Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dago on January 15, 2003, 03:43:11 PM
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My sincere sympathies to the family of the Police Officer who lost his life at the hands of a knife weilding terrorist. I do hope in the future, they send the Police in with a weapon if they perform raids in the future, they certainly have a right to defend themselves.
Dago
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If he had seen the business end of a HK MP5/10 I bet he would have dropped his knife.
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Originally posted by weazel
If he had seen the business end of a HK MP5/10 I bet he would have dropped his knife.
Reading the article on the BBC's webpage, it sounds like the officers were taken by surprise when their guard was down. I agree though, it's too bad that the officers didn't have any weapons to subdue the guy faster, before he could hurt all 4 officers.
The article I read made this operation sound like a raid. I know British police (London Metropolitan Police at least) do have special armed response cars equipped with MP5s. Why wouldn't they have sent more heavily armed officers in if this was some kind of anti-terrorism raid?
Can any UK guys fill me in on this?
Always a sad day when a cop gets hurt doing his job.
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He was stabbed long after the initial break-in during the raid. The prisoner was being put into one of the paper cover-alls, and he used the opportunity to grab a kitchen knife. The Special Branch detective was not wearing stab proof armour since he was not part of the initial break in team (which was equipped in that way).
But nice of you to score points only 24 hours after his death, in some on-going feud regarding gun ownership, dago. I thought you weren't interested in the gun ownership laws of other countries? No need to add,
My sincere sympathies to the family of the Police Officer who lost his life at the hands of a knife weilding terrorist.
When you follow it up with,
I do hope in the future... they certainly have a right to defend themselves.
Your intentions with this thread are crystal clear - no need for the clumsy use of smoke and mirrors.
"I'm soooo sorry he died..."
Pur-leaze. My eyes are incapable of rolling to an extent worthy of this thread.
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Tarmac - people are asking just that question, considering raids of this nature in the past have generally been armed.
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Weasel...by the same token, if the same raid would have taken place in the US ALL of the cops could be dead.
The terrorists could have gone down to the local Bass Pro Store and picked up one of them MP5s or any hunting rifle, for that matter.
Fortunately the best they could find was a knife. This fact probably saved the lives of the other cops in the raid.
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Originally posted by Curval
Weasel...by the same token, if the same raid would have taken place in the US ALL of the cops could be dead.
wrong curval , if it happened in the US the bad guy would be dead and the cops would be on trial for violating his civil rights
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LOL MP5's are NOT for sale at the local Bass Pro!
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Originally posted by Dowding
Tarmac - people are asking just that question, considering raids of this nature in the past have generally been armed.
Thanks for the answer, Dowding. Didn't mean to sound like I was trying to turn this into a gun debate and overlook the real issue: that a good man is dead.
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Originally posted by K98k
LOL MP5's are NOT for sale at the local Bass Pro!
Well, then where is Weasel suggesting that I could get one to protect myself in the US?
I did also a say "or any hunting rifle...for that matter"...you must have missed that.
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Using this subject to score points is pretty crappy.
News24 said earlier that they'd already arrested and cuffed they guy. They then removed the cuffs to take some forrensic (DNA or fingerprint I guess) samples and the suspect tried to make a break for it, managed to fight his way into the kitchen and grab a knife. The DC who died was not a front line officer for this raid and consequently was not wearing any sort of body armour, he was just trying to subdue a suspect who'd gone mental after already being arrested.
Gatso
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Sorry gatso..you are right. Knee jerk reaction.
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And when a punk pulls a knife he should see the business end of a gun...in this case one spitting lead at 650 RPM.
Originally posted by Curval
Well, then where is Weasel suggesting that I could get one to protect myself in the US?
I did also a say "or any hunting rifle...for that matter"...you must have missed that.
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Originally posted by Dowding
He was stabbed long after the initial break-in during the raid. The prisoner was being put into one of the paper cover-alls, and he used the opportunity to grab a kitchen knife. The Special Branch detective was not wearing stab proof armour since he was not part of the initial break in team (which was equipped in that way).
But nice of you to score points only 24 hours after his death, in some on-going feud regarding gun ownership, dago. I thought you weren't interested in the gun ownership laws of other countries? No need to add,
When you follow it up with,
Your intentions with this thread are crystal clear - no need for the clumsy use of smoke and mirrors.
"I'm soooo sorry he died..."
Pur-leaze. My eyes are incapable of rolling to an extent worthy of this thread.
Dowding, I didn't see it as Dago trying to score points on a gun issue. He didn't even say guns, he said weapon....
Anyway, I didn't see an attempt to flame a gun issue.... but I can't read his mind.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Tarmac - people are asking just that question, considering raids of this nature in the past have generally been armed.
So Tarmac can ask why they didn't have weapons and Dago cannot mention that he hopes they will be sent in with weapons in the future?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Tarmac - people are asking just that question, considering raids of this nature in the past have generally been armed.
Sounds like more than just me and Dago are asking that question.
My post was meant more as "an officer is dead, what can we do about it" than a "give everybody mp5s" rallying cry.
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Well, then where is Weasel suggesting that I could get one to protect myself in the US?
I give up where is he suggesting that?
and no, I didn't miss the hunting rifle bit.
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But nice of you to score points only 24 hours after his death, in some on-going feud regarding gun ownership, dago.
Your very wrong here Downing. My best friend was a Police Officer killed in the line of duty, and I still mourn his loss. He was a very decent guy, and left behind a wife and three young girls.
I have no animosity toward your country, though I dont really care for Beetle, and I am not in the habit of jumping into the gun debates. You can check all those threads and I dont think you will find me in them, at least none that I recall.
I just do not like to hear someone died if it is the result of a poor decision by those not at risk, like superiors who never leave a desk. I was afraid that might have been the case in London. I will always hold in contempt Bill Clinton and Les Aspin for sending in Army troops to Somalia without proper armor support. Eighteen fine young men died, most of who would have lived if the capture raid they were on had Bradley Fighting vehicles involved.
Dago
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No offense to the officer or his family, but you gotta love the political nature of this.
If the officer had died while storming the house of some other type of criminal, this would not have made the international press.
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Dago - then perhaps I got the wrong end of the gun...errr... stick. It just sounded like you were using it as an excuse to score points. My apologies. But the police do have the right to defend themselves, with lethal force if necessary - I thought that was pretty obvious, and therefore your post looked like a troll.
Tarmac - I wasn't accusing you of stirring or anything.
Nuke - see above.
BTW, only one British policeman has been killed in the line of duty from stab wounds in the last five years. The biggest killers are either getting run over, or crashing the pursuit car in a high speed chase.
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In Dagos defense Dowding you seem to be getting a little hysterical about this UK/US thing, which you clearly had reproached Beetle for recently. Your a nice guy Dowding....maybe time to give the benefit of the doubt.
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Heh, that's probably true also, aztec. I don't feel hysterical though, even if it comes across that way. ;)
Anyway, I have apologised.
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With the criminal elements in every country becoming every more violent I do not understand a policy that keeps law enforcement officers unarmed. Were none of these officers armed? What is the policy for using deadly force in this type of situation? Was the terrorist killed? Did police policies of non-violent arrest contribute to this situation? None of this makes sense to me. Why did a good man have to die?
Shuckins
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A little sensible "knife control" would have worked... say, the ban of all knives with a blade of over 1/32" thick except at "knife clubs". It is a thing that is long overdue in such a civilized country.
curval.. if you wish to take an anti gun stance you should learn all you can about firearms before arguing with people who know a great deal about em... problem is... there is an extreme variety of firearms and uses for them and... by the time you bother to learn about em you will develop a like for em.
lazs
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Shuckins - I think the problem is that as one of the Special Branch detectives, his job started after the suspects had been arrested and restrained. They had been cooperating peaceably until that point, so I guess it took them completely by surprise. The only answer would be to equip anyone who enters the scene with body armour and keep suspects restrained at all times regardless of behaviour. I think it's also important to remember that these were just suspects - there was no attempt to escape and they going along with the police voluntarily. That must have thrown them off guard.
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dowding... I think you have hit the problem.. there should probly be a law that criminals that intend to resist with deadly force must anounce their intentions 24 hrs in advance.
lazs