Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hawk220 on January 16, 2003, 12:25:43 PM
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you know Bush is in the White House with a cigarette and a warm washcloth after hearing this news.. now he can go play war and make his daddy proud.
U.N.: Inspectors find empty warheads in Iraq
Chief U.N. inspector says situation 'tense, dangerous'
Thursday, January 16, 2003 Posted: 1:14 PM EST (1814 GMT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.N. weapons inspectors Thursday found a number of empty chemical warheads and another one that is still being evaluated, and the warheads are in "excellent condition," according to a U.N. spokesman.
Inspectors also visited private homes for the first time Thursday, as the chief U.N. inspector described the situation in Iraq as "very tense and very dangerous."
A team from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) made the warhead discovery at the Ukhaider ammunition storage area, where they went to inspect a large group of bunkers constructed in the late 1990s.
The inspectors found 11 empty 122 mm chemical warheads and one warhead that requires further evaluation. The warheads are similar to ones imported by Iraq during the late 1980s, the spokesman said.
The UNMOVIC team used portable X-ray equipment to analyze one of the warheads and collected samples for chemical testing.
Earlier, U.N. team searched homes owned by Iraqi scientists in the hunt for evidence of weapons of mass destruction, Iraqi officials said.
The homes are located in the Al-Ghazaliyah district in Baghdad and are not listed as declared sites by Iraq, suggesting that inspectors may have been working on an intelligence tip.
Blix: Iraq violated import ban
After meeting with European Union officials in Brussels, Belgium, chief U.N. inspector Hans Blix told reporters Iraq has illegally imported arms-related material as recently as 2002, but it is not yet clear whether the material is related to weapons of mass destruction.
"It's clear they have violated the bans of the United Nations in terms of imports," Blix said. The imported items include missile parts, CNN's Richard Roth reported.
U.S. officials reacted positively to Blix's comments.
"The evidence is mounting, and while inspectors went in with a stiff upper lip it is now more clear by the day that things are not going nearly as well as the public has been led to believe," one official said.
President Bush, in a speech Thursday in Scranton, Pennsylvania, repeated his warning that time is running out for Saddam Hussein to comply with demands to disarm.
"So far the evidence hasn't been very good that he is disarming. And time is running out." Bush said. "At some point in time the United States' patience will run out."
"We try our best to make the inspections effective," Blix said, "so that we can have a peaceful solution." But, he warned, "the other major option, as you know, is the one we've seen taking shape in the form of an armed action against Iraq."
Diplomats: Iraq must be 'proactive'
Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, are due to visit Iraq next week ahead of their report to the U.N. Security Council on January 27. Blix has said he plans to tell Iraq to submit new weapons evidence.
After the talks in Brussels with Blix, the EU's foreign policy chief Javier Solana expressed his solidarity with the chief weapons inspector.
Solana told reporters: "He (Blix) has conveyed to me his concern that the cooperation with Saddam Hussein, the cooperation with Iraq, is not sufficient.
"We are demanding a more proactive cooperation from the regime of Saddam Hussein so that the world, the Security Council, the inspectors, are convinced that he has disarmed from all weapons of mass destruction."
ElBaradei, speaking after two days of talks with Russian officials, also used the term "proactive" to describe what is required of Iraq.
"What they ought to do is come forward" provide documents or physical evidence to support the conclusion that the country no longer has weapons of mass destruction, he said.
"This kind of proactive approach is not there. And that's why I said they need to shift gears," ElBaradei said. "As long as we can continue to go around the country and come to the conclusion, 'well we are not 100 percent sure,' this is not good enough for the Security Council."
There remains a dispute over a timetable for the inspections.
The White House wants the January 27 report from Blix and ElBaradei to be a major threshold for deciding whether Iraq is complying with the U.N. demands. Blix has cited previous U.N. resolutions and said he will report to the Security Council again in March.
A senior White House official said Thursday that, "in a climate of delays, resistance and obstruction we don't see the value" in indefinitely extending the work of the inspectors.
In another development, sources said that during a meeting Tuesday, U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice pressed Blix and other senior U.N. officials to demand that Iraq allow certain scientists and their families to travel outside the country for interviews about weapons of mass destruction programs.
The move would reflect a more muscular interpretation of U.N. Security Council resolution 1441, which said that inspectors "may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, (and) may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq."
To date, U.N. weapons inspectors have only asked Iraqi scientists whether they would be willing to be interviewed outside of the country, or interviewed without the presence of Iraqi government representatives. None have agreed so far, U.N. officials said.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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So they have found 11 empty chemical artillery shells, the U.S. will attack them soon.
Once the troops go in they will "find" many more "full" shells...being deployed against them, and the body count of dead Americans will be huge.
But hey....it's all good.
Chimpler will have his war, the oil companies and the Carlyle Group will get richer rebuilding Iraqs destroyed infrastucture...and you can all continue to have cheap fuel for your gas guzzling SUV's.
Make sure you look the other way as the body bags are unloaded at Andrews AFB so you can continue to "feel good" about it.
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hey , the USA can use the 50,000 body bags they have left over from the gulf war, you remember the "gulf war" , THE MOTHER OF ALL BATTLES
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Make sure you look the other way as the body bags are unloaded at Andrews AFB so you can continue to "feel good" about it.
Perhaps it would be a better strategy to look the other way while Hussein produces WMD in violation of a dozen UN agreements, while Islamic terrorists search the world for someone to sell them WMD?
Offer an alternative to the chimp's policy.
ra
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other than halliburton stock & oil futures (which is probably already too late) how am I going to profiteer off this 'war'?
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weazel ur an idiot .
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You better hope weazel is an idiot. Sure Saddam won't use those weapons he has cause...uh..tell me again exactly WHY he won't gas and bio, hell who knows, maybe nuke some Amercian kids? They will be in easy reach, he wil have nothing to loose, he probably has made plans for his escape. He may be suicidal and decide to take some ppl with him. Tell me where weazel is in error in that scenario.
HC^2
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"Tell me where weazel is in error in that scenario. "
He is falling into the trap of grossly over-estimating the capabilities of our opponent, something which is practically an American tradition in recent years.
I think the residents of places like Tel Aviv have a lot more to worry about than well-equipped American soldiers on the battlefield.
J_A_B
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::: Personal attack safeguard ON :::
Some of you are... wait.
Most of you... no.
I think that you... damn.
Blow it out your... ARGH!
(PS: You guys are stooopid.)
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He is falling into the trap of grossly over-estimating the capabilities of our opponent
I thought it was Bush who painted Saddam as a an evil dude with weapons of mass destruction that was a threat to our way of life? Isn't that the whole premise of why we're taking him out?
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So what's your solution to Iraq, Weazel? Dress Saddam down in a scathing, sarcastic speech? I'm interested to see if you can offer up anything other than venom and hatred towards Bush. We sure haven't seen anything else from you in months. It seems like you don't care what happens, as long as you get to bash Bush and get your kicks out of it.
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Slaps Lance.....Noooooo. The bush administration wants to take him out because, hmmm, give me a sec, uhmm. Nevermind.
Seem to have lost count of the original reason.
Oh wait there it is. Osama Bin Laden attacked america and GWB is sure that somehow Saddam is linked to him.
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And for those that wanna argue that. GWB looked long and hard and tried to implicate him with the attack.
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It is clear that US Oil companies are pressuring Bush to remove Saddam Hussein because he would never ever sell oil to Amreeka.
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Sodomy Insain has been violating the terms of surrender since he surrendered back in 1991. The fact that the Clinton Admin allowed this bullsh*t to continue for 8 years is reason enough to end this foolishness now. And oh yeah, Sodomy has been shooting at allied aircraft since he surrendered. When Sodomy kicked out the weapons inspectors Clinton blinked and passed the up the chance to do something usefull. Today, the problem is being resolved and hopefully, the Iraqi people will finally be able to propser instead of seeing their GNP spent on sodomys statues and palaces.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It is clear that US Oil companies are pressuring Bush to remove Saddam Hussein because he would never ever sell oil to Amreeka.
Yes he'll prefer to f#$king starve.
Shit. If you want oil prices to go down - let Iraq export his oil anywhere.
But this is not enough. The baby wants it all. American control over Iraqi oil resources can be a beautiful instrument of political pressure. Countries like Saudi Arabia will be unable to threaten US with their oil expotrs. Russian economics, as well as some other oil exporters will be in great economical trouble since US control will drop oil prices as low as possible.
The most frightening thing is that agressors don't need any decent casus belli to just come and get what they want. The reasons for the upcoming war are so ridiculous that even 1999 brainwashing campaign with poor Serbs looks quite reasonable.
Weazel, they will never let anyone know the real losses in this war.
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." — Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II
Couldn't resist from taking this quote from a hallucinational site about WTC attack...
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What do you know about chemical warfare?
Any idea how many casualties (1) VX loaded shell fired into a group of soldiers not in full MOPP 4 posture will cause?
How long does it take an individual soldier to get into full MOPP 4 posture?
Do you have any idea how a person exposed to one of these agents is treated medically?
How about blister or biological agents?
Final question, it's probably clear to Saddam that he's going to die this time....no ands, ifs, or buts about it...if he has any chance of inflicting the largest amount of casualties on U.S. soldiers do you think he will grab the opportunity to do so?
Like I said, make sure you look the other way when the body bags come home...
But hey...it's all good, you will continue to get cheap gas for your SUV, just remember everytime you fill up the tank to give thanks that it wasn't you who had to pay the ultimate price for President WASA's greed.
Originally posted by john9001
hey , the USA can use the 50,000 body bags they have left over from the gulf war, you remember the "gulf war" , THE MOTHER OF ALL BATTLES
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Yeager, think about it. Those aircraft are violating Iraqi airspace, if this were happening to the US be damned certain there would be firing as well.
Saddam has stated he does not recognize the no-fly zones.
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Ahh yes hidden losses in afganistan. What are we up to know boroda, last time I checked that russian scam of a websight, US had lost over 60 airplanes shot down and three thousand soldiers killed. That was half a year ago. Should be twice that by now. Probably up to 1000 planes destroyed and 20,000 troops killed but the facist american administration is hiding all that.
Someone is one hell of a fool here and it aint me.
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Ping think about it. Iraq surrendered.
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The bleeding heart Libs say there ARE no weapons of mass destruction.So exactly what WMD are we going to be faceing in Iraq?I mean ya cant have it both ways.Hes got em or he doesnt.Alot of evidence leads one to think he does.We KNOW for a fact he had them and he still refuses to say what happened to them other than they were destroyed.No statement of where they were destroyed.That could probebly be verified.But regardless,they dont have any cause the in the know types in DC and Berkley all say its so.
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MOHAMMED SAID AL-SAHAF, Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq, said the comprehensive sanctions imposed on his country, now in their eleventh year, amounted to genocide. They constituted a flagrant violation of the Charter and of international law and international humanitarian law. That had been confirmed by reports of United Nations agencies and humanitarian and human rights organizations, the most recent being a working paper adopted by the Subcommission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights at its fifty- second session held in Geneva from 31 July to 18 August this year.
The United States and British claims that the “oil-for-food” programme alleviated the impact of sanctions against Iraq proved baseless when set against United Nations figures, he said. Of the $31.6 billion worth of oil exported by Iraq since the start of the programme, $9.5 billion had been allocated to the Compensation Fund in Geneva and $1 billion for United Nations administrative expenses. He said $8.3 billion had been disbursed for purchases to cover the needs of the Iraqi people. There were "floating and semi-frozen allocations" for certain needs of Iraq amounting to $10 billion that had not been disbursed because of the obstructions placed by the United States and the United Kingdom. "Such egregious obstructions" had resulted in 1,173 contracts for construction materials valued at more than $2 billion being put on hold.
He said the Security Council, in applying comprehensive sanctions against Iraq, had gone far beyond the purposes and principles of the Charter, so as to “turn itself into a cover for perpetrating a policy of genocide against an entire people”. His country was being subjected to "a continued daily aggression by American and British aircraft" in the no-flight zone imposed on Iraq by "a unilateral decision of the Washington and London Governments". The continued military action had no basis in law or in any binding resolution passed by the competent organ of the United Nations. Those American and British acts of aggression had inflicted huge material losses and a loss of more than 300 martyrs and injuries to 900 civilians.
His country was being subjected to "a continued daily aggression by American and British aircraft" in the no-flight zone imposed on Iraq by "a unilateral decision of the Washington and London Governments". The continued military action had no basis in law or in any binding resolution passed by the competent organ of the United Nations.
Think about it. They have been operating out of the UN mandate.
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All information from the UN website.
21 September 2000
Press Release
GA/9778
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I thank God that we didnt have all this "Anti war toejam" going on in WW2.Our grandparents would be discusted to see the "American" people acting the way they are in Berkley and across the nation.Had we acted the same way in WW2 we could all be goose tepping right now.To say Saddam isnt a threat to the mid east is a fantasy.Hes allready used WMD on his own people.The area is dirt poor due to him taking every $ he can to build his personal playground.He needs to go.
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No...he used WMD against Iranians and American and Iranian supplied Kurds. Not his own people. If you wish to state facts, get them right.
America has used WMD against Germans , Japanese and Countless thousands of civilians, are we to expect from that that they will use them against us?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ahh yes hidden losses in afganistan. What are we up to know boroda, last time I checked that russian scam of a websight, US had lost over 60 airplanes shot down and three thousand soldiers killed. That was half a year ago. Should be twice that by now. Probably up to 1000 planes destroyed and 20,000 troops killed but the facist american administration is hiding all that.
Someone is one hell of a fool here and it aint me.
Did I say something about Afghanistan? Russian "scam of a websight"? Maybe you saw http://www.kavkaz.org? Soviet Army lost 13500 people in 10 years, against partizans equiped and fed by the USA. I doubt that limited operations by US troops will reach 1350 people lost every year.
If you don't understand what I mean - I am damn sure your last sentence isn't true.
Any comments regarding my other thoughts? Or you agree that they make sence? :D
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Originally posted by Ping
America has used WMD against Germans , Japanese and Countless thousands of civilians, are we to expect from that that they will use them against us?
WMD against Germans and "Countless thousands of civilians"? I missed somthing?
BTW, when atomic bombs were used against Japan - they were not considered WMD, at least by international conventions.
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Ahh Ping, I think I have you pegged. Pro Hussein, anti american. Is this a fair assesement?
3 Qs for you:
When did US military use a WMD against Germany?
Was the use of atomics then justified against Japan?
Would the use of atomics today be justified against USA?
Not that it matters, just curious about your political rationale.
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Ping, Hawk...
what is your solution (or approach) to the Iraq problem? What should we do if not go to war?
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Remember one thing.Every time we kicked someone into line,Japan,Germany et all,we rebuilt what we took out.Do you see Saddam trying to do anything other than execute Kurds? And really,what WMD did we use in Germany? Please dont say B 17's
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Originally posted by Nifty
Ping, Hawk...
what is your solution (or approach) to the Iraq problem? What should we do if not go to war?
Leave them alone, remove embargos.
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Anti American?..NO. I have american relatives. I like the people.
I DETEST the American Governments Hypocrisy.
WWI Americans used Gas and Nerve agents along witht the rest of the world. WWII The Firebombing was Mass destruction and if you dont want to use that then just figure 2 Atom Bombs.
The UN and other Nations are working toward a diplomatic solution as we speak but it is the Bush Administrations goal to go in irregardless.
Iraq at this time is not at a threat.
UN Inspectors want more time but Bush is against this.
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I absolutely detest a governments using violations of UN resolutions and terrorist activities as an excuse to go after 1 nation while at the same time allowing itself and its allies to do the same thing they claim the other is guilty of.
Easy enough to understand?
Got to go..will be back to face the inquisition later.
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(http://www.asod.org/1732cc80.jpg)
Chemical Warfare Agents (http://www.asod.org/id24.htm)
"Nerve agents are the most lethal of all chemical agents. In the open, six pounds of sarin, disseminated by a three-pound burster charge at a height of 15 feet, would create a dosage of 3500 mg min/m3. 20 yards from the burst site within 10 seconds (the airborne exposure limit [AEL] for sarin is 0.0001 mg min-m3).
Within 25 seconds, the plume would increase to a 50-yard radius, with a minimum dosage of 100 mg min/m3. In less than a minute of the blast, anyone within an area of over 70,000 square feet around the burst will have received at very least a medical lethal dose, and likely much more than that.
If the blast occurred indoors, the effects would be much greater. Nerve agent VX is 10 times more toxic than sarin, and would result in even more lethality."
IIRC about 8 seconds is the amount of time it takes to remove your protective mask from its carrying pouch and put it on clear it, and test the face to mask seal.
But that just protects your lungs, I will guess it would take at least 2 minutes to shuck your ruck-sack, remove the packages holding your MOPP suit, gloves, and booties, tear them open and put them on.
During this two minutes if your skin is exposed to nerve agent kiss your bellybutton goodbye... the only difference is you will take much longer to die than if you inhaled it.
You neo-conservatives seem to think cheap gas is worth American boys dying horribly....if I had a wish it would be that everyone of you could go experience it first hand, I bet you would be singing a different tune then.
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Ping, that's the why you feel that way. If you were replying directly to me, I wanted to know your alternative. Look forward to reading it later.
Boroda, an honest answer. Thanks! Not sure I agree with it though, depends on if the UN believes Iraq is in breach of the mandates laid out by the UN. If so, I don't think removing embargoes (which is a reward) is the right thing to do. That sends the message of "don't worry about what we say, we'll eventually remove the sanctions regardless if you follow the rules or not."
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Originally posted by Boroda
Did I say something about Afghanistan? Russian "scam of a websight"? Maybe you saw http://www.kavkaz.org? Soviet Army lost 13500 people in 10 years, against partizans equiped and fed by the USA. I doubt that limited operations by US troops will reach 1350 people lost every year.
If you don't understand what I mean - I am damn sure your last sentence isn't true.
Any comments regarding my other thoughts? Or you agree that they make sence? :D
Boroda are you saying that the 40th Army losses in Afganistan are not the 28,900 KIA as reported by the Russian General Staff Study headed by Colonel Professor Valentin Runov?
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If you want to have cheap gas - wait until inspections are over, and then vote for removing sanctions in the UN.
Some things to think about. Hussein is vital to the stability in Middle East. If he's removed - it will result in Kurd uprising in Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Iran. You need another 20 years long war there? You need a Kurdish state there? Believe me, Hussein will look like an angel compared to Kurdish state. (I have deep respect to Kurds fighting for their national independance, but their methods are too similiar to Chechens, if you understand what I mean).
Next. What I heard in Russian pro-western media. They said that Russia can withdraw from UN sanctions any time, and it will not violate any UN resolutions. I am not a specialist in UN politics, so I just repeat what our "liberals" say. Iraq owes us several billions, and can't pay it's debt because of sanctions. OTOH - if the sanctions will be removed, the oil prices will immediately go down, and it can kill what is by some strange mistake still called "Russian economics".
It's all too complicated for me to understand, but what I am definetly against is an outright agression against soverign nation prepared by some looney amazinhunks in Washington. It can be a dangerous precedent. If we'll sit on our bellybutton as we did when NATO bandits bombed Yugoslavia to protect terrorist drug-dealing gangsters in 1999 - any country can become their next target. Want to hear air-raid warning sirens in your home city?
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Boroda are you saying that the 40th Army losses in Afganistan are not the 28,900 KIA as reported by the Russian General Staff Study headed by Colonel Professor Valentin Runov?
Yes, I am going to say that official number, still considered extremely presice, is 13500 KIA from 27.12.1979 to 15.02.1989.
Edit: after a brief search I have found an exact number of 40th Army losses: 13833 men.
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Originally posted by DrDea/Kvorkian
I thank God that we didnt have all this "Anti war toejam" going on in WW2....
we did, mainly from the right wing (conservative isolationists, nazi supporting businessmen [like a certain mr prescott], businessmen who thought they could make more $ selling to both sides, people who thought the war would be economicly damaging & some who thought it was immoral). these types burned in effigy senator pepper (just talk about burning a president these days & you get 3 years in the big house, back then they could actually pretend they were doing the real thing...then again we have virtual kiddie porn) who started lend-lease. thats why US wasn't in 1st 2¼ years of the war - if japan hadn't drawn US in then who knows how much longer it would have been...case was very similar in WWI
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...and to think, if he had simply complied with the UN and it's inspectors and allowed them unrestricted access ELEVEN years ago, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in right now.
If he didn't have something to hide, then why would he threaten UN inspectors with death threats, keep them from entering areas, and give them the run around for ELEVEN years?
He's had plenty of time to comply and if he had done that, his country would be in far better shape than it is now...
He's evil and because of him, his own people are starving.
-SW
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Nifty: I think that the US should step back and allow the UN inspectors do their job, and then allow the UN to decide if war is needed.
Russia is stepping in to Work the diplomatic scene and France wants another UN meeting on war if need arises. Other countries are working the issue as well.
If its war thats required than so be it. But to base it upon lies and deceit ? I have more respect for life than that.
Even the countries in the area with the most to lose dont really want the US to invade.
Thats it in a nutshell
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AKS, I suggest you look at that UN report I cited before you say it is Saddam who is starving his own people.
It is economic warfare being waged against Iraq trying to force him from power.