for anything good and even better about placing blame for anything bad.
Seems to me this is just more of the same.
Honestly, I don't remember those types of posts when HT and Pyro left.
AKDejaVu
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It's been a while so I downloaded the latest WBIII for a look offline. Is it just me or do the planes all still feel like your flying through molasses?
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Roll rate seems 'off' for all the planes there but I don't have a pilots license so can only observe FM differences between sims and the majority handle in a similar fashion to AH etc so I'll go with the majority. It's explained by the WB team as simulating stick force etc but I recall a thread many years ago when it was first introduced as being a measure to stop microwarps from stick stirring etc which plagued WB for a long time.
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If WB goes down I sincerely hope you AH old timers treat the WB refugees better than you treated us Air Warrior refugees. Many a time I had to take long walks along the beach with other AW pilots, trying to calm each others' nerves and console each other, while you Aces High guys enjoyed yourselves in the Main Arena.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Many a time I had to take long walks along the beach with other AW pilots, trying to calm each others' nerves and console each other, while you Aces High guys enjoyed yourselves in the Main Arena.
Now thats funny. Thanks Airhead...I will be sending you the bill for monitor cleaning.
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Originally posted by sling322
Now thats funny. Thanks Airhead...I will be sending you the bill for monitor cleaning.
Oh yeah.
dh