Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weazel on January 17, 2003, 02:35:15 PM
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Rummy should resign (http://www.takebackthemedia.com/pentagoon2.html)
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Have a nice weekend MG!
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Take my hand, Weazel, we're waiting for you whenever you are ready.... Welcome Home (http://www.whitehouse.gov/) :)
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hehe look at the title of this thread, Weazel is starting to talk like Sean Penn :D
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Have a nice weekend MG!
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Yeah....cant argue with lightheaded insanity. Need a tool of some sort.
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As a VN Vet I can say that those remarks made me want to tear his heart out and roast it on an open spit infront of his family....
...but then, I'm the easygoing glass half full kind of guy, many of my contemporaries have better and more creative ideas on how to make Rummy STFU.
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What Rummy said is consistent with my dad's description of a lot of the enlisted draftees in his command towards the end of the war.
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Can someone, anyone of content describe what old rum had to say. I cant even bare to look at web presentations.
I like the guy, he talks smart and seems to have a better grasp on u.s. military behemoth (aka pentagon) better than most. But if he has gaffed something fierce then would like a sane persons description.
thnx in advance
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Weazel, how about a real statement of your opinion on the issue of the draft instead of subjecting us to such a lengthy, canned and spinny propaganda political advertisement that requires no thought from you?
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indefenceable
yet defended
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Weazel, how about a real statement of your opinion on the issue of the draft instead of subjecting us to such a lengthy, canned and spinny propaganda political advertisement that requires no thought from you?
requires no thought from you (weazel) <----- There's your answer... :D
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Originally posted by funkedup
What Rummy said is consistent with my dad's description of a lot of the enlisted draftees in his command towards the end of the war.
Ya gotta seperate performance and perception, the draftees did indeed perform extraordinarly well given the conditions they faced with the abrivieated training they recieved. I was an enlistee, when we recieved new fish as replacements we felt obligated to teach them the survival skills the Army neglected in basic. In the end, whether they were a draftee or enlistee it didn't matter much grunt to grunt.
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Ranking Republicans sure are making some stupid comments these days.
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Every citizen should be required to serve a minimum of two years in the military when they reach 18 yoa.
The ones who can't hack it can pick up trash along the highways.
With no "outs" because of who daddy is either.
The only exception should be that all aliens who wish to be naturalized should have to commit to four years minimum, it's only fair since they get to suck the government tit.
And Donald Rumsfeld needs his bellybutton kicked by a veteran or two, being one himself you would think he would appreciate the men who served whether voluntary or drafted.
Easy for you to say funked...seeing as your only contribution to the country has been sitting on your well exercised ass.
Put your money where your big mouth is and sign up...otherwise you should just shut-up on subjects you don't know anything about.
Originally posted by Gunthr
Weazel, how about a real statement of your opinion on the issue of the draft instead of subjecting us to such a lengthy, canned and spinny propaganda political advertisement that requires no thought from you?
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Easy for you to say funked...seeing as your only contribution to the country has been sitting on your well exercised ass.
How do you know what I have contributed? Equipment I worked on is fighting terrorism as we speak. Beats the heck out of your current contribution - Anti-American propaganda in a time of war.
Put your money where your big mouth is and sign up...otherwise you should just shut-up on subjects you don't know anything about.
Oh you were in Vietnam? God you really ARE becoming MG. Did they kick you out for dealing meth too? Don't even try to tell me that your REMF service during peacetime makes you more of an expert on Vietnam than I am.
The fact is neither one of us is an expert, but I've got somebody who was there telling me that a lot of the draftees were even worse than what Rummy said.
*edited for gratuitous profanity*
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Originally posted by MrLars
Ya gotta seperate performance and perception, the draftees did indeed perform extraordinarly well given the conditions they faced with the abrivieated training they recieved. I was an enlistee, when we recieved new fish as replacements we felt obligated to teach them the survival skills the Army neglected in basic. In the end, whether they were a draftee or enlistee it didn't matter much grunt to grunt.
MrLars.
What was the ratio of enlistees/conscripts like in your unit? I take it the officers and NCO's were a lot more likely to be enlistees?
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If Saddam is breaking the surrender agreement, thats reason enough to invade Iraq. But thats not all. The Iraqi secret police are very brutal, torturing and killing not only suspects, but their (the suspects) family and friends also.
Is it worth it liberate Iraq from this brutal dictator who will not cooperate with the U.S and UN? Its my opinion that the U.S. should have invaded the minute that weapon inspectors were thrown out. This is not a draftee military anymore. Nobody has been forced to join in the last 30 years.
War is brutal, and war is scary, but the fact of the matter is, the first Gulf War was the first time in history where it was safer to be in a war than to be in peacetime training.
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Did you serve weazel?
Originally posted by weazel
Every citizen should be required to serve a minimum of two years in the military when they reach 18 yoa.
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Ok...waisted my time and viewed the canned, one sided presentation. Couldnt find any reference to the remarks via web search...must be the jewish controlled oil soaked media...hehe.
Taking the presentation as it was, obviously one sided and out of context. Still, taken on its face value a dumbsh*t thing to say but I wont put any credence in it without a better understanding of the full discourse that led to the remarks, if even factual.
Oh yes, its all about daddy, oil and getting filthy rich, yeah thats it. What other rational explanation could it be.
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This country is going to eat itself alive from the inside out.
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Every citizen should be required to serve a minimum of two years in the military when they reach 18 yoa.
Weazel, I can't say I'm entirely against that idea as far as I think it would be a way to help young people mature and learn to appreciate their country.
However, do you know how unpopular this idea actually is to young Dems?
The whole idea is a misguided Democratic idea in hopes of causing a hoopla on the eve of war. (I'm sure you know it was recently floated by a Democratic Senator in hopes of influencing foreign policy by the brauhaha he'd hoped to create?)
What a joke. Even if Rumsfelt mispoke (I didn't read it) its rather pathetic when the Dems feel they have to sieze on every little mistake in public speaking - the President's dislexia included - to deperately try to turn the media to their purposes.
I'm telling you, it is doomed to fail. People see through this. I think you are one of the few people that actually believe that the Dems are serious about wanting the draft. (That is, if you are being honest here)
C'mon Weazel, don't lighten up, tighten up.
The Republican Party, as always, extends its hand to you in warm welcome. You have the link. Just do it. :)
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What do the vets think?
"As an organization founded by Vietnam War veterans seeking justice and fairness for all - whether military personnel or civilians - we are outraged by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's comments made at a January 7th DOD press conference when asked about the possibility of resurrecting the draft. Secretary Rumsfeld said troops from Vietnam War conscription, "added 'no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services…'"
As Vietnam veterans who served with conscripted soldiers, we find Secretary Rumsfeld's egregious slur a grave insult to the memory, sacrifice and valor of those who lost their lives, and, further, dismissive of the hundreds and thousands of lives, both in the U.S. and in Vietnam, who were devastatingly shattered by the Vietnam War.
We suggest that the Secretary choose his words much more carefully in the future, and be sensitive as to how they affect those who put their lives on the line for this country, whether drafted or enlisted. This is all the more critical as our country is on the eve of war with Iraq, and thousands of U.S. troops are again mobilized to potentially engage in battle."
-- Bobby Muller, President of Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation
Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation (http://vvaf.org/media/pr_010903.shtml)
(Washington, D.C) – "We are deeply disappointed by the Secretary of Defense's disparaging remarks last week regarding Vietnam War draftees. These remarks defame the honorable and distinguished service of over 1.7 million draftees during the Vietnam Era," Vietnam Veterans of America national President Thomas H. Corey said today. "The Secretary's comments are without foundation at best and insulting at worst."
Corey was responding to remarks made Wednesday, January 8, by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that draftees added "no value, no advantage, really, to the United States Armed Services over any sustained period of time."
"Secretary Rumsfeld should know that the Vietnam War could not have continued for 10 years without a military draft of honorable Americans who accepted their military obligation as citizens of this great country," Corey said. "The United States won every military confrontation with the enemy in Vietnam, and that was accomplished with the devoted and often heroic service of many tens of thousands of draftees. Further, a system of military conscription has been used in most of America's wars, including World War II, World War I, and the Civil War."
Rumsfeld made his remarks in response to a call last week by Congressman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) to reinstate the draft.
"More than 17,000 of the more than 58,000 men and women whose names are on The Wall were draftees," Corey continued. "It is wrong for anyone to demean their memories and insult their families as the Secretary did last week. Similarly, it is wrong to demean the hundreds of thousands of us who were wounded and disabled as a result of our honorable service. Our service did have value. Most of us went on to make significant contributions to America in civilian life that are valued by our families, our friends, our communities, and by most Americans."
"At a bare minimum, the Secretary owes an apology to the families of those draftees whose names are inscribed on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, and those who served with them," Corey said.
Vietnam Veterans of America (http://www.vva.org/PressReleases/2003/pr03-02.htm)
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I dislike the democratic party probably as much as the republican party. They are as spineless as the republicans are corrupt.
Other than that there's no difference between the two other than rhetoric.
I could give a toejam if the draft would be popular. :)
It would do more good than harm to have some of the little misfits you see running around there days to learn some discipline the old fashioned way....by having their bellybutton kicked by an authority figure....
Jebus knows it's not being done in 99% of American homes by parents.
Kanth
Yes I served, I enlisted in 79.
Reasons why is I felt then as I do now it's something every American owes this nation.
Gee funked, you need to join cabbys support group for children who live vicariously through family members experiences.
I served, you didn't...I was willing and you sat on your well exercised ass, all veterans deserve more respect than what rumsfeld is giving them.
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Show Rumsfeld some respect. He's a Veteran.
"Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989."
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weazel,
Say you were infantry, dangerous job with the ultimate price for screwing up.
Are you certain you would want, someone who doesn't even want to be there beside you, paying their dues so that someone else can feel some sort of equity? After all it's your life lost when they screw up and fall asleep on watch cause they just don't care.
Say that person's job is operating some really expensive machinery that can kill people (they have those in the military ;)
You want them operating that?
I sure as hell don't.
People in the military get paid, they do risk their lives, they are given benefits because of it.
Just like many other civilian jobs, and like those civilian jobs it's a choice they make because they want to be there for whatever reasons. money, educational bennies, feelings of duty for country etc.
Why not force rich kids to become fisherman as well, after all those folks die, to feed people salmon.
My point is, why put people who have a very important job to do at stake for paper? We dont' have a shortage there isn't an emergency. What is the justification?
Originally posted by weazel
Kanth
Yes I served, I enlisted in 79.
Reasons why is I felt then as I do now it's something every American owes this nation.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
What a joke. Even if Rumsfelt mispoke (I didn't read it) its rather pathetic when the Dems feel they have to sieze on every little mistake in public speaking - the President's dislexia included - to deperately try to turn the media to their purposes.
The Republican Party, as always, extends its hand to you in warm welcome. You have the link. Just do it. :)
I supose you have read the response a representitive of the VN Vets made regarding Rummys comments, he OWES an appology to VN Vets...where is it?
If the Reps extend a hand out to me will it be before or after the obligatory reach around?
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Ok erlkonig, now I recall the topic. Thanks for your moderation
Rangel calling for the draft was a scam insulting to all fair minded people as well as socialist liberals (even though they probably didnt even comprehend it). Obviously an attempt to generate ill will amongst americans and to divide us even further, the bastard.
I watched Rangel debate this very topic on MSNBC. The congressman from NY is a sham and a scam.
I can appreciate Rum going off half cocked when I consider he attempted to defend the volunteer army (huray!) by trying to disparage the concept of a conscript army (agree with some reservations). In my book, if you cant generate the call to arms voluntarally then the cause for war is either highly suspect like Vietnam or catostrophic like WW2 and right now Iraq is neither.
I suspect most veteran organizations in their sweeping condemnation of rummy went off half cocked as well. Thanks again to the bastard from NY, Rangel. WTFG Rangel! One can only wonder who pulled Rangels strings? Clinton?
Sorry conscripted vets, Im with the SoD on this one. Appreciate and honor your sacrifice personally just the same, be sure of that.
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I supose you have read the response a representitive of the VN Vets made regarding Rummys comments, he OWES an appology to VN Vets...where is it?
MrLars
No sir, I havn't read the response, nor have I read what Rumsfeld said about draftees - been reading to my daughter and putting her to bed.
MrLars, If Vietnam Vets who were draftees have been offended by what Rumsfeld said, I hope that he quickly apologises. I'm not defending him if he meant to show contempt for them. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt until I read it. Its hard for me to believe that he really has contempt for anyone who fought for this country, even a draftee. The point is, he is against the draft. So am I at this time because it is not a serious suggestion.
As for the reach around, MrLars, ask not what your country can do for you...
:D
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Originally posted by weazel
Gee funked, you need to join cabbys support group for children who live vicariously through family members experiences.
WTF is that supposed to mean? My old man described the Army as a minimum security prison where the inmates have guns. Why would I want to live THAT vicariously?
I served, you didn't...
[/b]
Which has diddly-all to do with this discussion.
I was willing and you sat on your well exercised ass,
Again, who the diddly are you to talk about what I did? You don't know me from Adam.
all veterans deserve more respect than what rumsfeld is giving them.
He wasn't talking about ALL veterans numbskull. He was talking about draftees during the Vietnam era that were used to feed the imperialist meatgrinder. Yes he should have said it more diplomatically. But when you hear and read enough accounts of drugged up conscripts shooting their own officers, getting high and falling asleep on guard duty, raping, looting, etc., it starts to make you think there might be some truth to what the man is saying.
And don't come back with your "I was a REMF during the 80's so that trumps all your research." roadkill.
PS Why are you obsessed with my ass?
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love the logic.
Man calling for draft in the eve of war: has his reasons questioned.
Man who insults draftees "en masse" with finger pointed smack at those in viertan war, is "misunderstood".
Get your head out of your bellybutton Yeager. Rangel is making a political play, granted, not a good one at that, and i'm nobody is taking it seriously.
But for a person of authority, the SECRETARY OF DEFENCE no less, to INSULT THE SACRIFICE of those who went to DIE for this country ? What about the WWII vets ? What if he had said the same thing and used WWII example ? I bet that would get your panties in a wad real quick.
Funk, i'm sorry Mike but you are off on a tangent here.
People have different reasons for joining military. Not all, and i would venture to say that most people DO NOT join for patriotic reasons, rather for ECONOMICAL ones, especially in peace time. Those who vounteered when the country called are a special case, offcouse, but i wouldn't demean anyone's ultimate sacrifice, regardless of their reasons for joining or willingness to do so.
They did have a choice to go to canada and say "screw this". They didn't. They went and died. They were heros.
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Funk, i'm sorry Mike but you are off on a tangent here.
OK I will assume you intend to contradict me.
People have different reasons for joining military. Not all, and i would venture to say that most people DO NOT join for patriotic reasons, rather for ECONOMICAL ones, especially in peace time. Those who vounteered when the country called are a special case, offcouse, but i wouldn't demean anyone's ultimate sacrifice, regardless of their reasons for joining or willingness to do so.
They did have a choice to go to canada and say "screw this". They didn't. They went and died. They were heros.
You didn't contradict me. All I said is that some of the draftees were like what Rummy described. I give a guy points for not going to Canada, but if he went over to Vietnam and shot his officer in the back (this happened frequently), then that kind of trumps the not-going-to-Canada don't you think?
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I served, and there's lessons you learn in the military...it's called respect and loyalty to and for your fellow soldier.
Obviously those lessons didn't register with Rumsfeld...and your sitting in the college dorm pulling bongs wouldn't teach you either.
Volunteer or conscript makes no difference.
As far as Vietnam stories go I'm pretty sure I have heard a wider range of them than you and from multiple sources.
When I enlisted Vietnam had been over for only 4 years, nearly every senior NCO I served with did a tour in Vietnam, many of them began their military career as conscripts.
I can't recall any of them describing it like your fathers experience, and all of them called foul at the tripe Hollywood puts out as representative of that war.
Why don't you go over to Check Six UBB and ask easymo what he thinks about Rumsfelds comments?
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Originally posted by weazel
I served, and there's lessons you learn in the military...it's called respect and loyalty to and for your fellow soldier.
Obviously those lessons didn't register with Rumsfeld...and your sitting in the college dorm pulling bongs wouldn't teach you either.
Volunteer or conscript makes no difference.
As far as Vietnam stories go I'm pretty sure I have heard a wider range of them than you and from multiple sources.
When I enlisted Vietnam had been over for only 4 years, nearly every senior NCO I served with did a tour in Vietnam, many of them began their military career as conscripts.
I can't recall any of them describing it like your fathers experience, and all of them called foul at the tripe Hollywood puts out as representative of that war.
Why don't you go over to Check Six UBB and ask easymo what he thinks about Rumsfelds comments?
That's a pretty good answer.
I did pull bongs in the dorm room. I did not inhale of course.
I'm guessing that with those NCO's you knew a lot more vets than I do. Maybe my dad was just in a lousy unit.
I concur that Hollywood's Vietnam is uniformly crappy, and vets seem to agree.
And I agree that Easymo's opinion on this would carry a lot of weight.
Too bad it took us that far down the page to communicate that well.
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The thing is, it's not WW2 and it's Not Vietnam it's NOW
and now we have alot more technology than we had back then and need competant willing skilled soldiers to do precision work.
It's just like the educational thread, you want people who can do the job, who are willing to lean, who will give 100%.
As I said, there is no shortage of people there isn't a world war and there is no reason to draft.
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I just watched the little flick, no info was really provided but some music and a dancing caricature..
Parts of sentences taken out of context don't do anything for me.
I like to be fully informed in context before I make any decisons about anyone.
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Here's a really stupid and simpleton-like analogy (apologies).
The minister presiding over a funeral of a guy who was a bit of a drunk, a bit of an amazinhunk.... does not say "This man was a drunk and an amazinhunk".
Yeah, on the whole, the draftees aren't going to be as effective as the volunteers (though I think it's one hell of a stretch to characterize them as fragging inmates with guns). These men were forced to fight, they went (they had no choice), and scores of them died.
For the (freaking) Secretary of Defence to say that these people were of "no value" is pretty sick. Afterall, it was exactly his ilk that drafted them and signed their death certificates in the very first place.
In Rumsfeld's defence, I think it was a gaffe. He was responding technically to what's clearly an emotionally charged issue. But Jesus... These sorts of misfires are really starting to pile on top of one another.
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The worthless puke that is trying to restart the draft is doing it because in a vol. military there is a larger representation of black people than in the general population. He thinks this is some kind of ploy by the goverment agenst black people, so to be fair he wants to draft everybody. I am sorry but this has nothing to do with serving your country, the war on terror, or national pride. This is about some love muffin with a twisted view and a "the world hates me because I'm black" mentality.
There are more ways to serve your country than being in the military. I have been a paramedic for over 10 years, have treated thousands of people and have saved more than a few lives. I have treated more gsw's (gun shot wounds) than most military medics. Have flown thousand's of miles in medivac helo's working on critical patients in some of the most turbulant flying conditions you can imagine. Even was the first grond ambulance on the scene when that same helo crashed 5 miles from my station, killing the pilot (a 24 yr mil vet) and criticaly injuring the nurse and medic. All of whome were good friends. I was there when they pulled the pilots body out of the lake and helped carry him to the mortuary van, draped in an American flag. I have done cpr on dead babies, worked on a 12 yr old girl that shot herself in the head because she was sick and tired of being raped by her step dad, and have seen more dead people than I care to ever remember.
Don't go saying you have to serve in the military to serve this country. I have skills that I would gladly put to use for my country if needed, but I'll be damned if I am going to be pulled away from my wife and baby boy to serve in a military that does not need me, just to fill some quotta on race. But like that guy said on the US Navy movie playing in the previews of movies "I am not going to let someone come over here and tell my family how to live there lives and take away their freedom, I will be dead before that happens."
Rant off
:mad:
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Oh; ye of few clues and fewer facts.. harken!
Every major fight this countrys been in has had draftees facing the pointy end of the enemys spear. Welcome to the Infantry!
ONLY in vietnam were those conscrpitees handed a 'go home' ticket at the end of twelve months in the battle zone and led by officers and noncoms that were overwhelmingly RA. (voulenteers) Think about that.. we were not there 'for the duration' as our fathers were in WWII and we were NOT fighting for our homes, our loved ones. Nobody was bombing San Francisco, we were not fighting Hitler.
I served. A very large part of my unit were UA (draftees). When we got field assignments that involved some pointless bushbeating we were less than enthusiastic about the process. When we got field assignments that involved support or extraction of engaged friendlies we did our work with a will. Our avowed mission, amongst ourselves; was mutual support and survival.
The draftees in my unit were irreverent, often disrespectful of our senior officers, but they also did the stinkin job. Every gawdamned time. Do not confuse this attitude with disloyalty. A soldier can do his job without being a lifer. When we put on the boots we did not check our brains at the door.
When politicians like Rumsfield paint with a broad brush they do the individuals that faced the music over there an injustice. To be 'called to service by the nation', to answer that call and do the duty assigned should not reap Rumsfields Reward. The draft may be 'history' now.. but should this nation face another protracted struggle, it WILL be back... and again, those called will again be the in the majority; out there facing the pointy end...
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Nash do you happen to have a link to this speech?
I haven't seen it in the news and doing a search I'm unable to locate it, or anyone have a link to it?
Originally posted by Nash
For the (freaking) Secretary of Defence to say that these people were of "no value" is pretty sick. Afterall, it was exactly his ilk that drafted them and signed their death certificates in the very first place.
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You can get every day's DoD's press briefing right from their webpage:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2003/t01072003_t0107sd.html
"And what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone."
Heh... looking at it now.... one quick and dirty slashing of the quote's insides leaves you with:
"And what was left was sucked into the intake... churning took place... and then they were gone."
Arbitrary, but kind of poetic.
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Ahh the days of the draft.. When the CQ and SDO did their night barracks checks with a baseball bat and a 45 .
And that was stateside .
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Though Rumsfeld's choice of words was poor, I think a lot of people miss the gist of what he's saying. It's not so much that he attacks draftees as having no combat value, but rather that the costs associated with training and maintaining a conscripted army do not add up.
Meaning that you spend the time, effort, money, and resources to train conscripts, and then after their tour is up they're gone. Back to square one with a new set of conscripts. An all-volunteer army doesn't produce this kind of massive turnover and the costs associated with it; there is far less combat experience "brain drain" over time. And if we as a country have the capacity to maintain an all-volunteer army, why unless absolutely necessary would we ever want to institute a draft and all of the costs associated with it?
Here's the quote unceremoniously ripped from Nash's post:
"And what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone."
-- Todd/Leviathn
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When I was in durring the 90s they were looking for excuses to kick people out of the army . All you had to do was knock on the CO's door if you wanted out. People who met physical fittness standards but looked fat were kicked out . They even offered NCO's bonuses to get out . Heck when I was in you needed college to make it to SGT. The result of this was I believe an army of the highest quality soldiers ever, certainly better than the WWII or vietnam era army .
Our CSM was talking to us about how much the army had changed. He was telling us a story about when he was staff duty NCO back in the seventies. It was years after the draft but there were still a lot of scumbags in . He was doing the night security checks with staff duty officer going around to each battery and checking in with the CQs etc. At one battery they couldn't find the CQ at the orderly room . So they started looking, he walked in front of the SDO with a baseball bat and the SDO had his 45 . As their were walking through the barracks they heard a loud crash and banging. They ran down the hall and around the corner to find a wall locker someone had just pushed down the stairs from 2nd floor . They heard a person groaning from inside the wall locker (which was locked) . They had just found the CQ .
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As i recall, LBJ(a sleazy Democrat of the highest order)drafted the toejam out of American youth(and was reviled for it)and sent 'em by the thousands to Viet Nam. Burning draft-cards and giving LBJ/Pentagon the finger was SOP for Liberal-Lefities, most of whom were from the Upper Middle Class and had draft deferments. They of often did so to the strains of that Country Joe and the Fish tune. Oh BTW, Country Joe and his "Fish"(i always assumed the "Fish" were the audience) were one of the worst "musical" groups ever. Cats yowling in a back-street alley sound better.
And when these draftees returned home, they were then toejam on by the Liberal Leftie Democrats( many carrying Ho Chi Minh/Che Guevara photographs in their expensive sheepskin wallets, and driving tres chic 1960's era Mercedes Benz's for that "Rich, Cool Hippie" look).
Liberal-Left "Anti-War" psuedo-intellectuals, media pinheads, wet-behind-the-ears college punks, and generally-too-stupid-to-live Neo-Anarchists often called these mostly working-class(the "class Liberal Leftists are most "concerned" about, that's why they called cops, who are decidedly working class, "Pigs")draftees "Baby Killers", "Murderers", and worse.
And now these same Liberal-Leftist love muffines want to re-institute the Draft??????? Do the Liberal Leftists really think people are that stupid?? As a matter of fact, they most certainly do. Liberal Leftists count on stupidity for their very survival.
Hey Weezy, ain't ya gonna show us yer medals again???
Cabby
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You're getting better, Cabby. I only counted seven references to "Liberal-Lefties" and the "Liberal-Left" in that last rant.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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^
If they aren't Liberal Leftists, what are they?? Explain, please.
In addition, explain why there should be, or should not be, a Draft. Or just STFU...........
C.
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Force multiplier, 1970: Thai Stick, an L.A.W. and a Zippo.
Force Multiplier, 2003: 22 year old 130 pound college grad females toting 70 pounds of battery dependant Command and Control gimcrackery.
What are we gonna do when we run outta the VERY limited number of 'hitech' infantry we possess?
My friends, the modern army is very impressive... and way too freakin complicated and expensive as well as lacking in sufficent numbers to sustain itself in a protracted fight.
Is it sufficent to handle lil brushups in various hotspots.. certainly. thats what it's designed to do. Can it hold the chineese? Not for more than a day.
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Originally posted by Cabby44
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If they aren't Liberal Leftists, what are they?? Explain, please.
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Massive generalizations created by you for your own ends. Or do you actually believe it when you spew such utter nonsense as:
"And when these draftees returned home, they were then toejam on by the Liberal Leftie Democrats( many carrying Ho Chi Minh/Che Guevara photographs in their expensive sheepskin wallets, and driving tres chic 1960's era Mercedes Benz's for that "Rich, Cool Hippie" look). " * Italics added to denote stereotypical, moronic roadkill
In addition, explain why there should be, or should not be, a Draft.
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I have a better idea. Why not tell me what you're certain my thoughts on this issue would be since you seem to be such a good judge of human nature and political ideology.
Or just STFU
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This from the man for which the term "STFU" was probably invented.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Truth hurts, doesn't it...........
C.
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Mmmmmph... :rolleyes:
N.
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After all IIRC from a previous rant he's a product of a "left coast - lefty liberal" school...Berkley wasn't it?
C'mon of sage of the right wing", enlighten us, what's the criteria to be a "liberal leftist"?
"Liberal Leftists, what are they?? Explain, please."
Your real good at blabbering the spew you pick up from Rush and Chris the Screamer, now show us your not as stupid as you sound.
The whole world waits in breathless anticipation........
Or are you too busy in the support group for children who live vicariously through their relatives past to answer?
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You know Weasel, I have yet to discern if you have a coherent political philosophy other than opposition to anyone in power. You seem to be an angry little man, wandering the vast plains of the internet, following an anti-scientific method, lifting only the information, whether or not it is of questionable origin, which proves your point that all who wield political influence are corrupt.
I have heard advertisements for herbal male enhancement products that may be able help you alleviate your frustrations.
I hope this helps.
Holden
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The draft is nothing than modern slavery.
You're taken under threat of force away from your family to work doing something you don't want to toejame salary.
I you refuse, you're jailed.
Nah, professional army is the way to go. there are more ways of serving ones country than being in the armed forces. The military needs gear, a strong economy etc etc. As long as one is contributing, that is good enough. lret those who wish to be soldiers be that and let the others do their thing.
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Okay I read it, thanks Nash.
In truth I don't have a problem with what he was trying to say.
I believe he was basically saying that there were many groups of people who didn't get drafted.
Whoever was unlucky enough to not fit into those draft catagories had no choice, was ripped from his family, was paid almost nothing, trained breifly and thrown at the enemy, and many died.
I'm not for this.
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The draft is immoral....... in a modern free society equipped with a free media the political situation should speak for itself. Any government that requies forced conscription to save itself politicly either has a serious PR problem or it's just not worth saving to begin with.
This opinion is not to be mis-construed, I think military service for 2-3 years at the end of high school should be manditory for college scholarship eligability, citizenship & voting rights as well as being a required prerequisite for a carreer in politics.
To have some pinhead stuffed toejams that never served the nation in uniform empowered with the ability to decide that his neighbors sons and daughters should bleed for him and his is morally reprehnsible.
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What weazel needs to do is this.... Look at these dark little corners of the internet that he searches and... see if he agrees with more than 10% of what they say on the rest of their bizzare site.... if not... they are probly full of toejam on what he does agree with.... next, see if he can catch the site in more than 4-6 lies per article... if he can... then they are probly lieing about the thing he wants to believe too.
It's hard to be a liberal when honesty is a standard you judge by.
lazs
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Your still slipping lazs, you really must try harder.
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finally figured out who Weazel is in RL, James Carville. ;)
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weazel... if I'm "slipping" then it could be said that you have fallen head over heels down a 6 story flight of stairs and broken every bone in your body.
lazs