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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on January 16, 2003, 12:48:52 PM

Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Mickey1992 on January 16, 2003, 12:48:52 PM
Yesterday for the first time I took a Tiger to pork a field's town.  I found that it took only 2 88mm Tiger rounds to destroy a town building.  On more than one occasion, it seemed that nearby buildings were getting collateral damage because when I destroyed one building, the one right next to it only took one round to destroy.

If I remember correctly, it takes 4 or 5 75mm Panzer rounds to destroy a town building.

Question from an ordinance newbie:  Does an 88mm HE round really have that much more of a kick than a 75mm HE round?
Title: Re: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: frank3 on January 16, 2003, 12:54:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
Question from an ordinance newbie:  Does an 88mm HE round really have that much more of a kick than a 75mm HE round?


lol, noooooooooo, it doenst!!! :rolleyes:
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Innominate on January 16, 2003, 12:56:07 PM
It doesnt take that many 75mm rounds.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Mickey1992 on January 16, 2003, 01:20:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
It doesnt take that many 75mm rounds.


Oh, does it only take 3?  That would make sense then.

Nevermind. :)
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: emodin on January 16, 2003, 02:15:44 PM
It only takes 2 75mm HE rounds to destroy a town building.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: brady on January 16, 2003, 03:26:36 PM
I Beleave it takes 8, 88MM HE rounds to kill a hanger(at an airfield) and 16, 75MM HE Rounds howearver.  The Funny thing is that it apears that thier is not a direct HE equivelancey with Arcraft Ordance, This would mean that the 88 HE shell would have an HE equilvancy of aprox. 300 pounds, since hangers at airfields take 2500 pounds to kill, the odd part comes in when you nead to fire 2 88HE to kill a bunker(ammo,fuel, ect) since a 100 pound bomb is capable of killing one all by it's self, I wounder if their is now a seperat coding for this. Also Osty rounds apear to be half as effective as before aganst structures, it now apears to take twice as much ammo to kill any given structure as it used to with them.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2003, 03:30:46 PM
It takes 12 88mm HE rounds to destroy a FH or BH and 18 75mm HE rounds to do the same.

The 75mm HE does approximately 66% as much damage as the 88mm HE.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Ecliptik on January 17, 2003, 02:19:48 AM
I believe lethality is set arbitrarily for each weapon, rather than there being general code for damage which incorporates the explosive mass of a bomb or shell as the weapon-specific variable.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Grendel on January 17, 2003, 03:20:44 AM
cant....resist......comment.. ......

WHAAAAA - Tiger IS Panzer!

Phhhhh....

Panzer 4: Panzerkampfwagen IV
Tiger: Panzerkampfwagen VI

Not that I can help in the subject itself in any way but... Forgive me :)
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: maxtor on January 17, 2003, 01:17:04 PM
I tested out the ostwind 37mm HE when this new version came out.  I was seeing proximity damage from those rounds at Training Base barracks.  I would count the rounds I fired at a "fresh" Barracks, then the round needed at the adjacent barracks afterwards.   The adjacent barracks always takes less rounds to explode, than a second "feesh" barracks a few buildings away.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: frank3 on January 17, 2003, 02:08:08 PM
how many Tiger shells does it take to pop a hangar?
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on January 17, 2003, 02:32:53 PM
And more important the lvt-a4 ???
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Karnak on January 17, 2003, 04:52:00 PM
It takes 12 Tiger 88mm HE shells to destroy a hanger.

It takes 18 LVT-A4 75mm HE rounds to destroy a hanger, just as it takes 18 Panzer IV H 75mm HE rounds.


The whole hanger durability is a gameplay device to start with.  HTC realized this and switch the tanks from doing damage based on their HE explosive content to a gameplay balanceed ammount of damage.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on January 17, 2003, 05:36:14 PM
Quote
It takes 18 LVT-A4 75mm HE rounds to destroy a hanger, just as it takes 18 Panzer IV H 75mm HE rounds.


Cmon for gameplay sake that lvt a4 should do better.
coz the shells hit the target more from above. Because of the trajectory it's more like a driving mortar. But why should we use it when the rest of vechiles is better?
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on January 17, 2003, 05:38:55 PM
The lvt-a4 never get's a chance to hit a hangar 18 x.
It would be already killed and blown up by 9mm browning.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Karnak on January 17, 2003, 05:53:19 PM
The LVT-A4 floats better than the Panzer IV H or Tiger I.  That is its use.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: illo on January 18, 2003, 01:49:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grendel
cant....resist......comment........

WHAAAAA - Tiger IS Panzer!

Phhhhh....

Panzer 4: Panzerkampfwagen IV
Tiger: Panzerkampfwagen VI

Not that I can help in the subject itself in any way but... Forgive me :)


To make things bit more complicated. :)

Panzer 4, or Pz IV  is not modeled in AH it is actually a tank destoyer build on PzKpfw IV chassis.

Here pic of Panzer IV/70
(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/jagd4.jpg)
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: emodin on January 18, 2003, 02:09:29 PM
I thought that was a Jagdpanzer IV/70
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Jester on January 18, 2003, 07:19:18 PM
It is.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: illo on January 19, 2003, 04:42:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by emodin
I thought that was a Jagdpanzer IV/70


Yes, whole series is often referred as Jagdpanzer IV.

Offical designation of above 75L70 armed variant  is:
Sturmgeschütz neuer Art mit 7.5cm KwK L/70 auf Fahrgestell PzKpfw IV.

Panzer IV/70(A) or (V), Sd. Kfz. 162/1.


75/L48 armed variant below was named...

Jagdpanzer IV Sd. Kfz. 162 (75mm L/48)
(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/pzjag48.jpg)

confusing..ehh? :)
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: devious on January 20, 2003, 07:30:17 AM
Panzer, in general: Tank. All german Tanks were Panzers or acronymed PzKpfw for Panzerkampfwagen (Armored Fighting Vehicle, literally)

Jagdpanzer: Tank destroyer (no turret)

They all had distinct SdKfz (Sonderkraftfahrzeug = Special Vehicle) numbers. Those would suffice to identify a vehicle type, a simple "Panzer" isn't.

Those are german designations after all ;)
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: illo on January 20, 2003, 02:24:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by devious
Panzer, in general: Tank. All german Tanks were Panzers or acronymed PzKpfw for Panzerkampfwagen (Armored Fighting Vehicle, literally)

Jagdpanzer: Tank destroyer (no turret)

They all had distinct SdKfz (Sonderkraftfahrzeug = Special Vehicle) numbers. Those would suffice to identify a vehicle type, a simple "Panzer" isn't.

Those are german designations after all ;)


Hi devious.  
Hope we get our A-6. ;)

Here is how I understand it (In finnish these terms are similar to german in meaning):

Panzer=Armor (in its both meanings, vehicle/shield)

All armor.
Tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns, etc.


Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw)=Armor fight wagon

Turreted armored vehicle meant to combat enemy armor.


Sturmgeschützwagen (StuG)=Assault gun wagon

Originally mobile armored direct fire artillery. Later (1942 on) in tank destroyer role.


Panzerjäger (PzJäg)=Armor hunter

Selfpropelled ATG. Usually with only light frontal armor. Exceptions like Ferdinand and Elephant - PzJäg Tiger(P) which are more like later Jagdpanzers.


Jagdpanzer (JPz)=Hunt armor

Armored anti tank vehicle.


Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations?:) )






Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: gofaster on January 21, 2003, 08:50:11 AM
I'm hoping they bring the Sherman Caliope rocket-equipped tank to Aces High, if for no other reason than to counter the Tiger threat.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Shiva on January 21, 2003, 12:12:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by illo
Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations?:) )


German is agglutinative, jamming separate words together to create a single word -- instead of the three-word "armored personnel carrier", you get "schützenpanzerwagen". When you get terms like "2cm FliegerabwehrKanonevierling 38 auf Selbstfahrlafette PanzerKampfwagen IV" or "Gepanzerter Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz 7,5 cm Sturmkanone 40 Ausführung F (Sonderkraftfahrzeug 142/1) Sturmgeschütz III", you begin to see where abbreviating the hell out of everything you can is good, just so that you don't get writer's cramp putting down the description of the vehicle -- particularly with the German fetish for making sure that everything is properly documented.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: hyena426 on January 21, 2003, 01:07:34 PM
Quote
just as it takes 18 Panzer IV H 75mm HE rounds.
 it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a  hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger


but i think only reason aces high makes them that tuff,,is because the air bases on aces high are alot smaller than the real deal,,so they have to make it up with tuffer hangers instead of number of hangers on a field
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: vorticon on January 21, 2003, 01:18:33 PM
one would assume 88mm would be stronger than 75mm
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Shiva on January 21, 2003, 02:32:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hyena426
it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a  hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger


An 88mm HE round had about 3kg of explosive for a bursting charge; the bursting charge of the HC projectile for the 16"/50 guns on an Iowa-class battleship was about 70kg. However, blast effects go up as the cube root of warhead yield, so the blast effect of a 16" round is about three times that of an 88mm round. And look -- it takes twelve 88mm shells to kill a hangar, and four 16" shells: one-third the number.

Now, HC bombs typically have about half their weight as bursting charge, so a 500-lb bomb would have about twice the blast effect of a 16" HC shell, which means that it would take two of them to knock down a hangar. One 1000-lb bomb wouldn't quite do it, but a 2000-lb bomb would. Obviously, HT has tweaked the hardness of hangars vs. bombs in order to keep fighter-bombers from running roughshod over fields.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: devious on January 22, 2003, 03:25:18 PM
original post fuxored by damn hotel computer
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: devious on January 22, 2003, 03:28:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by illo
Hi devious.  
Hope we get our A-6. ;)

Here is how I understand it (In finnish these terms are similar to german in meaning):

Panzer=Armor (in its both meanings, vehicle/shield)

All armor.
Tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns, etc.
[/B]

Aye 4x20mm Mauser goodness !

Yes, Panzer literally means Armor.

Quote

Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw)=Armor fight wagon

Turreted armored vehicle meant to combat enemy armor.


Panzerkampfwagen = Armored (Panzer) Fighting (Kampf) Vehicle (Wagen - literally a "Waggon") - aproximately a Main Battle Tank

Quote

Sturmgeschützwagen (StuG)=Assault gun wagon

Originally mobile armored direct fire artillery. Later (1942 on) in tank destroyer role.


StuG = Sturmgeschütz = Assault Gun.

Earlier StuGs were primarily intended for the fire support role, later ones (StuG III dunno subtype) on for tank killing. By then, the concept of self-propelled artillery was catching on to Adolf. Germany had NO SP Artillery guns at the start of the war.

Quote

Panzerjäger (PzJäg)=Armor hunter

Selfpropelled ATG. Usually with only light frontal armor. Exceptions like Ferdinand and Elephant - PzJäg Tiger(P) which are more like later Jagdpanzers.


Jagdpanzer (JPz)=Hunt armor

Armored anti tank vehicle.


IIRC, only the (WW2) Marders were named PzJg, "Tank Hunter". Those were stopgap measures to produce something with the firepower able to kill a T-34 (but not survive a single hit from it)



Quote

Then there is that all those MTW, KPW, SPW, LPW, FlammPz, FlakPz StuPz...hell.

(Did germans have some kind of fetish with these abbreviations?:) ) [/B]

[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is kind of a german fetish....

It even produced the joke of Hitler as the GRöFAZ = Grösster Feldherr Aller Zeiten - Greatest warlord of all times

btw, MTW = Mannschaftstransportwagen = Infantry carrying vehicle

FLAK = Flugabwehrkanone = Cannon for use against aircraft

SPW = Schützenpanzerwagen = "Marksmen`s armored vehicle" = light tank

FlammPz = Flammenwerferpanzer = Flame thrower tank

StuPz = Sturmpanzer = "Assault tank" = a siege tank

The list goes on and on and on...
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Jester on January 22, 2003, 08:53:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hyena426
it real life,,it shouldnt even take that much to kill a hanger.,,i live close to some ww2 airplane hangers,, a handgranade could allmost take them down,,hehe,,let alone 18 hits from any cannon,,,,even the battle ships 16 inchers have a tuff time taking down a hanger,,allmost 4 direct hits<~~that aint right,,, ,one 16inch shell would rip apart a hanger


The ships we have are not Battleships. They are Heavy Cruisers (CA) fireing 8 Inch Guns (about 155 mm) with HE shells.

Still if you have ever seen a 155mm HE shell go off it is more than enough to take out any "regular" hangar made - particularly since a turret salvo is three shells at a time.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Shiva on January 23, 2003, 04:53:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by devious
SPW = Schützenpanzerwagen = "Marksmen`s armored vehicle" = light tank


Actually, the SPW is an armored personnel carrier, as in the SdKfz 251 mittlerer Schützenpanzerwagen and SdKfz 250 leichter Schützenpanzerwagen series of vehicles.
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: hyena426 on January 24, 2003, 02:07:56 AM
Quote
The ships we have are not Battleships. They are Heavy Cruisers (CA) fireing 8 Inch Guns (about 155 mm) with HE shells.
well what heavy crusers are they tring to rep?,,because there using the wrong model for it,,lol,,2 heavy turrets up front,,and 1 in the back,,,most ca's had 4 turrets,,with 8 inchers in them,2 guns in each turret,or maybe 2 turrets with 11inchers in them<~~counts the country your from,,,on this game,,they look like the south dakota class allmost,lol<~~maybe the rare alaskan class cruser?,,but even it had 12inch cannons,,and it was too late to see any action anyways

and i know it would be plenty to take down a hanger,,like i said,,a handgrenade could take down the hangers close to were i live,,and there real ww2 military hangers,,they wernt made to take hits,,,,i think aces high made them so tuff,,because the bases are so small,,too make up for the lack of huge bases and the need for hunderds of people just too take out one base,,lol<~~like a scaled down war
Title: Tiger HE rounds vs Panzer HE rounds
Post by: Jester on January 24, 2003, 01:34:31 PM
The Cruiser we have is a replica of a US NAVY  BALTIMORE CLASS CA (Heavy Cruiser).

She has 3 tripple 8" turrets - 2 forward and 1 aft as her main armament.  6 twin DP 5" turrets make up her secondary battery.

Hyena, you are mistaken. Most of the Heavy Cruisers of the USN did only have 3 main gun turrets in a two forward, one aft set-up. The only exception was the old PENSACOLA class which had 4 turrets. (Two tripple & two twin 8 inch turrets).  Most of the USN Light Cruisers (CL) (6 inch guns) did have 4 turrets. The BROOKLYN CLASS had 5 tripple 6 inch turrets!

Here is a shot of our Cruiser - the USS BALTIMORE CA-68